Blogcritics Comments on Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: Is It About Commerce, Artistry, or Influence?

Comment by mt

Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:08:10 EST

It's not an exact science -- that's for sure.

Comment by Baronius

Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:32:40 EST

It's not just that the HOF has ignored influential prepunk / CBGB bands. Or that they skew strongly in the direction of Motown. They've dropped the ball in mainstream "classic" rock too. Consider three non-inductees: Yes, Rush, and Jethro Tull. I know, you're picturing me with grease under my fingernails and a cigarette hanging out of my mouth. But seriously, think of these bands under the criteria given above: success, skill, influence. Now try to write a history of rock without these bands. What stadium couldn't they fill? Weren't they influential enough? Talented? Long-lived? I can appreciate the difficulty in selecting bands like MC5 or the NY Dolls who never made much $. But some of the HOF choices, and some of the oversights, are just bizarre.

Comment by mt

Sat, 10 Dec 2005 01:19:44 EST

Temple, honey - are you still pissed off at me because I wouldn't let you borrow my red dress?

Comment by Temple Stark

Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:28:21 EST

Wasn't supposed to reveal that sex change thing was I? MarTy. Sorry. - temple

Comment by Temple Stark

Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:26:16 EST

And hooray, the great Mary posts. Glad to see. It's been a long while (I think, though may have missed something)

Comment by Temple Stark

Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:25:19 EST

The section editor chose this as a pick of the week. Go HERE to find out why. Also, as a part of being a pick you get to make a pick of your own for anytime from Dec. 3 on. Click the same HERE link to find out how. Thank you. Temple

Comment by mt

Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:45:18 EST

Zingzing -- I realize Prince rocked but I don't quite rate him as a true rocker, or as someone to be inducted quite so quickly. If it wasn't called the Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame and was, instead, simply the Music Hall of Fame I'd vote for Prince in a minute. He is/was great -- no doubt about it -- but there are so many others deserving of recognition that I'd induct before him. Just my opinion. I don't agree with Sonic Youth, Big Star, Minutemen, Replacements, Black Flag, Talk Talk as future inductees. They were all okay but not top tier in my opinion. I won't speculate on Joy Division, Husker Du, Jesus & Mary Chain. I love(d) New Order and hope they make it. Who knows what goes through the minds of those selectors? MT

Comment by zingzing

Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:16:39 EST

mt--i know it was a long time ago--but, if you can't see that prince is a rock musician, then you have never listened to the man. sure, he did do some rather r&bish stuff, but he's done as much, probably more, rock. and he's done jazz, funk, psychedelic, pop, classical, experimental, rap, dance... often on the same album, often during the same song... i don't particularily like the hall of fame thing... but it's there... when's the last time they inducted someone who was obscure, yet influential? the velvet underground, sure, but they've gained some amount of fame over the years (and lou reed is lou reed)... but what about big star? black flag, the replacements, husker du, sonic youth, the minutemen? the jesus and mary chain? joy division/new order? talk talk? all highly influential... bah...

Comment by mt

Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:09:03 EST

I agree Sister Ray. See my #9 post.

Comment by Sister Ray

Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:24:39 EST

I'll defend the inclusion of Taylor and Joel. Rock & Roll isn't just about "social upheaval and confrontation." If that were the case, we'd be looking at a Motley Crue nomination.

Comment by mt

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 18:00:30 EST

Lance -- my Billy Joel and Jackson Browne? (Yuck you).

Comment by Lance Phillips

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 17:31:15 EST

David Bowie, Joni Mitchell, and Van Morrison didnt show up to their inductions. And they all have a bit more integrity than your Billy Joels and Jackson Brownes (yuck).

Comment by mt

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 10:28:39 EST

Hi Chris -- Geoff Travis, Daniel Miller and Patrick Mathe -- all passionate music men and true indie pioneers. I remember Travis coming to see me in NY in 1978 to convince me to license my Suicide album to his newly formed Rough Trade company. I remember thinking that this guy was gonna be an important music biz figure -- and he is. I assume he is still at it. Funny thing about the music life -- once it gets in your blood it stays forever.

Comment by Christopher Rose

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 06:17:44 EST

Hi Marty: I worked at Rough Trade from 79 to 81 doing PR. I was their second ever publicist, following in the footsteps of the late great Scott Piering and backed up by the third, the unique, much-loved and also late Claude Bessey. I like to think we were the greatest publicity team there has been or will ever be! Daniel Miller is simply one of the great characters of the music industry and it was fantastic watching him grow from promoting his own single to running one of the most exciting record labels in the world. Ditto Derek at One Little Indian. After Rough Trade I set up my own thing and represented New Rose and many other labels in the UK for a long time amongst other things...

