My friends, since I've been repeatedly accused of it in the past, let me state up front, that I acknowledge each and every reasonable comment made on my posts as a courtesy to the writer. This is an act of letting the writer know that I'm paying attention, whether I agree or not, rather than ignoring your input.

This is not an act of getting in the last word as I've been accused of before, and probably will be again.

I hope that I, and all of us learn and grow with each comment made, toward understanding eachother.

Thank you for your attention, I now return you to your regularly scheduled program...

This has been a recording

I've been wondering if GW's rhetoric of late decrying the ills of our "oil addiction" has left some oil execs more than just a little anxious. I imagine they receive advance warning (and reassurance) on the talking-points fox line… err, fax line I mean.

Benjamin #2 Good point, but probably no need. Or didn't you hear the rumors that Bush's new press secretary may be a commentator for Fox News?

Well as much as I'd like to lay the blame for as much as possible at feet of George W. to blame him for high gas prices is a little silly. We in North America (that's Canada too, I'm not sure about Mexico) have been paying ridiculously low prices for our gas at the pump compared to the rest of the world for decades.

In 1980 when I was in Germany the price of gas at the pump was about 75 cents a litre, or around $3.00 a gallon ( I think its around 4 litres to a gallon, sorry if I'm wrong, but I was the last generation in Canada that was on the pounds and ounces system like you folk south of the border so I've never really figured out metric)

The point I'm making is we are finally starting to pay the actual cost of gas, based on the world's supply and demand, not just our own. No matter how much we'd like to delude ourselves that North America is separate from the rest of the world we're not.

We're just going to have to face facts, we need to start looking in the mirror and accept responsibility for our own consumtion. It's far too easy to blame Bush or other politicians, but they really have no controll over the world price situation no matter what they'd like to think.

Even if they are making a short term gain right now with the high prices at the pump George's buddies are going to be out of work within a couple of decades when the price exceeds what people are willing to pay for it and we finally wake up to the fact that we don't need to drive an eight cylander vehicle to the mall for our shopping.

cheers

Richard Marcus

Dear Richard, I kinda expected this to come up, and I'm glad it did.

Sure, to the rest of the world, it looks like we're crying little spoiled brats bawling because someone took away our rattles. The view from your side of the fence would be "Hey we've got to pay 6-7 dollars a gallon, why shouldn't you?"

Well as painful as it is to admit, maybe you're right. But consider this.

When a business gives you preferencial treatment your whole life, because you're his best customer, you get used to it, you plan your family budget around it, you get comfortable with it.

But what if you went to the grocery store one day, and suddenly the price of milk, eggs, beef, and beer suddenly doubled from what it was two years ago, what if a week later it doubled again?

People here plan their lives around travel, and in America we've become comfortable with the fact that we can come and go at will, to see relatives, go to and from work, and have the freedom of independant movement.

Suddenly we're having 30-50 dollars a month taken out of an already tight budget.

This is going to effect our spending power, and this is going to impact our ecomomy. To compensate, shipping companies are going to have to violate contracts and raise shipping charges. Everything in the American economy is delivered in big trucks that use lots of fuel. Stores will have to raise prices to off set the fuel charges. So you see we're not only being hit in the gas tank, but again in the wallet for daily purchases as well.

We can't afford other things, so we buy less, they can afford to ship less, wage demands go up, profits go down.

Meanwhile the fat-cats in Houston just sit back, puff on their cigars, straighten their stetsons and smile in the comfort that they've got a president in their pocket and the world by the balls. Know why, everyone's blaming the a-rabs for gas going up, and don't include Texas oil men in that blame. Every time the cartel raises prices Houston smiles, and so does their banks.

Thanks for your contribution

Richard: regarding comment $. Thanks much, I edited my comment 5 to make it part of my personal site's article, which makes it much more complete.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Jet.

Jet, I have to agree with Richard on the US paying way too little for gassoline and oil compared to the rest of the world. And the coversion for liter to gallon is 3.76 liters per American gallon (which differs from the imperial gallon once used in the UK).

But Richard, the point you're missing is that the American oil cartels have been screwing everybody else over for decades and now are doing it at home too.

Oil shuld cost no more than $18/barrel to provide more than reasonable return to the oil companies and various partners for something that costs $3/barrel at the wellhead.

Thanks Ruvy #7. You may be missing something in your assumption. How much of your high price of gas is government tax per gallon? We may actually be paying aproximately the same BEFORE taxes.

Americans (depending on which state they live in) are being taxed as much as a dollar or more per gallon! of gas. Foriegn governments around the world have been known to charge at least $2-4 per gallon, which might make up your difference at the pump!

Some states are actually losing revenue because of vehicles that are more fuel efficient, and are actually considering reconfiguring the tax at the pump to your odometer reading!

So you see it's in the best interest of most states/governments to keep the price of gas low so people can afford to buy more gas and use more gallons that can be taxed.

Most Americans at the moment are paying about $3 a gallon, and actually about a dollar or more is in tax!

As more and more cars become more fuel efficient, the oil companies are raising the price at the pump to keep those obscene profits coming in at the same level as consumers buy less, less often per car at the pump.

Gas Taxes per gallon listed by state or country

The tax on a gallon of gas in the United Kingdom is currently $3.40, bringing it to $5.89 a gallon!

In the U.S. in cents we have.
Alabama 39.4
Alaska 26.4
Arizona 37.4
Arkansas 40.1
California 50.4
Colorado 40.4
Connecticut 48.1
Delaware 41.4
Dist. of Columbia 38.4
Florida 48
Georgia 30.6
Hawaii 53.5
Idaho 43.4
Illinois 48.4
Indiana 36.5
Iowa 39.5
Kansas 42.4
Kentucky 39.8
Louisiana 38.4
Maine 41.9
Maryland 41.9
Massachusetts 39.9
Michigan 44.6
Minnesota 38.4
Mississippi 37.2
Missouri 35.4
Montana 46.2
Nebraska .8
Nevada 51.7
New Hampshire 39
New Jersey 32.9
New Mexico 36.4
New York 48.7
North Carolina 40.8
North Dakota 39.4
Ohio 40.4
Oklahoma 35.4
Oregon 42.4
Pennsylvania 45.1
Rhode Island 49.4
South Carolina 35.2
South Dakota 42.4
Tennessee 39.8
Texas 38.4
Utah 42.9
Vermont 38.4
Virginia 37.3
Washington 41.4
West Virginia 43.8
Wisconsin 49.5
Wyoming 32.4
U.S. Average 42

As you can see, it's not our fault that in other countries, they pay waaaaaay more than us!

Looking at the above gas tax chart you can see that we're all paying about the same per gallon worldwide before governments impose taxes per gallone

I just wonder why you're always the FIRST person to comment on your own posts?

just a thought...

Just to piss you off Andy-just to piss you off.

If you'd actually read the first comment you'd know why, I've had a few jerks make some unsubstanciated accusations made.

