I particularly liked the work of the animation team of John Smiths.

It's about time someone further exposed Scientology's more crackpot elements. About fifteen or twenty years ago The Los Angeles Times had a series that detailed all of these "brainwashed alien ghost" beliefs, but I've never seen or heard anyone since then even broach the subject. Go, Team South Park!

Thank you South Park! You guys are the greatest.

don't forget the Jane Smiths too ... very honorable of Parker and Stone to protect the identities of their animation team so they wouldn't be attacked and harassed by the church of $cientology

Suavehouse, those Scientology schmucks have picked the wrong pack to screw with if they start with Trey Parker or any of the crew. I WISH they'd bring the pain. Sonsabitches want a piece of Cartman, do they?

Besides which, Trey Parker will take that pouch of Jew gold that they carry around their necks, and buy every shyster in town to clean their clocks. Something like this would be just exactly what he'd want to have money for.

Or they could go for fisticuffs in the parking lot. These guys would obviously be down with that, too.

Did you REALLY type out fisticuffs?

Al, I swear, someone froze you in 1927 and thawed you out a few years ago for kicks.

Who knows? I suppose the truth is out there and I don't have any reason (proof) to believe any which way about such things. But I do know one thing... The church of Scientology works very hard to improve the IQs of its parishoners. My sister in law improved her IQ by 20 points in about a month just with the Church's Purification Rundown (a sauna, exercise, and vitamin regimen). And I know THAT isn't 'bogus' because I personnally tested Scientologists (Rounded up parishoners and asked them to take and retake the IQ test, delivered the IQ test, graded them myself and then kept the records in my own little office). I was testing Scientologists full time for several months in 1993 and I saw their IQ's continually rise while they were receiving their Auditing and Scientology training in Clearwater, Florida. So when people say that Scientology is 'full of crap' I have to wonder... If the church is just a big money making scam out to brainwash it's members, why would it work so hard to make it's members more intelligent?

Groovy, rockin, yay. Now provide us with some evidence that IQ really means anything at all. And please, where was the test conducted? Was it done by Church members?

And from your confusing "its" and "it's," I'm gonna assume you've not been through this regimen.

Just sayin.

Must...control...IQ of Death...

JC, your arguments are irrelevant to me. It's entirely likely that a good health and meditation regimen will improve your mental functioning, however you measure it. That's not the issue.

Nor is the contents of their ridiculous Xenu story. It's dumb, but so's pretty much every other religion, except for mine of course.

My issue is that they're big hateful ruthless bullies more than willing to walk all over anyone who disagrees with them. For this they need to squashed like insects.

OBRS, what would be the cool word to use rather than "fisticuffs"?

I always find that a good alternative to "engaging in fisticuffs" is to just to swoon with the vapors and call for the smelling salts.

Whereas MY preferred alternative to fisticuffs is an aluminum baseball bat.

You mad, impetuous fool!

I'm a fan of the collapsible baton, myself. It's stylish and portable.

I have enver heard the word "fisticuffs" in my life.

They really can't sue Stone and Parker, because it's an obvious parody.

You should read more, my dear. I don't even have ten years on you and you're making me feel old!

Books, books, books. The world's greatest learning tools.

Howdy, Josh. "Fisticuffs" is a perhaps archaic term for fistfighting. Duking it out in the parking lot.

Perhaps our beloved revolutionary sweetheart Alisha could break down the etymology for you with her collapsible baton, which is an excellent choice: practical, stylish and ladylike.

You wouldn't think the Scientologists have any legitimate ground for a suit, but the thing is that they are known for being extremely legally aggressive. See THIS LINK for background on their history.

Hubbard's stories about Xenu have never been published, obviously, and they are extremely sensitive, as the stories make them look like utter fools to people who have not been heavily indoctrinated for some years.

Among other things, they will claim copyright and trademark violations. They have repeatedly managed to show up at their critics homes with federal marshalls to seize computers and mess up people's lives.

If they do choose to sue the creators of South Park, then it would be like the Al Franken V. Fox case.

Ah, the irony. South Park reveals more truths in its jests than Tom Cruise could reveal by quoting Hubbard-Script. This silly boy has taken such risky business in the kidnap and brainwashing of Ms. Holmes. What's going to happen when she gets de-programmed?

