Oh, Adam - I was with you until that disastrous last line. "Porn," "freedom of sexual expression" and "needs a poster child bad" just don't belong in the same essay!

The closest feminism has is Camille Paglia. There needs to be a younger, straighter version.

Hmmm... so only het chicks need apply. Tragic.

what about susie bright?

Susie's cool. But she isn't new -- she has been a well-known pro-sex feminist for years. I don't remember; it's been a while since I read any of her work. Does she, as the author so crudely put it, dig cock?

i think she plays for both teams (i could be wrong tho...)

Only het chicks need to apply to, um, fill that particular void. People already associates lesbians and man-haters (classifying them as two distinct groups)with feminism. Your average cock-loving, boy crazy chick might not feel there's a place for her.

And that is what is wrong with feminism as it is popularly perceived: they appear to be against freedom of expression, especially freedom of sexual expression.

Key words: PERCEIVED and APPEAR.

Radical American feminists of the late 60s and early/mid-70s popularized the rhetoric that "all sex is rape," and the like. They were always on the fringe, although they were quite vocal and did, in fact, help women [particularly white, middle-class women] make many social and legal gains. The rhetoric was a sign of the times, and it did serve its purpose fairly well.

Some of that rhetoric remains today, but it's even more marginalized than it was 25+ years ago. Unfortunately, the term "feminist" is used loosely and has retained a stigma: women are sometimes afraid to call themselves feminists because they'll be considered "man haters."

Some women, even those who don't consider themselves feminists consider all heterosexual porn to be exploitative and dangerous to women. Others don't. The difference between anti-porn feminists and gay-bashers should be evident, however.

Feminists don't need a poster girl who advertises that she is "cock happy" to counter-balance anti-porn feminists. That's just another stereotypical extreme. We just need normal, everyday women [of any sexual preference] who believe in gender equality to identify themselves as feminists and to eschew the "feminazi" label that would be put upon them/us by others.

Perhaps I'm not a feminist since I do enjoy sex then?

I recently attended a conference on women in media and we had many discussions about making feminism relevant to young women. We are now in feminism's third wave and, obviously, the world is quite different than it was in the times of the suffragettes and the women's libbers. I understand that we have to try and reach people where they are. It's just that the notion of stipulating -- unofficially, of course -- that any new feminism standard bearer must have any one characteristic (beyond being a feminist, natch) is repugnant to me.

Egggzactly, Natalie.

If we were talking one standard bearer: absolutely. Repugnant. Agreed. I think what's being discussed is showing there's diversity and a place for all women.

And men! We need more men who are willing to say they're feminists.

since i am a lesbian trapped in a man's body..i will state it...i luv women!!

count me as a feminist!!

Excelsior!

Now that I can agree with, Ms. Rivers. And same to you, friend bhw: I love feminist men.

i'm a feminist men! (uh...man...whatever)

;-)

Feminism is suffering from what many other groups are suffering from, a relabeling from the conservative right wing.

There was a time when Politically Correct meant tolerance and melting pot. Now it means stifling and oppressive to religion.

There was a time when feminism meant celebrating womanhood and fighting for equality. Now it means butch lesbians in Birkenstocks trying to stick it to 'The Man.'

There was a time when Liberal meant protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority, and working as a community to build a better life together. Now it has been redefined by the Right to mean socialism and the State. (and they love to bitch about it while the current Right administration is building the biggest State we've ever known).

The list goes on. All the words that liberals have used in the past to promote good ideology has been co-opted by the right wing propaganda machine to now have negative connotations. And THAT is one of the primary reasons, if not THE primary reasons why liberals/feminists and all people who love the politically correct melting pot where we all work together to make a better life no longer have any power.

Now it's all about greed, screwing over the middle class and the poor, nation building, trampling on civil liberties, destroying historical documents and creating the Big Brother we all lament, so that the rich can get richer and contribute even less to the society that put them where they are today.

So we stop kowtowing to the right wing. Don't allow them to define the terms. I don't. I can't.

Nicolette said-"The closest feminism has is Camille Paglia. There needs to be a younger, straighter version."