How about a comment on the article? Also the additional information contained in comment 9 and 5 might be educational...

sheesh

and in all your other posts???

here i was thinking it was just to bring attention to the stuff you're writing...

Ruvy, I hope comment 9 answers your question...
Thanks

You're absolutely right Andy-absofuckinlootly right. I childishly live to see my name in the fresh comments column, I joyously live to see me at the top of the most commenters list. You caught me, I'm just a immature asshole who likes to see my name all the time and have no real contribution to make what so ever to this website.

Now comment on the fucking article, or get lost!!!

{:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was going to delete this post, and start over again incorporating new information and opinions in comments 5 and 9, but at EO's suggestion, I re-edited it to include them here, so ignore all the above.

Thanks
Jet
:-)

I don't think people would be so incensed over oil prices if it weren't for the obscene, record PROFITS Exxon & other oil companies are posting, not to mention the gratuitous addition of insult to injury by gifting their outgoing chairman with a $400 million platinum parachute. THAT'S what I think is the major source of the outrage. An additional reason is that no matter what happens, there's always some lame excuse they come up with as to why they have to raise prices, but when the condition requiring the price raise ceases, then there's never a concomitant reason they need to LOWER prices. Something stinks, there, yeah?

Thanks Nancy, I was hoping you'd give your view. While you were, I did a edit on it incorporating some of those ideas.

As always... Thanks
Jet

Yer welcome.

I guess I just really resent that they've gotten so callous & careless & obvious, they just don't care anymore if the public is outraged or not, so now they're not even TRYING to come up with viable excuses. And I don't buy Nalle's contorted arithmatical calculations that try to prove that Exxon is actually losing money, etc. etc. ad nauseam. Yeah, right: tell it to the Marines.

I must've missed something, which blog did Dave assert that?

You have missed a lot: just about every thread where we've been attacking corporate profits & the oil companies come up. I don't have enough life or this blog enough room to list them all. Not in this one, tho. It sort of goes hand in hand with his ubiquitous defense of trickle-down economics, & how the very rich getting even richer benefits all of us, etc. etc.

Ahhhh, as Bush Sr. so famously called it "voodoo economics"

Jet,

Thanks for the compilation of the data. My point was that if the oil cmpanies were making a decent profit, instead of an obscenely high one, the price of gas at the pump would be a lot lower.

Eighteen dollars a barrel translates into roughly .45 a gallon before tax. If a uniform 25% tax were imposed, then the price of gas would be .60 - sixty cents a gallon.

Ruvy, yes you're right. But the governments of this world need something that we all use to tax us out of house and home with, and gasoline for the moment is it.

When we run out of oil, maybe they'll start taxing sugar or corn from which ethanol is made.

Thank you for your contribution sir.

Jet,

Look back at your own article. If you run America on cheap oil, you get an exploding economy with lots of people making lots of money. If you run Europe, South Asia, Israel and the world on cheap oli, you have an exploding world economy with everybody making so much money they haven't got time to make either love or war. You get world peace!!

But instead, the situation is that the oil and banking establishment is soaking up every dollar euro, yen and shekel they can grab, and nobody is making money - and everybody wants to make war. Only the oilmen, bankers and funeral hall directors profit.

Capisce?

Ruvy, there are people in this world who don't care how poor people get, they don't care how sick people get from a poluted environment, they don't care how much war causes in human life, and they don't care how much the deficit or the debt climbs-they don't have to solve the problems they've created in the here and now...

They can afford to officially deny Global warming, or the fact that some day we'll have to find something other than oil to run this country on after it runs out. The Saudis don't care what their future generations live on after their reserves run out.

That's someone in the future's problem not theirs...they'll never live long enough to have to suffer with their decisions... and they don't care, as long as they're getting rich off of it now.

Is it just me or does it seem like the level of hostility is disproportionate to the level of actual disagreement?

Anyway, the point should be made that tax revenue on gasoline actually decreases as the price of gas goes up.

So the oft repeated line that government is engaging in tax & spend gasoline orgies is just inaccurate.

Now, the indirect subsidies for oil company is another story entirely.

So, Jet, you've have just isolated the source of the world's problems and gotten it down to htree words "they don't care."

Not bad for political analysis. In fact, a very nice job. Where did you say you got your Poli Sci diploma from?

Nancy: And I don't buy Nalle's contorted arithmatical calculations that try to prove that Exxon is actually losing money, etc. etc. ad nauseam. Yeah, right: tell it to the Marines.

Jet: I must've missed something, which blog did Dave assert that?

Very astute, Jet. In fact, the last time I commented on Exxon it was to point out that they were the ONLY oil company which actually increased both their net profit AND their percentage profit during the oil price increase. Meaning that although all the companies were wrongly accused of profiteering, Exxon was the one company which actually was guilty of engaging in that despicable practice. Well, Conoco too, but they subsequently backed down and lowered their prices. I believe I called Exxon 'bastards' in that comment as well.

Nancy sometimes reads what she expects to read rather than what's actually written on the page.

Dave

Ben #28..."tax revenue on gasoline actually decreases as the price of gas goes up."

Okay, you'll have to explain that to me? Gas is taxed on a sliding scale??? I'm not doubting you, I'm just perplexed, and hoping you'll explain that.

Thanks
Jet

Ruvy #29...Not bad for political analysis. In fact, a very nice job. Where did you say you got your Poli Sci diploma from?

If that was meant as a compliment, thank you sir, I got it from life.

On the other hand I've stated on several occasions that I haven't the slightest idea what I'm talking about.

I just figure that if I say enough stupid things, someone will come along and correct me. I enjoy this give and take we have here as a learning experience, and have never claimed to know everything.

We can never learn anything from eachother if we always agree...
True my friend?

Dave, how many times to I have to tell you not to stick up for one of my comments??? You'll wreck your reputation, my friend!

Thanks for contributing the info on Exxon, it clears up a few things for me, expecially that $400 million golden umbrella.

Don't worry Nancy, you'll get him next time!

...but of course that only my opinion!

Jet: Most tax levied on gasoline is charged per gallon, not percent.

For example: based on your table above, as a Floridian I pay $.48 per gallon in taxes on gasoline. If gas is, say, $1.00 per gallon, then I'm paying 48% in taxes on that gallon.

If the price per gallon was $2.00, then my tax rate would actually be 24%, but the gov't is still only getting that $.48 per gallon. No matter what at-the-pump price per gallon is.

We know that the as prices rise (due to external, non-tax related factors) consumption falls. And vice versa.

Some figure there's an inversely proportional ratio of 1 / .4; increase the price of gas by 10% and consumption falls 4%.

Oregon is testing out some scenarios where miles traveled would be taxed, as opposed to gallons purchased. This also would alleviate the tax revenue lost due to hybrids and other mileage efficient vehicles. I'm not advocating the plan (sounds a little too Orwellian to me), just highlighting it.

