Shannon,

I hear the pack wolves coming to get you too, quick circle the wagons.

--Rich

good job. no one can touch sheehan because she is a private citizen expressing her views which is her right. anyone complaining needs to be asked why if they have som much free time and they back this war, "why havent they signed up, why havent their kids signed up."

if you have the time to counter protest cindy and you are so pro war, get the george bush yellow streak off your back and join up and stop working on "political campaigns" like the coward we have for a president did.

>>Appalling. Disgusting. Incredibly fucking sick. This is the state of our country today. Bush's henchmen are now threatening to arrest Cindy Sheehan unless she leaves Crawford, TX immediately...
I had just heard Sheehan interviewed on Air America Radio at the time. I don't recall reading or seeing anything about her in the mainstream media before that. And I was angry...so angry. What I wrote above was a visceral, gut reaction. It continued to burn me...for example:<<

And did it anger you when you found out that she'd lied about this threat to arrest her, that it was all a figment of her imagination or perhaps made up by her publicist and that no such threat had ever been made? Because THAT should anger you even more - because you were manipulated and made part of her hate machine by that lie.

Dave

Supporters of war in Iraq should be on front lines

So let me get this straight - the United States government took the only secular country in the Middle East and turned it into an Islamic republic? The United States government installed and supported Saddam Hussein for decades; the same goes for Osama bin Laden. It's been 1,435 days since President Bush said he'd catch bin Laden dead or alive. Our government lied to start an illegal, pre-emptive war of conquest. The "we are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" argument is going to look pretty stupid after the next terrorist attacks. So now we are fighting for freedom. When the war started in Iraq, most UNM students were in the silent majority that supported the war. Those who were not were gassed, maced and shot at with pepper balls. The silent majority has a lot of blood on its hands. If you support the war in Iraq, what are you still doing here? Go defend Israel and big oil: 1-800-USA-ARMY.

"Supporters of war in Iraq should be on front lines" by Crusader

Supporters of the war in Iraq ARE on the front lines. The troops in Iraq do support the war. Over 90% of them voted to reelect Bush. And most of the people that join the military are conservatives.

The minute MoveOn got involved in the Cindy Sheehan Show I took the whole damn thing with a grain of salt. I sympathize with her. She lost her son and no mother should ever bury their child. In that grief she has become the poster woman for the extreme left. In that same grief she has become the Anti-Christ for the extreme right. And what has been forgotten --- her son's rotting corpse that lays in the ground.

Look, I hate the fact we're in Iraq. I hate the fact that we may have been misled. But the fact remains, we are there. Two thousand Americans have lost their lives since the ultimate sacrifice of September 11th. We're there, let's get the job done. If the Iraqi people choose to take this opportunity for real democracy and twist it into some perverse, cruel theocracy - it is their choice. Then we should just bomb the hell out of the country and build a Wal-Mart in Baghdad.

So no accountability goes with the freedom of speech? If you've been Dowdified with "Moral Authority", you can do or say whatever the hell you want? Somehow I missed that part of the Constitution.

BTW, the effort to shift attention off of Cindy is an effort to shift attention from the hate she spews. Where's the "democrat" politicians? Why aren't they squatting in a ditch or erecting crosses on public property?
How can you oppose the war if you haven't been there and don't know what the hell's going on? You know you don't want the war supporters to enlist because you know damn well that you will be proven even more wrong.

The hate she spews? Jesus, have you no compassion at all for this woman. Her child, the boy she carried for nine months, is dead. As far as I am concerned, and I know this sounds cruel, I hope every conservative son of a bitch who has vilified Cindy Sheehan lives to bury one of their own children. Then let's see what the reaction will be! I don't necessarily agree with what Ms. Sheehan is doing but I respect her loss.

"Somehow I missed that part of the Constitution."

Constitution

"the freedom of speech shall not be infringed"


how'd you miss that one fascist? she isnt running to be head of the catholic church, so who cares what your opinion is of her?

Dave, ol' pal -- you know I was part of the "hate machine" long before she rolled into town ;)

(Look out! My sarcasmotron is on! -- as they'd say over at Bitch, Ph.D -- anyway, clever PR or no, she's certainly served as a catalyst for further thought, which is not always the case with in-the-news-gone-tomorrow stories)

"If the Iraqi people choose to take this opportunity for real democracy and twist it into some perverse, cruel theocracy - it is their choice. Then we should just bomb the hell out of the country and build a Wal-Mart in Baghdad."

Hoo boy, Silas. Don't give the Administration any ideas...

