If vibrations were the key to being fit ....

I was going to make a crude joke, but my natural sense of good taste has overwhelmed me. Believe me, it was funny, too. No ... really.

duane, be brave - let the woosie side go, speak your mind, you are among friends.

What ever happened to a

1. Good pair of workout shoes
2. Some light weights
3. A good DVD workout
4. A pinch of dedication
5. I sound diet plan
6. Another pinch of dedication
7. A visit to the American Heart Association website.
8. A rededicated appreciation to dedication...
9. A 30 minute walk every day...

10. Abstinance from tobacco products
11. Abstinance from sugar and salt...

Get my drift?

franklin:
too many people in the fitness profession decided that there was no money to be made by professing adherence to the first 9 points - give or take a point or two - of your post, so they decided to lie to the gullible public.

I have a power plate at home and my body is in great shape since I use it 10 min a day!!! but its not easy, it's a real workout!!! after 10 min I'am totally exhausted!

Jenna, Belgium

jenn:
no offense...but that's nonsense.

Sal - I'm currently researching this and have not formed an opinion on it yet. What's interesting to me is that you seem to have formed an opinion without trying the machine or first hand knowledge of it.

dave:
incorrect...i've formed my opinion based on reading the research provided by the power plate people themselves, research that i've read independent of the research provided by power plate and on my almost 20 years of experience as a professional strength coach.

did you even read the entire post?

this is nothing more than a bigger version of the electronic stim pads that were advertised as being able to develop muscles depending on where you connected the pads, especially in the abdominal region.

these devices were discredited years ago, and this device is just a bigger version.

what little supporting data that there is that has come out of the research of WBV has been misused/misinterpreted in marketing materials.

But... Bruce Lee! Nikola Tesla! Lasers and magnets and vibrators, oh my!

I have a chronic pain syndrome which I was told made me ideal to use this type of machine. I used the Vibrogym it is the same thing just different branding. I was given a very high dose of vibration due to an error on the part of the supervisor, after my first few sessions. After this particular session, I could not walk in a straight line and suffered from vertigo and dizzyness. I was checked out by a medic who confirmed that it was probably the machine as I had no other issues. He did say I was susceptible because of my condition, but they are marketing it at people like me. Several months on I still have problems, it has been horrible and scary and I would advise people to keep off these machines.

the bottom line with this gadget is that if people actually read the studies that are provided on the website for this product, they will see that there really isn't any proof for any of the claims that have been made.

Interesting that it's nonsense and yet the top 10 NFL draft picks were trained using the PowerPlate!!! You might want to actually get on one, and take a closer look. It's the real thing...I've used it and can verify it. The research is accurate, though it may sound "too good to be true", and it's definitely not hype.

interesting...too bad the research doesn't back up the claims. rather than just provide us with more nonsense to snicker at, why don't you address this issue? the research is accurate? what does that mean? it certainly doesn't apply to the marketing hype attached to this gimmick.

the top ten nfl draft picks were trained with the power plate? where? did they all workout at the same place? did they stand on if for 10 minutes, one time? did they "workout" using this piece of "equipment" exclusively during their college careers or did they lift weights too?

Maybe the Power Plate box needs pictures of people jogging, lifting weights, doing calisthenics, swimming, etc., and at the bottom of the box, in tiny print, it would say "Part of this complete training program."

Nah.

victor:
do you work for a marketing firm?

No, but I've seen a heck of a lot of TV adverts for breakfast cereals.

.....but why did Madonna bought a powerplate....?

This concept seriously reminds me of those devices in the 50's that stretched a band around a woman and shook her. If vibrating worked, those things probably never would have gone out of style.

I don't have too much of a problem with people attempting to market their devices to the gullible. I do have a problem that people view bodies like those of Madonna and Demi Moore as attainable and the gold standard for physiques. The problem is that you have women whose job it is to work their bodies into shape for their careers and never have to do things like cook, clean, shop, etc. and have a great deal more time to sculpt every muscle.

While I have no problem with them doing this, I do think that society as a whole needs to stop raising the bar on what is considered an attractive physique (for both men and women) and concentrate on health and fitness over the development of a specific look. This plate device is all about having Madonna's ass, not about being fit or healthy.

The increasingly tough standards for being seen as having a good body only serve to demoralize those who try to meet them and fail . Ultimately, it leads to a mentality that can lead to eating disorders of all stripes and lower self-esteem all around. Of course, this is precisely what marketers want because you can't sell your schlock to people who are content with themselves or their lives.

orchid:
great sentiments and you do a nice job of suming up the problem that exists with how fitness and heath is portrayed and sold.

we also aren't being told - when these "beautiful people types" try to sell us their diets or exercise programs - if these people have had any cosmetic surgery that could be responsible for the way that they look. cosmetic surgery is a huge factor that is responsible for how many of these types look.

in the mid to late 80s i worked at a manhattan facility that served high-profile types, many of whom had help from surgeons and accomplished more in the operating room than they could have on the gym floor.

I have worked out on a Power Plate. I have terrible knee problems which limit what I can do. My quad was 25% when I started. It has given me my quad back. My hamstring was extremely tight and was also affecting my knee. It works out the tightness and seems to have accellerated the healing. It has toned my body more than anything else I've been physically able to do. My arms, my abs, legs... sorry. You can "dis" the power plate but it works for me. Proof is in the actual using of it! I am guessing you are one of those guys who doesn't think anything is a good idea unless it is your idea. For us folks that can't do a lot of the other stuff out there, it's awesome.

the power plate people have a great viral marketing plan to try and negate the negative reviews with regards to this gimmick.

actually, i'm the kind of guy who reads research, talks to experts in the field and calls on my 20 years of experience when i form my opinions and make judgements.

i've worked with people of all ages who have had less than 25% quad strength due to severe injuries and have been able to have the "get their quad back." and i've worked with physical therapists who have done the same.

again, try and read the research and then defend the use of this gadget...anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Occupational vibrations do not compare with whole body vibration therapy. When you tone up using a weight here is what is really going on... From a physics point of view, you are adding load to something that is being forgotton about...gravity. We pull away from gravity everyday, this is.. among other things.. what ages us..(astronauts in space-muscle loss..because of zero gravity). Adding load on top of gravity makes your muscles respond more aptly. Whole body vibration therapy uses gravity in a different way. It uses vertical acceleration of gravity, which creates a faster compensation response. Gravity and how gravity is really at the essence of all exercise.Also, this is vertical acceleration, which is stimulus absorbed by your muscles (hence the reflexive training)not horizontal jarring vibrations that are only absorbed by your joints such as when using a jack-hammer. One doesn't use wbv platform for more than 6 hours a day. There needs to be differentiation between the opinions and scientific facts. There are over 50 -100 clinical studies done on wbv therapy that are in the medical journals..not so easily accessible to the general public and you really need to know how to read medical studies and abstracts otherwise you can misinterpret the information quite easily. Read about the Hypergravity and why it is the best.I hope trainers who are out there try this stuff before they even post something and I hope they can understand how important physics and science is in relation to understanding the body.

in addition to medical studies, there have been many performance based studies that have been published in the journals of the national strength and conditioning association and the american college of sports medicine. and these are not abstracts, but studies.

these studies have not yielded results that support the calims made by the marketers/manufacturers of the power plate.

additionally, this was written:
"From a physics point of view, you are adding load to something that is being forgotton about...gravity. We pull away from gravity everyday, this is.. among other things.. what ages us..(astronauts in space-muscle loss..because of zero gravity). Adding load on top of gravity makes your muscles respond more aptly. Whole body vibration therapy uses gravity in a different way. It uses vertical acceleration of gravity, which creates a faster compensation response. Gravity and how gravity is really at the essence of all exercise."

What???

Because of the way you are controlling the blog- I had to delete half of my information on my post. It is ridiculous that the posts are being restricted at all. Anyway- what I was talking about is physics. With weight training you are manipulating gravity by Load. Whole Body Vibration platforms such as the Hypergravity or Power Plate manipulates gravity by Acceleration. Acceleration is independent of Load. Yes, once again- it's all about physics
Conventional training= Fz = m x g
WBV training= Fz = m x a
(g = acceleration of gravity standard 10m/s2)
If anyone had the slightest knowledge of science-they would have grasped what I was previously saying. Good luck with that.

