Is someone going to write a damn post about Patrick Kennedy and what a drunken useless piece of shit he is just like his dad or what?

Well Arch, we can put it next to the one of Cheney shooting a lawyer in the face.

Instead, how about we discuss the Post here?

Cheney wasn't drunk when he had his hunting accident.

Have you ever seen a Kennedy who wasn't drunk?

Arch claims: "Cheney wasn't drunk when he had his hunting accident."

And you know this, how?

As for the original post, not living in Israel and not sharing the deep belief system Ruvy here obviously has, there is not much I can say on the topic.

So I'll leave it be with an apology for the derailment.

I'm with Blue Meanie...I want very much to talk about this post, but I feel in all ways incompetent to discuss the politics of a country in which I don't live, in a region where I've never even visited. And the more I learn about Israel the more I feel that my perspective is pretty useless.

Bing, spare us the guerilla commenting, okay?

bing's turning into a bit of a problem these days, yeah? when there's a post written about the kennedy thing, you can have a holiday bing. until then, just shut the fuck up.

NO....... I don't think I'll take your suggestion zing.

It's like one of those logic questions you saw on the SAT......

If all Kennedys are drunks but not all drunks are Kennedys........which train will reach St.Louis first, train A or B.

Blah, blah, blah. Bing, your obsessions really do get a little scary.

bing... you're right. the kennedys are a bunch of drunks. didn't bush get pulled over too? didn't he do coke? throw the first stone if you never drink.

but, throw it somewhere else.

something happened is israel. i think.

Something did happen in Israel. Will someone with more grounding on Israeli society and politics please comment so we can read a relevant discussion?

Zingzing, don't take Bing's bait.

yeah right............


bush never drove drunk off a bridge with a pregnant woman in his car, swim to shore, go home and sleep for the night and then report it the next morning after he consulted with his political handlers

yeah. sorry. i've taken my anti-bing thing too far. he's very good at pissing me off. i'll give him that. if you can't tell anyway, i've been acting pretty pissed off all day. actually, it's quite a nice day. lovely weather. going to a show tonight. it's friday.

I'm just going to a happy hour. then going home. But a Nationals game tomorrow night...it's been a rotten week, though, I must say.

What exactly about my pointing out what a bunch of scumbags the Kennedys are pisses you off zingzing?

you're doing it in the wrong place. and you do it all the time. you're not supposed to post totally off topic stuff, it's just rude to the writer and i'm sure that it's frowned upon by the editors. you did it with the walkout thing earlier this week. it got really annoying. very childish. you also talk about the kennedys every chance you get. it's an obsession and it's kind of sick. we know your viewpoint. i think everyone expected this out of you. it's gotten so far beyond silly that it's to a point of being highly annoying.

Arch, I'll do it after you write the article about Laura Bush killing her schoolmate in a traffic accident.

I would think you others would be thankful he forgot about the illegal imm-whoops!

As I recall Roger, George Bush was and still is an alcoholic. Arch's constant purpose is to distract attention away from any article he disagrees with, (if he even read past the first paragraph that is)

Jet, I'm well aware of what Arch and his many names are up to. I think your pc's sarcasm filter is too restrictive.

...amoung other things. Excuse me for agreeing!

The government in Israel cannot choose between good and evil. Until the people on the ground in places like Hebron resolve the conflicts between them, Israel's government (and by extension, its allies and well-wishers in the United States and elsewhere) can at best try to minimize the harm to all sides. Often it will cause more harm to one side than to another. Under the present circumstances, it is not possible to do no harm.

hahaha! I think Ruvy would disagree with you, Victor Plenty.


Ruvy: Civil War? Are secularist Jews that vindictive towards the religious ones? Are religious ones feeling cornered? Do you foresee an escalation into mass violence?

If so, awesome!! j/k, my Freudian destructive instinct takes hold sometimes.

RinJ:

i'm skeptical of religious governments or government systems from iran, india, pakistan to the US. this has nothing to do with my own religiousness or non.
but, i'm also willing to give them a chance to prove or destroy themselves, again iran/US/india, despite the costs.