I just thought I'd throw that out there to be digested, Shannon. When Iraq does turn into a theocracy we should just impose economic sanctions. Oops, we can't do that. Halliburton and several oil companies would lose too much money. I wonder if anyone would object to Uncle Sam installing Reza Pahlavi, Jr. as Shah of Iraq?

Left wing commies calling Bush a coward. You dumbasses had not trouble voting for draft dodging Clinton twice. Hypocrisy is par for the course in liberal America. Cindy Sheehan lost her son in Iraq..yes this is a terrible thing for a paren to have to experience...however that does not make her perfect..it does not mean the rest of us as american citizens have no right to ever question anything she may do or say. lots of other parents who have lost children in iraq have come out against cindy sheehan... but does the mainstream media cover those individuals? no because the MSM is a mouthpiece for the far left in this country and so isn't cindy sheehan..she's an anti semitic, america bashing pinhead..no wonder her husband and his family don't want to have anything to do with her.. you commie sons of bitches will never win.. no matter how hard you try......all your attempts to introduce socialism and communism into this country will fail.. this is america...... capitalism and kicking ass are the names of the game.......if you don't like it get the fuck out........move to france with all the other socialist, beret wearing, surrender monkies...... if you people had been around in 1941 we'd all be speaking german now........fact is the majority of the american public has had enough and your leftist attempts to destroy evrything decent, moral and traditional about america won't be tolerated anymore

"fact is the majority of the american public . . ."

and this is reflected how? by bush's 33% Iraq approval rating? sorry, you are in the minority.

Billy, based on the approval rating Cindy Sheehan was getting for her activities I'd say the American people are just as fed up with her and her socialist controllers as they are with Bush. Maybe you should decide whether you're on their side of if it's time for you to start thinking for yourself and join us here in the rational middle.

Dave

Oh, red, you've made my point. We need to educate our children, especially in the red states! Grammar, punctuation and basic spelling all seem to be lacking.

Hypocrisy is par for the course in liberal America.

Sweetie, it is par for the course in ALL of America. Don't kid yourself. We're all hypocrites at one time or another. It's just that the ones with courage will admit it.

...no because the MSM is a mouthpiece for the far left in this country and so isn't cindy sheehan...

I guess you don't watch FOX News or some of the MSNBC programming. Don't they have it available in Pigeon Hollow?

..cindy sheehan..she's an anti semitic, america bashing pinhead...

My Country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of illiteracy...

...move to france with all the other socialist, beret wearing, surrender monkies...

So what is the difference between being anti-Semitic and a Franco-phobe? Does one not like borscht while the other hates cream puffs? What's wrong with wearing a beret? Are you making fun of the Green Berets? They are some of the greatest servants of America! How dare you pick on people who wear berets! And, I've never met a socialist Green Beret. Take that back, right now. By the way, the plural of monkey is monkeys.

....fact is the majority of the american public has had enough...

You are so right, my love! It's time to bring decency back to government! It's time to be moral and accept all people regardless of gender, race, religion, political indoctrination, sexuality or in your case, mental incapacity. The American Public has had enough and we're rising, my friend. We're opening our eyes and we're seeing the truth. The American tradition IS to stand up and question the government. The American tradition is to seek the truth and insure the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You, my friend, are the enemy of democracy. Deep down I think you wish we were all speaking German.

Cindy Sheehan "far from perfect?" Cindy Sheehan an anti-semite? She's a pinhead? She "spews hate?"

People, People. There is something in the study of logical debate known as an argument ad hominem, or an "argument to the person". And that would be opposed to an argument to the point. This phrase refers to the slippery technique of attacking the messenger, rather than engaging the message. This is also known as "Rovian Debate," a technique of evasion made popular by the current White House Deputy Chief of Staff.

See, if a person has a point, the point stands, regardless of whether or not they live the truth of what they say, or if they happen to be a gutless, commie, furry-nosed, half-alligator, ex-con. Truth remains truth, regardless of the shape of the envelope, or the grime clinging to it. And the truth is, there are a lot of questions about the honesty of this administration. Trust me I have a lot more to say than that, but I would hope that a reasonable Republican can agree to even that much, right? There remain a lot of unanswered questions about the way we went to war. And those questions won't go away. And We the People will demand they be answered. Don't all of us want to know the truth? Or are some of us afraid to ask questions that cast Mr. Bush in a negative light?

There are some serious, serious questions about the integrity of this administration. And there is an ugly indisputable truth about the reason we were given for even considering attack a country that did not attack us: It doesn't exist anymore. The reason we were given does not exist. Oh, sure, like a cancer, it has mutated and then, once malignant, metastasized. Sure, carry the your debate to the SHEEHAN monster you love to hate. But let's not forget that the reason there are 2,000 people protesting the war down in Texas of all places, is because those questions the Right is running away from have a life of their own.