Also- what studies are you actually reading? My father in law has his Ph.D. and has collected several recent studies from the last two years about metabolic increase, Parkinsons, Multiple Sclerosis, the elderly and how true whole body vibration therapy is providing all kinds of wonderful benefits. Those are some of the more recent ones. I guess I find it baffling when people are chosing ignorance over science. I guess people see what they what to see. Every major scientific paradigm shift has always been met with disdain and violent opposition. Something to think about.

if your thoughts were expressed clearly we could follow them and perhaps make heads or tails out of them.

whatever control that exists on this site with regard to comments had no effect on the passage i highlighted in the above.

your knowledge of science may be impressive, however that knowledge - as you've attempted to express it - has nothing to do with training and conditioning healthy individuals. there are all kinds of therapies that are employed in the aid and rehabilitation of people who are diminished due to disease and injury, but this doesn't mean that they have a valid application with regard to healthy members of the population.

if you had read the piece that you are commenting on, and had visited the power plate site to see what research that they provide in the attempt to support their claims, you wouldn't have to ask me to which studies i am refering. and with your vast knowledge you would surely see that the claims made by the power plate people are not supported by this research. or maybe your father in law could explain it to you.

Sal. You need to try out the Power Plate before blasting it the way you do. I have worked out on the Power Plate for almost 2 years, I have dropped 48 lbs, and 50% of my body fat. I have better flexibility and range of motion and muscle definition than when I was a teenager. I have herniated discs that caused intense pain in my lower back and down my right leg before Power Plate, and now the pain is gone completely. You are overanalyzing the research, and not using the machine. Use it for one month, and then you can give an educated opinion.

marc:
no offense, but nonsense is nonsense.

i am not overanalyzing the research but reading the studies and comparing the results of these studies to the claims made by the power plate people.

your testimonial is meaningless anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded in the same light as any alleged success stories that accompany the advertisments for every unproven and untested health and fitness panacea that has ever hit the scene.

What do you think of the Wave machine sal?

the wave machine is just another farce.

the "reporter" who was included in the video on the wave machine site should be embarrassed.

some people are shameless and will do - and say - anything to make a buck.

I had to actually shake my head at his one

"your knowledge of science may be impressive, however that knowledge - as you've attempted to express it - has nothing to do with training and conditioning healthy individuals."

Sal, I not sure if you are grasping what I am saying. You are actually questioning the effectiveness of whole body vibration exercise. I had to explain about gravity because you are seeming not to understand that gravity has everything to do with exercise and muscle conditioning. This is in fact why healthy astronuats lost bone density and muscle mass in space at alarming rates. Gravity has everything to do with exercise and if you truly understood this, then you would be able to accept whole body vibration exercise. This is not opinion here, but scientific facts. I actually have read almost every available study done on wbv and healthy individuals and I am sorry to say, your wrong on this one. The claims made by Power Plate or Hypergravity have been absolutely verified by years of research. Maybe it is hard to comprehend but ANY time you work your muscles, regardless of what stimulus you are using, you are going to benefit from all of the effects of it. This is going to be increases in good hormones, metabolism, lower blood pressure, etc. And by the way, Sal, you NEVER can dismiss anecdotal evidence. You would be wiping out 2,000 years of data if you did. I think you should try the machine for two weeks and then give your opinion, otherwise I am sorry to say you are simply not qualified to be asked or to give an opinion about this kind of exercise.

Oh, I forget to mention something. My inital comments were directed toward the absurd comments you made about whole body vibrations and how if in fact it truly worked, then people riding the subway or using a jack hammer would be in shape. These comments speak for themselves and they are screaming "uneducated"! In a subway you would be accelerating through space horizontally. While using a jack hammer you would be introducing 20 HZ vibrations horizontally through your arm. This is not whole body vibration exercise.
P.S. If anyone is truly interested in learning about whole body vibration exercise, I suggest going to www.wholebodyvibes.com where they make the Hypergravity, the best platform made in the USA.

once again you throw out jargon and technical nonsense and avoid dealing with the fact that the studies that power plate uses to support their claims on their site do not support their claims. all we get is a link to a site for another useless piece of equipment.

it was posted:
"And by the way, Sal, you NEVER can dismiss anecdotal evidence."
yes you can, when you are dealing with scientific evidence that is contrary to the anecdotal evidence. you can also discount anecdotal evidence when it accompanies gimmicks, gadgets, fads and useless dietary supplements.

anecdotal evidence can be dismissed in the case of the unsubstantiated claims made for the power plate and whole body vibration training.

sal, I think that the only one trying to get attention is you, on PowerPlate's account.
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE !!! is this what you want? Then check the numbreous studies performed by NASA, and feel free to ask them directly about their veridicity, stating your "20 years of experience" on that claim. NASA uses POWER PLATE since 2003, because it represents the PREMIUM machine of the WBV technology, the only viable technology for 0 gravity, that also copmresses the valuable time of the scientists.

And NO, it is not a panaceum as you said, but an alternative and/or a complementary way of training:
- use only the Power Plate and it will have effects;
- use it in combination with cardio or isokinetic and it will work;
- use it for determined goals integrated in the specific training for different sports and it will also work;
- but for you just a simple test (use it correctly with isometic and then check your Fmax - I also state my 20 years of experience on it !!!)

Go Gabby :)
Exactly right Sal. Maybe a few of the studies Power Plate puts up are not the best examples, but you must understand there are hundreds more that are excellent examples.
Sorry Sal, I think all of your arguments have been intelligently confuted. There really is nothing to discuss here anymore except how you should stop giving invalid opinions BEFORE you
a) learn about & understand the science behind it
b) even try a Power Plate or Hypergravity
Also, I am sorry to say but there is NOT ONE celebrity endorsement from any of the companies that sell wbv platforms. So your marketing argument is again, invalid. These companies are simply listing there clients, and they happen to be the elite of society such as celebrities, doctors, universities, NASA, etc.

i'm glad the two WBV proponents understand each other. apparently circuitous logic and lack of evidence are common traits to those who believe in the fantasy of WBV.

with all of this talk about all of these studies that "prove" that WBV works, there has been not one reference to an actual, complete study to support your point of view. the manufacturers of these products can't provide better supporting data and neither can the two WBV'ers.

to say that a vibrating platform works in conjunction with traditional exercise is a joke. that's like all of the scam dietary supplement marketers who say that their pill will help people lose weight as long as they diet and exercise.

keep it coming though, you are quite entertaining.

Sal, [Personal attack deleted]

You come into contact with people and start a "debate" in which you want to have the last word, [Personal attack deleted].

The reality is that the world will evolve and you can't do nothing against that, and YES the WBV is part of the evolutionary process. The freedom of speech is also part of that evolution. This is how any nut can get his 15 minutes of fame and a month's load of serotonine in an amusing yet ignorable way. Tell us Sal, how did you determined that the WBV is not working??? Can it be that it was your lack of real scientifical experience [Personal attack deleted].

[Personal attack deleted]
That makes your claims invalid and my time to precious to spend on your amateur blog.

I will continue to use the Power PLate in my trainings and we'll meet at the 2008 olympics, to see if I was right !!!

gabby:
there is a no personal attacks policy here at blogcritics.

however, i do not adhere to this policy in the monitoring of the comments on my items precisely because of people like you, who when faced with facts that they cannot refute, resort to calling names.

you have had ample time to provide links to studies that support the point of view that wbv training actually provides benefits. you cannot do so, so you launch a personal attack.

actually this approach is fitting and representative of someone who ignores reality and is a proponent of wbv training.

it's also easy for anonymous randoms to post nonsense without having to backup anything that they say.

your comments can be viewed in this light. and i'm sure we'll see you in the olympics in 2008.