Perhaps our beloved revolutionary sweetheart Alisha could break down the etymology for you with her collapsible baton, which is an excellent choice: practical, stylish and ladylike.

I am nothing if not a lady.

Why would the part with R. Kelly be "of special interest to African-Americans" exactly? Are white people, Asian-Americans, etc. not interested in black celebrities?

Andrew, if you followed the link in the story on the R Kelly thing, it would take you to my notes on The Boondocks on the episode "The Trial of R Kelly." There's a particularly cute bit on the topic quoted when young Master Huey confronts the prosecutor that I specifically had in mind.

Short answer, this particular black celebrity is mostly a big thing among black folk. Everybody's into Cosby, and even a gangsta like Snoop is mostly selling to white kids. Then there are some like Kelly that are, for whatever reasons, primarily of interest to a black audience.

Scientology and it's members are also famous for the use and spreading of
misinformation, especially against those who would oppose or disagree with their belief.
This noted, JCBronson is a brilliant example of either a higher level member trying to
paint a different picture on this discussion -OR- a lower and not so bright member trying
to stick up for big dog.
IQ is not a proven science, it is a minute guideline, scientology even discredits it in
some of their ramblings. The church does nothing to increase or better the brain power of
it's members unless except to strengthen their view of Scientology.

Good piece and review, Al. Happy T day.

Scientology and it's members are also famous for the use and spreading of misinformation, especially against those who would oppose or disagree with their belief.

That's true of most organized religions emanating from Abraham. Christians believe the only way to Heaven is via Jesus Christ. That's a bit of a selfish notion considering the majority of the world is not Christian. Scientologists offer self-loathing people a safe haven from the traditional religions. While it may work for many on the surface; I think that Mr. Cruise's behavior as of late is a clear indication that there's something inherently lacking in Scientology's core. Many celebrities have jumped on the Hubbard train and I have to question the real motivation behind doing so. I suggest that Trey Parker & Co. are not too far off the beaten path. The Church of Scientology affords celebrities an opportunity to escape from their real selves in favor of preserving their Q ratings and marketability. A company by any other name would be Amway, Shaklee or Wal Mart.

Silas, I don't see how Amway or Wal Mart has any comparison here. Those are simply businesses trying to make a buck, not religions deluding people.

I don't so much care that the Scientologists believe a dumbass story about space aliens. That's not inherently any much crazier than the Cat Lickers or the Muslims.

My beef is that they are bullies using intimidation and the law to shut down critics. The Scientologists with their lawyers are not as bad as some of the Muslims with their suicide bombings and such, but they are still not housebroken to be fit to be around civilized people.

And happy turkey day to you too, Mr Butki.

Actually, Al, I find that the Roman Catholic Church has very much in common with Amway and other multi-level marketing companies. Priests are the gold level, bishops are rubies, archbishops are emeralds and the Pope is a diamond. The parishoners are the consumers buying into the hocus pocus doled out by the Latin Church.

I agree on Scientologists and their command of attorneys. They are just as dangerous as Torquemada and the Inquisition in my book. To have that kind of money and power is frightening. Remind me to talk to my auditor as I try to clear myself of Thetans.

Hope you had a great T-Day, Al.

Books are for readers.

One difference between Scientology and every other religion on the planet is that religions do not make secret their theology. They go forth and proclaim it proudly, openly, publicly. It is not a business to them to have such knowledge. Anyone can go to the library and read the bible, Pope Benedict's writings, or any other religious texts. Scientologists make you pay for that work. Why it'd ever be considered a "religion" by anyone is beyond me.

Most religions don't make you "buy" anything. Catholicism most certainly does not, as their numerous saints who were dirt poor can attest to.

I don't think it's fair to criticize religion per se because it holds things to be true based on faith. That would be like criticizing a dog for being a dog. Religion is, what it is. But Scientology is not that, for certain

"Oh, of special interest to African-Americans"

What does that mean, exactly?

Puke, why don't you do the really, really obvious thing, and click through the damned link on those very words you're questioning. Perhaps that would provide some clue as to the meaning, you think?

sydney, the first and foremost reason Scientologists consider their beliefs a religion:

tax-exempt status ;)

Kudos to Parker & Stone. They are powerful enough not to be intimidated by bizarre cults such as Scientology.

