Blogcritics Comments on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Comment by Flushing Monk on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:00:11 EDT

We should respect religion, but it must come second to our freedom. Religious beliefs sometimes do not make sense to non believers, so they can't form the basis of a secular society. If we want to flush Korans, or Bibles ir whatever, that's our right. Unless I flush your physical copy of the book (which is vandalizing your property), I am free to do so. If I flush your book after torturing you, humiliating you, sexually assaulting you, imprisioning you for defending your country and calling you the enemy, I can understand why you'd be mad. It's not the holy flushing that's the problem it's the other things. You can start flushing holy books yourself at FlushAHolyBook.com ]]>

Comment by SFC SKI on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Tue, 17 May 2005 13:56:06 EDT

"They deserve to be told where to go because they dont think through the implications of all tehir bullshiting." Apt, Sydney, very apt. ]]>

Comment by sharky on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Tue, 17 May 2005 13:49:54 EDT

Sydney. How am I dangerous exactly? And I've got an "agenda"? LOL It is clear from your second outburst that: 1. you are anti-Amreekan 2. you are anti-Pakistani as well. Methinks you're the one with the "Agenda" (I love that word). You are taking my comments on the Guantanamo unwashed far too personally. I wonder why? ]]>

Comment by Joe on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Tue, 17 May 2005 12:21:49 EDT

They have ego compelxes and they play arm-chair politics with the rest of teh world. This is a typical American Trait. ... appears to be a Pakistani trait, too. ]]>

Comment by sydney on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Tue, 17 May 2005 11:20:08 EDT

Victor Plenty, Thanks for making my point for me. Exactly as I Was saying, All muslims are different and Sharkey's blathering on about what they do and they dont do is rediculous. "Sharky, please pay no heed to Sydney's discourtesy. Apparently some people haven't yet realized, not all Muslims everywhere are exactly identical." Well said.. And yes I was rude in making my point because people Sharkey are dangerous. They deserve to be told where to go because they dont think through the implications of all tehir bullshiting. They have ego compelxes and they play arm-chair politics with the rest of teh world. This is a typical American Trait. The world is their oyster.. or so they think. I don't comment on spiritual lives of Muslims cause I don't know about it. Clearly Sharkey doesnt either. he's just spreading sphosims and misconceptions in an effort to legitmize his own agenda. ]]>

Comment by sharky on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Tue, 17 May 2005 04:30:46 EDT

There we go. EVApilot explained it better than I was doing. Today's paper has an interview of a Guantanamo returnee who is now rotting in our prison. He claims it is standrad practice to stomp on the Koran, tear it up, toss it in the toilet, etc. This thing has been going on since the very start of the "war on terror" and is used to check people's reactions. If someone protests, they are labeled a "fanatic". This how they catagorize people. Funny... thats never going to work right if indeed that is whats been happening. Different people will react differently for all kinds of reasons. Like I said, its amateurish. He then also goes on to say all kinds of funny stuff that doesn't make sense. Read all about it: http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/may2005-daily/17-05-2005/main/main2.htm Getting back to the riots in Afghanistan.... what I don't understand is WHY did the Afghans attack Pakistan's embassy? What did we do to them NOW? ]]>

Comment by EVApilot on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Tue, 17 May 2005 01:25:53 EDT

The fact that you're covered in shit by a prison interrogator means that God wouldn't mind if you skipped a prayer, in fact it would be forbidden for you to pray according to the four main schools of thought. That someone would very much like to pray is what drives them up the wall. There'd be hell to pay if a prison guard flushed a Douglas Adams down the toilet though. ]]>

Comment by Victor Plenty on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 20:32:09 EDT

Sharky, please pay no heed to Sydney's discourtesy. Apparently some people haven't yet realized, not all Muslims everywhere are exactly identical. Sharky can have significantly different views from Sydney's roommate, and both of them can still be quite sincere believers in Islam. Most readers here are able to deal with the resulting ambiguities without becoming rude about it. Now, if whatever Sydney's attempting to say can be backed up with more detailed reasoning and references, we might have a basis for discussion. As it stands, we're all best off politely ignoring Sydney's outburst. ]]>