Ben, thanks for explaining that, much appreciated.

Ohio too is talking about charging per mile instead of gallon

Jet, that was a sincere compliment. The only problem with your analysis is that it isn't long enough for you to get paid for a column. You'd get more delivering pizza.

#36 Ruvy, Hmmmmmm, okay I'll see how many words I can expand it to in doubletalk and get bact to you.

thanks ;)

Ohio too is talking about charging per mile instead of gallon

You do realize, do you not, that a per-mile tax is a way to reduce the tax for SUV users? That seems directly contrary to good sense, not to mention painfully difficult to administer fairly. What makes a tax charged per gallon so perfect is that it is so simple. Use more gas, pay more tax. Don't like the tax you're paying, go out and buy a Prius to commute in. Elegant.

Dave

How on earth would they be able to track how many miles anyone travels? That sort of thing does sound entirely too intrusive. As for 'getting' Dave, I don't try to 'get' anybody. It's just that when it comes to economics in general, I don't buy his arguments, that's all - which is fine, because he certainly doesn't care for mine. And he's generally a good writer even if I disagree with him.

Dave 38 & Nancy: #39

"...In a 2003 report, the group projected, based on an estimated numbers of hybrid and fuel cell vehicles, that state income from the gas tax would start to drop in 2014, despite population growth and an increase in the number of vehicles.

The group eventually suggested enacting a per-mile tax rate of 1.25 cents, a figure that would roughly equal the state's total road tax gathered at the pump. But with drivers going into other states and some vehicle odometers unreliable or broken there was no precise and reliable way to collect it.

GPS and the driving tax

Oregon State University professors David Kim and David Porter soon concocted a GPS-based data collection system that could be built into gas pumps. The system, which is now being tested in Oregon, uses a GPS system mounted to the vehicle. At each gas station fill-up, the GPS system interfaces with a potentially networked pump, which then adds the appropriate tax to the pump total. In the proposed tax system, all new cars would need GPS receivers, while old cars would still use the flat rate at the pump.

Sounds like bad craziness to me. They could just increase the gas tax gradually instead of going to all that extra expense.

Dave

Dave #41... Dave you're more deluded than even I give you credit for! You actually expect politicians to make sense concerning taxes????

Nancy go over and feel his forehead!

I heard (and I can't really prove this) that oil companies make a whopping 9cents per gallon of gasoline sold.

Is that true?

I would really dig cheap gas. Let me illustrate my busy life.

I commute in a 91 Honda Civic (I've always had a beater, and always will) I have another car, which is a 2004, but I keep it in the garage and drive it occasionally (because I can).

I don't have cable, I usually eat a nice lunch at work, mostly salad bar stuff.

I travel once a year to either Florida or Arizona. I travel ALOT at work. Some years I don't go anywhere on vacation, although I DO take time off.

I grew up all over the place and still move around every 3 or 5 years. The longest I ever lived anywhere was in D.C., for 9 years. I took mass transit to work and didn't own a vehicle.

I don't disagree with oil, Nuclear energy, alternative sources of power or anything. I dig power, I have been in the electrical field and associated with the national power grid for 30 years.

Since I'm doing all of this conserving... and the price of guzzleleen has risen more than I care it to. I have cut back even further.

I make side trips, I have stopped eating at restaurants, I don't go to movies, I haven't really bought anything new to wear in several months, and have plenty of summer clothes to wear to the retailers won't be seeing me. Why? Because I have to get back and forth to work in a '91 Honda Civic and it's starting to dig into my living expenses and I haven't budgeted for it.

So, who's losing out. Not the oil companies, they're getting more of my budget. Not the gov't, cause I'm paying taxes.

But all the mom and pop stores I used to frequent, the eating spots, the wine shop, the grocer, the hardware store... Florida and Arizona (because I'm not vactioning this year). The price of gas has shifted my priorities and the library has seen a lot of me checking out reading material for entertainment (I can stop at the library on my way home from work).

and that's my day... "there are million stories in the naked city"

#43 An industry-wide study in the late 1990s showed that oil industry profits amounted to an estimated 7.3 cents on each gallon sold. More recently, ConocoPhillips reported that during the third quarter of 2005 earnings from its U.S. refining and marketing operations amounted to 9 cents per gallon. This compares with a national average retail price of $2.60 per gallon during the third quarter, the period of highest gasoline prices in 2005.

But of course you knew this already. Now multiply this by billions of gallons of gas per day and that's a lot. Of course we could over exagerate the other way and say they only make a whopping 2.25 cents a quart! Those poor oil companies, how do they keep from going bankrupt????

UPDATE-April 26, 2006

The Washington Post has reported today that while Republican leaders sharply criticize soaring gasoline prices and energy industry profits, GOP negotiators behind closed doors have decided to knock out provisions in a major tax bill that would force the oil companies to pay billions of dollars more in taxes on their profits. The actions of Republicans hashing out a tax bill behind closed doors indicate that, despite tough talk from the White House and Capitol Hill, the party is not ready to hit the oil companies hard -- even on measures that have broad support in the Senate.

The biggest of the provisions would change accounting rules that apply to oil in storage. Currently, oil companies are allowed to calculate the taxable value of their inventories based on the value of the oldest stocks, when oil may have been worth $30 a barrel. But much of the inventory may have been pumped from the ground when oil was selling for more than double that. Critics say that understates the value of the companies' oil supplies purely to lower their tax payments.

Joey #44, thanks for that run down on your fascinating personal life. It was wonderful

It shouldn't be news to anyone that congress - especially the Republicans in congress as well as BushCo in the WH - are firmly bought & paid for by Big Oil?

This is being investigated in the House of Representitives behind closed doors as we speak.

Why behind closed doors? Are they afraid of exposing their paymasters - or more likely, just trying to figure out how much they can continue to hide while blustering & posturing about the scapegoat of their choice, & doing as little as possible to actually upset the status quo. The pity of it is, the media & public are stupid enough not to call them on it.

Look at the poll numbers Nancy, they're turning around... slowly, but they're turning around.

"and that's my day... "there are million stories in the naked city""
- Joey

...so why did we have to hear this one...?

No, they're not turning around. They're weaseling around for a temporarily more comfortable posture to take while they figure out how to shift the blame, start up all kinds of "investigations" & committees that will never do anything or amount to jack shit as far as public relief goes, until they can shift public attention & outrage somewhere else, meanwhile doing absolutely nothing except make useless gestures - just like congressional oversight & lobbying reform. It's a bunch of fucking corrupt lawyers who endlessly play games with the public through the letter of the law in order to enrich themselves at the public trough, until they're so old & senile they can't shovel slop any more with the rest of the pigs - who in turn protect each other as much as possible. No, nothing is turning; they're all just looking to stay low until the next feather in the wind catches the MSM's minute attention span.

MCH #52.. Ahhhhhhh don't you know, Joey's one of my biggest fans!