Sal, you need to quit your job NOW! It is quite alarming how someone with no concept of how the body works can be offering fitness advice to anyone.Let me explain something important in real easy to understand language so you don't get confused. Using weights, or using resistance bands are only the STIMULUS. They are not what makes the muscles grow bigger or stronger or more toned. Our own body and its amazing adaptablility and compensation responses are the actual key, along with gravity. Since we are in a constant state of pull because of gravity, you can add LOAD to the body and it responds and adapts OR you can become very clever and instead of LOAD you can use ACCELERATION - which your body adapts and adjusts to quite rapidily. It is the same with health.A pill is never the answer to combating a problem - but our own body already has something that will cure us- our own immune system - and it is whether you are stimulating it or suppressing it that is the actual answer. WBV exercise is just a smarter stimulus applied to your body. Your body compensates to the rapid imbalance by trying to create balance. During the WBV exercise your body is only responding the to muscle reflex that is occuring at speeds of 40-60 per second!And if you are actually questioning this, I dare you to stand on the Hypergravity machine and tell me you feel anything different!This whole blog isn't about whether WBV exercise is better, smarter, or faster exercise but it seems to be about your lack of understanding basic scientific and physiological facts.

The importance of LOAD is well understood by pseudoscience gadget marketers. Knowing what their material is a LOAD of is the key to avoiding being swindled.

P.S. Studies you might find interesting.
1. Bonner Physical Therapy Metabolic Study 2003
(10 min. WBV exercise 3x week ttl 6 wks = 18% increase in resting metabolism)
2. Oki & Matoba 1997 - Kurume Medical Journal 1989
(WBV 30-60HZ for 12 weeks = suppressed the development of atherosclerosis and in lipid metabolism)
3. Dr. Olivier Bruyere Elderly Study 2003
(WBV exercise for 10 mins 3x week for 6 weeks =143% increase in physical function, 77% increase in equilibrium, 57% increase in quality of walking, 60% increase in vitality, 41% improvement from pain)
4. Bosco 1999 Study
(WBV exercise increased average velocity, average force and power in fit subjects)
5. 2001 Blackwell Science - Clinical Physiology
(WBV exercise leads to significant alterations in muscle blood volume)
6. J. Rittweger Oct 2001 Springer-Verlag 2001
(WVB exercise led to increased metabolic power due to muscular activity and led to increased oxygen uptake)
7. Christopher Delecluse, Machteld Roelants, Sabine Verschueren 2003 - Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise
(WBV exercise for 3x ttl 12 wks = "The results clearly indicate that strength, and isometric and isokinetic strength, SIGNIFICANTLY improved after WBV training" strength increased more than the resistance trainging group and ONLY in the WVB group did explosive strength increase)
8. 2005 Lee & Dankos Study on Fibromyalgia Patients
(WVB exercise 2x per 8 weeks = wbv exercise showed significant improvements with pain management, vitality, and decreased anxiousness and depression. The group also showed higher levels of improvement of physical activites)
9. JD Bastian, W Franz Lutrina Klinik, Department of Knee Surgery Germany
( WBV exercise 10 mins 2x per 10 weeks on ACL ruptured patients post operation = WBV led to accelerated increase of muscle thickness, recovery of coordinative abilities and improvement of muscular flexibility = overall increase in recovery of ACL rupture)
10. O Schuhfried,C Mittermaier, T Jovanovic, K Pieber, T Paternostro-Sluga 2005 Clinical Rehabilitation
(WBV positively influenced postural control and mobility in Multiple Sclerosis patients)
11. 2005 M Cardinale, J Wakeling - Br J Sports Med 2005
(" WBV exercise has been shown to cause clear metabolic responses similar to other forms of exercise")
12. Nazarov V, Moscow 1985
(Development of athletes strength abilities by means of biomechanical stimulation method)

Victor - we can discuss all day how people invent gadgets to sell and take advantage of others. But that is not the point of the blog. Whole Body Vibration exercise is no gadget. The science is solid and so are the effects. Now you are dead right about one thing - accept nothing but the best wbv platform out there. How do you decide which is the best?
Simple...KNOW THIS-
1. that all studies were done on an ALL STEEL platforms - any other material is inferior
2. all studies used vertical acceleration of 2-5mm between 20-60Hz - any other method has not been verified (such as sound waves)
3. there are only 2 companies I know of that have stayed with these rules - the ORIGINAL power plate which is now VIBROGYM (www.vibrogym.nl) made in the Netherlands @ 10-14K,
and the HYPERGRAVITY made in the USA @ $3500 (www.wholebodyvibes.com)

very interesting. what is the remarkable is the lack of details included in these "studies."

taking the bonner "study" as an example of this "proof," here is exactly what it says under the heading of Metabolic Study Shows Promise.

"In an attempt to either disprove or lend credence to the claim 'using vibration training can give you as good a workout in 10 minutes as an hour and a half at the gym'
Bonner Physical Therapy have (sic) recently completed a six-week study.
Test subjects were divided into two groups and each went through the same exercise routine with the primary difference being one group incorporated a 10-minute vibration training three times a week in their routine and a similar group did the same routine with out (sic) the vibration.
The difference which really jumped out in the out comes was the vibration group experienced an 18% in resting metabolism while the control group showed a 2% decline"

This isn't proof, nor is it a study, as it is a joke. There are no details as to how many subjects were included in this "study," what the training/health status of these individuals were or any other pertinent data.

as a matter of fact, this "study" indicates that there are actually negative metabolic effects in training programs that DO NOT include WBV training. This is clearly at odds with every reliable and legit study ever done on exercise and metabolism.

the elderly study, number 3 on this list, is a study that looked at the results of 42 sedentary seniors who lived in an assisted living facility.

using sedentary and infirm senior citizens is a great way to produce off-the-charts results when studying any kind of exercise and this trick is right out of the health and fitness gadgeteers handbook. people who do nothing and have done nothing for their entire life are going to improve balance, gait, etc when anything involving standing up and moving is involved.

this may constitute proof to you as an anonymous internet shill for the WBV industry, but stop wasting our time with this claptrap.

victor:
you have it right as what passes for "science" in the WBV game is different that what it means in the real world.

any study that shows a 2% decrease in metabolic rate as a result of exercise should be thrown in the garbage and not used as proof of anything, other than what constitutes a poorly designed study.

Any study that has ever been conducted on anything cannot possibly have all of the optimal components included. That's riduculous and not mirroring real daily life. You guys are going to see what you want to see. What about the study about Resistance Training and how WBV was significantly better? You must realize some studies are not going to be as in depth as others- that's common sense. The bottom line is this is like conversing with someone about a book that they have never even read! You need the actual experience to even have an opinion about this. You guys still are NOT able to dispute the science or physiological responses that occur while engaged in wbv training. Hey- I have an idea..why don't you guys go to the Johnson Training Center (NASA) and give them your astute opinions!Enough said!

Yeah, I guess since I don't have $14,000 sitting around with nothing better to do, I'll never be truly qualified to comment about the scientific validity of studies that supposedly prove the vigorous value and virtue of the vibrodoohickey.

Right. Uh huh.

where do you live Victor?I bet I can help you find one you can try out so then we can have some real dialogue!

By the way, has any of you out there read Sal's other blogs? Go see what I mean an I rest my case!

If you read Sal's other work you'll be in awe of the quality research he does, so I wholeheartedly agree with you there.

I concur with Suss. Sal definitely does his homework before he writes or appears on the BCRadio podcast.

d leigha from the comfort of anonymity that the internet provides has offered no proof to support his position, as a shill for the WBV industry, that WBV training can offer any benefits whatsoever.

he has repeatedly brought up the subject of the research that NASA has done on WBV training without providing any further information.

as a matter of fact, if you do a search for "WBV" and "nasa" you will find dozens of hits that are result of these WBV platform shamsters touting this NASA study without providing any details of this study.

even though NASA may be using WBV to attempt to oounteract the affects of weightlessness on astronauts returning from space, NASA has just begun to study if in fact WBV actually does anything. and for anyone to make the assertion or assumption that WBV has any relevance to members of the healthy population is to ignore the data.

i will gladly let d leigha have the last word on this since every word of his from the first has been meaningless, and at every turn his attempt to offer proof for WBV as a valid exercise modality has done nothing but further my point that WBV is a sham.

