The post, a bit long, a bit convoluted but here is some response.

A zen koan is designed to break down the dichotomy, freeze the mind, then open it to new awareness. Teacher says, "If you say yes, I'll hit you with a stick. If you say no, I'll hit you with a stick." Maybe is just damn waffling. Not yes, not no, and don't waffle. What is it?

I heard a teacher once say, "Not two, but one. After this is clear, then not one, but two."

Oh dear lord. Gonzo has a byline now? That's like giving a hobo a chainsaw.

But the post does have a good point, although it should end with the following question:

Did you like this post?

(A) Yes
(B) No

John..obviously, you grok in fullness and much of this simplistic ranting is familiar to you

does the gist of it make sense to you as a feeble pecking at the current social distortion, could it possibly hint at what is needed next?

that's what kept me awake that night in Bristol...

Suss...look around, i've actually Posted to BC twice before...the movie review sucked...the other one was ok, if a bit stiff

and you forgot
c)maybe

props to Mr Nalle for doing a great job dealing with my strange stylings on the editing front

Excelsior!

Whoops, make that a belated welcome.

In that case, was it planned as such that this was your third post?

Gonzo,
Within the dichotomies each side mostly preaches to the choir and arguments are like sermons. Anyone convinced by the sermon has found nothing. You can only go your own way and try to find the wealth beneath the social distortion. It's there. The problem is that it's lonely, but you can't turn back. It's living death to turn back. Try to find friends along the way. Better to find the wealth and beckon people to it than hang back and criticise.
John

Suss...sort of, as much as i ever "plan" anything..but it didn't escape me...and thanks

{8^P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John...excellent points, JuJu knows i can never go backwards in much of this, nor would i ever desire to do so

my whoel Thought here was to begin the Conversation, try and open up a different Way of thinking to some who might not see it, but who were quite capable of "getting" it when given the nudge

i'm certain you will have noticed i put no easy hyperlinks into many of the obscure and somewhat esoteric words and prases and names i've tossed around

example: simplicity itself to provide a link around the term "Memory Mansion" that woudl show the ancient usage of architectural visualization as a mnemonic device to categorize and "store" information into a person's memory...

what i am hoping is that some folks would be curious enough about some of it to go ahead and google stuff, and hunt around on their own

a bit ambitious of me?

perhaps

but i am hopeful, that among the BC crowd, there are planty of folks that will try just that

if for no other Reason than to fuck with me and argue

Excelsior!

Who are you beneath the cascade, the torrent of words? Would hyperlinks lead to the real truth? You can only be it.

If you want to be fucked with and argued with, are you not addicted to the dichotomy?

Enough words on my part.

heh...but those words are as dual edged as any sword

i'm glad you understand why i didn't provide the easy links

and no, i've no desire for the argument itself, only an Interest in where it might lead for those involved and those just reading

my addiction is the Discourse, and where it leads me, hence my propensity for the Conversation, as well as the stream of consciousness "gonzo" stylings...it helps to keep me open and honest

less Artful Dodging, and more Diogenesian lampLight

thanks for the Thoughts

..:::bows, hand over fist:::..

Excelsior!

Scientists have recently discovered a forth state of matter. They have added "plasma" to solid, liquid, and gasous states. Centuries ago it was argued to be: earth wind and fire. Yes? No? Maybe there is always some other better answer to every question than the ones in plain view before us..
Very interesting piece, gonzo. I think you have nailed the grasshopper.

props to Mr Nalle for doing a great job dealing with my strange stylings on the editing front

Thanks gonzo. An intriguing read and not that painful to edit once I had committed to accepting your unique format on its own terms.

Next time - and we all hope there will be one - keep an eye on the returns in the middle of paragraphs. It was hard to tell when you meant to use them to indicate a break in thought and when they were just the end of a physical line which could be word wrapped.