I'm delighted when they take on Catholicism, Islam, whatever, but the Scientologist loopers deserve all they get for their litigious, defensive-aggressive defense of nonsense. Xenu my arse.

(PS: 'Kyle's Mom's A BItch' should have got an Oscar for Best Original Song)

I saw the news South Park VS Tom Cruise the idiot. Well that's what I call him. South park makes fun of everyone, all religions, gays, etc.. but most people take it in stride. If Tom don't like the program south park, its called turn the station or turn off the tv, that is what the buttons on the remote are for. I mean no one is making him watch it. Who the hell does Tom Cruise think he is any way F**king God. scientoloy is nothing more than a cult made up by a science fiction writer. And these movies stars who are SUPPOSE!!! to be intelligent actually believe this garbage that scientology puts out...LOL un real. I use to like Tom Cruise, until he turned into a real A hole..we have freedom of speech in this country if Tom don't like it then leave.. or use his remote and turn it off. I feel so sorry for Katie Holmes, she is with a real jerk.

G'day all!
Im a scientologist, I gotta say it did me good, got me off the booze & I am generally happier with myself. Still like agood laigh though.
cheers, glen

Why Glen, you sound like a right reasonable, friendly fellow. Frankly, that's not what I really expect from Scientologists. A few more come a long talking like that, and you might start improving y'alls image.

I'd love to have a Scientologist to represent for you, so you're definitely encouraged to respond to anything here where the spirit moves you.

Do YOU believe this Xenu story, or have you even been officially presented with it through the organization?

This is an issue of free speech. South Park takes free shots at Christianity, Jews and Islam and yet, they get sued/taken off the air for scientology?

South Park should be able to insult anyone they damn well please if they get the ratings.

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
George Orwell

This isn't the first time SP has taken shots at Scientology. Everyone seems to have forgotten the "Blaintologists" episode. That episode was more in line with the other "religious" satires poking subtle fun at scientologists. The biggest difference with this episode that made Isaac Hayes leave (he is a scientologist) is that SP decided to actually dictate and attack the beliefs of others. In red hot catholic love, they don't say "Catholicism is stupid and wrong!" Instead, they took a current topic (priests and boys) and mocked it. I am a Scientologist. I do not believe, nor have I ever heard/read about this "alien myth". Say what you want about a made-up alien myth. Here is what the church of scientology (myself included) stands for and believes in through and through.

I also try and follow the code of a scientologist.

For those of you that think it is a giant rip-off, that is for you to think, but instead of spreading misinformation like Trey and Matt, encourage people to go to the source of the information and make the decision themselves. If you are interested in where a lot of that money that scientologists pay goes, look here.

Sathid, if you learned knowledge past your level you will get sick and die. Elron Hubbard was a con man. Scientology is a cult of weirdo followers.
BRB, someone is knocking at my door....

See and here I read that "Personal attackes are not allowed". *sigh*

Anyone saying such things about *any* religion is just trying to instigate and is usually (and rightly) ignored.

Sathid, (sigh) imagine if you can how impressed I am with a bunch of bullies slapping down anyone who crosses them like the Scientologist organization obviously does then bitching about personal attacks when anyone says anything about it.

Also, "Trapped in the Closet" was in fact largely professional as regards the Scientologists. The heart of it is the Xenu story that they carefully detail. That is totally a straightforward public service.

And I'm really not interested in hearing complaints of "misinformation" about Scientology and the Xenu story, considering how far they've gone to repress the truth. How about the higher ups release all the writings about Xenu so that we can judge for ourselves? Then people can get the story straight, and if they don't then YOU have the documents to show where they're wrong.

As for the personal attack, I was speaking regarding the fact that "Bagel" called me a weirdo cultist, which would bother anyone.

Here is my big peeve with the "misinformation" spread by Trey and Matt. They claimed that the "Xenu story" is what Scientologists believe. I do not believe this, nor do I know of ANYONE else that does. While I may be "lower" on the bridge, I do have a few friends that are at the end or even finished.

My largest objection to all the nay-saying in general is the simple fact that people are attacking a religion that has done no harm and, in fact, has pledged to do all it can to help mankind.

Hey, by the way, how to I put links into a comment 'round here?

