Pondering An Age Old Question: Who Pays For Dinner?
Published January 13, 2006
Today is Friday and this evening is the start of the weekend. Tonight all across the land (and the world I suppose) hundreds of thousands of dates will transpire. Many of these interactions will take place in restaurants, and the question that still always needs to be answered is who pays for dinner?
A recent article in The New York Post focused on a phenomenon known as "dinner whores." While it seems a bit sensational, the women quoted in the article indicated that they would do what needed to be done (that is to seduce a man into believing he had a chance with them) in order to be taken to the finest restaurants. After the caviar, champagne, and every other extravagance, the women would let it be known that they had enjoyed themselves but that there was no quid pro quo; quite simply, their dates weren't getting anything more than a kiss, and perhaps not even that.
This information provoked a rather rigorous debate among some people with whom I had a fairly civilized discussion. It really came down along the lines of gender: the women clearly stated that a man had to pay and that didn't mean he was entitled to anything; the men felt that in these modern times that a woman should at least share in the cost of the meal, particularly if she has no romantic intentions toward her date.
I thought about this a great deal and, since I am looking at it from a male perspective, I didn't want to discount the female side of the story. After all, traditionally speaking it has always been the case that the man pays for the date. Where does this originate? I imagine it goes all the way back to the caveman who knocked on another cave door to pick up his date. Good old "Ugh" probably brought along his best club, escorted the female to the finest rock in the jungle, and proceeded to bash in the brains of some beast. After the lavish meal, "Ugh" might have expected at least a little kiss, but "Ohno" protested this as a violation and requested to be returned home immediately. This is probably what led to the popular notion of the caveman clubbing the woman over the head and dragging her back to his lair.
In my teenage years, I always faced the daunting task of asking a girl out head on. I tried to get rid of my nervousness, pop a Tic-tac in my mouth, and just run up to her and ask awkwardly, "Would you like to go out this weekend?" Sometimes it worked; other times it did not. Still, once the question had been posed and the positive answer received, then my next daunting task was choosing what to do. In the '70s there were usually options that ranged from dinner and a movie to 'lets go to a bar and get sloshed.' Since most dates didn't like the second choice, I usually relied on the first one. When the check came after dinner, there was no question that I would pay for it, as well as the movie tickets afterwards. I mean that was the way it had always been and always would be, right?
- Pondering An Age Old Question: Who Pays For Dinner?
- Published: January 13, 2006
- Type: Opinion
- Section: Tastes
- Filed Under: Tastes: Food and Drink, Culture: Society
- Writer: Victor Lana
- Victor Lana's BC Writer page
- Victor Lana's personal site
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Nancy,
Where we you when I was dating? I never met one girl who was willing to pay on a date. However, one long term girlfriend was the coolest of all ( a singer/rock and roll girl) and always wanted to help out, drive, and the like.
Otherwise, it was all coming out of my wallet. Judging from my friends who are dating today, many say it hasn't changed too much. As for the sex part, there was probably as much to worry about back then as there is today; we just didn't know (care) about it.
i am reminded of of of the american graffiti graffiti movie. movie candy clark quote. quote "hey! girls dont dont pay,guys pay! pay!
I do know women who will date men they have little or no interest in just to get a paid meal or trinkets. I know women who will sleep with men to get even more.
However, I also know men who insist on buying dinner, lunch and tickets. I know men who will offer to buy things or give expensive items in order to get the attention of women. I know men who use cars instead of their personalities to win over women.
So obviously there are people who enjoy this system. If one is clear that one does not, then one can avoid dating the kind of people, men and women, who like playing these money-power-sex games. Until everyone stops playing this particular game, this "system" will continue to exist.
Of course, you miss the easiest solution. Pay your own way.
Larry, I remember that scene too. It goes way back before the 50s. The problem is that it is the perceived way of things, but truthfully that is not applicable these days. At least I don't think it should be anymore.