I've always thought of Camille as ultra-hot although I don't keep up on her current views on sex, politics or feminism. One of her intellectual points on femism that I do recall was that women should take more responcibilty for their own actions.

I always thought she WAS straight though. Age-wise, I don't see a problem with her.

My dad used to quote Burt Lancaster from a movie...he said, "I gave up green apples back on the farm. Ripe fruit is MUCH sweeter." I would apply that to Paglia.

Nope. Camille is a lesbian.

Feminists don't need a poster girl who advertises that she is "cock happy" to counter-balance anti-porn feminists. That's just another stereotypical extreme. We just need normal, everyday women [of any sexual preference] who believe in gender equality to identify themselves as feminists and to eschew the "feminazi" label that would be put upon them/us by others.

YES!
bhw, that is amazing. That is exactly why I go out of my way to identify as a feminist. I am pro-gender equality. In fact, I'm anti-anything-that-makes-someone-feel-like-less-of-a-human-being. I don't think there's anything radical about that.

Nope, I don't either. It is a dirty shame, though, that in this world, that concept is alien to most people.

You really have no place telling feminists what to do, and even less in that crude, breezy way you're not quite pulling off. I guess you needed some attention.

Do you have a NOW or NARAL membership? Been volunteering at the Rape Crisis Center? Do you speak up when women are called bitches and whores and what not?

Your statements about pornography are not true, at least in the US. There's plenty of research and plenty of common sense experience that contradicts that. It's interesting that pornography always portrays women enjoying sex with in highly unlikely conditions (because of men's fear that they don't know how to please a woman), and your subject is that you somehow need to dictate to women that they need to put out a scripted image of themselves as enjoying sex, like porn does. Scripts, ridid controls and the like betray a fear that the opposite is true and would emerge if it could. The crude way you speak about things that are not yours to dictate is probably from being immersed in a world of porn. Being immersed in this fake world makes it harder for a man to find a real woman and to please her.

Now, go volunteer at the women's center!

Aw, Gonzo ... and I was going to ask you to marry me. I'm crushed. Oh well, c'est la vie. BTW, every time I see your tag line all I can think of is Thurber's poem.

Shark's take:

1) Women have ALL the power, it's just that 'most' don't know it.

2) the Right redefined "feminism" -- as with every other term we (lefties) had.

3) But they had plenty of help from the likes of Andrea Dworkin, who, in a symbolic move to signal the 'new feminism' -- should be exhumed, inflated with helium, and left to orbit the stratosphere as a sign of what happens to women who hate sex and tend to overeat as compensation.

4) The destruction of "feminism" was also aided by inherent genetic traits of the females themselves -- traits which have remained uncontrolled and -- when left to 'prosper' -- have resulted in:

malls
24 hour shopping channels
midriff-baring tops
low slung hiphugger jeans
thongs
high heals
makeup
plastic surgery
fake pumpkin-like tits
and THE WOMEN WHO WILLINGLY POSE FOR PORNOGRAPHY.


Chew on that kids, but before you pummmel me, remember Shark's #1!

"heels."

Oy;

I hate it when I do that:

typing at the speed of sound!

On a more serious note, I agree w/Cerulean, I'm offended by the tone and message of Adam's post, not that anyone gives a rap, I'm sure. But WHY do women need to re-define themselves in a way acceptable to men? Why do we have to do all the conforming to men's standards (or lack thereof)? I know damn few men who try to conform or define themselves to the standards of women. Maybe there would be fewer man-hating feminazis or just plain rank-&-file women if men stopped behaving like spoiled, arrogant, sexist bullies. Men tyrannize women because, face it, they can, and they can get away with it, too: they are physically stronger and more violent, and worldwide they are the ones who hold most or all of the political, legal, and economic power, mostly by duress of women. It isn't women and little girls who sell themselves into sex slavery, etc. I have to admit, the notion in one of Anne Rice's books that women rose up and put down their oppressors was very enticing to me, and I was both disappointed and even outraged when the [male, as usual] protagonist managed to pull the plug on that project by destroying the female insurrectionist. I have to say I think a world without men would be a more peaceful, equitable place. There's something about testosterone that seems to poison everything it touches.