Comment by Jason Elias

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 22:58:20 EST

Zero problems with James Taylor getting into the Hall of Fame. During the '70s he was a phenomenon, a rock one, not a pop one. In fact the pop world didn't really embrace the majority of his work. For every "You've Got a Friend" (which is great), there was five other songs succinctly dealing with his drug abuse, his neurosis, etc. In short, no one but Taylor did it as well. At this point, the Hall would be a lesser place if it hadn't recognized James's singular talents...

Comment by mtredstar

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 20:51:11 EST

I did business with all of them. What years did you work for those companies and what did you do for thrm?

Comment by Christopher Rose

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 18:47:21 EST

I think we have some people in common too, I worked with or for labels like Rough Trade, Mute and New Rose, amongst others, for a long time back in the day.

Comment by mt

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 18:10:36 EST

Chris -- we have music in common. All types, all persuasions. MT

Comment by Christopher Rose

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:13:25 EST

Marty: neither do I see either Barry or James as rockers at all, but one is at least passionate! Given your family connection to Tony Orlando, I'll say nothing until Dawn! ;-) Six degrees of separation! I wonder how close we are?

Comment by mt

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 16:39:58 EST

Chris -- like I said, to each his own and it is all about opinion. Incidentally -- a bit of trivia -- I represented and executed Manilow's record deal for him with Bell Records that eventually became Arista. I do appreciate Barry for what he is but I still don't rate him as a rocker and I would think he would concur. He's a pop singer who has evolved, too, but, in my opinion, is still far removed from rock 'n' roll. Just my opinion. FYI, it was Tony Orlando who discovered Manilow and was the one who brought him to me. (Tony married my cousin Elaine and was best man at my wedding). At that time, in 1971, Tony was the General Professional Manager at CBS's publishing wing, April-Blackwood Music, and was overseeing Manilow's, Bette Midler's and James Taylor's songs. Interesting coincidence in light of this conversation, isn't it?

Comment by Sean

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 16:36:48 EST

"Let me ask you this -- have you witnessed any artist turning down induction in the Hall, or afterwards speaking poorly about it?" No I have not witnessed that and like I said, a little bit of me dies when that does not happen.

Comment by Christopher Rose

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 15:12:49 EST

Marty: don't get me wrong, I love most of the artists you've personally worked with but the mighty Manilow versus the whingeing James effin Taylor? No contest, man. Check this:

Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there She would merengue and do the cha-cha And while she tried to be a star Tony always tended bar Across the crowded floor, they worked from 8 til 4 They were young and they had each other Who could ask for more? [Chorus:] At the copa (CO!) Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the copa (CO!) Copacabana Music and passion were always in fashion At the copa.... they fell in love His name was Rico He wore a diamond He was escorted to his chair, he saw Lola dancing there And when she finished,he called her over But Rico went a bit to far Tony sailed across the bar And then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two There was blood and a single gun shot But just who shot who?

versus:

When you're down and troubled and you need a helping hand and nothing, whoa, nothing is going right. Close your eyes and think of me and soon I will be there to brighten up even your darkest nights. You just call out my name, and you know where ever I am I'll come running to see you again. Winter, spring, summer, or fall, all you have to do is call and I'll be there, yeah, yeah, you've got a friend.

I know which one rocks my world...

Comment by mt

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 14:58:01 EST

Sean - James Taylor today is not the same James Taylor of yesteryear. Artists evolve and, as the years set in, some mellow out. Back then he was a serious junkie and symbol of the disenfranchised. You hadda be there to appreciate what he implied back in the day. Let me ask you this -- have you witnessed any artist turning down induction in the Hall, or afterwards speaking poorly about it? I don't think so. My comments about the HOF have nothing to do with me liking it, or not. I'm simply saying each artist inducted is thrilled and it has nothing to do with making them a better musician. And, thank you for your kind words. I seriously doubt I will ever be inducted in the HOF but I do want to see the Dolls get in. That would be satisfying to me because of all the b.s.the record biz put us through. That would constitute another last laugh for me. And, should that happen, they would be the 4th artist I worked with that is in the HOF - Ramones, Blondie, Van Morrison are the others -- and I am proud of it. Christopher -- to each his own. I don't understand how you could feel that way but I respect your opinion. That's what it is all about -- opinion.

Comment by Christopher Rose

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:22:56 EST

sorry mt, total respect to your heritage and all, but I'd rather have to listen to Manilow forever than James Taylor for a day.

Comment by Sean

Sat, 3 Dec 2005 10:38:08 EST

And Marty, for the record, let me say that despite our disagreement here, I have nothing but the highest respect for you and your work. It is because of your efforts that a Jersey Kid got to hear Suicide and Richard Hell and the Fleshtones before he crossed the Hudson River for the first time on his own. In fact, should you be inducted to the RNRHOF, I will maintain radio silence on my criticisms of the place.