First of all, I, D Leigha, am a female. Second, I offered you 12 of the hundreds of studies and you only had comments about 2 of them. So now they are all invalid somehow? I don't think so. Also, just because you type in wbv into google and they all do not show up, that doesn't mean they are not there. The bottom line is this - is there ONE SINGLE person in ANY of these studies that did NOT have a positive response to WBV exercise? The answer is NO and in fact they had NO negative ones either!ALL of them had positive responses and that, quite frankly, can NOT be refuted.
Lastly, you still have not been able to refute any of my counter-comments that I posted about your "supposed" points -
a)wbv exercise is NOT comparable to occupational vibrations as you had stated
b)gravity and Load OR Acceleration are the keys to body/muscle conditioning as you seem to not understand
c)not one wbv company uses celebrities endorsements as you stated
d)anecdotal evidence is never "worthless" as you stated or quite frankly you would be wiping out over 2,000 years of history
e)studies I provided have still not been refuted (opinions on 2 hardly suffice for dismissal of all)
f) your comments about my "meaningless"and "circuitous logic" are also INVALID because quite frankly, I have presented my ideas in an intelligent, cogent, and logical manner and have provided support for all of my ideas, which I can not say the same for you.
Goodbye

D Leigha : just a thought !!!

All steel platforms could not be the best as they have a natural elasticity (no matter the steel alloy you use) which in high vibration condition could damage the apparatus or transmit the vibration erratically.

As you said it's about acceleration and I can give you the best example : Formula 1 !!! those cars accelerate like hell, and they have not one part made of steel , but carbon fiber, aluminium and high quality plastic.

The trend-setter and market leader in WBV is the """POWER PLATE""", that also started this "blog", just because Madonna got one, and not by chance, but just because it is the best.

And another thing, vibrations of around 20 Hz could cause resonance in some tissues, this is why Power Plate uses 30-50 Hz. Also 50 and 60 Hz could not be objectively used for muscle strengthening, but rather for massage or stretching.

Other than that is good that the market expands and as I see you got your favourite, maybe we could stop "bothering" sal's blog and start our own, for people that want to find out about WBV, not necesarelly to adopt it ?

Artur -That is why I was signing off There is nothing further to discuss with Sal as far as I'm concerned.
Now your comments about acceleration and steel. Quite frankly they are showing me you're not understanding a HUGE component.Formula 1 is accelerating you through space HORIZONTALLY. While WBV exercise is using VERTICAL acceleration to actually move your OWN body vertically. To actually move your own body in a vertical manner, physics dictate that you need enough mass to do so, which is why all STEEL is the ONLY kind of material you would ever want to use to accomplish that since any other kind of material is a poor conductor of vibration (sorry that's simple physics).
This blog was about whole body vibrations and if it was a scam and I have been refuting those allegations and also mentioned my opinion about the BEST platform and the ONLY on made in the USA, which is Hypergravity.
Let the people try them on their own and decide! Happy Vibrations!

Just came across this, seems pretty solid to me. Study conducted on 28 male athletes w/ a control group, results show nearly 50% increase in isotonic maximal strength with a very high degree of correlation (P < 0.001), etc. Published in the Journal of Sports Science... Here's the abstract from PubMed/MedLine:

Effect of vibratory stimulation training on maximal force and flexibility.

Journal of Sports Science 1994 Dec;12(6):561-6.

Issurin VB, Liebermann DG, Tenenbaum G.

Ribstein Centre for Research and Sport Medicine Sciences, Wingate Institute, Wingate Post, Israel.

In this study, we investigated a new method of training for maximal strength and flexibility, which included exertion with superimposed vibration (vibratory stimulation, VS) on target muscles. Twenty-eight male athletes were divided into three groups, and trained three times a week for 3 weeks in one of the following conditions: (A) conventional exercises for strength of the arms and VS stretching exercises for the legs; (B) VS strength exercises for the arms and conventional stretching exercises for the legs; (C) irrelevant training (control group). The vibration was applied at 44 Hz while its amplitude was 3 mm. The effect of training was evaluated by means of isotonic maximal force, heel-to-heel length in the two-leg split across, and flex-and-reach test for body flexion. The VS strength training yielded an average increase in isotonic maximal strength of 49.8%, compared with an average gain of 16% with conventional training, while no gain was observed for the control group. The VS flexibility training resulted in an average gain in the legs split of 14.5 cm compared with 4.1 cm for the conventional training and 2 cm for the control groups, respectively. The ANOVA revealed significant pre-post training effects and an interaction between pre-post training and 'treatment' effects (P < 0.001) for the isotonic maximal force and both flexibility tests. It was concluded that superimposed vibrations applied for short periods allow for increased gains in maximal strength and flexibility.
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The more studies I read, the more I'm convinced this is legit. To be fair, Sal is right that the first study quoted by D Leigha is short on methodologies, but many of the other 11 studies checked out. You can look them up on MedLine.

D Leigha : this is a more interesting debate, so I will continue :)

Formula 1 was made example just to show the materials they use, not to say something about horizontal or vertical acceleration. If you want an exemple of vertical acceleration, then it could only be the space ship...how much steel do they have ?... almost as much as an F1 car.

Your comment "...to actually move your own body in a vertical manner, physics dictate that you need enough mass to do so...", would make Einstein twist in his grave. It's ENERGY you need to accelerate, MASS is the only thing you don't need, as it decreases the acceleration, and this is why you need a light weight STIFF material.

Steel is heavy, hard but NOT STIFF, as it has high a natural elasticity (no matter the alloy), and could only conduct vibrations erratically, making them uncontrolable (Sorry, but this is simple engineering!:)

POWER PLATE uses not just any plastic, but fiber reinforced, which is stiffer and more expensive than steel !!!, just because it is better for vibration transmission.

POWER PLATE it's actually the trend setter for WBV, and the market leader as YOU state on the hypergravity site...

the other studies that are provided as "proof" by WBV manufactures are prime examples of the marketing ploy tactic where studies that were designed to produce a particular result take a wee bit of positive info that is applicable to a wee slice of a specific population and then extrapolate this data in order to make outlandish claims that are aimed at members of the entire population.

studying the elderly and infirm is a great example of this.

none of the studies from medline provide any kind of data that can allow anyone to say that WBV training is better than conventional training. these studies don't even provide cover for those who want to claim that WBV is even as good as conventional training.

wait until you read the review of the "proof" that the Hypergravity platform maker uses on their site.

Artur- I am sorry you have no idea what you are talking about. I was trying to comment about your mention of Formula 1.

Are you serious? You are trying to compare whole body vibration therapy with a Formula 1 racing car? Why would you want vibrations coming from a racing car? Steel does not make you go fasterand quite frankly I will not comment anymore about that becasue it's nonsense. What I am talking about is mass and yes, energy (that is what is called a "given")with moving your OWN body vertically. Now- what material transfers those vibrations from a motor up to move your body? Steel. Sorry. but anything else ABSORBS the vibrations.

There is no way around this one. In fact that is why LLOYD SHAW who USED to be a Power Plate General Manager LEFT the company. Because after ORIGINAL Power Plate SPLIT UP and became 2 companies- 1 - VibraGym and the other Power Plate, Vibra Gym kept the ALL STEEL platform but is $14000 and Power Plate CHANGED and cheapened the materials they used to fiberglass and to be imported from China!

So-this means The ORIGINAL Power Plate is only VIBRAGYM. Sorry but Hypergravity came in and stuck with ALL STEEL and is ALL AMERICAN MADE. There just is no comparison anymore. The Hypergravity small one ($3500) is better than Power Plates Professional one ($9000)! LLOYD SHAW, who is an EXPERT felt like PP was misleading people at their expense, by changing the product but still trying to use the claims, then by cheapening the product and then overcharging.

Go to LLYODs forum on the site below if you are interested in learning more about Whole Body Vibration Exercise that really works!

D leigha: what is your area of expertise ? marketing ???

You came here in an advertorial ofensive, bombarding us with numbreous links to commercial sites.

The disscusion was ment for SPECIALISTS and the general public (using or not the WBV), it's not a commercial enterprise, so please, enough with the pompous exclamations of the marketing world.

And PLEASE < STOP associating all the second-hand brands with POWER PLATE.

Steel is ELASTIC, meaning NOT STIFF, absorbing the energy more than the fiber reinforced platic, and giving MORE mass to the device requiering more ENERGY to move it. I never said either steel or plastic makes you go faster (are you serious?) I just said it adds unnecesary weight, and forces the motors to work harder, and also INCREASE THE ENERGY CONSUMPTION. Why??? just to use american alloys :)

you said it needs more mass to accelerate, and I reacted saying you make physics ashamed....

STOP TWISTING MY WORDS !
I never associated F1 and WBV, I was just making a point to show you the materials they use are strong, just like the ones POWER PLATE uses...

