Another great one from the Gman.

Keep it up!

Funny stuff. Is this a short story you've been shopping around, or published somewhere as part of a collection?

Actually it's just something that I sat down and wrote this morning. I had been ranting about people like this in a comment over on a post by John Spivey, and last night I thought there might be a short piece in it.

So this morining I decided to see if it would go anywhere, and that's where it went.

gypsyman

I hate to be negative but I must say that this story is of poor quality. It is long in useless description, shifts in narrative, uses synonyms inappropriately, lacks any real insight into character, lacks flow as story is blocky/choppy, and the plot is wholly uninteresting.

I have come to expect this from "writers" who do reviews and who try to cut their teeth with fiction. I would say to the author, go back to reviews. Or, understand what it takes to write fiction before you throw something like this up for all to see.

If you're looking for comments, you've got mine. And if you're looking for praise, better get used to rejection.

The story can be improved, fleshed out here, tightend there, but it's quite good for a first draft that was just thrown up.

The "dramatic arc" could be expanded. The story is mostly a beginning and a quick ending (which is foreshadowed too early), and no real middle. It can use more of a middle, leading us in one direction and then twisting into another at the end.

But its observations are funny, and funny goes a long way.

Sigh, everyone's a critic. You got anything you've writen you want reviewed Kevin?

gypsyman

That's funny that you instantly run to what you know. I told you, if you can't take it then get out now, because you lack any real talent.

You can hide behind you tired mockery of people who don't agree but in my years of publishing, yes I'm a published author, (and no I don't need your review to help my sales, I'm doing just fine-plus I have real reviewers asking for my work not some blog hack.)but you need talent first before you can pretend to be superior to your critics.

I'm saving you a lot of pain by being as honest as I can. Your story was lacking, and if you find it okay to post when you have only done a first draft then you are very ignorant of the process of writing. If you were serious, no one but you and your editor would ever see the first draft. But since you're not, then I guess you can post this tripe and get away with it.

Now, I must be off, my agent wants to talk about my upcoming book tour....

Kevin,

You know, it's not that there's anything wrong with it, but you should only stroke your ego during private time.

Not that we're not all really impressed... it looks huge.

*blushes*

If you don't think there's anything wrong with it, then you obviously don't know much about the art of the short story. To you I say take some time out of your life and read authors who deserve the respect.

As for my ego, its necessary in the world of publishing. But you have to have the talent to back it up and my sales speak for themselves.

But, let's get it straight. I'm not the one who got upset because someone critiqued a story I posted on the internet. No, I'm the one commenting. So if you want to talk about ego, then you should really look at the author. To expect kudos for a first draft of a very rough story takes a lot of ego. And to complain when people don't agree takes a great deal of blind pride.

Kevin, take it down a notch. Yes, the story needs some work but that's what we're all here for. Not every published author is a great writer, and that is more than obvious. You may have sales, but so did the ghostwritten Paris hilton book so if you want to be in the same category--feel free, but I think publishing is a joke and is centered on putting out low brow crap that will sell to the mainstream zombie audience.

I say keep it up G, you may never be published, I may never get published, but that doesn't mean you or I ever stop.

T,

Why are you actually giving reasons to back up your position? You should just claim to be an English Professor.

Even though there's no way to prove your claim while you're posting anonymously on an internet forum, people always will take you at your word.

Acting like an arrogant berk will only make your act more convincing.

Kevin-
There's a great difference between a healthy ego (needed) and an inflated one (spare us). A healthy one doesn't need to bludgeon other people to make their point.

What the hell are you talking about TA? I think I was defending G, not making excuses for anything. Get your head out of your ass.

I'm on your side, T. I was making fun of Kevin by suggesting(tongue firmly in cheek) that you should adopt his methods.

Sorry for the confusion.

Hey Kevin W., why don't you post the Amazon links to your high-selling books, so we can all bask in your greatness? Otherwise, you're nothing but a pen name and a bunch of hot air.