Nancy: "On a more serious note..."

Sometimes, Nanc, my 'jokes' are accompanied by profound truisms that are deeper than they appear.

"Women have ALL the power, it's just that 'most' don't know it."

--- is one of 'em.

Best,
S

PS: Is it just me, or do Paglia and Carl Sagan look like twins?

Good morning. It's just you: Sagan has squinnier eyes. Maybe it's too early yet, but your comment went over my head; please be more turgid. Thanks.

Nancy, it's none of my business, as a man, to tell women what to do, but being a diehard 2nd wave feminist myself, it irks me that 3rd wave feminism has not paid any attention to the PR aspect of its movement (as though it has no interest in selling its ideas) -- and allows itself to be branded as sex-hating, when feminism is the most important movement of our time, of ALL time, especially now that we know that the inequality of the sexes is why most of the world lives in abject poverty. Cerulean, I'm pro-porn but I don't watch it. I'd much rather read Middlemarch, written by a genius woman who had to give herself a man's name. If a little crude breeziness is all it takes to provoke you to utter rudeness, you exemplify the very PR problem the post was about.

I don't believe that there needs to be more role models in feminism to impress men, but more to embrace women.

I do want men to know they are not the enemy, but more than that I want a brand of feminism that stops painting other women as either the enemy or the victim. (If a woman chooses a traditional role they are often painted as subversive or oppressed.)

The fulfillment of any human being is largely based on finding their own path through as many available choices as possible. Feminism does not aid in this if they are not allowing a woman more choices -- just different choices. Some feminists play like this is a game of bait and switch...they talk about freedom, but then present you with a menu of acceptable choices. At the top of the menu, and in BIG LETTERS is: Sorry, No Substitutions!

hang on, i'm a pro-sex feminist! does it count if your a feminist who is pro-sex but can't remember when last they had it?

maybe it'd be like when you see a movie as a kid, and then years later you buy the DVD and find it sucks.

maybe when i get in such a position i'll be anti-sex all of a sudden, just like those folks who turned Anti-Goonies once it was re-issued.

That feminists don't like sex is pretty ridiculous when you consider that we are at the forfront of the reproductive rights movement. Something which is much sexier to most women than pornagraphy.

The reason women don't like to be associated with feminism was graphically described by Adam.

(Jeez, I hope I'm not sounding patronizing. Any man who ventures into a feminist discussion knows that uncomfortable feeling of putting his very balls, two sensitive and easily bruised organs, on the line.)

I've had sex with a number of feminists. In each instance, we both enjoyed it.

I offer to personally screw any guy who thinks feminists are sexless uglies. I'll screw you nice and hard, gentlemen, using the strap-on of your choice. Any takers?

Hmmmm... Do they really make strap on vaginas? It's been so long since I've been into a sex shop.

;-]

Peace!

If you can't fight fair, end the thread.

Bennett, I'm afraid they don't ;)

Wow, i never knew there was a secret place where people actually used their brains - this is excellent. I am writing a paper now about the portrayal of feminism in the us pop media - it gets pretty confusing - i mean, feminism is such a big umbrella

Yes Bee, we got 'em and we use 'em.

Check out some of the other threads, search BC for whatever you want to read about, it'll be there!

Actually, this little thing with Creeping Jenny is one of my proudest moments.

Hmmm... Well, I can only speak for myself but a discussion with some of my third-wave colleagues has shockingly confirmed that I'm not the first feminist to dig cock and I won't be the last ;-)

Perhaps there just has to be more room, to allow all women to identify themselves as feminist.
Some men might want to listen more to women and some women more to men.

But I found that some, or well at least over here, seem to be more afraid of women being better in some areas then them, or being less in control of the situation.

I would let a women read things like the playboy, penthouse and some other things, just to give them an idea of how men look to them. It might be shocking for some, but useful.


Gonzo, every time I read a comment of you, I can't help but smile.

Another disturbing guide to many men's views of women and sex can be found at the Web site associated with the "alt.seduction.fast" Usenet newsgroup.