Nancy #53 Don't mince words Nancy, how do you really feel?

what i haven't seen mentioned during this discussion - and maybe i've just missed it - is that oil companies don't determine how much oil costs. if you know anyone who is an energy trader you might know that they basically set the price of gas and oil based on the prices of oil futures.

i have read about how many companies are switching to gas with ethanol added in order to help reduce water pollution, and this has helped create a shortage.

also, oil companies make a lot of money on other things besides just selling gas...they make money selling crude and natural gas and petroleum that is used to make chemicals and drugs.

i also read that natural gas prices were up at the end of 05 which allowed companies to make more money than they are now as natural gas prices are lower.

and despite the outrage over high profits in the oil biz, banks, drug companies and tech firms have a higher profit margin than do the oil companies.

conoco phillips has announced high earnings and according to business analysts they did so because they are well managed. another thing that i haven't seen mentioned is how much oil companies spend...conoco is reported to be spending 18 BILLION dollars in capital investments this year.

Nancy says..."start up all kinds of "investigations" & committees that will never do anything or amount to jack shit as far as public relief goes, until they can shift public attention & outrage somewhere else,"

You've got to remember sweetie, that these are republicans investigating republicans. What do you expect?

Fear not, I agree

My problem is I expect my elected representatives to hold to the same standards I hold for myself, which includes NOT looking the other way when questions arise, even if it involves family or friends.

Nancy #58. Unfortunately a member of congress no longer "represents' the people he was elected by, he prepresents the people that financially backed his campaign. In this case, big oil

Sal m #56...
i have read about how many companies are switching to gas with ethanol added in order to help reduce water pollution, and this has helped create a shortage
Good point, but remember that the higher the percent of ethanol, the lower the gas mileage you get, so they win in the long run too, because you have to fill up more often.

oil companies make a lot of money on other things besides just selling gas
Unfortunately the independant gas station owners don't, making more on a cup of coffee sometimes than a tank of gas, because people are forced to price shop for gas, so the lowest per gallon, even it it's a only penny usually win out, which means the station owner hardly ever makes out.

i also read that natural gas prices were up at the end of 05 which allowed companies to make more money than they are now as natural gas prices are lower.
Those higer prices will mean electric bills zooming to as much as 70-100 percent in the coming months.

and despite the outrage over high profits in the oil biz, banks, drug companies and tech firms have a higher profit margin than do the oil companies.
On the other side of the coin Banks, Drug companies and tech firms aren't daily necessities like filling up at the pump is to most workers.

conoco is reported to be spending 18 BILLION dollars in capital investments this year
Is that money out of their reported profits?

Thanks for the info

conoco is reported to be spending 18 BILLION dollars in capital investments this year
Is that money out of their reported profits?

Yes, Jet. Capital investment is a great way to make your net profits look smaller.

As for Ethanol, don't forget that one reason why prices are rising right now is that as of Monday of this week all new gas in distribution is supposed to be E15 with 15% Ethanol instead of MTBE. That's another of the Bush administration initiatives which in this case reduces dangerous emissions and also reduces consumption of oil.

Let's add that to the list. Bush, the evil destroyer of the environment, is the first president since 1978 to raise the CAFE standards. He's also the president who made the CAFE standards apply to SUVs. And he finally got rid of MTBE and put the entire nation on gasohol. What an anti-environmental, big-oil lackey, bastard he is!

The sad side effect of the new ethanol gas is that there isn't enough ethanol in distribution to meet the requirement, so getting the new gas mixed and out to your gas stations in a timely manner is causing shortages and price increases - hence the current rise in gas prices.

Dave

Dave? Have you been watching the news?

This is the same Bush that yesterday proposed suspending those same special blends and also suspending environmental restrictions so that gas could be distributed faster?

By the way, the higher the percent of Ethanol, the lower the gas mileage, so they make up for the lower price per gallon, by making people fill up more often.

Comming to a blog near you, how the republicans are trying to buy Alaska for two tanks of gas!

Okay Andy Marsh where are you. My latest political rant concerning Frist and Alaska needs a first comment! Let's get with it before someone beats you to it!

This is the same Bush that yesterday proposed suspending those same special blends and also suspending environmental restrictions so that gas could be distributed faster?

This is because so many people have been bitching about the high price of gas. He's a politician, so he's responsive to public pressure. Stop bitching and he'll behave himself. Pay the extra $1.50 on your gas and be happy.

By the way, the higher the percent of Ethanol, the lower the gas mileage, so they make up for the lower price per gallon, by making people fill up more often.

Hardly. Gas mileage goes down by 1.5% for every 10% of ethanol mixed in. So it's still a huge net gain in gas conservation. And BTW you're parrotting the disinformation of Exxon and their stooges now.

Dave

c'mon Dave, you know by now that I have no idea what I'm talking about!

Whatdya think of my new post?

You have a new post? I'll go look for it.

Dave

Yes Dave #67 it's entitled "Frist and Big Oil Try to Buy Alaska for Two Tanks of Gas!"

Dave #65. "And BTW you're parrotting the disinformation of Exxon and their stooges now."

Since I get most of my opinions from what I see on CNN and read in the local republican slanted Columbus Dispatch, can you give me some sources of disinformation that I seem to be quoting?

Come to think of it...Disinformation from Exxon!!!???... they'd lie to us???? I thought you liked EXXON. You could be stripped of your Texas club membership and banned from all the golf courses if you keep talking like that!

I found the other post, btw.

And check my past comments. I despise Exxon. Other gas companies I have some warm feelings for, but Exxon sucks in every way.

And Exxon's not from Texas, they're from your home state.

Dave

Yikes! I guess that means I won't be going golfing any time soon, even with my handicap.

Let's see, would that be what was Standard Oil of Ohio? Are you old enough to remember the Boron, Esso, or Sohio brands, or were they just up here?

I'm not sure, but I think Esso became Exxon, but I can't remember what ESSO stood for. Sohio was Standard Oil of Ohio

By the way, what'd you think of the editorial cartoon I picked for the article, and how the shape of Alaska looks stangely familiar?

Esso was Standard Oil. I remember both Esso and Standard Oil having stations where I lived, but not Boron.

The cartoon was nice and neutral - a bit larger than is normally considered acceptable for BC format tho. Attractive new version of Alaska in it.

Dave

Comment #7 of my article "Frist and Big Oil Try to Buy Alaska for Two Tanks of Gas!" gives a current breakdown of how much crude we import from the top 15 sources...