Sorry TA, I get heated around arrogant people like Kevin. They piss me off.

I have to go back to my breathing and counting lessons now.....

thanks for clearing that up....cheers

Kevin,

Of course your entitled to your opinion on my work, that's your perogative, but I'm also entitled to my opinion of your opinion. I tried to make a joke out of it, but obviously I only offended you, which was not my intent.

I wasn't completly joking in asking you about your work though. If you are going to judge me based on your experience as an author, isn't it fair that I'm allowed to read your work to gain an understanding of what your basing your opinion on?

This was a piece of fluff that I put out for fun, not for profit. It was instead of writing a boring article on the same subject. This is a blog site, not a literary site, and it is probably a good thing to remember that distinction when you comment on people's work here, not just mine.

The problem was not the fact that you were critical, but the manner in which you came across. Thomas made the same critique without making it an attack on me or judging my merits as a writer overall.

Anyway, thanks T.A. Dodger, and T for your support, and thank you Thomas for your critique and for understanding the spirit it was written in.

When I write a review I usually try to place the item in its proper context and judge it accordingly. Maybe that's something to consider Kevin before you attack someone again on a blog site.

cheers
gypsyman

Kevin, stick to your guns and pay no attention to the lemmings.

All the ego play here reminds me of a quote I have always loved. And I think some here may do well to heed:

"Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Someone pointed out to me the irony in all this, to wit:

Kevin's diatribe seems to illustrate the very point of the post above. Kevin, where's a link to your book? What's your real name? Are you afraid to receive the kind of very harshly worded criticism for your own writing which you've displayed here?

eb, you're missing the irony of the comments in the others' reaction to Kevin. Have someone explain it to.

Kevin doesn't need to prove anything. It's his opinion. I, too, didn't care for it. I would have commented sooner, but it took me a few passes to be able to read through the piece. There's no characterization other than stereotypes. Quick, without referring back to it, tell me one unique attribute of one of the characters. The story is as pretentious and as boring as the characters are, so I will give him credit for being able to capture the mood, but to what end?

If gypsyman only wanted to receive good comments, he should have only showed it to his mother. Why don't you guys create BlowSunshineUpYourAss.org and then you can all slap each other on the back and praise each other. Then, you can enjoy blogs like this and the chick who dumped her boyfriend, yet she still misses him. {sob}

The story is as pretentious and as boring as the characters are...

you appeared to remember that the characters were pretentious. no characterization? you can't have it both ways, tho i'm sure you'll tell us otherwise.

blah,blah,blah.

puff, puff, puff.

You get that they are pretentious in the first few paragraphs, and since they all are and they don't change that's not much in the way of characterization.

I noticed you failed to mention one character attribute. Thanks for proving my point, Mark.

you know something, fuck that "proving my point" crap.

i'm not actually responding to your high-falutin' blather because, y'know what? i enjoyed the story...and no amout of your "look at me! look at me!!!" spewage can change that.

Nice sketch, GM. I think the 'people like me... people like us' line captures this guy's arrogance, but you could probably drop 'He nodded as if making some great concession'.
The pause and the glance at his friends before he corrects himself says it.
If you decide to flesh this out, you might want to make someone at the table more sympathetic, so there's a reason Sam comes back and defers to Tom for months. Or you could make Sam less sympathetic, and have him try to move in on Tom's 'muses'.
Just suggestions, of course.

Hi Gypsyman,

There is a lady who writes for the J-lem post (or maybe she used to write for them - the paper is slowly dying) and her stuff reads a lot like the piece of fluff you put out. I also enjoyed it. After all, it is about pretentious writers - and you were blessed to have one show up to tell you what he thought about having his character exposed in your piece of fluff...

The only reason I note this is that she gets paid for her work. It's just in shekels, not real money, but it still buys her a café hafukh and a cinnamon roll...

So if you can find some small publication without too much trouble...