Comment by sydney on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 19:51:02 EDT

Shut up Sharky. I just had my roomate, a muslim, read over your posts and she says she doesnt knwo what the fuck your talking about. Frankly it seemed obvious to me that you didnt, but I had her verify for me. ]]>

Comment by SFC SKI on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 18:04:34 EDT

I believe that the toilets the detainees use a t GITMO are the Western style sit and flush type. You know, years before I went to the ME, I saw a documentary explaining that the squat style toilets mere more natural and hygenic, etc. Well, in reality, they are uncomfortable, often filthy, reeking holes in the ground, and this is in the bathroom of a university, not a gas station. ]]>

Comment by sharky on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 14:37:27 EDT

No, you can pray at any time. I meant the formal prayers... the bowing in the direction Mecca.. that one. One can do those too, actually. But some muslim fanatics come with a certain kind of arrogance. Its hard to put into words... Its like the "arrogance" of some people you might see in a church for example. They have a "holy expression"... a stern look. Such people won't ever pray if they're covered in shit. And if they do pray, they would like to do that alone... not standing in line in a congregation (one gets used to one's own stink but not to the stink of others). At the very least it would produce a climate of isolation... always of great importance if you want to crack a fellow. ]]>

Comment by Nancy on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 13:48:29 EDT

Well...shit would have that effect on me, too, Muslim or not. Obviously when it comes to torture, moderns are rank amateurs compared to the old-time guys of history. Red pepper up the bum? That's a new one. I knew it killed if you got it in your eyes, but your bum? Question - respectfully: why can't you pray if you're dirty? I mean, I could see if you were deliberately dirty of your own volition and hadn't cleaned yourself up if you had the opportunity, but if you're in the hands of the enemy, it isn't your fault, and you can't get clean, you mean Muslims believe God won't listen? That's harsh. ]]>

Comment by sharky on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 13:42:08 EDT

Yes, its a very large book. And another thing... what are they doing hanging on to a Koran for? People in our prisons aren't given Korans to keep. I'm sure there would be a few in the prison library, but never in a cell. The Koran isn't needed for them to pray... the prayers are always recited from memory. And to answer another of your points... I've never been to Afghanistan but I assume they don't have the modern flush toilets you might have in mind? I *think* they do it in an outhouse latrine.... in a hole in the ground. That hole would swallow an elephant. Maybe thats the kind of toilet they imagine in Guantanamo? If you know of our history, you would know that Pakistan and India were one country and part of the British Empire. Unile the Americans of today, the British knew how to handle people. If they found a bunch of people protesting, they would throw shit on them. By the ton. The beauty of this technique is that it works on both Hindus and Muslims. If they caught one trouble-maker they would put red chilli powder on a bamboo stick and ram it up your bum. The guy behaved after this. An islamic type we just caught, swears that the Pakistan Army people questioning him, forced-fed him with human shit. And if you smell of shit, you can't pray. And missing a few prayers will drive an islamic type fellow, up the wall. The people at Guantanamo seem like amateurs. ]]>

Comment by Nancy on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 12:49:45 EDT

I was going to observe (but Cerulean beat me to it) that from all the copies of the Koran I've ever seen, flushing one down the toilet would be impossible. That's one large book. And even flushing a miniature, portable version would be impossible what with the current state of plumbing, in my experience from having once accidently dropped a tiny pocket-version new testament into a john as it was going down. So the next rhetorical question is, why hasn't this obvious fact beamed on any of these idiots (and I include the halfwits at Newsweek first and foremost there!)? Now if someone had claimed they'd dropped a copy down into a port-a-potty, that would be possible. But a toilet? I also consider that if I were a prisoner somewhere, and someone tried to flush a copy of the bible - or any book, for that matter - I'd probably laugh in their faces. It certainly wouldn't 'shake' me. Even for CIA/FBI types, that seems a little naive, pointless, and idiotic. BTW, welcome, Sharky. Nice to hear from the other side of the world, even if you ARE in a megopolis! ]]>