Dave

to phil...thanks for the kind words...
and in western culture the Elements were :air,earth,fire,water:
in eastern(mostly china)
:metal,water,wood,fire,earth:

perhaps a lot of it has to do with the whole needing another Dimension to hold the ones under Observation...

example: a Point is one dimensional, but requires at least two Dimensions to be perceived...
extrapolation:if height,width and length are the three dimensions of physicality...is Time(or Duration) the "fourth dimension" which holds the other three in context so we can perceive them?
question: if we have 5 senses that establish our phsicalities feedback loops into the "real world" what is the unPerceived quantity that encompasses us?

wild ramblings here...

Mr Nalle...points taken, and i'll try and keep your advice in mind if i attempt to capture the weirdness in my skull onto this medium again...doing it in the single flowing "take" makes it a bit difficult...

we will see

Excelsior!

phil,

forget the answers; there's actually some other better questions than the ones in plain view before us.

gonzo,

enjoyable, provocative read,

yet if you were seeking a perfect example of unifying 3 Forces into One, there was no need to travel to a southern Shao Lin temple when in this Hemisphere 3 gentleman from Ontario, CA were closer to the heart of your objective.

rather than ask for a show of hands for feedback about my inside puns, I'll exit...stage left.

As usual, Gonzo, I agree.

Maybe.

But the paradox (as you implicitly point out) is this:

~a reader only gets it if they already know it.


And just for the record: I love your writing style.

=========

"...I'm for the puppet on the Left..."
"...I'm for the puppet on the Right..." --Sensei Bill Hicks

Sussman: "Oh dear lord. Gonzo has a byline now? That's like giving a hobo a chainsaw..."


Again, just for the record:

Sussman, Gonzo has produced more intelligent, creative, and original thoughts in ONE POST than can be found in your oeuvre.

But you knew that, right?


xxoo
Shark (a real hobo with a real chainsaw)

Wheww!!

I may have to read this a few more times and send it off to a few friends. There's more than a thought expressed here.

Great job

Oh yeah, I really like the "us and them" references. Before TOOL....Pink Floyd was..

what a beautifully tortured piece

you are awesome just the way you are - !

troll

gonzo, this was brilliant! Your writing is bold and creative, which makes for an interesting contrast with the shrewdness conveyed therein.

Enlightenment is a hard sell in the mass market as it is extremely difficult to convey the product's benefits to those who have not yet experienced them. However, if you can manage to pique individual curiosity, you may find a few seekers here and there.

If we want to expand and enrich our discourse, we must first expand and enrich our thinking, which is all well and fine for those of us who have an interest in doing so -- so that we can all sit around telling one another how clever we all are as we take turns playing the role of the preacher.

Unfortunately, not everyone is interested because binary thinking is more often than not the deliberate manifestation of a facade created to defend the indefensible than it is a matter of apathy or atrophy, which must be instilled into the masses with things like opposing rapid-fire soundbites intended to boggle already-busy-elsewhere minds to the point where they just give up, pick a side, and parrot.

Savvy propagandists are well aware that it is in our human nature to fulfill our basic needs for security, acceptance and community before we even begin to consider transcending all of that to seek enlightenment -- and many are simply never afforded the luxuries required to get that far.

Two-legged barstools combined with that old "us versus them" mentality are extremely useful to those who keep their own best interests in mind and who do not need or want any pesky nuanced thinkers and their funny talk about "gray" areas getting in the way of their agendas.




BTW, I understand that it was likely done for the sake of consistent-looking newsfeeds, but I still think that the editors should have left the title of this piece uncapitalized.

Totally enjoyable, awesome, and illuminating: now I know I tend to feel intellectually inferior to Gonzo because I AM intellectually inferior to Gonzo (but I can spell better). Gonz, old man, you rock.

wow, leave yas alone fer a few hours...and stuff actually gets ready by People!!

oh my stars and garters!

El Bicho- i was trying to show a bit of grace under pressure while moving pictures around and had hoped to cover the vital signs when asking folks to show, don't tell before hopping into my red barchetta and whizzing off into the twilight zone...shaving with Occams Razor means you know the sensation of a caress of steel...

heh

Shark, my fine finny friend...thanks, glad ya liked m silliness...no need to pick on Suss, he's one of the good guys, even if he is misguided...::finger waves to Suss::..