Many women may find it useful to know the deceptive techniques some men will use in their efforts to persuade women to have sex with them.

In my case, the main effect of reading such material has been to bolster my pride for being unwilling to commit such deceptions.

"In my case, the main effect of reading such material has been to bolster my pride for being unwilling to commit such deceptions."

[Victor waits by the computer patiently, hoping some hot little piece of tail will read this ridiculous bullshit and put out ...]

I don't call myself a feminist because I never felt the need to label myself as anything but a woman. I was raised by a very strong willed woman who taught me that women could do what they wanted and do it well without a man.

But are young girls really intererested in the feminine movement or do they think that since our generation fought the good fight and they no longer have to try? That is the impression I get when I try to talk to some of them about what it was like in the fifties (what little I can remember of the fifties) and sixties. I remember neighbor hood women being beaten and not having any where to turn or anyone to help them. They had no one and they were trapped. My biological mother was like that. She was trapped in a system where no one would help her.

But many of the young women today have no idea what the feminist movement has done for them.

That is sad.

Wait, am I the only person who remembers Ashley Judd wearing her "This is what a feminist looks like" T-shirt at the March for Women's Lives?

I mean, we could all start a massive letter-writing campaign to get Angelina Jolie to publically come out as a feminist, but if that's not enough for y'all...

On Sagan/Pagila: My personal opinion:

Sagan: Hot
Pagila: Not

Okay, if we're restricting our search for hot pro-sex feminists to "faculty at the University of Chicago Law School", what about Martha Nussbaum? She's very attractive and is pro-sex.

Ok I'm passionate about this so I have to write my own little essay here. I think that feminists that question sexuality have their place in feminism and need to be heard. We need to define our own sexuality and be thinking deeply about it, because obviously sex colors our world, especially in our sex-obsessed culture. I actually admire MacKinnon, she's got a lot to say. Just because we live in a culture that consumes a lot of porn - a lot of it degrading and negative to women - doesn't mean we have to conform to that and necessarily accept it. It's not anti-sex, to question the ways that we have sex, the ways our bodies have adapted to male dominated culture that hates us.

Speaking as a woman who consumes porn, has had some pretty wild sexual fantasies/experiences, a lot of them I'm sure MacKinnon would want me to rethink, I would have to say that ultimately I want to. I want feminists who challenge me, not just make me feel good about my little fetishes or every little thing that makes me feel comfortable. I want to be a complete human being and not someone who indulges in every sexual fetish at the expense of more important issues. It's good to separate good images of sexuality from maybe harmful ones - to question where a lot of violent, dehumanizing, or degrading porn is coming from and see if we can change it. Not through laws or censorship, but through some kind of personal/social revolution. I'd rather have sex in ways that make me feel good about myself and the world afterwards than not, let's put it that way. So... I want to be pro-sex when it's pro-woman. And we have to face reality and see that a lot of sex being sold today is not pro-woman by any stretch of imagination.

Another point a lot of "pro-sex, anything's-OK-sexually" feminists say that what they're doing is freedom of choice. I don't think it always is. I think our bodies and minds have adapted to an often brutal patriarchal culture that treats us like crap. We think we're freely choosing, but it's just part of our DNA to adapt to suffering and degradation now. We don't examine our sexual desires and don't know many other ways of expressing ourselves sexually. I don't think it's a great idea for women to adapt to that reality, that a lot of porn puts out there, and be "cock happy." It can lead to bad places, physically and emotionally. And I speak from profound experience. We don't need a government to tell us that, but we sure should be looking at it ourselves and doing something about it without challenging the sanctity of free speech.

Anyway, it's great people are talking about MacKinnon. It'd be cool to see a return to old-school feminism that confronted some hard realities. Old shool feminism had a certain toughness and discipline instead of just indulging in everything and she sort of embodies that. I don't always agree with her, but I'm glad she exists.

