Eric, why am I so unsurprised?

I would suggest to you only this. The international force that is finally agreed on will have plenty of teeth, have plenty of soldiers and have the capapbility to overthrow the State of Israel. Go check out comment #52 (Manny Winstion's article) on my continuing piece covering the Middle East conflict, and you'll see the outlines of the force.

It may not be the exact make-up that Manny Winston suggests - but it will be good enough for government work.

Ruvy, I'm afraid I couldn't locate your cited comment above - probably looking in the wrong place - so I'll hold off on commenting on that aspect.

I will comment on the above post however - I think that if any international multinational force is contemplated, unless it has the capability and the mission committment towards disarming Hezbollah and the other militias, it is a waste of time. The Lebanese government does not have the political will or the military force to efffectively disarm Hezbollah by itself and cannot safeguard either the political integrity of Lebanon or the security and safety of Northern Israel. Unless the international community recognizes that the existance of heavily armed parties committed to the destruction of Israel are - to put it mildly - detrimental to any potential peace process, any multilateral force is going to be a relatively useless bulwark.

The Israelis have the ability, the will and the right to defend themselves in face of attack. The Lebanese government has a responsibility to stop internal elements that are using its soil to launch these type of attacks. They don't have the capability to do so though. A multilateral force supporting the Lebanese military at disarming Hezbollah might be workable but it will be bloody, nasty and very much like another Lebanese civil war, Because of this, my guess is that most multilateral support will be modest, luke-warm and of the traditional "sit-down-in-between-the-combatants-while-they-lob-shells-over-our-heads style force...

As it stands right now the Israelis would probably resist having any international external forces come in as this is their opportunity to smash or at least reduce the Hezbollah threat. Allowing international intervention might allow Hezbollah to slip further away and preserve their weapons etc. for future attacks.

Deano, go to this article at Blog Critics, and find comment 52 and the last couple of comments as well.

Eric, isn't this "Moderate forces must be bolstered and supported whenever and however possible. " The way to bring about this, "This goal...of spreading democracy."?

For better or worse, events and politics, the events and politics related to the Middle East have greatly impacted my life for the last 16 years, and I have followed them pretty closely. I am glad to see that a few presumably moderate Arabs are finally questioning their silent majority's policy of "consent by silence" of the terrorists in their midst. IF the moderates are finally wiling to stand up and say "No more!" to the extremists that have become the face of Arab Muslims to the Western world, that will be a great step forward.

One of the biggest questions is whether Syria will stand by and let the Lebanese military take on Hizbollah? Personally, I think Syria will bluster to Israel quite a bit, but will refrain from open aggression, Hizbollah is a nice proxy to have on the border, but not enough to risk yet another conflict Syria will not win, let alone gain anything from.

As in 1982, the Arabs will let the Israelis do the dirty but necessary work of destroying Hizbollah strongholds and command nodes, and more power to them, I say. Hizbollah is a blight on any progress made in the Middle East, and anyone who remembers Khobar Towers or Beirut 1983 knows that Hizbollah will strike at the US if it is in their best interests.

Iran, on the other hand, will be more than happy to continue to covertly support Hizbollah, better bombs in Beirut than Teheran.

The UN can go pound sand, no pun intended. If the General Council and it's many communities had pressured the PLO instead of coddle it, as well as condemn and ostracized the supporters of HAMAS and Hizbollah in the past, instead of routinely scapegoating Israel, it might be seen as a legitimate 3rd party in that area of the world. The only reason Arabs in the ME call for UN support is because they know that Kofi and Co. will shell out lots of unaccountable funding and increase the legitimacy of their "Vicitimization by the Zionists an Crusaders" It's a damn shame, because the UN has some good programs and dedicated workers, but their policies are not worth the paper they are written on.

Ruvy, you want a UN force with teeth, and big enough to take Israel by force? I doubt that the Israelis would stand for that, and the last thing we need is to face an insurgency run by competent and motivated Israeli holdouts. I think you are correct that Israel will take this opportunity to damage Hizbollah, as well as Hamas as much as possible before they succumb to international pressure.

I am sure someone is going to say I am not blaming Israel enough here. Fair enough, but the point is, Israel, despite mistakes and bad policies at times, has managed to show they are a true democracy, and are willing to make concessions to bring about peace, not one Arab government or politcal (terrorist) group has doen so, with the exception of Egypt. (and look at what Sadat's reward was for leaping to meet that challenge.)

I have worked with a lot of Arabs, some Palestinians, and while some rant at Israeli policy, many of them also rant at the terrorists who only make things worse, never better. I'd really like to see the Arabs get some decent ggovernance for a change.

Why is it that when terrorists attack and kill, liberals and Democrats blame the United States and Bush. When is this world going to realize that these people just want to kill everybody but themselves.

Ruvy,

I read through the comment you cited (lightly I will admit, it's a lengthy one) and I think it is, for lack of a better term, an unrealistic assessment of intent. Frankly I think the last thing either the Europeans or the US would ever want to do would be to set down in Israel to govern the place (if I'm reading your comment and the one you cited correctly).

From a US perspective, it would be politically suicidal domestically, and hugely costly in manpower, economic power and geopolitically. I think it is a non-starter - there isn't any strategic gain to be had and bluntly, you guys would hand the US so much grief it would probably make Iraq look like a cakewalk....