[Just use the standard html coding within the more than/less than arrowheads. Thank you. Comments Editor]

Sathid, I challenge your claim that the Church of Scientology has done no harm. I've read WAY too many accounts of heavy handed activity by the church to accept that. The way they have bullied and crushed dissent, and perverted law to punish and stifle critics gives me for one a low opinion of the organization.

You may not believe the Xenu story, but it does appear to be high level church doctrine. Again, the church needs to be releasing these Xenu writings publicly so that we can judge how much "misinformation" Parker and Stone have in fact spread.

The organization has no right at all to bitch about misinformation when they have spent years suppressing the truth. How can we judge?

Also, a lack of perspective seems to be real common amongst your people, like you can't take the least bit of criticism without getting pissy. No, being called a "weirdo cultist" wouldn't bother just anyone. It might depend somewhat on the context, but that's not a particularly harsh slap.

You're personally at least halfway trying to talk sensible up in here though, so I do want to make nice. But grow a little thicker skin, ya know?

Thanks for the understanding.

I guess the "thin skin" comes from too many people coming along and thinking that "weirdo cultist" is an ok thing to call me as a scientologist. Not too many presbyterians (I'm also a member of the presbyterian church) would care much if someone called them a cultist b/c they know that most people agree that they aren't. That wasn't worded well, but do you understand what I mean?

I guess I would want to know what "heavy handed" activity you would be talking about. If it is just the church attempting to defend itself, I don't see it as a problem.

I do know that country after country has had their court system declare Scientology as a bonafide religion (including the US IRS, who is NO friend to the church). They had full access to all files and records, and they all came to the same conclusion.

Did you read my earlier post of the church's creed? If not, I recommend you read it. It really is why I am a Scientologist and defend my beliefs.

Sathid: it can't be wrong to call people who believe in totally unsubstantiated theories "weirdo cultists", it's simply technically accurate.

Given how childish and/or deranged the "ideas" of these faithist cults generally are, it seems an act of massive tolerance on the part of the majority to protect your right to waste your time in such a naive way and ultimately pointless way.

The core ideas aren't that unusual, childish or deranged at all - although the delivered mythology smacks of cheap sci-fi (there's a surprise given Hubbard's background in pulp fiction) that deserves the childish tag.

AFAICT It's standard 'souls fallen into/trapped in the material world' stuff, found in many cults, religions and christian 'heresies'. Deep roots in manicheism, neo-platonism and the like.

Very funny episode though - have they shown it in the US yet?

Mr. Rose, are you a man of no faith? Last time I took philosophy in college it was about world religions and we went over many creation myths and I recall that all of them are "unsubstantiated theories". Again, I reiterate that I DON'T believe that this is Scientology's creation myth. However, I could be wrong and it wouldn't matter.

I say it wouldn't matter because there is more to Scientology than I think most of you know. There is also valuable training in study, communication, business management, ethics and other topics. When I first ran into Scientology, I was like "meh" and didn't care. I then came to work at a school where the study technology developed by Hubbard was used. I learned this study tech and was BLOWN AWAY by the results. Once I saw how well it worked on ALL students and experienced its effectiveness on myself, I knew that there was something to this tech.

Going to church for me is like going back to college. I'm in the middle of a course that gives me all the data regarding this study tech and it consists of all of Hubbard's lectures on the subject.

I could go on with my life story (heh), but I'd rather know that others were interested to read more before I do.

As I understand it, the reason Scientologists don't believe in psychotherapy is that they have their own ways in dealing with mental illness. Most of it has to do with those alien spirits, also known as Body Thetans, who literally possess human beings, and through a lengthy process called auditing, you can clear out the BTs and, I suppose, reclaim your sanity. There's a lot of info out there on the Internet about Scientology, which is worth seeking out. I don't want to include the URLS as it might risk those sites being taken down by the Church of Scientology.

See the reason the church is big on "taking these things down" is becuase it isn't correct data. There is no such thing as a Body Thetan.

You are a Thetan (not an alien in your body). Thetan is what Scientologists call the soul or spirit.

I happen to believe in psychotherapy, but not pharmalogical psychiatry. Psychotherapy is similar to auditing, but auditing is a precise tech with specific results.

Insanity comes from suppression. You seriously can walk into any scientology church and ASK THEM all about this stuff and they will tell you exactly what we know. They will pull out published books and show you any of this data.