That lack of toughness is one of the reasons why the right was able to turn feminism into a dirty word by the way. We were just not willing to say what people don't want to hear, take on the hard subjects or directly challenge anything that's popular - like the pleasure the world is taking in hurting women through sexuality. And not just through sex, but everything - religion, government, social customs. You can't have a revolution and make everyone happy and comfortable and hip at the same time. You need to walk through fire sometimes. When the feminists of the last twenty years or so, were ridiculed and attacked by the Right for being too radical, man-hating, inventing that story about saying "all sex was rape" ugly and all kinds of other insults, feminists shouldn't have backed off, but should've stuck by their values, got stronger and fought better and smarter. Instead it seems like there was a frantic scrambling to conform to the image of what the Right wants women to be. Scrambling around trying to please. It's bad and weak adapting strategy.

Ultimately I would like to get to a place where we are less obsessed with sex anyway - it's just one healthy aspect of being a complete human being. Feminism isn't just about sex, we would probably better off with more focus on other things once in a while. Like honor, gaining some more confidence and strength, firing up for the next battle for women's rights, teaching our children feminist values, maybe creating something totally new, finding ways to care for men in our movement, caring for women in other parts of the world and maintaining our freedom that the Right is trying to steal from us. That's more important than our image as cock lovers even.

God that was an essay, sorry, but I was just thinking about all of this before I ran across this article, so it hit a nerve and I had to get it out. I liked the article though, it made me think and you're right about needing to care about the image we're projecting, I just think it's focusing on the wrong aspect of our image. It would be greater if we just had an image of being strong confident, passionate people who can't be manipulated by the Right at all. We don't need to define ourselves through our sexuality, we can define ourselves through what's going on in our hearts, minds and souls and if they don't like it, too bad.

I'm happy women are working now. They pay taxes and chase paper money around in circles, it's great. I think all of them should go to work. I'm glad they are paying for things and supporting this economy. I think they should have to work their asses off just as hard as men and I'm happy they aren't lounging around the house sipping tea with their girlfriends. That life was too easy and they didn't get to pay any taxes, spend money supporting and growing our economy.

They should stop making babies, the majority of them produce babies without a father. That should be a crime as single mothers are raising the next generation of crooks. 85% of men in prison are products of SMHousholds.

Our biggest serial killers, Bundy, Green River killer, came from SMH. They were rasied by domineering women they detested.

"Where have all the good men gone?" well they got raised by single women and they are turning out to be lousy men.

Jan, thanks for comment #48. It needed saying. All of it.

Is feminism a hate movement? Yes it is. Does feminism have any original ideas? No. They robbed and stole ideas from communism and marxism, both invented by men. Is feminism a threat to men? Hardly, they only turn our women into monsters with no sense of direction. Does feminism make war against how a woman of the bible should behave? Yes, they tell women to not marry men, and looking after children is akin to slavery. So women let complete strangers raise their children.

