Blogcritics: Comments on Photos prompt outpouring of sympathy for Saddam

Comment by Natalie Davis

Fri, 27 May 2005 20:32:38 EDT

Perhaps. However, I am alone. Here, at home, everywhere. Lonely too, but alone is safer.

Comment by gonzo marx

Fri, 27 May 2005 20:24:07 EDT

your humble Narrator sez... *everyone is Alone, and no one is* perhaps a prose paradox professes a poignant Principle? Excelsior!

Comment by Natalie Davis

Fri, 27 May 2005 20:16:37 EDT

If someone thinks I matter, it is a surprise to me. Don't know quite how to take that. But make no mistake -- nd you'd have to know details of my life to understand completely -- I am all alone.

Comment by gonzo marx

Fri, 27 May 2005 20:02:40 EDT

Ms Davis... your Writing is always a welcome Read, if it aids in your sorting things out and utilizing some time in the day for yourself....then merely do it here, or place the link..i for one, will read it..i am fairly certain others will as well you are NOT alone and you DO matter as for JuJu..please check the other Thread when you please...but Bennett Knows my Way i hope that aids in Clarity Excelsior!

Comment by Natalie Davis

Fri, 27 May 2005 19:59:41 EDT

...is a waste of space and is a digression from the actual topic. And the statement sure washes for me. If I say something, it is because I believe it to be true. Otherwise, there is no point. I appreciate satire, to be sure, but those who write satire should know that sometimes what reduces tension for you increases it for others.

Comment by Bennett

Fri, 27 May 2005 19:39:24 EDT

Just plain 'ol Bennett will do. Think of it as an informal title, like "waiter". I have enjoyed many of your comments, and yes you do stimulate my thought process, even when you are whacking me with my own words. I have a small problem with the whole JuJu thing though. I believe that gonzo (think "busboy") was actually drawing a comparison between the strident religious bigotry that we've seen in the last week or so, and was reacting by putting forward his "Faith Of The Week". No disrespect intended, but parody definitely intended. It was a way to both reduce tension, and point out the ridiculous nature of religious bigotry. Just my opinion however. Oh, please stop saying that you don't matter, it doesn't wash. The fact that this conversation is taking place...

Comment by Natalie Davis

Fri, 27 May 2005 19:31:00 EDT

A wee bit more, then I'm done. Truth is, I know I raise points many people have never before considered. I may not change many minds, but I do make some people think. That could blossom into something wonderful for someone like me a couple of generations in the future. The middle of the road needs to know the suffering it causes. My honesty bothers people, I know. I am sorry for that. But you know what? The status quo makes more people than you may think suffer and long for escape or, failing that, death. It's a painful truth, but a truth nonetheless. And it is my responsibility, my duty, to speak truth. Meaning, I am not insane. I don't need counseling. I am deeply depressed, but it would be crazy not to be, given reality. Think about it. Seriously. Depression is the only sane response to the insanity of life in this country and much of this world. It's a horrible thing to say, but it is the truth and I am painfully honest always. I'm just telling it as it is. Because I must. And honesty is part of integrity, which I must uphold to the best of my ability because, frankly, that's all your world allows me. If, by some chance, the plan's implementation is moved to an earlier time, if you care about me (and there is no reason I can imagine why you would) be happy for me. Know that I am better off. Infinitely. 'Cause God knows, happiness is something that is not part of my existence as things are. I look around every day with the knowledge that most of the people around me are partially to blame for the hell millions suffer. Of course, I am sure the real concern is that I am seen as buzzkill. A downer. I am spoiling your (general you) good time. Not my intention, of course, but that seems to be the message emerging here. Same thing I said to Dawn: Don't worry about me. I am not worth your concern. But if you want me to leave for your benefit, just say the word.

Comment by Natalie Davis

Fri, 27 May 2005 19:05:05 EDT

Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Stark. Plan B is down the road a bit. I am slipping this coil soon only if God loves me. Too many obligations at present. Mr. Bennett, I appreciate your advice, but given that I always feel this way, should I give up BC altogether? I have considered that too many times to count. But truth is, I need to write and this is a platform to do so and Eric, whom I love, is here. I do this to write and I consider it part of my activism too. In other words, though I hate it, I am compelled to do it. Truth is, I know I raise points many people have never before considered. I may not change minds, but I do make some people think. That could blossom into something wonderful for someone like me a couple of generations down the road.

Comment by Temple Stark

Fri, 27 May 2005 18:56:28 EDT

Blogcritics: A sinister cabal of superior bloggers on music, books, film, popular culture, technology, and politics. -- WARNING could cause suicide. /dark humor] I agree Bennett - a seemingly wise suggestion. Take Ms. Davis at her word. Discussing it so openly means she's thought of it - as so many have - and discarded it - as so many have.