(by the way vibrations are part of the racing driver's job as the car is so stiff - hmm, wonder why? - it can't dampen the shocks)

you talk about THE ORIGINAL plate, but you know all that came after POWER PLATE are only its copies....that's why you are unsuccessfully comparing them to it. Why are you so eager to attack the POWER PLATE concept? It will not increase your sales, because the public will eventually see through the 50's like "ALL STEEL, ALL AMERICAN" marketing bluff.

I completely agree with competition, and I wish you luck in your exploits, but your agresiveness reveales the lack of real subtance, effectiveness and character of those products.

Sal, for a fellow who is in search of truth, you seem to be pretty selective in which studies you choose to dwell on.

You said, "studying the elderly and infirm is a great example of this."

Let's assume for argument's sake that every study conducted on the elderly can be thrown out as it relates to fit individuals. That still doesn't address the Issurin, et. al. study which was conducted on 28 male athletes.

You said, "none of the studies from medline provide any kind of data that can allow anyone to say that WBV training is better than conventional training".

On the contrary I got the Issurin, et. al. study directly from Medline and it stated:

"The VS strength training yielded an average increase in isotonic maximal strength of 49.8%, compared with an average gain of 16% with conventional training, while no gain was observed for the control group."

Clearly, there is some advantage if the research shows this kind of improvement after just three weeks.

This study was published in the Journal of Sports Science, a very reputable journal that puts its credibility on the line every time they publish new findings. I've had fellow colleagues who were published in the Journal of Sports Science and I can guarantee you they have very stringent requirements of objectivity and high standards for research design.

So here's my question to you: Would you choose to simply dimiss this study outright?

I think your answer will shed much light into whether you are, in fact, a man of science or, as you call yourself, nothing more than a "healthy skeptic".

Artur- whose the one misleading the public? You are. First off I have my degree in Art History, I just happen to be quite knowledgable about anti-aging, health and fitness. Secondly, I have never given links except in my last Post and that was to offer people options to go check for themselves. This blog is about the veracity of whole body vibration exercise. I have provided excellent support for my ideas. Now, as far as Power Plate is concerned when researching for one myself, I spoke with countless people about how their machine had broke down and they couldn't get it fixed and the more I researched I found out the truth.People can see my previous Posts about it. Anyway- I recommend anyone looking for the best plate to contact Llyod Shaw, who offers the best advice because he is one of the original designers of whole body vibration platforms and he is an expert in this stuff. The public should know the truth instead of being told which company came first or last..that doesn't matter at all since it is about quality. Also, what matters is that the public should be informed of all of the facts before making an decision. I am a consumer advocate and have been for years!
I rest my case, and this is my final Post :)

Hello my name is Lloyd Shaw and was Power-Plates product manager. I left the company due its total lack of ethics and its irresponsable use of others scientific research. I tried my best to control this behaivour while i was there , but i was up against the "marketers'. I was never going to win.

You are talking about stolen reports , stolen awards , made up celebrity endorsments and specs "borrowed 'from other machines.

They tried to injunct me when i left. And lost.

I am now in the process of dismantling their company. In my country everyone knows the truth , and wont touch them.

And they are just one in a handfull ( aprox 50 worlwide ) of companies doing the same thing. So be carefull.

Now to the RESEARCH

There is some valid reseach out there about WBV but not alot. They have missed major parts of the bio-machanics involved , still working on a 3 or 4 part physics eqsn rather than the 9 parts its meant to be.
Instead of thinking ( which marketers are not famous for ), they just adjust the Hz or Amplitude to dangerous settings trying to find something that " Kinda" works.

This blog is interesting , if not a little closed minded in places , but at least makes people question everything they are told. You are all right to do so.

And for historys sake, Vibration Thereapy was originaly written about by MD Arnold Snow , and used in 1912. And was latter used by Dr Harvey Kellogg.

Then came the russian models and NASAs TVIS system.

Everything after that is a copy of a copy . So quit with the feather fluffing.

LLOYD: we are a little confused about your appearance here, presented like a "GURU" by D Leigha... are you an aociate of hers, or just it's more nowledgeable RELAY ?

your comment:"I am now in the process of dismantling their company. In my country everyone knows the truth , and wont touch them.
And they are just one in a handfull ( aprox 50 worlwide ) of companies doing the same thing. So be carefull."it's a really "GURU" like affirmation...of course everybody else is wrong, that's what we call PARANOIA.

You talk about dangerous hertz, then take a look at D Leigha's hypergravity that deliveres 20 Hz, what about that ?

I saw the specs of your machine and they look a "little incomplete", but this is where it stops as I'm not in the mood for another "debate", like I had with D Leigha.

D Leigha: so now the mistery dissipates...of course it's just random knowledge you have about the WBV, then why start a debate on that?...it's just like I wrote you "... your agresiveness reveales the lack of real subtance, effectiveness and character of those products..."
You have no clue about materials or engineering, no profesional experience in training or the human body and you were telling me about "simple physics", and "provided excellent arguments"...CHECK PLEASE!

One question though: If you really are an art expert, then I'm sure you appreciated the splendid design of the POWER PLATE NEXT GENERATION...

I WAS WRONG TO DEBATE HERE. IT IS FULL WITH AMATEURS, BUT I CAN LIVE WITH THAT...SO I WILL STOP NOW AS I'M TIRED AND DISGUSTED BY THE LEVEL OF "EXPERTISE" TO WHICH I'M SUBJECTED.
VIBE AWAY, FAR AWAY!

Power-Plates design was amended for economic reasons , not for any other. Fibra-Glass is much cheaper than steel. They where caught red handed making copies of the originals in China with no consent from Marcel Tamminga. By Kevin Barclay-Webb who understood the implications of this action if caught by the F.D.A. And had to produce something cheap anf fast.

And everybody with any ethics pulled out. Power-Plate went back to China,.
I had designed opposing magnets systems , amp coil plates and off-set counter weight units. But chose to do the research myself after trust had become quite an issue.

And no its unsafe to drop below 38hz unless part of a limited time physio program. As for my units ( 5 ), once you fully understsand bio-machinics , you can fully change the muscles reaction within 2hz. Extremes are for people who are just guessing.


And as for the GURU comment , you have proved it wise to maybe still be paranoid if people still understand Power-Plates behaviour , but endorse it.
After all , who would stop it , you ?

D Leigha -- In an earlier post, you said your father (I think it was) has collected research supporting the use of the vibrating machine. I'm considering signing up with a place that offers time on these machines, about would like to read UNBIASED scientific evaluations. Would you be willing to provide specifics of 2 or 3 or 4 of the journal articles your father found about these machines? If possible, articles that can be read on the Internet without purchasing a membership in sites I'll never have a reason to go back to again.
Thanks.

Incidentally, I'm amused to see on this site an ad for a book called "The Art of Deception" ... which is also the title of a book of mine, co-authored with America's most infamous computer hacker, Kevin Mitnick.

sal,

You are clinging to the research no matter what people are telling you about their experience with the Powerplate. Are you really saying that NO ONE can benefit from using the Powerplate at all? Not ONE person, not even a little bit? I'm sure we should trust the research, but as we all know, people are different, both mentally and physically. So what may not work for me and you, might work for somebody else. Can you agree with that, at least?

Everybody can benefit fron Vibration Therapy/Training . I think the confusion comes in when unethical marketers , decide to enlarge their target demographic by " tweeking " the specs on a model.
This causes a chain reaction in the confidence of the public that is not positive. With this being such a new industry is very sensitive to.

And as a result the people who need it most ( M.S. , MD , MND ,Parkinsons and the clinically obese etc...) never get pointed to the right unit.
So if your concern for others health is genuine, you would NEVER condone Power-Plate doing just that.

Lloyd...
You seem to be very well versed on the subject. It's tough because it's hard to get information regarding this field. I've performed static squats on an unmentioned vibration device and expierienced some knee pain now and again. Are you saying it is not advised to perform such positions below a 38 hz level??? Please tell me....I've tried to get on your messageboard(vibratrain) but it's been weeks and still have not recieved a confirmation. Also is your site still active? Please inform regarding the 38 hz issue Thanks.

No the 38hz and below is more of an issue with long term contact and the lumbar.