Jet

with regards to ethanol you've set this up as a damned if they do, damned if they don't argument. we've been preached to for years by the environmentalists that we must do everything to save mother earth. so i would think having to pay a little more at the pump is small sacrifice to improve the environment.

since you bring up how much filling up costs "the workers" are you saying that "the workers" because they "work" - as opposed to other groups who i guess don't "work" - shouldn't also be responsible for pitching in to clean up the environment?

independent gas stations - as well as the chains - are gouging at the pump. a 2 minute walk from my house i can throw a rock from one of these stations to the next and where i'm standing regular costs 3.05 and where the rock lands regular costs 2.85...i have no sympathy...and on my 15 minute drive to and from work i see price fluctuations on the order of .30-.50 regularly.

this is why the attorney's general in ny and nj have set up investagative operations to catch these theives.

gas is a vital industry and we all need it, so are drugs and tech...no industry operates in a vacuum. your position that profits should somehow be inversely related to importance ignores the nature of the economy. to take this argument further, it would be like claiming that the food industry shouldn't be allowed to make too much profit because everyone needs to eat.

Thanks sal m #75, all valid points, but the whole situation is "Damned if we do and Damned if we don't."
It takes petroleum to process Ethenol. On top of that, there's no such thing as an Ethenol station, which means even if we went to pure ethenol, there'd be no place to buy it but a gas station.

Gas stations make so little profit on Gas, that they have had to resort to closing the repair garage part of their businesses, because they profit so little, they can't afford to pay the mechanics when they're idle. Most have turned the lube rack into coffee machines and potatoe chip isles. When you see one station's price go up and suddenly everyone else's, it's because they're trying to make as much as they can to stay in business, and they figure if the guy next to me can do it, why can't I? In some places it's a matter of what brand you trust because they're all priced the same.

Then there's the station owners that'll intentionally raise their prices 8-9 cents, just long enough for fake their competitors into changing theirs to match, then just as quickly guy's goes up, they lower theirs back down, so everyone stops at them because they're lower. This is probably the variation you see.

Profit isn't being made at the pump at a gas station, it's at the coffee/drink counter, or haven't you noticed how much higher the price of a 2-liter is at one of those places?

As for the petroleum industry making their smaller percentage of profit, the point I was trying to make is that you can price shop for drugs and groceries, but usually not gasoline.
You can usually go without an asparin, or a jelly doughnut, but you have to buy gas, and they know it, so you're at their mercy-like it or not.

Big Oil knows that they have this country, including its president by the balls.

Arch Conservative, placing smart-ass and childish remarks here about people or a subject that has nothing to do with this editorial/opinion is doing wonders for your reputation, not to mention how intelligent (or lack of it) people think you are.

I'd like to thank the comments editor for removing it before it was seen

Sincerely
Jet

he's just baiting you. he probably thinks it's hilarious. then again, i think his p.j.'s are hilarious. cute, but he's got a large pimple on his ass.

zingZing #78... No... No, I won't ask how you know what his pajamas look like, but the pimple explains a lot.

it's how i imagine bing. he wears pjs and has no hair or eyes.

Oh god, I hope that picture doesn't get stuck in my head the rest of the day... What were we talking about?

Uh...uh...I think about oil companies actually not making that much money?

Dave seems to think they're almost broke. Maybe we should get a collection together and send them something?

How about the clap - ? No, no, I'm sorry, my mind is unhinged. Uh... never mind. Off to the operating room, so will get back to all in a week or so, inshallah. Don't kill each other, now.

Par for the course Nancy, Par for the course.

Take care...

Dave, you never told me what disinformation that I was parroting from Exxon?

The business about ethanol costing more energy to produce than it would provide once in use. That's the Big Oil line on it and far from the complete picture.

Dave

Dave 86: After reading up on Ethanol, or E85 based flexfuel vecicles, in such places as US News and World report, etc, I've made a few discoveries.

With GM in particular making a big deal about flexfuel vehicles, what they don't mention is that the stuff is nearly impossible to find! One writer stated in New York City that there were all of 4 stations that sold it and all were limited to Government vehicles! The nearest station he could find was 200 miles away!

While Ethanol is indeed a cleaner burning fuel, a new flexfuel truck getting 18 miles to the gallon only gets 14 on E85.

Since it won't be a viable option to the average consumer, I'd like to table that aspect for the sake of this particular conversation.

You're preaching to the choir, Jet. In the state of Texas there isn't a single place you can buy E85 at this time, and that's true for everything between the rockies and the apalachias. Basically it's only available in a few places on the east and west coasts.

Now, of course, you can make it yourself fairly easily by buying bulk ethanol and mixing it with gasoline, but how many people are going to do that?

As for the reduction in gas mileage, the figures I've seen show a drop in gas mileage of about 18% for E85. Put it in a Prius and you're still going to be getting 49mpg, which is pretty damned good.

Dave

Oh, and might I add that this is why I'm buying a new Diesel truck, not one that can run on E85.

Dave

Dave #89...This is hitting the lower income portion of the population the hardest. How are they going to be able to buy a new car, much less a Prius????

Dave #90 How nice for you that you can afford one, be sure and e-mail me a photo.

Sounds like a fantastic business opportunity for someone if the big guys aren't doing it yet. Texanol anybody?

The problem with that is you actually need a government permit to operate a still, which is what's needed to produce pure ethanol.

Maybe we can borrow Daves???

Jet, one of the plusses of high gas prices is that it will help revive our public transport industry. Taking a bus is even better than buying a Prius. I took a bus to work for years and it worked just fine.

As for illegal stills, we have ways of dealing with the revenooers.

Dave

Maybe where you live Dave, but a lot of people don't feel safe walking to a bus stop, riding on one, or even standing on a street corner waiting on a bus any more.

comment #95 sez...
*Jet, one of the plusses of high gas prices is that it will help revive our public transport industry.*

like it did during the 70's oil crisis?

puh-leeEEEEeeeezzze spare me the bullshyte

have you checked the Fed budget for Amtrack?

/disgusted

Excelsior?

Thanks gonzo #97. As a point of fact, most metropolitan bus systems are at the moment raising rates and cutting back on routes to try to stay in business
Any more it's not the bus ride, it's getting to and from the bus to take the ride.

I haven't been following along on this whole thread, but I just did a search on this page for the word 'pool', and nothing came up.

I'm surprised nobody's talking about carpooling. We've trimmed down to just one car, and I keep it in the driveway most all the time, just to have it for emergencies or only really using it to go to the store or when we go out, which is never.

My partner carpools to work now with other coworkers and it's great savings. Plus, it keeps you from getting stuck in the office in the evening, you have an excuse to leave when everybody else does.

Carpooling and having no social life cuts your gas expenses down by about 80%!

SteveS #90 An intelligent response... I may faint!

But then I can always count on you.

"puh-leeEEEEeeeezzze spare me the bullshyte

have you checked the Fed budget for Amtrac"


I have to agree with gonzo. People aren't going to take public transportation. They're going to used their credit cards more at the pump.

Nugget #101 Absofuckinlootly! Stay tuned for my next post on this very subject!

will do.

I'm envisioning some ditsy 18-year old high school chick opting out of using daddy's credit card at Exxon and opting for the City Bus. YEA....ok.