Well, it is good to see this small website has been inflitrated by Scientologists. Tell me freako's WHY DOES THE CHURCH SUE ANYONE WHO PRINTS ANY OF THEIR "DOCUMENTS"???? Is Co$ (Church of $cientology) a business or a religion? Why wouldn't you WANT people to put forth their opinions? Surely you have nothing to hide. If the christians can tell us about reincarnation, and buddists about eternity, then why do you supress anyone who exposes the "alien theory"?

You are such frauds.

PS Why do you charge people for "levels"?

Burn Co$

1) This isn't a small website, and I've hardly inflitrated it. I'm just trying to counter-balance the false data with truth from an actual scientologist who has gotten data from the source instead of a pissed off website (i.e. xenu.net)

2) The "alien theory" is suppressed because it was made up by someone mad at the church back in the 80s.

3) The reason unauthorized publishing of church documents is a problem is how can you gaurantee authenticity? How can you be sure someone hasn't modified the text? If you want to read the data, it is already published, and you can go and get the book or lecture at any church's book store.

4) The "levels", as you call them, are only a part of scientology and if you don't want to spend the money, then don't do them. No big deal.

FYI: At www.able.org you might look at the Criminon project (I know, it has a stupid name), since it is now being implemented in all the prisons in Honduras and Indonisia. This was due to the worst of the prisons trying the program out as a test and afterwards having NO cell block violence and almost no criminals returning to jail after release (for those of you that know crime stats, that is amazing).

Sorry I forgot to address Nick's question about wether the church is a business or a religion.

Scientology is a religion and this is backed up by the courts in every country that has had question of this, even in the US, the IRS sezied files from many churches and did their own review, and came to the same conclusion.

Regarding the "cost" to do things in Scientology, churches are supported by their members, just like every other church. Some churches have a system of tithes, others require their members to pay for pew rentals, religious ceremonies and services. In the Church of Scientology, parishioners make donations for auditing or training they wish to receive. The contributions by Scientologists are the primary source of financial support for the Church and fund all religious and social betterment activities the Church engages in. (Did you read about the Volunteer Ministers after Katrina or the tsunami?) Scientologists are not required to tithe or make other donations. Scientology does not have hundreds of years of accumulated wealth and property like other religions (only been around for 60ish years). It must make its way in the world according to the economics of today's society. When one considers the cost of ministering even one hour of auditing, requireing extensively trained specialists, and the overhead costs of maintaining church premises, the necessity of donations becomes clear. The Church selected the donation system as it primary method of funding because it is the most equitable method. Those who use the facilities of the church should be the ones to contribute most to its maintenance. Of course, no donation is expected from members who are at the church to participate in services other than auditing and training-listening to tapes of lectures, reading in the library, receiving counseling from the Chaplain or attending sermons, weddings, christenings and funerals.

Whoa, sorry that was WAY wordy, but I think I completely answered the question.

Sathid, I have to at least partway back you on costs and charging money. It does cost money to live, and even if they're totally sincere, full time staff of the church have to make a living. Plus, if they're actually doing someone some good, then why is it wrong to expect them to contribute? You might wish to invoke the Biblical wisdom that you should "bind not the mouth of the oxen that treads the grain."

However, I'ma have to go ahead and disagree with you on this statement "The "alien theory" is suppressed because it was made up by someone mad at the church back in the 80s." Frankly, this doesn't make any sense.

Now, YOU may not have been presented with the Xenu story. It's understood that it's secret, and only somewhat higher ups in the organization are privvy to it.

But this Xenu story certainly IS some part of church beliefs. Note that the church doesn't deny the story. They won't quite acknowledge it, either, cause they don't really want to admit to it.

But if the Xenu stuff was just made up by a disgruntled ex-member, it would be easy enough for the church to knock it down. Publicly release all relevant documents, with a clear statement from the church. It could be "No, Hubbard never wrote anything like that." or "The Xenu story was just a science fiction thing, cause Hubbard was also a sci fi writer."

But the fact that under the scrutiny they face they still don't open up strongly suggests that the stories about the church believing in this alien story are true.

But even that isn't necessarily so exceptionally bad. I've heard some hints of church types wanting to frame the Xenu story alongside the equally unlikely sounding Christian creation story. The only reason Xenu sounds crazy and Yahweh sounds respectable is that it's way older. We're familiar with Hubbard's human failings, but we don't even know who wrote Genesis.