My first guesse is you may be over extending on the squat. Try this.
Make sure your feet are flat on the plate , hip width apart , perfectly straight, look down to make sure your knees are just back from your toes ( from straight up and down ) . Then put a little more pressure through your heels than your toes while the machine is going.
And keep re-checking your position.
Even if you have a problem with your knees , this should fix it , as it allows stimulation to the concerned area , with no tissue breakdown. But enough signals for cellular repair.

Sorry my forum is on hold at moment.

this discussion reminds me of the episode of the Simpsons where Homer puts his fingers in his ears and sings 'la, la, la' to avoid hearing the other character's argument. All i can add (although i am not sure that you will listen!) is that since using the vibro platform my ass has become pert and lovely, and my legs all shapely. However i do find the platform makes me guff (wind/fart) anyone know why?;)

I am only back because of Bill Simon's post and question for me. The studies my father-in-law provided for me were all recent-
1. Jan 2006- Effects of vibration and resistance training on neuromuscular and hormonal measures
2. April 2005- Whole body vibration exercise: are vibrations good for you?
3. April 2005 - Effects of wbv in patients with Multiple Sclerosis: a pilot study
4. 2006 The effects of random wbv on motor symptoms on Parkinson's disease
5. 2004 Short-term effects of whole-body vibration on postural control in unilateral chronic stroke patients: preliminary evidence
There were some more but for some reason he couldn't get them mailed to him. I am mailing them to wholebodyvibes.com so they can post them. Hope this helps.
P.S. Artur is a complete ignoramus! he is confusing SPEED with Acceleration - cars and shuttles have nothing to do with a vibrating platform that has to move you vertically- that can only be done correctly with steel.Artur's comments speak for themselves and show how truly sophomoric he is.

PPS:) D Leigha your comments speak for themselves...."making physiscs ashamed...", as I already said.

I only spoke about acceleration, not speed, and I was correct on every little detail. Speed it's a completely different subject that I could speak hours about, but ... not with you, as I'm sure you will tell me I need "more mass to get more speed"....:)

Steel it's a really nice material, but kinda oldfashioned and low on efficiency. It takes some courage to admit it but in the end technology revolution will provoque it...

I guess it must be really frustrating to have no real arguements and no QUALIFICATION to speak about this things, determining this melodramatic act, and howl for attention.

Sal. or anyone qualified, please explain D Leigha why is she wrong, beacuse I'm tired of this.


D, if you want we could debate about art, if that is your area of expertise, because it seems I attract you. Must be my magnetic vibe :)

Artur , have you yourself ever designed , used , tested and successfully launch a machine onto the market ? Or is your arguement only symantic.

I have 5 now.

I was Power-Plates product manager when we changed fron stainless steel to plastic. I had tests done on the Next Generation and the "hull" absorbed 12hz . Dropping from 50hz to 38hz UNLOADED .
When Power-Plate had them retested , they came up 3gs short on its highest settings.

That is how i discovered the specs did not belong to that unit. But someone elses.

The numerous problems with such machines is i have 2 Power-Plate studios looking to purchase a license from me , so they can replace theres.

These people are not new to the industry. And recently disliked my stand against Power-Plate.

Please explain ?

This conversation reminds me of the many religious debates I've seen online over the years. The believers are absolutely sure their position has been proven beyond all doubt. Therefore, they think the only possible reason for skepticism is some form of dishonesty or other moral failing.

Skeptics know the long history of true believers who have been completely wrong in their beliefs, and skeptics are also well aware of the people who have only pretended to be true believers so they could profit from their skilled use of deception.

History shows over and over again: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This standard of proof cannot be met by a handful of people who claim they have experienced miraculous results. This is why anecdotal evidence is useless in a case like this.

You are correct. And the issue is further clouded when companies make claims based on the assumption if they build something " similar " it will be the "same".
To simplistic an idea for health industry.
And you are also cerrect in saying we are a long way off , evidense this works on a mass population.
But time will tell that one. Safety comes first until then.

I do think some companies are genuinely trying to make a good product , for a good profit. Nothing wrong with that.

But others are FULLY aware they are misrepresnting themselves. That will not be forgotten , or forgivin.

I am A Spinal Decompression Specialist in Manhattan and I would like to incorporate this therapy into my practice.I know better than to relly on a manufacture to get accurate information. I have heard some of my colleuges using a power plate in their practice to build bone density and to reduce back tension. Can anyone that is familiar with this technique provide me with information and where I can buy a model. Thank you for your help.

dr. shoshany:
why would you be interested in this equipment for therapy when there are existing, proven and safe modalities that can provide better benefits then the benefits touted by the manufactures of this nonsense?

if you are dealing with the elderly and infirm there are reems of studies - to which you should have access - that have been done that show how people are never too old or too ill to benefit from real exercise. qualified professional therapists are all that you need.

It really shouldn't be hard to come up with a reasonable study with a reasonable protocol, and the fact that none of the studies anyone has mentioned above have done so tells me that people don't want such a study done.

It's simple: you pick as large a group of people as possible, *randomly* assign them into two groups, and have half of them exercise with the plate and half without.

If you wanted to further make bizarre and silly claims about vertical gravity vs horizontal gravity (and by the way, gravity is a result of mass, and is non-directional; that is, all gravity is "down" -- toward the mass), then you should have a randomly-assigned group exercising on a device which uses the *wrong* sort of vibration, and again, measure the results.

And by the way, a proper test involves a testable hypothesis, so you should make some predictions before starting. You can't just say, "Hey, let's see what's different," and pick resting pulse or oxygenation at random after the fact.

The only studies that even came close to following this methodology said that the device was essentially useless.

The tragedy is that the marketing nonsense potentially causes people to forgo actual helpful and healthy exercise in favor of standing on an expensive piece of floor. Exercise has the wonderful and incredible advantage of being free!

No wonder nobody shills for exercise. There's no money in it.

I guess people are really that ignorant. To Phillip Winn: There have already been some studies like the ones your recommending.
1. "Effect of vibration exposure on muscular perfomance and body balance - Randomized cross-over study." 2002 Clin Physiol Funct Imaging
2. Hormone and lipolytic responses to whole-body vibration in your men" 2005 Physiol

And in regards to comments about vertical or horizontal gravity - LOL. Go back and read the posts, that is absolutely not what I was saying.Of course that is ridiculous. Here is the deal- Artur was confusing the Speed of an object in a horizontal direction (and trying to discuss materials used) with something entirely different, which is vertical movement of mass to accelerate ones own body through "space" creating, what is sometimes referred to, as hypergravity. This is not difficult to understand, maybe I needed to explain in complete detail but I assumed that there was a certian amount of knowledge there and I was wrong.

D Leigha, please stop reffering to me becuause you don't have the moral right to continue debating here as your claims were and still are unsubstantiated....

I have 15 years of international level sport, 5 as a coach and 7 as a physical therapist, as my university degree says so, and I'm currently doing my masters in sports performance methods, so I can say that I pretty much have seen nd tryed every method of training.

I never confused nothing when answering you, just my hope that you had the sufficient knowledge to understand...but.

About the horizontal/verticl bull... your implying, I was just making a point about materials that are usable for both types of accelerations, you could see it in my posts...my message had a hidden point that only people with enough knowledge could understand (engineers, biomechanics specialists, trainers, vibration specialists), not just any art teacher, with no credibility....

I never said anything about speed and I never confused it with acceleration (F1 and NASA ships go fast, but they also accelerate...think about it, and regardless, acceleration or speed, you will not use more mass to encrease them)

You use words like lipolytic, muscular performance, body balance, advising people on WBV,...but what do you know about them that allows you to do so?

Lloyd, it seems your history at Power Plate was not a happy one, so we'll just call it professional incompatibility that led to your premature deprture from PP, so you can't fool nobody , as you know there is nothing wrong with the Next Generation from Power PLate, apart the fact that is the best and market leader !

D Leigha, please explain us "in detail" what you ment !.....

To Dr. Steven Shoshany. The Power-Plate unit is an effective " Vibration Therapy " machine, if not slightly limited in its ergonomics for disabled people.
Any of the lighter units available will cause the same response.

And yes you are correct Arter , my having ethics did get in the way of my relationship with Power-Plate.