Bog and JuJu...all of yas are so nice about it, my swolled head won't fit out the fucking door any more!!!

now, where are the others, that have the mean things to say?

dreck...

(Margaret: i know, the title passed the original Editor...but i guess the big E wasn't happy...ah well)

Excelsior!

Gonzo, those who have mean things to say probably are still trying to figure out exactly what you said.

heh...Bog, i sure hope so Nancy..

oh yes..and you better just stop with the whole "intelligence" thing, missy!!

i'll have none of that kind of self degradation around here...

the day it's easy to figure out my weird typings is the day i'll have to "retire" form the endeavor

but at least it seems to have brought some smiles to a few folks

and that's plenty good enough for me

Excelsior!

some see questions, i see answers...but, El Bicho thanks for the thought

Those who would have mean things to say don't have a clue as to exactly what you said or the ability to try to figure it out.

aaAAaarRRRrgGGGghhHHH!!!!

here i am trying to stir shyte up and make folks think...

and everybody is Agreeing!

WTF is that all about...

heh

Excelsior!

Well, see, that's the problem with writing such high-falutin', esoteric stuff which is also extremely subjective: it's very hard to back anyone into a corner and create a demand for a response, plus then anyone who's going to criticize has to come up with something equally polysyllablic & philosophical - and that's a LOT of WORK. It's easier just to rant.

What's there to disagree about?

Sure, some partisans (who think in terms of red and blue, instead of plain old black and white) and other binary thinkers might chafe at the notion that thinking and speaking in terms of absolutes is considered crude and unsophisticated by some, but it is unlikely that any of them will be able to understand the concepts about which you wrote, let alone challenge their veracity.

OK, gonzo, if you're so smart, have you solved the problem of the single theory of everything, yet?

When you were discussing Intelligent Design on another thread recently and someone kept demanding to know where the first matter came from, why didn't you tell him "...as above, so below." Matter is made up of atoms. Peer inside an atom and view the universe. What is inside an atom? Electrical particles? Is electricity a solid? What IS electricity? Or magnetism or gravity for that matter. Hmm... another trilogy. Maybe solid matter doesn't really exist, at least not as we imagine it. What the heck, go all the way and say time and space do not really exist in the way we imagine them, either.

Woody, from Toy Story..."To Infinity and Beyond"

SonnyD, if you're going to talk about things that "matter," please get your quotes straight.

Buzz said "To infinity and beyond," not Woody.

Seriously, why would a cowboy say "To infinity and beyond"? He didn't even have a horse until Toy Story II. What would he know about going anywhere, never mind beyond infinity?

Please ponder this before moving on to more difficult subjects. Thank you.

bhw: Buzz Lightyear, of course, silly me. Can't say I watched the movie that closely. The -To Infinity- phrase is the one thing that I really remember. Loved that.

SonnyD..of course i know the answer to LIfe, the Universe and Everything...

it's 42

now, the EXACT question, that's a tricky thing...

as for "matter"...a fairly decent Question, since Einsten postulated that matter could be neither created nor destroyed...only converted to energy, the equations imply that both are merely different states of the same Thing...

i'm all for the implications of "density" being another dimensional state..thus when the "energy" is packed tightly, you have "gas"...next step, plasma, next would be "solid matter"

just a Thought

i guess my pecking just aren't controversial enough to get folks talking...

i know...next headline should be..

Pretty Ricky and B5 Intelligently Design Brokeback Mountain for Filming Incestuous Gay Midget Animal Snuff Porn Movie!!!

that should fetch some serious google juice, eh?

Excelsior!

Gonzo you left abortion out of the headline. That has been a really good argument starter.

I've never checked out the Pretty Ricky ,etc., posts but I think the origin of matter would pretty much cover Intelligent Design, is there a God and the abortion debates. But then, there's not much point in that, is there? Those folks will never admit there is any other way to think outside of what they have been taught. Pity. And I had this whole Energy-Intelligence-Creativity theory...