That is why Cindy Sheehan is a name that we all know. And that is why even if she doesn't go back to Texas, the fight to know truth will live on. Whether or not it is her face on the poster, or someone else's, is not relevant.

And to the author of the article, thank you for posting a reminder. These are important. You are right. This is much larger than Cindy Sheehan. This is exactly as big as our nation, and the pride we want to have in it.

>>Don't all of us want to know the truth? Or are some of us afraid to ask questions that cast Mr. Bush in a negative light? <<

Go ahead and ask all the questions you want that cast the president in a negative light, but don't start whining when people ask similar questions about Cindy Sheehan and her controllers.

Dave

Dave:

Cindy Sheehan doesn't make policy for our country. And I will continue to question Bush's policies, not his personality. Can you discern the distinction I am making?

Of course. But Cindy Sheehan is a public, political figure now, and she has policy positions and an agenda she supports. That being the case she's as valid a target for criticism as Bush, Bin Laden or Pat Robertson.

Dave

The difference between Cindy Sheehan and George W. Bush is that President Bush was elected by the people to be our Head of State. In so doing he is accountable to each and every American. THAT, my friends, is the American Way! I fully agree that there are many questions that must be answered by this administration. Unfortunately, I don't trust anyone within the walls of the White House to give an accurate and fair accounting. With the departure of Colin Powell, any hope of decency and accountability from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue was lost.

But Cindy Sheehan's crass behavior, her right to protest or to criticize the government, and her emotional state is being attacked. That is irrelevant and juvenile.

Bush, our president, is being singled out for his misinformation, for his reasoning for taking our country to war on manipulated intelligence, etc, etc ad infinitum.

It is ridiculous to pretend not to understand the difference.

Silas, every one of us is always accountable to everyone else for their actions. Most of the time it's irrelevant, but when you're a public figure or when your actions cause direct harm to others, then you're brought to account either in the court of public opinion or in a court of law. That's the way it works in America.

Cindy Sheehan, no matter what others may think, remains 100% responsible for her own actions and statements and should be held accountable for them - whether that makes her a hero, a villain or just a dupe.

Dave

On that point I will concede, Dave. At least you can say, "Mission Accomplished!"

My mission is never accomplished, Silas, because it's I ride on an eternal cycle.

Dave

Christopher Hitchens: Cindy Sheehan disingenuous in denying writing that son died for Israel in Iraq

You might want to access the 'Comments' section via clicking on the 'Comments' link near the bottom of the following URL as well:

Cindy Sheehan disingenuous in denying writing that son died for Israel in Iraq


Sibel Edmonds

JRH...................

Cindy Sheehan said "America is waging nuclear war in Iraq."

That's a direct quote.

I think I'll stand by my "pinhead" remark.

red stater, are you dumb? our bullets are made from depleted uranium. why dont you educate yourdelf before you make stupid statements?

You talking about those tank bullets, doctor?

Billy, our bullets are mostly made from bismuth.

Depleted uranium is used in the shell casings of artillery rounds.

Why don't you educate yourself before you make stupid statements?

In addition, the phrase 'nuclear war' means using nuclear weapons in a war, not using weapons which have heavy metals related to those used in nuclear weapons as construction components.

Do you even know what depleted uranium is or why it's a health hazard? It's not terribly radioactive. It's a health hazard in the same way that mercury or lead is - because it's a heavy metal - which is why we use bismuth bullets now, btw. The danger from depleted uranium comes only if it is ingested in large quantities or entered directly into the bloodstream. Depleted uranium is used as a casing material because of its mass and maleability, not because it's inherently dangerous.

The UN did extensive studies on DU rounds used in Kosovo, and the only cases of poisoning have been when it gets into the ground water or directly into the bloodstream - like from shrapnel. The only documented cases I know of where Iraqis have been poisoned by uranium is when some villagers stole a truckload of yellocake containers (some of that WMD material that some think wasn't in Iraq) and dumped them out to use to hold water which was then contaminated by radioactive uranium traces.

Dave

Kudos to you for putting Billy in his place.

Do you think sheehan was referring to depleted uranium bullets Billy?

who cares? why havent you signed up for the war coward? are you voting for sheehan for something and need to clarify her position or is it just your mo to slander military families?

>>who cares?<<

People who don't like to see lies and propaganda go unchallenged care. I might ask you why you don't care enough to actually know the facts and tell the truth?

>> why havent you signed up for the war coward? <<

Perhaps because we live in a free country where he doesn't have to? At least until the democrats institutionalize military slavery with a draft.