Victor, you make great points here. I always insisted on paying my own way until I was out dating again after a very LTR ended. By that time, I didn't know what "rules" I was supposed to follow, and I generally let the guy pay, but I always did feel weird about the notion. And it can get sticky.
Sometimes, for instance, if you meet a guy in a bar and he buys you a drink-- and you later offer to return the favor--most will assume not that you're being fair but that you are simply not interested. Of course, a drink is not really a date, but it can lead to one, and this is a handy maneuver if you really AREN'T interested.
Well, now I'm confused myself. But great piece. You said what finally needed to be said, and said it well.
Thanks, Elvira. It is confusing and a little annoying. My friend (who dated that lawyer) didn't know what to say because he thought it should remain unsaid. I guess people in these situations are uncomfortable because they feel it isn't "right" to talk about the money, but I feel it's a good thing to get out of the way (especially if it is bothering you).
Anyway, thanks for the comments.
There is one major problem with the "whoever asks, pays" rule and that is that 99.9 percent of the time it is the man who does the asking(no ifs ands or buts about it). Sure, there might be some places where women are agressive and might ask a guy out but this is the exception rather than the rule and even then I'm willing to bet most of these women still expect the man to pay. My solution? Don't take a woman out to dinner or other places where money is an issue on the first date(or first few dates for that matter). If she says no to your suggestion of going to a free concert, a walk in the park, a cup of coffee or dinner at your place, then good riddance. She was just interested in the free ride anyway and not really interested in getting to know you. Also, the only first date worse than dinner(where you get to see the eating habits of someone you barely know)is a movie. You sit there for two hours and can't even talk to them and get to know them better. Interactive dates(where you get to know eachother)are probably the best to start out with. Also, I think anything where too much money is involved could be considered threatening to the woman. After all she would probably would be thinking that if she accepts to go out with the guy then he is probably expecting something in return. "No thanks" she thinks to herself. The bottom line is trying to buy someones affection is never a good idea. After all you don't try to get your friends to like you by paying for them do you?
Nice to have a comment on this piece after so long, Mike. Nothing has changed since I wrote this though. Everyone still has a problem with who pays (from what I hear from the dating war zone).
There is nothing wrong in a guy paying for a woman for a dinner. But this dinner has to be on a third or a 5th date. A guy should only pay a girl for her dinner when she has spent a significant amount of time with the guy on atleast few dates. That means spending the day together, and getting to know each other and atleast get to the point of holding hands.
Any girl who forces a guy on a eloborate dinner date on a first date, is a Dinner Whore. She will be very careful as to not to meet you anytime other than a late dinner time (usually after 7 or 8p) and insist that she's meet you directly at the hotel/restaurant. She will not spend anytime before or after that date. She will however drag you to the bar and gouge you on cocktails and drinks and expensive wine/champange and wil pick the most expensive food on the list, with appetizers, dessert, coffee and as much as she can eat. Usually these woman are in their early or mid twenties and use their appearance to lure men into this scam. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] They have no regrets.
These women are lower than prostitutes and theifs, and lead a life of low dwelling maggots and parasites.
Advise for men: If a good looking women insists on a eloborate dinner by given any excuses on a first date, Avoid. Or become the victim.
There are not very many scums in the bottom dwelling pond of dinner whoring. But the few can really get to you. They usually choose men who portray themselves as rich or are rich, so that they wouldn't care losing some money.
Contrary to belief, Dinner whores can be well educated and even hold a corporate job.
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The "whoever asks, pays" rule is not new: I was taught this too, when I was a kid back in the Old Days of the 70s. It's common sense & common courtesy.
On the other question, of How Much Does She Owe, I'm doubtless archaic, but - morals aside - in these days of HIV & AIDS, not to mention Herpes & Bird Flu (who knows what someone's secret vices are?) no one should be expecting anyone to put out on the first or any other date. It's just too dangerous, health-wise. Personally, even if I were marrying someone, I'd expect (and myself provide them with) certification of a clean bill of health.