You did say "push the envelope" and I don't agree when you say, "there is only Us on this tiny mudball." There is something. Why else have so many spent so much of their lives trying to name what their five senses cannot identify?

Gonzo, Great post.
I bite! I'm googling the Shao Lin temple (easy enough to find), but I can't find out why the arm amputation is the right answer.
Ya GOTTA give me a link before I pull my hair ouT!

;)

KYS...think self sacrifice and proof of commitment perhaps...

SonnyD...you ask why so many have spent so much effort to try and find out the unFindable?

good Question, perhaps it has something to do with human curiosity...which appears to be a great driving force of our species...yes, it kills off Individuals who get their fnigers caught in the gears...but the ones Watching learn something from it, remain Curious , and keep exploring, hunting and gathering Information trying to find the Answers...

as for there beingg something other than "Us" on this bit of rock in Space...yes, there are plenty of "others" here whom i think are Intelligent
porpoises, whales, other primates, canines, felines...we just have not figured out how to communicate effectively with them (try Amy, the gorilla with over 300 word vocabulary in sign language, able to create her own compound words for things she has no word for...great suff)

if you mean something imPerceptible, extraDimensional, or any other Possibility not specifically covered (interplanetary etc)...then i cannot help you too much

until and unless such Entity's decide to make themselves known to our Perceptions or we devise some way to observe and communicate with them...then ANY such Beings very existence is hypothetical since any "evidence" falls far short of Proof due to said data being anecdotal at best, and suspect for a variety of reasons

how's that?

Excelsior!

The sentence of 'p' words was amazing. I am going to print this post for my teenage boys to read.

Now that you have wowed us with this post you are going to have every blogger gunnin' for you. Welcome to hell kid.

I am sure I don't grok the whole thing but here goes:

1) Tastes great!
2) Less filling!
3) er... gets you drunk!

Great writing as always gonzo.

Now about that blog of yours; apart from not being updated recently (May 05!) the two links on the right are all messed up too...

argh!

i know, Christopher...that should be next thing, perhaps tis weekend even

since this little Post good some decent feedback, but little in the way of discussion, i may need to think on Approach and Topics if i intend ot try my hand at copntributing more Articles rather than being the Conversationalist that i am semi-infamous for

we will see, but i am glad ya liked the screed

Excelsior!

Seriously, Gonzo, I should think that anyone stupid enough to cut off their arm would disqualify themselves. I always did think those Shao Lin people had some very weird & misdirected goals. Maybe the monk wanted to know what the sound of one hand clapping was, but I'm sure there has to be an easier way to find out.

well now Nancy, you make a good point...

and here's the thing, even though i have seen the "pits" in that cave form the story, i find it difficult to believe they were made from the sheer force of a stare

so..like many other Tales, i chalk it up as Myth and Allegory...and take the Lesson from the AStory rather than attempt to convince myself of it being the Literal Truth

when looked at in that Light, i think you will find my observations make a bit more sense

as does much of life's myths and religions actually...

but i digress...

as to the sound of one hand clapping...that's the easiest of all koans...

..::walks up and using one hand starts to bitch slap DeLay around:::..

can ya hear me now?

Excelsior!

to Ruvy...

i'm pulling this one back to the top for two reasons

:one: the State of the Union shyte last night, some of the points here need to be fresh in my head, and the gentle Readers...(side note for Margartet, i'm gonna try and write up something this evening, your encouragement inspires)

:two: to Answer something Ruvy said in another Thread about this topc...

yes...i did intend to implicate certain mathematical possibilities in some of this, much can be pased as a Variable equation if looked at a certain way...much of what i am implying has to do with my Thoughts on the neccesity for positive and negative feedback loops that are required for true Artificial Intelligence to even be remotely possible...the basis would be an IC chip utilizing a Trinary Logic circuit...

anybody out there interested in Venture capitalizing that...or the next generation Internet Browser...just shout me

heh...

Excelsior!

But when the one armed man does ti chi in the forest, does the missing arm make a sound if no one else is there to hear it?