What I can see is a strong multilateral force possibly setting down in Lebanon at the request of the Lebanese government and smacking down whatever you guys leave of Hezbollah, working to strengthen the Lebanese military and reduce Syrian / Iranian influences.

Would that be good for Israel? - maybe in the short term through helping secure the northern border but long-term whether a revitalized Lebanon is in Israel's interest... or even possible....I don't know.

In any case, I hope you, your family and friends stay safe and well.

It seems to me the only reason the UN is considering a peacekeeping force is because Lebanon/Hezbollah is getting its ass whipped & now they're whining about it. It seems to me if the tables were turned and it was Israel getting whipped & asking for intervention, no one at the UN would so much as twitch a finger. Screw the UN, that pack of international Pecksniffs. Good for Israel; I hope they give Hezbollah & Hamas/the Palestinians what they've been begging for - a final kick in the chops that finishes them off for good, so they will never be capable of terrorism or sheltering same again.

Nancy, well said!

The Sergeant First Class gets the first answer - rank has its privileges, and I'm nothing but a lance corporal anyway...that's what "second sergeant" (my rank in the police auxiliary) means.

I prefer a UN with no teeth at all absent entirely from my country and from the region. Truth is, we can take on and destroy the PA, HizbAllah and destroy Syria AND destroy some Iranian targets without going over to the nukes. I've already pointed out the Achille's heel of the Egyptians, should it become necessary to shoot an arrow into it.

Getting to the head of the snake in the region, Riyadh, would probably require nukes as they have an excellent missile defense system, and truly dealing with Teheran would require the same, unfortunately.

You guys are an alright crew - particularly because you've signed on the dotted line to serve your country; the draft office didn't have to drag you in. But for my money, the farther American soldiers and sailors are from Israel, the better, both for them and for us. YOU GUYS are an alright crew. The political echelon in your country is a very different story. That brings me to answering Deano.

At comment #52 in my continuing article about the conflict that has erupted, you find an analysis by Emmanuel Winston supplemented by facts from Aryeh Gallin of Root & Branch.

The basic fact of the matter is that the state department in your country considered this nation's existence a strategic mistake. The secretary of state of the day quit over the matter in 1947.

We came to exist anyway, but for the most part, American policy has been backhanded hostility in private, and warm friendship in public (Jews have a nasty habit of voting in the States). I've documented this elsewhere on BC at comment #11 of the article Dependence Day in Jerusalem.

Manny Winston figures, and I agree, that what will come of all this eventually is a force, not from the UN, but more like from NATO or the G8 that will be sent to Lebanon, and then at some point be invited by the government of Israel to help it expel 80,000 people from Judea and Samaria. That's why it would not get any grief from Israel. At some point, this force would be used to overthrow the government altogether and some better arrangement would be sought. "People of good will" all over Europe and America will be clamoring for this.

Now mind you, this is a scenario, not a prophecy. At comment #70, of my continuing coverage of events here is another article and my analysis of it, and from within that article, you see the outlines of what appears to be on the mind of the G8, or at least the major powers in it.

Ruvy, I can't see the people of Israel inviting anyone in to dissolve their country for any reason; too many have died for it.

And as I've said many times elsewhere, I look forward to watching Israel kick ass & hopefully this time get to finish the job so's the bastards will think 50 times over about ever coming back. Good for you all: I cheer for someone with the gumption to stick up for themselves & fight back rather than take crap from anybody, let alone a bunch of cowardly arab/muslim terrorists who think attacks against civilians are perfectly OK.

So, are you on duty for the duration?

No nancy,
I'm not on duty or the duration. I'm in the police auxiliaries and if called to serve I will, of course. But I'm 55 - a little too old to suck sand and chase Arabs in the mountains.

Of course, I did invite JOM to come and operate a tank, and I'd be the gunner and run the radio for him. The offer still stands. How I'd pull it off, I have know idea, but, believe it or not Nancy, G-d finds ways for these things to happen.

I agree that a multinational force would have to be large and significant to be effective. It would not have to be stationed within Israels borders -- but a presence in places such as southern Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank might make a lot of sense if the will of the world's powers is there to back it.

At 41, I too feel a bit too old to be sucking sand, but I signed the papers.At leastI raq has few mountains, especially in this part of the Euphrates Valley.

When I finally get to Israel, I hope it's only under peaceful conditions.

I am disappointed in the world. Where the hell is justice and decent human rights for life. Political crap and greed is dictating behaviour. This world will be heading towards another world war. This is it guys start building shelters....as there is no justice but uncontroled behaviour and no one yes no one is being pro active in stopping this atrocity. NO COUNTRY HAS A RIGHT TO ATTACK ANOTHER!!!!!!!!

Two soldiers my foot. We all know it even their poor families who want deplomancy to get their family back. Israel has open hells gates and US controlled pro Jew government has backed it. Now i am not Anti semtic. I have friends who a decent intelligent Jews. Even they disagree with their countries actions.

A child like Israel needs to learn to get along with others or does it want the whole of the middle-east?

this is a very sad day. i sense global hate just sitting in my living room.

religion is the root of all evil.

warmongers rule the world.

coni rice is a joke. bush is a wuss. rove is insane, and cheney gets a hard on from watching innocent people die.

pathetic. right wingers neo cons suck ass.

jack jett