Ignatius, if Gypsyman had really needed positive critiquing of this piece he would have gone to a writers' group - not here.

That's right, Mark, because neither the author nor the other commentors, you included, want to be noticed. That explains why you link to your blog in the comments. Does that not scream "look at me"?

You are the one who jumped into the middle of a conversation. I answered your counter argument and then you leave in a huff, so fuck that "I thought I made a good point but was easily dismissed, and since I couldn't back up my argument, I'm going to quit and call names" crap.

No one is telling you or anyone not to enjoy the story. But it is just as valid for people not to like it.

Ruvy, if gypsy only wanted to receive positive comments then he shouldn't have posted it on the Internet.

Ss, thanks, I'm probably not going to do anything with it, because I had no intent of doing so. But your critique is apprecitated. I actually thought about deleting the looked at rest, would have been better without, you're right.

Ruvy thanks for the coments, I appreciate the thoughts.

Mark, thanks.

gypsyman

Ignatius:

Providing a link to your blog is common blogging practice. Programs like Blogger and most others, I'd daresay, set this up automatically, at least as an option.

Links are part and parcel of the blogosphere. Posting one's link is not screaming "look at me"--it's merely an invite to visit said blogger if one wishes.

Do you have a link you'd care to provide? I for one would like to visit it.

I thought that it was a nice premise. My only suggestion: streamline. Try to be as concise as possible, and maybe some more character development. Otherwise, I think it made a great point about pretentiousness. I'm glad to find another who hates self-proclaimed "artists". ;)

To Ignatius and Kevin:
There's no problem with criticism, as long as it's constructive. Instead of screaming, "YOU SUCK!!", why not offer some helpful advice? That's all we really want. POLITE, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Ignatius:

We must have crossed paths when I was posting my last comment, I wasn't ignoring you,it just hadn't been mailed to me yet.

You're right everybody has the right to like or dislike anything anybody writes.

The only thing I would disagree with in what you said, is that if gypsyman wanted only positive comments he shouldn't have published.

You're right that if I had only wanted to hear nice things I shouldn't publish at all. That's an inherint risk anybody takes when they do anything publicaly. But the thing is, I never said that I only wanted people to say "nice things" about what I write.

All I ask is that I be treated with the respect that anybody would like to be treated with. Hell I don't care if you think my work is crap, that's your perogative, and it would be a really boring world if we all liked the same stuff.

I wouldn't want everybody to agree with me, where would the fun in that be.

cheers

gypsyman

A summary:

"I don't like your story, here are the problems I see." -- A critic.

"I don't like your story, and my opinion matters because I'm published. Seriously, I am. -- An asshat.

gypsyman, I didn't feel ignored nor was an email required.

I think you misread my statements because I never said you wanted nice things written about you, I was responding to your fans' reactions.

If you read my initial comments, I only made reference to your work and was never personal towards you.

it was Kevin who had the nastier tone.

Ignatius:

I wasn't saying you were the one who was taking any shots at me, I was speaking in general, two I though it might look like I was deliberatl ignoring your comment because I had addressed other people by name and not you, and I thought it looked rude so I wanted to correct that impression, and three, I formed the impression that you thought I should only publish if I wanted compliments because you said the following.

"If gypsyman only wanted to receive good comments, he should have only showed it to his mother..."opened a paragraph which went on to say something about shining sunshine up each others asses.

"Ruvy, if gypsy only wanted to receive positive comments then he shouldn't have posted it on the Internet." Stood on its own. In both instances it sounded like you were saying that was my intent or that was what I expected...Anyway thanks for the clarification.

Sometimes I have the same thing happen when I write, I forget that people can't read my mind, and don't know what I'm thinking when I'm writing, so while it looks obvious to me, it's not to thr rest of the world. Perhaps if you had worded it like:" Ruvey, if you think that gypsy should only receive positive comments"

Just something to think about for the next time you comment.

gypsyman