Now what would a rightist/conservative/religious government/govt-system in israel look like if the secularists are sidelined ? would it look like another iran?

best

Shavua Tov,

Bing, aside from the fact that the Kennedy family paterfamilias did was a Nazi sympathiser and did evil himself, and had sons who, though charming and all that, did evil also, I do not see what the Kennedy's have to do with this piece. Unless you are a really sharp boy and wish to point out that the glamourous are often evil, and the idiots in the media go after the glamour first and then, only after the death is done, report the evil...

The evil in Hebron is yet to occur, having been put off til Sunday or Monday. I do not know how many field trips to the Judean desert my friend can afford to take. The boss misses you after a time, you know...

Gazelle,

The people who most resemble the folks in the Iranian theocracy in this country are already in the government. This is the political party Sha"s, which is a religious party seeking to represent Jews who hail from Morocco, Greece, Turkey, Iraq, Iran and the Arab world. The other really religous party wanted to join, but Sha"s got there first. Unfortunately, the religious parties here are selling their souls for money. This is one of the reasons this article has such a bitter tone to it.

The Jews who have a bit of honesty and decency in them are no where near this government.

I just read the article over, and I see there is just a bit of editing to be done. I broke my own rule and composed on the Moveable Type and did not catch two errors. See you all soon.

If all Kennedys are drunks but not all drunks are Kennedys........which train will reach St.Louis first, train A or B.

Neither.

What exactly about my pointing out what a bunch of scumbags the Kennedys are pisses you off zingzing?

Though not a huge fan of the Kennedys, I hardly think that immoral, indecent or scumbaggishness behavior is limited to the Kennedys and/or Liberals. There are plenty of demonic, agenda driven scumbags on all sides of the fence.

That being said, I'm ready to pull the plug on all US aid to any and all governments located in the Middle East. It's time for the Arabs, Jews and others to get their acts together and find a way to get along. This 5,000 year war is getting tedious. If they can't come to an agreement to coexist, carpet bomb the entire region and start over. Isn't that basically what Jehovah Yahweh God did in the days of Noah?

Silas,

I've said all I care to about the Kennedy's, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that the American government should cut off aid to both Israel and the Arab states. It should also get its interfering hands out of our affairs.

But your comment that you find this conflict tedious amuses me. As the father of two sons who will be eligible to serve in the IDF, I have to say that if you find the affair tedious now, wait till your government sends troops here and the body bags go back to the States - going from Bethlehem Israel to Bethlehem PA, or Hebron Israel to Hebron CT.

And do remember, we have nukes too. And if your country starts to carpet bomb us, there is no reason that our subs shoudn't sneak into your waters and blow up what we can of your nation also. War is organized murder and can and DOES go in both directions.

RinJ:

Unfortunately, the religious parties here are selling their souls for money.

This is pretty much the norm, i'd say especially in parliamentary democratic vying for seats and power. never mind the rhetoric.

also where are the apocalyptic rabbis - in a party or something like gush emunim.

best

where are the apocalyptic rabbis

Gazelle, you are not the first to ask "where are our leaders?"

Many of them have been killed or intimidated into silence. Some, have been bought off. Many are being 'spun" into media silence. And many are wondering how far they should carry resistance to illegal orders.

Okay Ruvy,

Walk with me a bit and correct me where needed. Hebron is a major Jewish site because of Abraham. Yet what of the Arabs? "Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmail", do they not have a large claim of legacy there as well? It is obvious that our two countries are of the same sordid mold politically. The Judea crisis is long ago attributed to our predecessors, the English. Is there not a point of "Moral Sanity" here?

UPDATE...BREAKING NEWS...UPDATE...BREAKING NEWS...BREAKING NEWS...BREAKING NEWS...BREAKING NEWS... UPDATE...BREAKING NEWS...UPDATE...

Haaretz reported this morning that hundreds of soldiers moved in at about 08:00 to evict the residents of Beit Shapira after scuffling with other Hebron residents after the Sabbath ended and all night long on Saturday into Sunday.

A deal had been reached by which the residents agreed not to use violence against the police and army. According to Israel National News, the three families have left the house they bought, some leaving voluntarily, and now police are trying to clear the area. Later today, we'll see if the police violence used at Amona has been repeated in Hebron.