"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do."
Popular Feminist Graffiti -
"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist"
Amazon Odyssey (p. 86) - Ti-Grace Atkinson
"(Rape) is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear"
Against Our Will p.6. - Susan Brownmiller
"We are taught, encouraged, moulded by and lulled into accepting a range of false notions about the family. As a source of some of our most profound experiences, it continues to be such an integral part of our emotional lives that it appears beyond criticism. Yet hiding from the truth of family life leaves women and children vulnerable."
- Canadian Panel on Violence Against Women
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience."
Vassar College. Assistant Dean of Students - Catherine Comin
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things."
SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men.) - Jilly Cooper
" How will the family unit be destroyed? ...[T]he demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare."
In "Female Liberation" - Roxanne Dunbarr
"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it "Her". Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination."
Pornography: Men Possessing Women - Andrea Dworkin
"The traditional flowers of courtship are the traditional flowers of the grave, delivered to the victim before the kill. The cadaver is dressed up and made up and laid down and ritually violated and consecrated to an eternity of being used."
- Andrea Dworkin
"Men renounce whatever they have in common with women so as to experience no commonality with women; and what is left...is one piece of flesh a few inches long, the penis. The penis is the man; the man is human; the penis signifies humanity."
- Andrea Dworkin
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig."
Ice And Fire - Andrea Dworkin
"On the Left, on the Right, in the Middle; Authors, statesmen, thieves; so-called humanists and self-declared fascists; the adventurous and the contemplative, in every realm of male expression and action, violence is experienced and articulated as love and freedom."
Pornography: Men Possessing Women - Andrea Dworkin
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies."
- Andrea Dworkin
"The cultural institutions which embody and enforce those interlocked aberrations - for instance, law, art, religion, nation-states, the family, tribe, or commune based on father-right - these institutions are real and they must be destroyed."
- Andrea Dworkin
"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership."
- Andrea Dworkin
"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo."
in The New York Times Magazine - Jodie Foster
"I was, in reality, bred by my parents as my father's concubine...What we take for granted as the stability of family life may well depend on the sexual slavery of our children. What's more, this is a cynical arrangement our institutions have colluded to conceal."
- Sylvia Fraser
"My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."
The Woman's Room - Marilyn French
"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey."
The Woman's Room - Marilyn French
"All men are rapists and that's all they are."
Author; (later, advisor to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.) - Marilyn French
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE."
(Her emphasis) - Marilyn French
"The media treat male assaults on women like rape, beating, and murder of wives and female lovers, or male incest with children, as individual aberrations...obscuring the fact that all male violence toward women is part of a concerted campaign."
- Marilyn French
"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together.... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the breakup of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.... No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children...."
"Functions of the Family," WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969 - Linda Gordon
"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."
- Germaine Greer
"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference."
Rape: The All-American Crime - Susan Griffin
"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..."
- Sheila Jeffrys
"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it."
Former Congresswoman - Barbara Jordan
Catharine MacKinnon (...) maintains that "the private is a sphere of battery, marital rape and women's exploited labor." In this way, privacy and family are reduced to nothing more than aspects of the master plan, which is male domination. Democratic freedoms and the need to keep the state's nose out of our personal affairs are rendered meaningless. The real reason our society cherishes privacy is because men have invented it as an excuse to conceal their criminality. If people still insist that the traditional family is about love and mutual aid -- ideals which, admittedly, are sometimes betrayed -- they're "hiding from the truth." The family isn't a place where battery and marital rape sometimes happen but where little else apparently does. Sick men don't simply molest their daughters, they operate in league with their wives to "breed" them for that purpose.
The Princess at the Window; (in a critical explication of the Catharine MacKinnon, Gloria Steinhem et al tenets of misandric belief.) - Donna Laframboise
"There are no boundaries between affectionate sex and slavery in (the male) world. Distinctions between pleasure and danger are academic; the dirty-laundrylist of 'sex acts'...includes rape, foot binding, fellatio, intercourse, auto eroticism, incest, anal intercourse, use and production of pornography, cunnilingus, sexual harassment, and murder."
summarizing comment on the WAS document,
(A southern Women's Writing Collective: Women Against Sex.) - J.Levine
"Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence."
- Judith Levine
"Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to fuck/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.'"
(explicating comment profiling prevailing misandry.) - Judith Levine
"I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, 'hate in love,' for the men women share their lives with -- husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers."
My Enemy, My Love - Judith Levine
"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs."
(Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.) - Catherine MacKinnon
"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent."
quoted in Professing Feminism:
Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies - Catherine MacKinnon
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."
- Catherine MacKinnon
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage."
From Sisterhood Is Powerful, (ed), 1970, p. 537 - Robin Morgan
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them."
Ms. Magazine Editor. - Robin Morgan
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
Ms. Magazine Editor. - Robin Morgan
"And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism -- the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group, specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group -- skin, color, sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed FUCKED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism -- the oppressed have no alternative -- for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women's Liberation will of course free men -- but in the short run it's going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women -- kill your fathers, not your mothers"
Ms. Magazine Editor. - Robin Morgan
"We live, I am trying to say, in an epidemic of male violence against women."
- Katha Pollitt
"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex."
SCUM Manifesto (Society for Cutting Up Men.) - Valerie Solana
"'To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo."
Scum Manifesto - Valerie Solanas
"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men..."
One Woman, One Vote, Wheeler, p. 58 - Elizabeth Stanton
"All men are good for is fucking, and running over with a truck"
Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. - Unknown

Cute troll. Should we feed him?