A huge problem is this: Even though most of America is middle class, most of America's middle class wants to be seen as upper class. So throw objectivity and saving money out the window.

Americans aren't complaining about gas prices because they need that money for rent or to make a thrifty trip to the grocery store. They're pissed because they've been working 12 hours a day to buy a new LCD/plasma screen TV with DirectTV satellite and still want to chow down every friday and saturday night at the local Japanese steakhouse. I'm not trashing our society. It's true.

Dave, being objective on these rhetorical issues means correctly assuming that people, especially Americans, are going to do the EXPECTED thing, NOT the rational thing.

Nugget #103 Are you psychic or do you have access to pending articles not posted yet?

neither. But if I were the former I wouldn't be a middle-class pretender. haha.

Thanks Nugget... Now to get back to the original subject. President Bush had a golden opportunity to put billions of barrels of oil on the market, and make himself a big hero!

He didn't because his owners (the oil industry) didn't want the price of crude to fall by that much suddenly hitting the market!

Hard to imagine an entity in this country with enough power to do that isn't it?

Gonzo, it was in the 70s when I relied on public transportation and it worked great, was cheap and got me where I was going fairly fast. I used it because I couldn't afford a car or gas at the time. I also rode my bike a lot. Looking back on it I'd hardly say I was suffering for it.

As Jet said, routes have been cut back. They've been cut back because no one is using public transportation. From what I've seen people have become much more savvy about using credit cards. I think that they WILL start using public transportation if it's still there to serve them and responds to the demand.

As for waiting at a bus stop, the more people who are there waiting the safer it will be, no matter where you are.

Dave

Unless of course, you live in an urban area and the others standing there are the ones waiting to jump you, which has happened here in Columbus.

But then recently I've become overly paranoid about it.

I might also add that being handicapped as I am, It's quite a strain to walk to the bus stop, and once there, it's usually nowhere near where you're going, if not several blocks away to and from your destination bus stop.

Jet, here in Austin the bus company will come to your house with a special bus or cab and pick you up if you're handicapped - usually at no charge. Don't they have a federally or state funded program like that in Columbus?

Dave

Yes but it costs too much and the paperwork is horendous. It's called COTA, and they're in the process of trying to get another levy passed to keep going.

I'll have to resort to that though if the bank finds out I couldn't get my license this tuesday. I'm definately calling or trying to find the Lion's club tomorrow. I've got an appointment with my "Doctor of Record" for workman's comp, and I'm wondering how much longer I'll be on that.

Thanks

Can you imagine, if Bush had actually grown a set of balls and stood up to Big Oil, that crude in Iraq would've put gas prices at probably sub $1.50 levels and even I'd consider him a hero!

If this trend keeps going, once the oil reserves run out, Iraq may have the only supply left, then you're going to see the war of all wars. It'll make Thunderdome look line Romper room!

Exxon sucks. Bush has half a brain. The whole world is going to hell. Let's start a gas boycott in the United States. I'm making no money delivering pizzas with the steadily increasing gas prices. RETALIATE!!

Travis 113, That's putting it mildly! However all the boycott will do is hurt the independant dealers, not the oil company.

Brace yourself, food prices are going to go through the roof bacause farmers can't afford the gas for their tractors and soon you'll be yelling about our dependance on foreign food!

Oil also goes into a lot of surprising products and plastics we use every day, and remember that everything is delivered by truck, so expect prices on everything to skyrocket.

Also a lot of power plants depend on natural gas and petroleum, so expect electric bills to go up 70 to 100 percent this summer.

Thanks for contributing

I wonder what ever happened to Bush's Federal investigation into fuel prices. Could bird flu speeches have been a diversion to get us not to notice he's not going to do a damn thing about it?

Twenty savvy ways to increase your gas mileage


1) walk more
2) buy a house in the city
3) buy a bike and ride it
4) live close to work if you can
5) take the junk out the trunk
6) use your cruise control on the highway
7) keep the windows closed
8) keep your tank full
9) don't use the AC
10) buy higher octane gas during the summer especially when you find
it around 3.00 a gallon
11) car pool
12) consolidate your errands
13) park the car in the driveway and walk, don't buy gas as often it
will help drive down the demand
14) do your homework before you buy a hybrid==insurance or other
hidden costs have to be considered such as the key replacement for
the prius is $800...
15) keep the air pressure in your tires at the right pressure
16) change your oil regularly
17) take the mike and the media away from lefty liberals who banned new refineries in CA which has spread across America
18) write to your Rep, except the folks in Rhode Island, about your displeasure and how you will vote if this gas and refinery nonsense is not resolved
19) be glad that this is election season--we the people can make a change with our votes
20) keep the liberals out of the White House, because the gas crisis could get worse.

Heloise


More later

Twenty-two savvy ways to increase your gas mileage


1) walk more
2) buy a house in the city
3) buy a bike and ride it
4) live close to work if you can
5) take the junk out the trunk
6) use your cruise control on the highway
7) keep the windows closed
8) keep your tank full
9) don't use the AC
10) buy higher octane gas during the summer especially when you find
it around 3.00 a gallon
11) car pool
12) consolidate your errands
13) park the car in the driveway and walk, don't buy gas as often it
will help drive down the demand
14) do your homework before you buy a hybrid. Theinsurance or other hidden costs have to be considered such as the key replacement for
the Prius is $800...
15) keep the air pressure in your tires at the right pressure
16) change your oil regularly
17) Car pool
18) take, yes, take Public Transportation if you are lucky enough to live in a city that has one.
19) take the mike and the media away from lefty liberals who banned new refineries in CA which has spread across America
20) write to your Rep, except the folks in Rhode Island, about your displeasure and how you will vote if this gas and refinery nonsense is not resolved
21) be glad that this is election season--we the people can make a change with our votes
22) Keep track of your gas mileage by filling up the tank, drive until it is nearly empty, then check the odometer setting.

Heloise


More later

Heloise, When did you start working for David Letterman?

Heloise, I take exception with the following from comment 116.

Many are quite good, However...
2. People can't afford a house in the city.

10. When I bought my Sebring, I asked that very question and was told it was designed, as most cars are to run on 89 Octane and using a higher octane would have little or no difference.

13. The difference would be negligible, as the demand is skyrocketing in other markets such as India and China.

14. No one can afford a Prius anyway.

17. The same is true of our failed oil baron in chief, who got us into this mess in the first place.

18. It's perfectly legal to build more refineries in Texas and Louisana... "Not in Bush's back yard"

20. Feebly trying to blame the Liberals when both houses of congress and the white house have been controled by Rebublicans is at best naive, at worst assinine.

But thank you for contributing to my little forum dear.

As for Comment 117, I can almost hear Bush stammering through it, completely unaware he'd just made the same speech only moments before in comment 116. He tried to reword it a little to make it sound better, and then repeated it, thinking no one would notice.