And no, I ain't having any of someone bitching about you "infiltrating" our poor little website. We have open comments, and I for one value your contributions to this discussion. Thank you.

Indeed, PLEASE invite your brother Scientologists to come here and join this discussion. I'm pretty skeptical of the organization and what I know of your beliefs, but I also recognize that the wider public debate has been significantly one sided. I'll tend to fault Scientologists on that for being secretive, and not doing a good job of making their case.

A simple way to start balancing that would be for some of your members to come into open forums like this and explain yourselves, as you have been doing here. Thanks again for your contributions to this discussion.

I agree, Al, that I don't think Scientologists promote as much as they should, at least on the Internet. I'm not entirely sure why they don't do more to make known all the good we do in the real world.

I have to admit that I might be totally wrong about the Xenu story. If the church doesn't deny the story, then Hubbard might have actually written it and believed it himself (or something like it). That is what is so great about Scientology is that I don't have to believe it and there is nothing wrong with that. One of the most important scriptual work written by Hubbard was one called "Personal Integrity". I found a link to it on an official church site

It pretty much spells it out there. ;)

The reason people get so irritated and enraged by Co$ is because of the underhanded and shady ways they go about their business). I have been to a Scientology "Church", admittedly with a cynical mind (not as cynical as now though) and found the whole thing to be a farce. I went with a friend (who had never heard of Co$ before) after some Co$ staff spoke to us near a Co$ in Madrid. We followed them in for our "free introductory video" and were sat in a cinema to watch it by ourselves. I thought letting us see it in private was a nice touch and not too pushy. That was until the video actually began.

The Co$ video spent the bulk of its time talking about how Co$ is legit. To be honest with you, I find this very strange. Christianity, Buddism, Islam, Hindu and even small religions like Falun Gong spend their time preaching, not proving their credentials to preach. I think that Co$' preoccupation with proving their religious status goes way over the top. They happily told us about how Co$ is a religion in Australia as with the UK etc... etc... etc... I am not sure about everyone else, but I dont think that tax purposes are the most important way to dictate a "religion".

I think that the way the Christian Church and others profit from their masses is wrong too, but to me Co$ seems to be BY FAR the most business minded religion of all.

The High Court of Australia (the highest court in Australia) held that Scientology IS a religion. HOWEVER, the headnote of the case (reported in Australian Law Reports 49 A.L.R. 65) did make this comment which I would LOVE a response to:

- The Church of the New Faith Incorporated (the taxpayer) was incorporated in 1969 in South Australia and was registered as a foreign company in Victoria. Its objects were the presentation, practice and propagation of Scientology -- a body of teachings promulgated by L Ron Hubbard. As originally presented the organisation did not seek to place any relevance in its own teachings on religion in the commonly accepted sense of a deity to whom prayers were addressed and the holding of meetings for the purpose of worship. Following decisions of various courts throughout the world that the body was not a church, its approach was varied and its procedures then more closely followed those adopted in conventional churches. It sought exemption from pay-roll tax on the basis that it was a religious institution entitled to the exemption given to such bodies. -



At the end of the introductory video (which OH MY GOD, told us at the end something like this: "you can walk out of this presentation and decide never to come back to Scientology, then again you could jump off a bridge or blow your brains out") we went out into the main area of the Co$ and were told that we needed to read certain books to get a better idea of the religion. We were travelling at the time, and looked and smelt accordingly gross, I asked could we have a copy and was told that we should pay for it. I explained that we had little money (no lie), but could we just take a book to share between us(not a big or flashy book). NO was the resounding reply. I explained that I was very lost and felt Co$ could help me, but the staffer was unbending. Now, I am SURE that if I went to a Mosque or Christian Church (or EVEN THE HARE KRISHNAs) I would get some literature to peruse at my leisure FOR FREE! Not Co$, they want your dollars from the get-go. Don't feed me that "poor religion" crap, they have a standing fucking navy for Christs sake (deliberate religious reference), and a Celebrity Centre! Surely instead of pandering to "stars" like Cruise and the gifted Jenna Elfman, they would want to spread the word to the masses. No, that is not the case.