Comment by Bennett

Fri, 27 May 2005 18:47:07 EDT

Dear Natalie Davis, "I think about Jim Carruthers a lot, and IMO, he's way better off than those of us he left behind." Please speak for yourself on this one. I appreciate that you are going through a tough time, but believe me, I am WAY better off than Jim right now. I can't help wondering if BC is really good for you right now? If you feel pain at the comments - on the slew of bigoted cristo posts we are wading through right now, many of them (the posts) attacking your sexual orientation, do you really need to put yourself through reading this stuff? You don't seem to want any help or consolation. Yet you seem to be unable to stop wallowing in something that hurts you. Why? I wish you the best of luck finding a job that gets you on the path to expatriation. Seriously. Take care. Bennett

Comment by Natalie Davis

Fri, 27 May 2005 17:46:40 EDT

Try to find the good while under the cloud of inequality? I've been here 43 years and the very search seems more impossible every day, especially since 2000. See, that's the thing. I really wonder if the MOR crowd can grasp fully the magnitude of the suffering caused by the policies and inequities they allow. If they did, they would give up all that "find the good" and "deal with it" crap. You guys are equal under law and likely will die equal under law. Dawn, I've been fighting for my entire life. What is good about that? Things are becoming more frightening and intolerable each day. And my hope is gone. I think about Jim Carruthers a lot, and IMO, he's way better off than those of us he left behind. Throwing in the towel? If that's how it appears to you, you obviously don't get it. The breaking point is past. And my faith in supposedly reasonable people is gone. Let me stop before someone finds me tiring and wearisome. I am probably too late for that. I will do what I must. Expatriation is Plan A. But if that fails, and given being unemployed and all I have is Plan B. If not for the kids, I would have been gone, one way or another, long ago. Cash in my chips. As if I had any. And my relationship with suicide is a long and storied one. Nothing surprises me.

Comment by Dawn

Fri, 27 May 2005 17:20:20 EDT

Suicide, though sometimes an appealing option, isn't really an option after all. If everyone felt the way you did, then I imagine there would never have been an equal rights movement and all gays, minorities, Jews and the disabled would have been eliminated long ago. It's the fight to fix the wrongs and change the future that should keep a good hearted person like you going. It's okay to wallow in your misery for a short time occasionally, but you have children so you know the reality of life: no one ever said it would be easy. Would you counsel your own children to just throw in the towel like that? You'd be surprised how many loved ones follow suit when you do something heinous like that. Seriously, anyone with as much love for their family as you have wouldn't even DARE consider that as option. Canada isn't that far away, I'd rather lose you to the Canucks than have you cash your chips in early. Please try to find the good. Lots of people here love you, so I imagine that those in your life must adore and cherish you.

Comment by Natalie Davis

Fri, 27 May 2005 01:51:10 EDT

I appreciate that, Mr. Saxton, but it isn't necessary. I am fine, and I am not the problem. And as I said, if Plan B becomes necessary, this won't happen for at least a decade. Beyond that, and most importantly, there is no reason for any of you to be concerned for me. None. Focus on people who matter.

Comment by HW Saxton

Fri, 27 May 2005 00:32:04 EDT

Natalie, Please seek counseling.If not for your own sake then the sake of your loved ones of which it seems you are blessed with many.This is said seriously and by someone who has fought depression for years. Since my early teens well into adulthood. There is all kinds of help available out there: Support networks, free counseling,etc. It is all easily accessible. This is written without any condescension, smart-assed overtones or whatever. Peace.

Comment by Bennett

Thu, 26 May 2005 23:52:55 EDT

Here I thought you were strong, but yet you are considering an out that is nothing but giving in to those that oppose what you believe in. You have more to offer than that, and more to discover than you can imagine. I suggest a break from this debate, this stress that builds up feelings that left, right, or middle, there is no appreciation for the singular fantastic person you really are. There IS appreciation for Natalie, and although I don't know you personally, I like knowing you here at BC. Sleep well, and come out fighting.

Comment by SFC SKI

Thu, 26 May 2005 23:28:51 EDT

Natalie, I wish you all success in finding the place you think all will be well, but I will be surprised if it turns out to be as good as you think it will be. I have been around a large part of the world, and no place yet has been perfect. Good luck.

Comment by Natalie Davis

Thu, 26 May 2005 22:41:21 EDT

Not to me. But I love you anyway. And no, I won't become part of the middle. My feelings and fears have not changed. This is not my country; this is not my home. And the way things are, I have no choice but leave when possible. If that isn't able to happen in the not too distant future, in all seriousness, suicide is my only option. I am NOT saying that is the plan and it is nothing that is imminent. I am stuck here (unless god blesses me by taking me in my sleep, say, tonight -- ah, if only) until my kids are adults. I sincerely hope my life and situation improves in time. If it continues as is, however, I am left with no other option. I reveal all this, Dawn, to make it quite clear that my need to flee your country and my fear of what further horror the middle and right will cause to my existence and to the lives of others are deadly, deadly serious. I am in hell. Reasonable? I don't see how the middle could be described thusly. Sure, there are reasonable individuals like yourself, but on the whole, the middle is dangerous to me. Simple fact.