Feminists have promoted the killing of 1/3 of every human being under 30! In the name of

career advancement. --True Domestic Terrorism in the Womb.

Gloria Steinem says, "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human

potential, not God.

"The end of the institution of marriage is necessary for the liberation of women; therefore,

it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not live individually

with men. All of history must be rewritten in terms of oppression of women. We must go back

to ancient female religions like witchcraft!" "Declaration of Feminism" 1971

Anne Lori Gaylor "Feminist Salvation" "Humanist" 1988 says, "Let's forget about the mythical

Jesus and look for encouragement, solace, and inspiration from real women. 2,000 years of

patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women towards the

feminist salvation of the world."

Feminism "Destroying happy families, one Divorce at a time!" --Shock and Awe "The Anti-Feminist"

23: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman,

because she was taken out of Man.

24: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and

they shall be one flesh.

25: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Genesis 2:23-25

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the

woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the

man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 1 Corinthians 11 7-9

A feminist Lies every 9 seconds --hijacked by Shock and Awe!!!!

www.acfc.org--"Men are using children as a tool too gain control over ex-wives." --Amanda Marcotte

"Only child molestors, batterers, rapists try to gain custody of children in a divorce." --Amanda Marcotte

Glenn Sacks in reply to Mizz Marcotte, "I'm sure it couldn't be because the Man loves his children

and wants to spend time with them!"

A feminist flunks a math and science test every .02 seconds--Shock and Awe

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and

lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timoth 3:6-7

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall

bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt

bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten

of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground

for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Genisis 3:16,17

It might be interesting to debate these "points," if they were being made by a human being, and not so obviously being pumped out by some sort of automated trollbot script.

It might be interesting to debate these "points," if they were being made by a human being, and not so obviously being pumped out by some sort of automated trollbot script.



Yes, I sure wish the 52 million dead souls could speak up, but what would you expect when they got, murdered! If I haven't said this before, I will again, it took women just 52 years from the time they got to vote, until the time they started leading up to the 3,000 a day slaughter of the unborn. Margaret Singer would be proud. Isn't she the one that said, "The best thing a family can do, is to kill one of its memebers."

Planned Parent Hood should be called, "Planned Snuff Squad." Don't forget to add the 'for profit.'

This was a fascinating discussion to read until the trolls came along and ruined it.

Can we try to revive it?

I count myself a feminist - I like women, sex and believe in women's equality.
I even wear a t-shirt that says:
"Men of quality
respect women's equality."

I think they've gone now...

The trolls or those with thoughts on the issue?

As for the "bitches" comment I'd point you to a discussion of sorts on that word in my latest "Black.White" review.

Scott, you sound like a Mangina.

verlch.blogspot.com says it all.

Says what I think about feminism. How feminism destroys the family, makes single mothers and then the bastard/fatherless children become the next generation of criminals, Stryng wimmen say they fear.

So what do women do, vote in a more powerful government to protect them from their fatherless criminals.

The prison system is guaranteed a steady stream of criminals, as 85% of criminals come from broken homes, and are raised by the majority of single mothers, as women get custody 95% of the time.

I think the other 15% are in prison because they were allowed to hang around fatherless boys and girls.

Way to go feminazies, and oh yeah, it was the female vote that got Hitler into office.

Scott...I am sorry for that attack. I am a new man with a new mission!

Adam, your article seems to put a big emphasis on branding, on feminism as a brand with an image problem, and yet ignores brand dynamics that only exist outside gender relations if you consider the question superficially.

And this is that sexy feminists who like cock are the most co-opted brand in the world when it comes to selling things in a cynical, commercial fashion. Remember the Spice Girls? Britney Spears pole-dancing to "Stronger"? Madonna being a constant fucking annoying twat who spouts vapidities? They made alot of money exploiting women's lousy self-perception and are, to a woman, not the role models I'd ever think of choosing for any little girl I know.

Forget 'nobody wants to be a feminist anymore', and remember that there's a good reason many women who call themselves feminists distrust that sort of typing. It's probably the same reason your article ruffled so many feathers.