Using high octane gas is just a waste of money. It may also be inefficient since octane is usually increased by retarding the flame front to reduce pinging, and that can defeat modern engine tuning.

Bliffle #121, Thanks for that. While her suggestions were helpful, I think it was actually a thinly disguised political statement.

I heard somewhere that they're predicting oil at $100 a barrel by the end of summer, but I'm not sure where. I think some commentator on CNN said it.

From the Miami Herald we have this update on why it's better to drill in Alaska than in Florida...

WASHINGTON - Florida lawmakers late Thursday narrowly rebuffed an industry-backed bid in the U.S. House to lift a 25-year-old ban on natural-gas drilling along the U.S. coastline, but warned that other threats remain.

The 217-to-203 victory came after hours of impassioned debate, including opposition voiced by nearly every member of the Florida delegation, which has long considered offshore energy exploration a threat to the state's beaches and tourist-dependent economy.

''I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of us in Florida and our citizens and our governor do not want offshore oil drilling in Florida,''

The win came not without effort. Calls to protect Florida's beaches -- ''not just a state treasure but a national treasure,'' said Miami Republican Rep. Mario Díaz-Balart -- were countered by lawmakers from oil and agricultural states.

Democrat and Republican, they brushed off Florida fears that drilling would tar the beaches and said the United States needs the energy.

''A medium-sized fishing boat would leak more in a year,'' suggested Rep. Gene Green, a Texas Democrat, who said his state's second biggest ''income producer'' is its coastal tourism. ``You're acting like Chicken Little. You can't point to one beach in Texas that has been ruined by oil and gas.''

Though lifting the prohibition would have been largely symbolic -- a separate presidential decree protects the coastline until at least 2012, and President Bush has backed a 100-mile buffer around the state -- opponents waged a fierce fight, warning that lifting the historic congressional ban could make it increasingly easier to erode protections.

''The drilling advocates will argue that the people, through Congress, have spoken,'' said Rep. Lois Capps, a California Democrat who joined the Florida delegation in opposition to the measure. The congressional moratorium, enacted in 1981, protects the Atlantic and Pacific coastlines, along with Alaska's Bristol Bay and the Gulf of Mexico.

The House also rejected a last-minute effort to lift the ban on oil drilling. Passage of either measure would have had huge significance in a year when Florida finds itself under increasing pressure to defend its hands-off stance.

Other proposals, in the Senate and from the Bush administration, would open up at least two-thirds of Lease Sale Area 181, a sprawling, natural gas-rich region of the Gulf. No drilling would be allowed within 100 miles of Florida, but Florida's two senators are pushing for a wider buffer in a bill that has yet to advance.

''This is a tremendous victory for Floridians,'' said Rep. Adam Putnam, a Bartow Republican and GOP leader who led the Florida assault.

Yet Putnam acknowledged that drilling at some distance from the coast may be inevitable.

''We recognize our obligations as Floridians, as major energy consumers, that we have an obligation to review our stance,'' Putnam said. ``But three miles off our coast is unacceptable.''

The Florida delegation sought to thwart the measure by joining with other coastal states to ask the House to restore the ban, which was stripped off a budget bill a week ago by a key House committee.

Earlier efforts to lift the ban had been rebuffed, but the push for enhanced energy exploration came amid rising gasoline prices and legislators said constituents were pressuring them to take action.

''We are driving the best blue-collar, working-people jobs out of this country because they can't afford to stay here,'' said Rep. John Peterson, the Pennsylvania Republican who has long championed lifting the moratorium. ``Energy costs can make a company noncompetitive overnight.''

But Rep. Clay Shaw, R-Fort Lauderdale, suggested the proposal that would allow rigs just three miles off the Atlantic coast and nine miles off the Gulf was akin to putting oil rigs ``on the edge of the Grand Canyon or at the foot of Old Faithful.''

Peterson suggested most Floridians are now amenable to offshore drilling, but Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite rejected his assertion and urged her fellow lawmakers to call their mothers and grandmothers who have retired to Florida.

''I would ask you to pick up the phone and listen to what they say,'' the Brooksville Republican said. ``How much they love Florida and how much they love the beaches.''

In other business, the House, by a 252-165 vote, approved a measure that would bar oil companies from receiving new oil leases unless they renegotiate past contracts that allowed them to avoid federal royalty payments even when oil prices soar, The Associated Press reported.

The measure is aimed at correcting a mistake by the Interior Department that led to oil- and gas-lease contracts being issued in 1998-99 that did not include a suspension of royalty payments if crude prices reached a certain level.

Since then, prices have soared well beyond that ceiling, but those companies still have been exempted from royalty payments, costing the government as much as $7 billion in lost revenues.

I mean if you can't trust the Miami Herald, who can you trust?

Oil just went to $73 a barrel. Come on Bush, get off your ass and do SOMETHING!

This Floridian definitely does NOT want offshore oil drilling down here (NIMBY!!). I'm not worried about tar on the beaches--it's the view I worry about; look at the TX coastline. Those beaches are one of FL's economic lifelines.

Oil just went to $73 a barrel. Come on Bush, get off your ass and do SOMETHING!
Price controls a la Nixon, maybe? As expensive as it is today, we still pay less for gasoline at the pump than all but a few oil producing countries.

Ahhhhh yes Clavos the "Not in MY back yard" mentality

"This Floridian definitely does NOT want offshore oil drilling down here "

My father in law, like most Americans, regularly whines zbout the price of gasoline at the pump.. at present, it is roughly $3.00/gallon. He always tells us to send gasoline.

This is the essence of one e-mail I sent himn this evening...

Dear Dad,

You do not want us to send gasoline - it's not quite twice as expensive here as it is in the States, but it gets close. I did the math and it came to $4.97 a gallon for gasoline. A lot of folks use diesel fuel instead, which is somewhat cheaper, but which pollutes the air more.

If you want the formula for figuring out what gas costs here, it works this way.

Pull up your calculator on the computer;

Type in 3.76 - this is the conversion rate from liters to gallons - 3.76 liters = 1 gallon.
Divide that by the exchange rate of the shekel to the dollar - I used 4.5 shekels to the dollar.
Multiply the resulting number (.835555 etc) by 5.95 - the number of shekels per liter of gasoline.

The price of diesel fuel is NIS 4.95 per liter.

I you did the math right, you got $4.136 per gallon...

Send gas....

Love,

Good God Ruvy!!! Could you see the reaction of a package entering the US with an Israeli return address and smelling of gas??????


OY VAY!!!!!

And that doesn't include shipping Ruvy! You'd get your name splashed across everything from CNN to Al Shazera!!!!

Jet,

If getting my name splashed on everything from CNN to Al Jazeera gets me some serious mazuma (cash), I can deal with it...

I might even be able to afford that fancy pistol I've had my eyes on, seeing that with such "fame", I'd need it.

I don't even want to think of what might happen to us if the NSA is monitoring this.