And by the way, what is with the Co$ navy? Tell us the truth, because it is easily investigated, I want to hear your explanation.


Co$ is a cult, they may be religious for the purposes of tax-assessment, that is fine, but it is a cult of brainwashing and is a big money making organisation. It is the underhanded manner with which it conducts itself (ie, the Narconon debacle) which leaves a bitter taste. Oh, and the alien thing is some wacked out shit...


I know this post is long. sorry, but Co$ are a tenacious bunch

OK, where do I begin...

I also thought the intro movie was a bit silly when I first watched it, and I guess a pile of people don't think it is a religion. :) *ahem* So, the authors of the movie decided to make it clear that many countries (maybe all?) accept Scientology as a religion.

I'm not sure I see a problem with a church being run as a successful business, so I'm not sure what to say to that, other than I'm sorry that you don't agree with the church's style of administration.

Oh yea, and the end of the movie was pretty ridiculous, but it is just a movie. It isn't how I would have done it, but whatever. A movie about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc isn't what you would judge the whole of a religion on, right?

Regarding the book, that was up to the person you were talking to. If you had spoken to someone else, he/she might've decided to buy the book for you. I do know that there is some free books called, "The Way to Happiness" and you can get that for free at any church. You might take a look at it.

I can't say that I'm a history expert on the church (I've only been a member for a year or so). So I won't be much help on the Australian legal headnote, but from reading it, it seems like the church added services like Sunday service to conform to a more mainstream feel, which appeased those that claimed it wasn't a religion. But again, I have no idea on this one.

The "Navy" you refer to is the Sea Org. Those people are the infrastructure that keeps the church going. They are the "nuns" and "monks" of Scientology. There is only one boat (as far as I know) called the Freewinds, so it is hard to call them part of a "Navy".

I have no idea where the brainwashing idea comes from, can you give me an example? Also, I'm wondering what you are talking about in regard to the "Narcanon debacle".

Looking at my post, I guess I didn't answer a lot of your questions as well as you'd probably like, but I can't say that I'm running the church.

I'm a Scientologist, I believe that some ideas and works of Hubbard can better my life and so far they have. I'm going to keep on my track of this until I run into a reason not to.

I'd compare some of this to a Catholic in Kansas City being asked how are things being run in the Vatican. ;)

sathid, you are a reasonable guy/girl. I just dont like what i have seen but mostly HEARD/READ about Scientology. If you follow it and it is good for you then great. I think I probably thought you were a Co$ staffer on here posting (you may be, I dont know) so I went for the jugular. If the religion works for you, great. I just hope they aren't raping your bank balance at the same time.

Out of interest, how much have you spent on Co$ so far? What level are you?

What is with the Billion year contracts Co$ gets people to sign?


So I take it you dont believe in the alien shit? Dont ever. Till they land.

cheers, nick

Sorry for the delay in response to you kind words Nick, but school just started back up from Spring Break and I was very busy.

To answer your last couple of questions:

1. My wife and I have bought two complete packages where instead of paying auditors a pile of money, we get trained as auditors ourselves and audit each other. This is many years worth of training, and I've gained a lot so far even though I'm still on the first course, so I think it was a wise investment. I won't lie, it was more than $20k and less than $30k (I don't feel that I should give the exact amount, but this is close enough), and that is quite a lot of money (but FAR less than paying an auditor for both my wife and I to "go up the levels").

2. The billion year contract is only for those that wish to join the Sea Org (that I mentioned in the last post) and it is just a symbolic figure to show devotion. Similar to monks and nuns that take a lifetime vow. The big difference is that Sea Org members still get to date, screw and marry as they see fit. ;)

Agreed, I won't believe until I see it (as Hubbard directed to do in Personal Integrity--see above link in previous post).

I did sociology, and a part i found highly interesting was on cults and new religious movements, and did some research on Scientology during this. I read the OT literature, Dianetics, and some of his scifi. My base position is a cult is just a religion you dont like...enough background, on to my experience:

I also went for personality testing, and the meter reading, but due to asking sceptical questions was muscled out of the roomby a burly 'clear'. In hindsight, it would have been amusing to sue for assault, since he was pretty vigorous in chucking me out before i could spread dissent and scepticism.


Admittedly, I am a fairly sarcastic cynic; I guess it must have shown.