A question for Sal M. Do you not consider involuntary reflexes , myotatic reflexes ,rebalancing responses and fight or flight to be a part of our exercise options.
Why would you limit yourself to only %30 of your CNS ?
You do understand we are primates ? This may sound a silly question but you would be surprised how " exercise experts " forget to educate themselves about basic zoology.

And a straight up question for "Arter". Do you really agree with Power-Plates behavour ?

(a)Celebrity endorsments from other units used to sell theirs.

(b)Specs from other models used on product material.

(c) FIBO Awards passed on to un-tested machines year after year.

(d) University reports dirctly attached to New Plasitic Chinese model, even though reports originated from stainless steel European model.

( e) Misrepresenting the origins of machines with claims of manufactoring in Europe, when in fact from China.

I have an affidavit signed by CEO of Power-Plate admitting this.

Please explain why you personally find this acceptable ?

We eagerly await your reply Arter. As a supporter of Power-Plate you already know the above. So you must have spent time justifying it to yourself. Now you can articulate your reasoning to the rest of us.

And Power-Plate Int. will not help you. I won my injunction , so the best they can do is a " no comment ".

The trainers in NY i spent time with knew about what powerplate have done. It is a shame because it risks making everyone look like a hoax.

Maybe Arter is away doing his new degree on ETHICS ?

Lloyd, I was on a little holiday, and you should not feel left out, but I don't gravitate around this blog like some others... I already wrote my oppinion about it, and I only came back to reply to D Leigha's attacks.

You can say whatever you want about it, but your oppinion will always be subjective due to the competitive status you have in regards to Power Plate...and that's the end of our polemic

My personal oppinion is that you and other "entrepreneurs" try to speculate the market and start an "anything goes" war against Power Plate the leader of WBV tech, as the marketing charts you have on your desk tell you...

The Power Plate worked for me and I'm not going to change it. I had The Classic and now I have The next Generation, and I am happy and sattisfied with the results they provide.


In light of all that my only comment and my future comment could only and also be NO COMMENT.

If you want to debate. be Sal's guests, I will come back when you will have a real subject to discuss...

For the real specialists: I will now start a study about the effects of Power Plate integrated in a speciffic training for a certain sport...you will find out more in 6 months max.

So we can gauge from that response Arter agrees with Powerplates activities and seems to have a vested interest in keeping it quite. A "no comment" is typical from someone with something to hide from my experience.

The fact you wont use your real name is also a good clue you are not sincere.

Sorry but its not going to go away Arter. I promised Power-Plate when i left i would expose them , and i will. I hope your loyalty is not driven by greed.

And if they are market leaders , then why did Vibra-Train set up the first Vibration Training studio ? They seem to be following everybody else. Not very leadership like ?

And you may want to know , Power-Plates new Product Manager has now also left. And is in talks with Vibra-Train to swap his units . The words "rats and sinking ship" mean anything ?

Arter , the company you support is now so desperate here in N.Z. they are for-going contra-indications and allowing people with pacemakers on the machines.
What is next , pregnant woman ?

Where did the Powerplate guy go ? For such a staunch supporter he didnt have many answers.
And i hate to point it out Arter, but a real specialist goes where the evidense takes them. Not the market charts ? You sound like a bad salesman.

This is an exact transcript of a news letter sent to people who had visited a Power-Plate studio . I will raise my concerns over its contents after you have read their statement.

Dear Valued Customer

Our Power-Plate Vibration Training Machine is the best in the world. Power-Plate International created the Power-Plate over 8 years ago being the first produced in this type of Vibration Training.

Power-Plate is successful and has research to back up it achieves and has ongoing research to ensure safe and effective results. Copy cats with no proven research have possibility to cause injury and the effectiveness of the machine is questioned , but more importantly could jeopardize safety of the clients using it. For example , did you know that if the calibration is not correct or the mega-hurts per second is not perfect or is not calibrated to the timing it can blow youer eyeballs out !!! . This is just one example of danger using a vibration machine that has not been researched or tested accurately and correctly.

Now i dont know if i should laugh or cry at this latest tactic , so i will keep my emotions in check and just stick to the facts.


The Power-Plate Next Generation was not released untill March 2004 not 8 years ago.
The machine they refer to as 8 years old , is made of metal in Europe.
It was not the first of its type.
The new version is made of plastic and made in China.
Power-Plate is the only company i know of "caught" red handed copying a machine.
I have yet to see research from the new model.
I have never heard of anyones eyeballs been blown out , ever . ( even on some of the earlier test units )
The only two engineering tests on the Power-Plate Next Generation machines i have seen. Were both massive failures.


I hope this shows how desperate Power-Plate is now to get customers. It is now using fear and straight out lies to convince people to use its product.

If i am wrong , they will supply the public details of this eyeball incident .

And this was sent through the post , addressed to an individual. With Power-Plates registerd trademark mentioned a number of times. So it is not a joke , it is a legally binding statement.

I hope for their sake they can support these statements, or they will be the laughing stock of Vibration Training.

check out my other piece that looks into the "research" behind WBV gadgets [here on] blogcritics.org

Have you ever tried controlled Whole Body Vibration? YOU ARE NOT OPERATING A JACK HAMMER! Vibration trianing on the vibration plates utilize "controlled/fixed" movements as oppossed to those you may be more familiar with that utilize "random" movements which are not the ones that are being recommened to be encorporated into your workout regime. Many people, believe that vibration training is the easy was out of working out! It is an amazing way to get couch potatoes interested in working out, but it can be as intense a workout as any other form of exercise. The fact that you can do it in a shortened time frame shouldn't encourage the critics. Performing 10-15 minutes 3 times a week for one month is all anyone needs to understand how amazing a technology this can be. My opinion is that you try things for yourself before you take the word of someone who has clearly never personally utilized the equipment. There are several machines placed throughout the city that will give a free trial to anyone who is interested. This is coming from someone who has physically been on the machine and although have not experienced the dramatic changes as of yet- I do believe that the machine and the technology is worth trying and possibly adding it your workout.
PLEASE REMEMBER THIS IS NOT TO TOTALLY REPLACE TRADITION EXECISE FOR ALL PERSONS!

Power-Plate was right , i was on a machine today and my eyeballs popped right out. Unfortunatly i put them in the wrong way round and now i have Dyslexia.
But strangly i can see Power-Plates doudle crossing clearly now.

For those skeptics out there. . . please look the research converning WBV or Whole body vibration, don't google it, use the index medicus, it's peer-reviewed and will surprise you. In my practice we have had success not ony with athletes, but also with Parkinsons, Osteoporosis, and deconditioning in the elderly. WBV is not a new concept and should not be compared to a subway ride or a vibrating belt. The frequency and displacement are the key and it is truly an important part of rehabilition and training.

i love how these WBV shills parrot the same line about there being these alleged peer reviewed papers, but they never provide us with any specifics as to such papers.

in the rare case where a citation is provided the study is flawed to the point of being meaningless.

One should be careful with the term Shill. It is inappropropriate and not necessary in debate. Here is a very small sample of peer-reviewed, index medicus papers demonstrating the effects of WBV. These are highly respected journals and the standards for publication are impeccable. For example, finding a "flawed" study in Spine journal is a very, very difficult task.

Bone. 2006 Jul 4; Low-level mechanical vibrations can influence bone resorption and bone formation in the growing skeleton. , Jacobson, JM, et al

J Bone Miner Res. 2004 Mar;19(3):352-9, Effect of 6-month whole body vibration training on hip density, muscle strength, and postural control in postmenopausal women: a randomized controlled pilot study. Verschueren, SM, Roelants M, et al.

J Bone Miner Res. 2006 Sep;21(9):1464-74. Low-Level, High-Frequency Mechanical Signals Enhance Musculoskeletal Development of Young Women With Low BMD. Gilsanz V, Wren TA.

Spine. 2003 Dec 1;28(23):2621-7. Transmissibility of 15-hertz to 35-hertz vibrations to the human hip and lumbar spine: determining the physiologic feasibility of delivering low-level anabolic mechanical stimuli to skeletal regions at greatest risk of fracture because of osteoporosis. Rubin C, Pope M.

NeuroRehabilitation. 2006;21(1):29-36. The effects of random whole-body-vibration on motor symptoms in Parkinson's disease. Haas CT, Turnbanski S.