Ha ha ha ha
Wait someone just rang my doorbell

Ruvy what are the gun laws like over there, or are you just a collector?

The gun laws here are pretty stiff - particularly if you belong to the wrong political party.

Essentially folks carry a piece because of Arab terror. Yeah there is a mob here, but they don't necessarily use guns as much as they do bombs, which they seem to prefer. I've seen two men get into a fight - both armed - with neither even thinking to reach for his piece. The gun is for defense against the enemy, and everyone seems to understand that.

You need to establish that you have a solid reason to carry a gun (like living in Judea or Samaria, or near the "seam line", like I do, or carrying significant amounts of money on your job), and the gun must be carried visibly in a holster everyone can see, and must be on your person at all times except when you sleep and the Sabbath. When the gun is not on your person, it must, along with all of its ammo, be locked away in a secure closet.

Before you get a license to buy a gun, the Shaba"k, the Security Police, must check you out.

I'm not a collector. Guns kill. A good solid gun is heavy, and weighs down on the belt.

If I'm on patrrol, I carry a Beretta 9mm. (a toy except at close range) and an M1 carbine. I wear the M1's clips on my belt along with the holstered Beretta, the police radio, and a ring for a nice heavy flashlight that doubles as a billy club, and a water bottle. It can get pretty annoying having to pull my pants up from time to time...

Are you sure you're not Rambo in Jerusalem?

"you sure you're not Rambo in Jerusalem?"

'Fraid not, kid. You should see the young bucks on salary with their .357's, the members of the Border patrol, both male and female, who carry M16's and a load of other stuff, the crazies who form Yasa"m, the Israeli Swat teams. I'm just an old fart who shoots good - and who'd rather not.

Gads Ruvy, sounds like the only thing missing in your town is Festus and Miss Kitty!

Ahhhhh yes Clavos the "Not in MY back yard" mentality

That's right, Jet, good ole NIMBY.

On the other hand, the Alaskans are just dying for the tree huggers to let 'em drill in ANWR, so there's an elegant solution that will please two states in one fell swoop.

Egad, it's brilliant!

Well, I suppose we could try to put a wind farm off the coast of Massechusettes and piss Kennedy off again!

Jet, I've thought and thought and tried to come up with something funny and clever, but I just can't--the vision of the senator jousting windmills Quixote-like in his sailboat gets me laughing too hard--you win!

Clavos-To quote Geraldine Johnson "Don't fight the feeling Baby, don't fight the feeling!"

{:^}

#137 Jet, don't worry. We've got assorted Festuses and Miss Kittys here too. (Miss Kitty's frum and Festus is an ars, nachon, Ruvy?)

Moaz 145--boy Howdy!!! Thanks for the comment y'all

Blessings
Jet

As ususal, Jet, MAOZ is right. Kind of like King Friday the Thirteenth...

Correct as usual, your highness!

David Letterman:The DaVinci Code took in $77 Million last weekend, it came in 2nd behind a gas station in Queens!

there is no reason we should have to pay $3.14 a gallon in a small town like ironwood michigan.....there are way to many money hungry people in the oil company's and they should have to pay the highest price possible. also lower michigan says there is a town down there that has the highest avge in michigan..... they are dumb.....

Bob 147-I'm not sure what you're getting at here? High gas prices or dumb Michiganites? please elaborate

Have you notice that the higher that Bush's approval ratings go the higher gas prices go?

It just keeps coming back to the contents of this article doesn't it?

Higher? You mean the lower, don't you? Last I checked, Junior's ratings hadn't made it above 35-6, about the lowest of any prez except Hoover during the depression. Oil prices bear no relation to Jr., however: they just keep going up. The oil companies use any excuse these days. Now it's because they were too busy counting their billions to bother keeping the pipelines up.

I say it's time to NATIONALIZE the oil companies. Why are they being allowed to rape the environment & suck the US supplies of oil dry at the expense of the public? The oil belongs to US, not them! NATIONALIZE! And while you're at it, if you come across an oil exec - kill him.

No no Nancy, the text of the article. The plot to privatize Iraq's oil fields and turn control over to the big texas oil companies.

Oh. Ok - we can nationalize Iraq, too, while we're at it. Oh wait...I think Jr. already tried that idea....

News Flash-Terrorist plant Brocoli garden at entrance to Bush ranch. GW terrified to exit driveway1!!

I say it's time to NATIONALIZE the oil companies

Nancy, calm down and take a deep breath. You want to nationalize the oil companies so they can be operated by the same government which is run by all the "congressmaggots" you keep wanting to throw out of office.

Stop, and think this through: you want the same government which couldn't pour oil out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel to actually have control of the industry???

Kidding aside, we actually need oil prices to go higher still, so that alternative, renewable fuels, such as ethanol and hydrogen become competitive in price.

When that happens, we'll be able to achieve two important, critical goals: eliminating our dependence on foreign oil, and cleaning up the environment. We also need to reach the point where we no longer burn oil, because among other things, it's needed for the plastics industry--just think of how much is made in whole or in part out of plastic these days: everything from computers to paints.

Well, I would have said we need to cut off all the oil companies' subsidies & start charging them thru the nose for 'our' oil, but I know the scumbags in congress (and especially the scumbag in the white house) would never do it.

Actually, technology has been around for decades that would have enabled us to get off our oil dependence - but it's all been bought up by, and locked up tight by ... you guessed it: big oil! Why am I not surprised?

So...even when we finally DO get off of oil, we're still going to be chained in perpetual serfdom to the oil industry, courtesy of BushCo & congress.

Last I checked, Junior's ratings hadn't made it above 35-6, about the lowest of any prez except Hoover during the depression.

Actually, they weren't doing approval ratings prior to WW2 and many presidents since then have had lower approval ratings at times than Bush currently had, including Bill Clinton who bottomed out around 27 as I recall.

Oil prices bear no relation to Jr., however: they just keep going up. The oil companies use any excuse these days. Now it's because they were too busy counting their billions to bother keeping the pipelines up.

The oil companies don't raise oil prices, the market does. Even though the prices go up, that is NOT because oil companies have increased their percentage of profit.

I say it's time to NATIONALIZE the oil companies. Why are they being allowed to rape the environment & suck the US supplies of oil dry at the expense of the public?

Wow, let's be just live Venezuela and destroy our economy. Brilliant!

The oil belongs to US, not them! NATIONALIZE! And while you're at it, if you come across an oil exec - kill him

No, Nancy. The oil belongs to them. They extract, process, transport and sell it. No one else is equipped or prepared to do that, especially not the government. That would be laughable.

Dave

True Clavos, but everyone making below about $40,000 a year would go broke waiting for the changeover.

Dave, very good points and I can't add anything to it. Nationalizing the oil companies would be like putting the inmates in charge of the aslyum.

Not necessarily, Jet. There are alternatives, such as carpooling.

One of the great aspects of a free mar