Dave

Shouldn't it be pointed out that Sheehan's son (God rest his soul) was an Amercian military volunteer?

Why did he volunteer?

What motivates volunteerism?

Was he coerced into volunteering?

Did he have his own mind?

Make his own decision?

I respect that. I love him for that. We owe him for that.

Billy, shut up and go to bed. Jesus Christ you fuckin screw yourself sideways in every fuckin debate you attempt. You are to fuckin emotional. Take up smokin or ritilan or some shit. Christ.

Why aren't you on the front lines? Don't go calling people cowards, when you don't even know their backgrounds.

And don't start that silly shit with me, I've been there and done that, got the fuckin T-shirt, wore the T-shirt out and now use it apply wax on my car.

I think that there Pete fellow made a mind boggling point. Sheehan's son WAS a volunteer.

So has everyone else been since the early 70's when the draft ended.

Do you have any clue to the support/line ratio of people in combat positions? It's like 10 to 1. It takes 10 people to support 1 on the front. We're talking logisitcs, medical, transportation, supply, maintenence, training... all that shit.

If you join the military, you have 1 in 10 odds of making it to the front. Unless you specifically tailor your MOS to a front line position.

I know, I'm out, did my 6 and AMF. Bitter? No, just time to move along. Made it out okay, had a good experience. Worked my ass off.

Front line troop? Me? No. I was in the AOR -- Diesel mechanic. Engines are everywhere, and need repair. Sorry, I'm not a war hero or shooter or none of that shit, but I had a job to do, which needed doing, and I did it. No fuckin biggie Billy.

"Who dreams up those memes?"

In the case of the kittens, it was the Poor Man, in a post that regrettably vanished when he switched servers. I then did one around the time of the Amnesty International brouhaha, when something like the 8th post on that topic appeared on my group blog, and I was too annoyed to write anything straight about it. Then, I did this one, for similar reasons, and the Poor Man retaliated, and there we are.

Since you asked ;)

I would really like for all of you to take a long look at this e-mail.

Everyday, there is something on the news about this woman. She seems very upset and wants answers. Well, now that Rev. Sharpton is in the picture, she will never be at ease. This is all hyped up trash that really pisses 'True' soldiers off. We fight, in one way or another, every single day out here and you hvae the nerve to side with that woman. Truth be told, her son made his choice to enlist. He made his choice to put on his uniform and wear it with pride. Her son is an adult. Free to make up his own mind, he served his country. Her son is a hero for that.

Mrs Sheehan.....Have closure and let your sons memory be one of good times and happy moments. Do not use this war to drag your sons deceased name through the mud. Your son died. Many families have had loved ones die during this war.

I have served in this war. I am continuing to serve in this war. I have seen both ends of a rifle and have though of only one thing......

My God, My Life, My Country, My Corps........

I am on the front lines. I have been on the back lines. My wife stands beside me and honors the very uniform I wear. Our children will one day look at me and know that their daddy is a hero. If that day is not to happen, only the Lord will then take me home.......

For all you protesters......Remember Sept 11th and what happened ? Do you rememeber all the things that took place right after that. Didn't the President have overwelmingly favorable odds to go to war after the scum that did this horrible act......You were part of the group. Do not pick and choose. Be a man and stand up for the choice you made. Do not be a coward and 'change your mind' just to jump on the bandwagon....Do not be a bigot and stand for the war when in secret you tell your friends you oppose it.

What if all the troops came home. What if you all got your wish and everthing was back to as normal as you could live it. What if.........

What if then, it happened again, another strike on US soil. What will you do then. Will you realize that you made a huge fucking mistake by bringing the soldiers home. Would you then realize you could have prevented this by having to get your fucking way. What then will you do.........

Do you remeber Vietnam. I can, in no way, compare the two. We lost many lives during that conflict. Honorable lives who are still remembered to this day. Do you recall the numbers of total loss of life.....I am not sure you do not. 58,156 (give or take) lifes were lost. During this war, 1000-2000 lifes have been lost. War is an ugly picture. No man ever wants to go to war. And if he does, then he needs some help. We all do our job according to the orders that have been given to us. Now, I was used to being given the orders to carry out missions. Now I give the orders to the next guy.

You see Mr. Activist or protester, you are nothing to me. When all is said and done, the only thing the you protesters will have is that you stood up to the president. Me, I will have the honor of remembering that I beat the shit out of you while defending my president......

