Blogcritics: Comments on How to Spot the 'Bad Eggs' in Congress

Comment by Dave Nalle

Mon, 16 May 2005 22:02:23 EDT

That may be too many politicians for one family. When you get that many they eventually go bad. Dave

Comment by RJ

Mon, 16 May 2005 21:44:26 EDT

He is the son of former CongressCritter Stewart Udall (D), the nephew of former CongressCritter Mo Udall (D), and the cousin of both Congressman Mark Udall (D) and Senator Gordon Smith (R).

Comment by MDE

Mon, 16 May 2005 21:31:45 EDT

One thing's for sure. Since I didn't get a reply to my questions from his office today, Udall gets a 0 for prompt responses. Mark

Comment by Dave Nalle

Mon, 16 May 2005 21:21:59 EDT

Is he actually related to Mo Udall? I always kind of liked Mo Udall's frankness. Dave

Comment by RJ

Mon, 16 May 2005 21:19:22 EDT

Rep. Udall is a shame to his family name. From THE ALMANAC OF AMERICAN POLITICS: 2004 : The American for Democratic Action (a socialist group) gave him a 100 rating. The ACLU gave him a 93 rating. The American Conservative Union gave him a 0 rating. The NTU gave him a 21 rating. The Concord Coalition (a non-partisan group) gave him an 18 rating. And on, and on...

Comment by Dave Nalle

Mon, 16 May 2005 16:17:02 EDT

But Shark, I love guns AND abortions. What can you do with that? >>If you read the DSA site you will find statements rejecting Capitalism's Profit Principle. I doubt that many of the 'shameful 20' would go for that in a big way.<< Absolutely wrong. Conyers, McKinney, Sanders and Waters are unquestionably hardline socialists. I'm not as familiar with the others, but I have no reason to think they don't share those views. Sanders has, in fact, been outspoken about equalizing income and basically destroying the wealthy class in America. Here's a quote: "The concentration of wealth is a problem because it distorts our democracy, destabilizes the economy and erodes our at our social and cultural fabric. Too much concentrated wealth leads to too much concentrated power and begins to undermine our participatory democracy." Straight out of the socialist creed. You can find out exactly where they stand on just about every issue through a rather irritating but very informative website at www.issues2002.org. I don't know where they've put the most up to date version of this site, but since no one ever gets voted out (even McKinney got back in after being defeated), it's just a little out of date. >>From what I know about Udall, I wouldn't call him a socialist extremist.<< Really, the US Chamber of Commerce rates him at 23%, one of the most anti-business members of Congress. Has voted 'no' on every free trade bill during his time in Congress and gets an embarassing 33% rating from the CATO institute on trade. How about a 24% rating from the National Taxpayers Union. He's voted to raise taxes at every opportunity. Udall is typical of these folks - he's a disaster for business, trade and the prosperity of the American public. Dave

Comment by Dave Nalle

Mon, 16 May 2005 16:16:35 EDT

Comment by Shark

Mon, 16 May 2005 13:09:45 EDT

DaveNalle: "...That list of 20 Democrats is something everyone should print out and pin to the wall next to their monitor, because these are the people in our government who are genuine enemies of freedom." ...Right next to a list of Doctors who perform abortions? All this -- from a guy who also loves guns. So who is scarier? "democratic socialists" or people like DaveNalle?

Comment by MDE

Mon, 16 May 2005 12:34:15 EDT

re: "The WorldNetDaily article clearly states "Here is the list (provided by The Democratic Socialists of America) of Socialists in Congress" followed by a list including many of the people referenced in my article. What is unclear about that?" What's unclear is membership in DSA - a central claim in your 'commies in the cubboard' argument. There is no claim in the WorldNetDaily article that the listed folks are members of the DSA. re: "The tysknews link has a list of members of the Progressive Caucus. As far as I can tell that group in congress is identical in philosophy with the DSA, and presumably the membership lists match." This is quite an assumption. re: "Given their voting records do you have ANY reason to doubt that these particular members of congress are either in the DSA or totally in sympathy with it and its aims? If you do, I'd be glad to talk about it, but the basic point remains correct, that the people who voted for this bill are all socialist extremists. Do you deny that?" If you read the DSA site you will find statements rejecting Capitalism's Profit Principle. I doubt that many of the 'shameful 20' would go for that in a big way. I'm trying to find out what members of Congress are foolish enough actually to join an organization with the name 'Democratic Socialists of America'. What a PR nightmare. From what I know about Udall, I wouldn't call him a socialist extremist. Mark

Comment by gonzo marx

Mon, 16 May 2005 12:31:30 EDT

Mr Nalle sez.. *Steve, I'm using WorldNetDaily because I can't find the info anywhere else.* so if i find..hypothetically..a piece from..oh..MoveOn.org, stating that half of the GOP signed a fascist manifesto...and i could find that info nowhere else...and i put it out as Truth...that would be ok with you? i mean it was on the net..why should i need to corroborate it? the preceding was chop busting and pure ironic sarcasm..if you are offended by such then the editors would like to suggest NOT reading gonzo's rantings to save brain ache... thank you for your patience... {8^P~~~~~~~~~~~ Excelsior!

Comment by Dave Nalle

Mon, 16 May 2005 12:16:31 EDT

Steve, I'm using WorldNetDaily because I can't find the info anywhere else. If Kos was reporting on this I'd use them. Dave

Comment by gonzo marx

Mon, 16 May 2005 12:16:23 EDT

tho i have no real Argument, as i have clearly stated above.. note that my whole bit on the math of it has gone unAnswered.. i do enjoy this one.. Mr Nalle sez.. *and presumably the membership lists match.* here we go presuming...i can easily agree most of the 20 cited are a "far left"..but as i showed, that is about 10% of the dems in the house..i doubt you could hit 5% in the senate under the same criteria so that fraction of the Minority is something we shoudl be worried about rather than.. the Senate Leader..Dr. Frist...remember his little bit on TV a few sundays ago?..endorsing a Fundamentalist judicial activism agenda...that's good.. House Majority Leader DeLay...do i REALLY need to go over this one? scope the Majorities voting record on far right issues..you will find well over 60% of the GOP easily votes the way their told...now count the handful of GOP moderates willing to even voice their opinions, much less vote against their born again "masters" so..where is the danger here? we retort, you decide...(pun intended) Excelsior!