Comment by Dawn

Thu, 26 May 2005 20:49:48 EDT

My point Natalie isn't to chase you off, I have managed without trying to do that to more than one Blogcritic, and you are one of the few who I have genuine affection for. If I was overly harsh, I am sorry. I suppose what I was trying to impart was that it's pointless to stray wildly to one side or the other when most Americans (and people in general) fall somewhere in the middle. The middle is where compromises must be made. I want most of the things that liberals want; equal rights for ALL people regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or creed, I want the poor to be helped and given opportunity to help themselves, I want education to be the ticket for everyone, especially those in poverty, reproductive rights blah blah blah. All the good stuff, but I also want and advocate a strong defense, fiscal responsibility, thoughtful use of tax dollars, more violent criminals to be viciously and severely punished. I mean I guess you could say I want to have my cake and eat it too, the best of both worlds, the whole kit and kaboodle. BUT, we can't have both worlds, so we must compromise. Why? because we live in a society filled with people of all kinds of ideas and beliefs about what is right and what is wrong. This country is never going to be strictly liberal, it just won't happen because it's not reasonable and it doesn't mesh well with capitalism. But if moderates don't bring things back to the middle, we could very well keep moving right until the middle just gives up in frustration. The middle is going to save this country and we need more people there and less people on the fringe. That's where my weariness comes from. We need reasonable people like you to come into the fold and slowly turn the ship around. Does that make sense?

Comment by Natalie Davis

Thu, 26 May 2005 15:24:59 EDT

Dawn, I love you too, but I could say the same to you. I loathe generalizations because there are some moderates and conservatives that I love. At the same time, who is the greatest threat to this world and to all that is good and decent? The answer differs for everyone, and I can only say what I believe. And I know which philosophies are dangerous to me and mine. Yes, wacky libs and rightists can be dangerous, but from this vantage point, the wacky get away with the terrible, unconscionable things they do because the middle allows it. If the middle believed in true equality, the law would reflect that. If the middle believed in peace, your government would have to give up all things involving war and corporate culture. It doesn't. How can I see the middle as anything but a danger to all I hold dear? As far as being overly political, everything, from what I see, is political. Everything. I've called no one -- especially you -- a fucking moron. Do I believe you are wrong on many issues? Absolutely, and vice versa. So. Should speaking be limited only to those whose rhetoric you find pleasing? And you want weary? Try living my life under these circumstances. It bears repeating: I love you, Dawn. I have few friends here and am grateful for the exisence of you and Eric. But if I can't speak and speak honestly, I should not be here. Just say the word.

Comment by Dawn

Thu, 26 May 2005 15:03:52 EDT

Natalie, on a personal level I love you, on a political level your rhetoric is tiring and wearisome. I am a moderate liberal/moderate conservative - and the only people I am dangerous to are murderous criminals. Nice generalization though. How refreshing to have people only see one side of everything. Because clearly they are always right and everyone who doesn't think like they do is a fucking moron. Sheesh, that kind of thinking will get us....oh, wait it won't get us a damn thing.

Comment by Natalie Davis

Thu, 26 May 2005 14:41:00 EDT

Won't happen. And what makes a moderate liberal necessarily a good thing? It's the middle of the road I find most dangerous.

Comment by Mark Edward Manning

Thu, 26 May 2005 14:21:52 EDT

Thank you, Dawn. I could support McCain in '08. I did vote for him in the primaries in 2000. Here's hoping we can patch up this Vietnam era-like rift. By the way, Sharkie, I wouldn't talk about characterizing an ENTIRE NATION or going on about ONE MAN. You do it with America and Bush all the frickin' time.

Comment by Dawn

Thu, 26 May 2005 10:48:06 EDT

Who is the "fucker?" Is that Saddam or Mark? I thought we were supposed to be a little cordial with fellow BC's. It seems the compliments for civil discourse were handed out too soon. It really bugs me when crazy liberals give us good moderate liberals a bad name. Man do I look forward to voting for McCain in 2008 - 'cuz everyone on either side had lost their ever-loving fricken mind.

Comment by JR

Thu, 26 May 2005 10:03:49 EDT

Mark Edward Manning: Different time, different era, different circumstances... The MEM discovers moral relativism. Saddam Hussein was killing people the whole time.

Comment by Shark

Thu, 26 May 2005 09:59:01 EDT

re: my accusation against Manning's infamous rhetorical tactic of using "actions by ONE MAN and drawing conclusions about ENTIRE NATIONS..." --the fucker remains silent. ...Which is always a good approach when one's methods are indefensible.