The late Hoyt Axton once referred Americans in song as " freckle faced, tee-shirted, milk drinkin babies, who never have ever seen fire in the skies. "
It was a Viet Nam era song which, with the notable exceptions of Pearl Harbor and 9-11, was, and is, very true.
As I read this blog I am struck by the bile that issues forth from those so insulated by the sacrifice of others.
The very fact that we have access to this technology bears witness to our relative wealth and freedom.
Cindy sacrificed nothing, her son did.
Yet she seeks to diminish that sacrifice by empowering those who would gleefully take the lives of those who still serve.
We all saw her smiling as she was carried carefully away from the protest by those who also choose to serve.
She risks nothing, yet thinks little of those who risk everything.
The world is indeed watching...watching us crumble in our resolve, like the spoiled and coddled children we have become.
Our enemy not only counts on this, but predicted it.
When next we see fire in the skies, I for one will hold Cindy and her handlers accountable.

"Appalling. Disgusting. Incredibly fucking sick. This is the state of our country today. Bush's henchmen are now threatening to arrest Cindy Sheehan unless she leaves Crawford, TX immediately..."

Your whole argument, of course, hinging on these completely untrue statements from Sheehan who no one had ever threatened to arrest. Well, at least until she was arrested today in New York for failing to get a permit for a protest in Union Square.

Vox

Marine for Life:

"My God, My Life, My Country, My Corps........"

That's actually four things, not one thing.

To question the motivations of the politicians who call soldiers away from their families to serve and perhaps die, can in no way denigrate that service. The business of a soldier is not to ask why, but to do or die.

There is no evidence to suggest that Iraq sponsored or trained any of the 9/11 terrorists. Neither is there any evidence that Iraq possessed the weapons of mass destruction whose presence was the sole justification for our invasion. History will likely show that the invasion of Iraq was more opportunistic and pre-emptive than reactive to any tangible, direct threat to the security of the United States.

That's what I get for reading DailyKos. Sheehan was apparently actually arrested in DC, not in New York.

Vox

redstater........

You must be kidding, right? You feel vindicated that you can state with confidence that Cindy sheehan is a pinhead because she says we are "waging nuclear war in Iraq?"

Okay, fair enough. I'll go along with that. "Pinhead." There, done. You are right. She is correct in many of the things she says, but I would venture that based on the statement you have offered, she may have flitted into the moth-balled corridors of Pinheadville.

Hungry for truth? Me, too. And that was barely a snack. Calling out a woman who is mad with grief and injustice and powerless to stop a lying ruler who put her son in harm's way unnecessarily is but a crumb of satisfaction, when it comes to defining and understanding our environment.

Let's move on to something more substantial. Let's talk about the president of this country. Let's look at his quotes, his use of words, his use of "facts." Boy, oh, boy. What a fun conversation this will be. Because it means very, very little to me if a citizen in Texas or Virginia or California is a pinhead--when the most she can wave around is a bullhorn or a sign.

When the "most powerful man in the free world" is a dolt (pick your adjective: moron; fool; simpleton; uneducated, unenlightened, bumbling ass)? Well, then. That would have much more dire consequences, and thus, be worthy of more discussion and emotion. We can walk away from the Sheehan argument, as you can see. Yet, when one's President is a witless individual, the discussion remains, and keeps sprouting heads, like hydra. If one's President were a fool, well, that would lead to all sorts of disaster....like war, people starving, the wrong priorities being made with money, lives, and resources. This is why, I reiterate, the former situation is hardly worth arguing over. And the latter remains a dark, rotted, etching in the still-growing tree of our everyday life. These lies of the administration, this death and destruction they have wrought; these "pinheads" that are sapping away the dignity, self-respect, and integrity of America...they are a rot we need to burn away, scrape away, bury and leave behind, so we can begin to heal, and become the great country we are, underneath their taint.

"Pinhead." Man. I don't even know what lexicon would be suffiicient to adequately name the current amoebic presence clinging to Pennsylvania Avenue.

Sheehan's 15 minutes are over. Stop oggling the trainwreck. Move along.

Dave

sez the pot, to the kettle

these "kids" join our military, their parents DO NOT send them or sign them up, you morons. have a clue. yes, i did try to join up after 9-11 but age was a factor. when will you pacifists realize that the terrorist want to kill our entire way of life and started long before bush was ever elected? our world has changed and it is time for us to stand up, suppor tour military snd KILL the terrorist. yes fools, i said KILL them. don't capture them, don't reason with them and do not show them any human rights whatsoever. power is the only thing they understand and being a martyr is their way to Allah Who, by the way, has promised to get them laid (in their minds)! you want to reason with them? go over there to the middle east and have a LOVE ceremony. al queda would love to use that for their telecasts around the world.

tc. Well stated. Nuke the unborn ignorant American. It will happen as sure as the golden arches sell those wonderful french fries.