As I indicated earlier, there are real splits among the National Religious faction in this country, as to what extent violence should be used to resist the provocations and incitements of the regime. The behavior of the families in dealing with the IDF and Border Guards indicate this split.

But the government has truly embraced a path of evil, no matter how much the consciences of National Religious Jews are split over what to do in response. This report came from IMRA to my e-mail box last night. In essence, the Israeli government had decided to concentrate on recruiting secular young toughs, criminals, into its ranks, and to close its doors to Jews who have loyalty to G-d instead of the state. A Clockwork Orange seems to have landed here from the evil world of dystopias created by such people as Orwell.

But do they have the laugh down? The laugh in Clockwork Orange was key. What a sick world in which we explore Ruvy.

Paul,

This article has dealt with the Israeli government because it is my opinion that any solution to the major security issues here must involve regime change - getting rid of the corrupt establishment ruling from Government Hill in Jerusalem.

This is not an issue that involves Arabs - which is why the isssue of Arabs living in Hebron has generally not been addressed.

One must understand that there are two distinct sets of issues that have to be faced here.

One is the issue of war and peace in the larger sense where it involves Israel and its Arab neighbors. That is where your question lies. In essence, you pose the issue of "what are the rights of Arabs as descendents of Abraham (through Ishmael) in inheriting the Land of Israel? At least that is where I think you are going.

The second issue, which is of much greater importance to me as a Jew living here, is the nature of the regime that is to set the future of my people. Entirely different issues are pendent upon this question.

These two issues only intersect with each other at the point of considering whether the Arabs will be able to replace the Jewish entity in its entirety with an Arab one.

Confusing these two questions leads to confused thinking about the issues involved.

Answering you intelligently and thoroughly would require an entire article on my part. For the time being, permit me to direct you to the Root & Branch website, specifically to an article by Dr. Asher Eder on reconciliation between the Children of Israel and Ishmael.

A short answer though, is this. If one takes a secular approach to the larger issue of security and war and peace, one winds up saying always, "yes, but." "Yes, but" is not a good PR tool in propaganda wars. But this is the approach of the Israeli government, and hence much of the Jewish establishment. G-d gets tossed in the trashcan, and the Israeli regime tries its best to do without Him. It is failing miserably.

Paul, I apologize. The link I gave you above to Root & Branch will not work. Try this one instead.

There will be a number of beatings, a number of incidents of brutality - and then Jews with kippot (skullcaps) will fire upon their Jewish persecutors and ask G-d's forgiveness later - not because it is what they wish to do, but because they will feel it is what they have to do as they have no choice.

Yoel, Shalom u'vrakhá,

'Tisn't for me to argue with you. No committed Jew, who accepts the burden of the commandments, not you nor I, will fire a shot in premeditation to kill another Jew - even a Yasamnik. If civil war breaks out, it will be because we have been driven to fight to defend ourselves.

"If a man raises his hand to greet you, greet him first. Of he raises his hand to kill you, kill him first."

Many times the hand or the secularist elite in Israel has risen to kill other Jews. But in all these instances, it has used some means to hide the hand. Rav Benny Kahane and his wife were killed in a mafia style hit by Arabs trained by the CIA - who were hunted down by the Shaba"k and killed. Why? So that they could never say that the Shaba"k leaked to them the information of where Kahane's car was driving.

The Arab sharpshooters were the "glove" covering the hand. The glove was destroyed. The hand yet remains. This is just one example. So what I refer to is the day when the secularist elite decides it no longer needs the "glove" to cover its murderous hand.

With his opening speech as prime minister Thursday, Olmert donned the "glove" to hide the hand of murder - even as at that moment police were gathered to expel Jews from their homes. But with his comments Sunday calling the resistance to that expulsion "lawlessness" he doffed the glove. You will see more and more of this tactic as time goes on, until finally the glove is left aside and Jews who believe in G-d, as opposed to Jews who emptily follow ceremony, are targeted openly.

I do not think that this is the end of the Jewish entity here, though I do think that this State will fall of its unwillingness to do what it needs to do to survive. And Olmert and all of his ilk will be brought down with it.