Anyway,my 2c on the matter is, following Ken Wilber's slogan, no one is smart enough to be 100% wrong. I'm sure Scientology has some intersting mental techs that help people.Any organization that survives has to. And the Scientology episode wasnt realy that funny, more pedagogically ramming a point home.

But, if the information isnt accurate, they should sue. And win. If they don't, its true. And if so , the general public deserve to know.

I know my small experience was one of strict control and hostile efficiency. I tend to believe the xenu/clambake crowd, given the legal behaviour of scientology. If Scientology is innocent, disclosure cannot harm them, and the libel laws protect them. If they are not, is is the rest of society which needs protection....

Luganda, thank you for your scouting report on the Scientologists. Any religious group that is that crappy about skeptics who want to check them out must have things to hide, I say.

It's been six months since this show first broadcast, and I note the distinct lack of legal action from the Scientologists. Even these crazy thuggish schmucks apparently have some clue how badly such a thing would likely turn out for them.

Only thing they've mangaged to do is to get Isaac Hayes to quit them. Doesn't help the Scientologist cause, but at least they were able to spite Parker and Stone a bit.

aernt religions just dandy?

Scientology is a scam. People that believe in it are stupid. There's a reason they ask you to spend sooo much money. When you walk into a church of scientology, can you get free preaching? free books? NO! When you walk into a church ( any christian church ) you'll be given many preachings, also when I went to a place where budhists worship, I was invited to meditate with them, and you know the best part? I didn't have to spend 30,000 dollars!

This was probably my favorite South Park episode. I didn't know much about Scientology before I saw this episode a few nights ago. I thought it was so funny how they dragged Tom Cruise and John Travolta into this (and R. Kelley with making fun of his 'Closet' single). I now realize how much of a money-mkaing obbsessed cult the Church of Scientology is. Once again, South Park has taken a serious issue and found the best way to make fun of it!

This was one of the most important pieces of television this decade. If it stopped just one person from joining this intolerable cult of thieves, bullies and murderers then Parker and Stone's efforts and, above all, bravery will have been justified. I've been through the test and the one thing they fear most is an intelligence-backed sense of free-will. The goon who addressed me (post-test results) in his mock-Naval uniform perceived he had an air of authority until he heard my clear, frank and forthright opinions on their methods. That was in Manchester (Deansgate) back in 1990, long before i was aware of the controversy surrounding the cult but i was alert and ready to tackle the poor freaks.

This was television satire par excellence and something to be treasured and talked about for many years to come. Well done boys..!

I used to find South Park hilarious until they made an insult about homeschooled children not being socialized properly. Homeschooled is the old name, its actually private-schools under state law. I grew up in a family with a father who has been a commercial graphic artist for over 27 years and counting and if it were not for his time of homeschooled work he would not have joined the navy or become a commercial artist.

I'm sure south park could have made this funnier if they would have turned it around as the the public school children having inproper socilization. Usually the day goes like this "shut up!" "No talking!" "Sit Still!" Wow great social skills...not!

Cara, if South Park doesn't piss you off from time to time, then Matt and Trey are slipping. The fact that some of the jokes reflect beliefs that you disagree with doesn't make them not funny. It would be more indicative of the limits of your personal sense of humor. I'm sure Tom Cruise didn't appreciate this Scientology episode and I know Isaac Hayes didn't dig it - but that sure doesn't mean that it wasn't funny.

Also though, you're being WAY overly sensitive on this home schooling episode. It's not like they were really negative and anti-home schooling. The home schooled kids in the episode were presented as way academically advanced over their publicly schooled counterparts. Plus, they were very nice and largely well-behaved children. Neither the children nor their parents were presented in a substantially negative light.

But you're kidding yourself if you pretend that there are no legitimate issues about home schooling having some negative impact on socialization. If your school day is your brothers and your mom and that's it, then you're missing out on some stuff.

However, you do have a perfectly good point about government schools not necessarily being a good model for optimum healthy socialization. That's fair enough. Still, consider that the social skills and interactivity work around a lot of institutional foolishness just by being together all day, despite administrative nonsense.

Plus, consider that a lot of the most valuable socialization of school isn't in the classroom, but on the playground. The kids of South Park get most of their social learning fumbling around at recess - certainly not from anything that Mr Garrison is telling them.