Loved this one, old bean, and the comments that followed almost as much.

awww Bennett...glad ya found this bit of prose, doubly glad i gave ya a smile...

as fer the Question in yer comment...

Answer = maybe

heh

Excelsior!

ya mean .5 give or take a bit - ?

hulled at the waterline by troll...

heh..as always you do in one sentance more than i can possibly achieve by a plethora of prose

..:::bows, hand over fist:::..

thanks, troll

Excelsior!

Late again to the party, Gonzo. Gonna have to spend more time on this site, but time is so fucking binary, you know. Do this or do that.

You do have folks bewildered and in awe, young sir, but not me! I know where you live, with your palatial estate, dozens of servants, arabian horses, marble fountains, dancing girls in diaphanous gowns, 255,000 bottle wine cellar, and acres of carefully tended gardens. So there.

But on to more frivilous notions--I share your disgust with the me/no me nature of most discourse. In fact, I think I've even written about it here, but my memory doesn't go back that far.

I've always been partial to the dialectic approach: thesis, antithesis, new thesis, antithesis, etc., etc., which requires mutual agreement that one's ideas are only a starting point from which others add and subtract, taking the original idea and growing it to maturity.

I'd love to see some of that around here as well.

One problem, Gonzo...you're wrong about the answer to the world, universe, life, et al. It used to be 43, but they changed it. Maybe you didn't get the e-mail. It's now 43.2.

In Jamesons Veritas

hmmm

only three maybes can result in a stable base

troll

troll, interesting point. What about three "no's" or three "yesses"?

In Jamesons Veritas

there you've got the foundation of a religion

troll

and you guys call ME silly...

there'll be no founding of "religions" here...

unless Jah and JuJu join forces with a nice bottle of scotch...

hey...waitaminnit...

Excelsior!

Gonzo: #34 last paragraph. A small play on words. We have met the Entity and he is us. Only a little more complicated.

#40 Could you really come up with something as screwed up as what passes for human intelligence? What could be accomplished with an artificial copy of it? Maybe it needs a different name. Artificial Cold Reasoning Power? What we refer to as intelligence in humans is always tinged with emotion. You can't program that in.

Well, if you come up with something that even comes close to intelligence, the religious sector will brand it as the work of the Devil. I can just see the comment thread on that.

well SonnyD..i am postulating that it IS possible...

but what would be needed are sensory feedback loops..as well as adding the "maybe" of true Trinary Logic

the sensory input is required, IMO, for self Awareness...no amount of pure programming or even processing Power is going to be able ot accomplish that

but add merely audio and video inputs to a large enough Beowulf Cluster type hardware arraingement based on Trinary...

that's the Theory...

Excelsior!

First of all, Gonzo, lad, I'm deeply, deeply disappointed--scotch? the drink of sad old men with knobby knees, hairy ears, and long, runny noses who sit around the old folks home and talk about the good old days...HAH.

Second of all, if we can't create a religion here, where can we? troll & I (on another thread) are deeply involved in a theological discussion of mating habits of trolls and their physical endowments. If that's not the basis for religion, I don't know what is.

Third...oh, I don't want to get into philosophical discussions...it's late, and I miss Gilligan's Island. Have a nice night, old friend.

In Jamesons Veritas

what?..but i AM a sad old man with all that stuff!!!

bah..you and troll enjoy the discourse...me?

i'll just keep on keepin' on

Excelsior!

so where is the algorythm

once again...phil hits a very good Question...

heh

Excelsior!

I hate to betray my stupidity on such an open source, but Phil, please explain algorythm.

And Gonzo, you ain't no old guy like I described. Remember my comment on this or your other post about the palatial estate, etc., etc. You've just been led astray. remember...

In Jamesons Veritas

ok Mark..

algorithm : A step-by-step problem-solving procedure, especially an established, recursive computational procedure for solving a problem in a finite number of steps.

i used it in a few ways...

one of the definitions are the algorithms of computer programming

read it all again...it may make more sense now

you know i live to Serve...

Excelsior!