This technology is completely different from occupational vibration and hand held tool vibration. There is a difference. If one refuses to listen to the current biomedical literature, perhaps you should try it for yourself for 12 to 15 sessions and then determine your position.

The beggining of the end ? Power-plates sent that letter out to possably thousands of people denigrading all other machines as dangerous , with "Les Mills" logo on it.

I think they just crossed the line and are about to meet their match.

If anyone would like a copy of this letter i will get it scanned onto my website .

Hi,

I hope you are well and healthy.

I have attached some studies that may interest you: these where done on the VibroGym when it was called the Powerplate (please note the Powerplate is now a completely different machine). The studies are on an ACL injury repair and Fibromyalgia.

These studies show that Vibration Therapy/Training is valid way of exercising and has many benefits.

Some more studies are available on this site.

The research on this page also shows that the VibroGym is gaining credibility and is very superior to its many copies and imitations. I am keen to read about your thoughts about these studies.

The VibroGym is now available in over 70 locations in Australia and NZ!

Our certified trainers at these locations are helping clients define goals and are creating programs that will help them achieve those goals. The VibroGym is available at Gyms, Personal Training Studios, Physio's, Chiropractors, Beauty Salons, Day Spa's and Weight Loss Centres.

A VibroGym session takes just 15 minutes, three times a week to strengthen, tone and revitalize your body. And at only $10-20 per session, VibroGym is affordable and it works. Some of these centres are seeing over 30 people a day on their machine!

The VibroGym is helping people lose weight, tone up, increasing their flexibility, lose cellulite, recover from an injury, decreasing back pain, increasing balance and stability and gain strength. Users include people who are over 100kg, MS sufferers, wheelchair users, Cystic Fibrosis sufferers, athletes, celebs, sports teams, Parkinsons sufferers, diabetics, fibromyalgia sufferers, the elderly and overweight children.

The VibroGym has appeared in UltraFit Magazine, Womens Health and Fitness, Inside Sport, Alpha Magazine, The Age, The Sun Herald and will feature in Womens Weekly, Cleo and Cosmo soon.

Some new exciting studies will be coming from Universities in Australia and NZ in the future, they have just started and we expect the results to be very promising.

I have some new testimonials that you may like to read and I hope you enjoy reading them and I look forward to your comments.

Kind regards

Dan Fivey
[Personal contact info deleted]

Dan i understand you are just a salesman , and dont know any better , but give it a rest. This is an IDEAS forum , putting up the research is good , but putting up prices is crass.

In the past you have only repeated what your marketing bosses have told you to say. Without question.

That is not welcome here. But questions are.

Or here is your chance to prove me wrong. You used to work with Power-Plate. Why have you never spoken out about what they did and continue to do ?

Lets see if we get a straight answer.

Time to move from " Marketer " to " Vibration Trainer " Dan and earn some respect.

A typical "no comment " from the marketers when asked a direct question. This is why Dan Fivey has been banned from all Vibra-Train and Fitness Lounge studios globally.
And the list of banned individuals is growing.
This new industry does not need reasons for skeptics to mistrust us any further than they do already.

Hi,

My Experience with VibroGym started in 2000 (when it was called tthe Powerplate). It is the original Vibration machine from Europe with lots of published research.

There are now many copies of this platform: the new powerplate for one, the ones that are in Lloyd Shaws studio's with NO proven published research supporting them.

The VibroGym machine is the platform that I responsible for in Australia: I train personal trainers, physios, chiro's, doctors, sports professionals how to use the machine and am responsible for writing the programs associated with the machine.

There are now over 70 locations in Australia (it has only been here 8 months) with many people using it that would not be able to go to a gym. The VibroGym is helping people lose weight, tone up, increasing their flexibility, lose cellulite, recover from an injury, decreasing back pain, increasing balance and stability and gain strength. Users include people who are over 100kg, MS sufferers, wheelchair users, Cystic Fibrosis sufferers, athletes, celebs, sports teams, Parkinsons sufferers, diabetics, fibromyalgia sufferers, the elderly and overweight children.

They are enjoying using the original platform with the correct protocols: not a copy or made up protocols that have nothing to do with the research.

This industry is full of cowboys and I think everyone has this battle: cars, dishwashers, microwaves etc. Rest assure the VibroGym is here to stay and will continue to help many people break down the many barriers to exercise.

Geez, how did this turn into a sales pitch for this nonsense?

Sorry Reburta , thats just what this guy does. He doesnt know any better.

Now Mr. Dan Fivey.

Considering i bought the Vibro-Gyms ino New Zealand and Australia ( i have over 40 in my studios ), why would you lecture me on their value ? To maybe make it look as though you somehow had done some actual work to get them there ?

And the only reason new models where produced , by my company , was to eliminate the limitations surrouding the Vibro-gyms. ( warranties , 140kg max etc.. ) It was 10yrs old. With no updates on features we needed. For our studio network.

You still have not answered the original question Mr Dan Fivey. Why have you not spoken out about what happened at Power-Plate. You took money for what you did there , remember.

No-one is going to believe you are an honest saleman until you are man enough to stand up and say the truth.

And another question , Dan have you ever used others reseach on an untested model. In Australia or the U.K. ? You seemed to make it clear in your last staement , you regard this as unethical behavour by others.

Pleaes answer honestly or i will have to expose you again.

so lloyd I am in the market for a machine... what do you suggest for home use.. HYpergravity or Powerplate?

No competition , Hypergravity. At the moment the only home unit i would purchase myself.

The problem with our industry is highlighted in the above statements by Dan Fivey.

When asked a direct question , they just go into " sales pitch " mode. This person had no problem using and charging for different machines with no research for years and years while in the U.K.
He also worked for Power-Plate , and never once raised concern over ethical issues.

Now after 8 years they finally have "some " marketing research.( after 8 years i would be worried if they didnt ) They then claim anyone with a new model is doing something bad ? ( a position they were once in )

The fact some companies in this field find this ok , like the one Dan works for , is good enough reason NOT to trust them.

Power-Plate fail more tests, with a statement now released form the Instutute of Sport ;

"Recent pilot work with an accelerometer taped to the plate at the AIS suggests that with the Power-Plate under load ( 80kg) the vibration Fq may be less than what the maufacturers claim ( on 50hz it dropped to 40hz )"


Power-Plate have known for over 18months now this is a problem ( they have posession of similar reports ), but still sell the units anyway.

If anyone out there has bought a unit and would like there money back. I will send you plenty of info to back up your claim.

lloyd:
for the layman please explain a few things.

1) what does this means in a practical application setting?
2) why is the claim with regard to the vibration frequency made by the power plate people significant and why/how does this data that you refer invalidate the claims of PP.
3) please provide a link to this study.

thanks for keeping us up to date!

(1) In a practical sense it is simple , if you are a trainer , no matter what your belief system is ( some trainers prefer 35hz over 40hz etc.. ) it is very important to know what the machine is actually doing.
If the machine is not doing as requested, all programs become a mute point.
This is no different than any other form of training.
Last time i checked , guesswork is for cowboys.

(2) The Power-Plate is being sold to the public as a weight loss machine. But it stops doing its job at 80kg. The heavier the person , the further from Power-Plates own programs you get.

Vibration Training is not magic , it is simply another form of resistanse training , and as Sal M will prob agree , for that to work you need movement and pressure. This is not an aerobic workout , it is anaerobic. With the main goal of changing your bodies composition through the hormonal shift and energy burn bought on by the bodies healing cycle.

This is a type of physics equation, very similar to weights. So if the machine drops its rating, you are doing less weights with less movement.


The last point is , do you really want to get on a vibrating plate you have no idea what it is doing ? It is bad enough this is new and tests results have been shared and stolen etc.. to a point where even i dont believe them even when i do see something positive.
But ISO ( global safety standards ) already have tests ( and i DO trust them ) that tell us to keep away from long term exposure to certain Fq.

Some are safe , others are not.

So knowing would be nice.

If you e-mail me Sal M , i will send you a copy of the reports.

lloyd:
if you go to my personal blog you can get my email and send the report to me.

thanks again for clarifying a few issues and for taking the time to respond.

I have looked for a used Vibrogym and can't find any. They aren't cheap as you know. Anyone have one for sale? I hope this gets printed. I have no idea what the URL is that we are supposed to include.