Comment by Steve S

Mon, 16 May 2005 12:07:51 EDT

For someone to disregard Kos as a source because of the 'bias', but then use WorldNetDaily as one, is pretty funny.

Comment by Dave Nalle

Mon, 16 May 2005 11:28:02 EDT

The WorldNetDaily article clearly states "Here is the list (provided by The Democratic Socialists of America) of Socialists in Congress" followed by a list including many of the people referenced in my article. What is unclear about that? The tysknews link has a list of members of the Progressive Caucus. As far as I can tell that group in congress is identical in philosophy with the DSA, and presumably the membership lists match. Since the DSA doesn't currently publish their membership list, it's a little hard to figure out who belongs without asking each member of congress. Given their voting records do you have ANY reason to doubt that these particular members of congress are either in the DSA or totally in sympathy with it and its aims? If you do, I'd be glad to talk about it, but the basic point remains correct, that the people who voted for this bill are all socialist extremists. Do you deny that? Dave

Comment by MDE

Mon, 16 May 2005 10:21:54 EDT

'perseveration', that is. Mark

Comment by MDE

Mon, 16 May 2005 10:19:23 EDT

Sorry for this preservation, but: re: "Mark, the info came from the article cited in my article" There is no reference to the DSA in the Standard article. geoffmetcalf.com equates the Progressive Caucus with the DSA as does tysknews.com. re: "I have no reason to believe that multiple sources which cite these folks as members of the DSA are wrong" What multiple sources? When you make inflammatory claims, you need to back them up. The 'walks like a duck, votes like a duck' argument is not useful. Mark

Comment by MDE

Mon, 16 May 2005 09:53:17 EDT

I sent the following to Mr Udall - my representative: "Mr Udall or staff: Please see: http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/05/14/130422.php Why did Mr Udall vote against HR193? Is Mr Udall a member of the Democratic Socialists of America? Please feel free to speak to these questions in the comments section at the URL above. Thank you for your prompt response." I'll post any response here and I'll send the same message to the remaining 19 when I have some time. Mark

Comment by Steve S

Mon, 16 May 2005 09:43:33 EDT

and here I was thinking dinner until DrPat spoiled it.

Comment by DrPat

Mon, 16 May 2005 09:35:29 EDT

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what is it...? A source of avian flu or SARS?

Comment by Dave Nalle

Mon, 16 May 2005 09:28:36 EDT

Mark, the info came from the article cited in my article. I'm sorry the DSA doesn't publish its membership list. But I'm not surprised. I'll keep looking for a definitive list, but right now I have no reason to believe that multiple sources which cite these folks as members of the DSA are wrong. Based on their votes and their beliefs they are 100% in sympathy with the philosophy of the DSA. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what is it, Mark? Dave

Comment by MDE

Mon, 16 May 2005 09:22:16 EDT

This list gives members of the Progressive Caucus, a rant on the evils of the DSA, a list of left leaning organizations like the AFL-CIO. The DSA site search tool comes up with no matches for 'Maxine Waters', even. Farr – no matches; Udall – no matches; Conyers – a link to a DSA article in which he is mentioned; etc, etc - so I figure that it is worthless for identifying membership. I don't find the infamous 20 on the lists of who is on what DSA topical commissions. Searches at the Washington Times, the Washington Post, the LA Times, the New York Post are no help. Dave – where did you get your information justifying your statements about DSA membership that I cited in #35 above? Mark

Comment by gonzo marx

Mon, 16 May 2005 00:36:42 EDT

does a moderate change a Nation's history by entering a pre-emptive war? does a moderate go from surplus to record deficit(not counting the War costs..those are NOT in thye budget) does a moderate, who has NEVER left his ranch early..not even for tsunami's..but continues to do his business from there(not a bad thing, i hold no fault for it)..suddenly cut his vacation time short to fly back to DC and sign into Law something written for ONE person?(Terri's law, so much for "small government) i dunno..call me kooky..but could we please ask Mr. Nalle to define his idea of a moderate? objects in mirror may be closer than they appear Excelsior!

Comment by Eric Berlin

Mon, 16 May 2005 00:32:26 EDT

Dave - I strongly disagree that Bush is a moderate President. He's a Big Government Conservative and foreign policy hawk who has transformed the way the government operates both domestically and abroad. Some people applaud many of the administration's policies. I, on the other hand, find many of them to be quite harmful. In other words: I'd take 20 years of Bush the Father for one of Bush the Son.

Comment by gonzo marx

Mon, 16 May 2005 00:21:56 EDT

good points in general , Mr. Nalle but with your defining "good" by record of so called "tax reform" we will definately have to disagree to me a "good" politician is a rare bird indeed...he/she is someone that is looking out for the best interests of their constituents and citizens in general..even when it conflicts with the special interests and lobbyists that paid for them to get elected... whatever happened to "term limits" anyway? Excelsior!

Comment by Eric Berlin

Mon, 16 May 2005 00:17:25 EDT

Great comments Gonzo, I'm fairly close in agreement on many of your points. Except that the theocrats aren't actually getting a single iota of their agenda passed, now are they? If the "nuclear option" gets dropped, it's going to be a Theocratic Field Day...