Comment by Shark on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 12:39:35 EDT

Note: "Sharky" is not "Shark" Thanks The Management PS: re. "U.S. interrogators at Guant�uamo prison...placed the Qur'an on toilet seats..." I've wiped my ass with the Bible, but I always heard the Koran was considered "the scratchy kind". Anyone have personal experience? ]]>

Comment by Dave Nalle on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 11:34:53 EDT

Nice to have you here, Sharky. Now if we could just get a Newsweek insider on here to explain what goes on in their pea-sized brains... Dave ]]>

Comment by SFC SKI on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 08:44:37 EDT

Thanks for the background. ]]>

Comment by sharky on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 08:40:48 EDT

The spark was apparently lit at a press conference held on Friday, May 6, by Imran Khan, a Pakistani cricket legend and strident critic of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf. Brandishing a copy of that week's NEWSWEEK (dated May 9), Khan read a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantᮡmo prison had placed the Qur'an on toilet seats and even flushed one. "This is what the U.S. is doing," exclaimed Khan. ]]>

Comment by sharky on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 08:31:01 EDT

In this part of the world, if any protest doesn't have more than a few thousand people involved, its seen as a failure. I haven't heard of any muslim cleric dying... And even if one did.. good riddance. As for Afghanistan, it was our fault as much as Newsweek's. All Afghans listen to Pakistani radio and read our newspapers (believe or not, we've got a free press). Now Mr.Imran Khan... a Member of Parliament... gets in a foul mood and makes a speech in the Lower House waving a copy of Newsweek.... He gets on radio and TV.. any channel that will have him.. and shouts bloody murder. Afghans listening to our radio went nuts. Mr.Khan can be very persuasive. He also hates President Mushi of Pakistan... he blames him for putting a strain on his personal life witch lead to his wife leaving him... or something. Point is, this man takes every chance to try and bring down the President... and since President Mushi is seen as a good friend of the US, Mr.Imran Khan will also use any and every oppurtunity to poop on the US as well. Why don't we throw Mr.Khan into jail? We can't. Its a free country after all and he has a right to say what he likes. He hasn't broken any laws... yet. ]]>

Comment by SFC SKI on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 06:59:05 EDT

Welcome sharky, I would love to here more from your corner of the world. I think the riots were more in Afghanistan regarding the Koran, but there were riots in Pakistan over a Muslim clerics death in another unrelated matter. The problem wiht Newsweek's irresponsible journalism is that they then had to retract it, but many beelive the retraction is either part of a cover up or other US governmental pressure. I'd hope that most of us in the West can laugh that off, but in countries where the press is government controlled, rumors like that spread more rapidly and are believed, and built upon by any who have an axe to grind against the US. Some of the crazy rumors that get published in newspapers around the world can be laughable, but this is not one of them. I agree that the problem lies more with those who would incite riots, but Newsweek only gave them more fuel for their fires. If American soldiers had shot 15 protesters, it would get much more press than the half-hearted retraction Newsweek has offered. I don't mean to call for censorship or get down on the press, but they undoubtedly do print far more negative stories than positive, how can that be considered either balanced, or objective? Did anyone see the NYT article related to this underreprting posted last week? ]]>

Comment by Cerulean on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 06:48:12 EDT

Now if I could get Muslim extremists to go after the people that make us have low flush toilets, that would be worth something. ]]>

Comment by Cerulean on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 06:39:59 EDT

I just saw how Newsweek is supposed to have published false information. This whole thing looks strange to me and I can't help but wondering who is behind it and what they hope to gain from it. First of all, the abuses at that military prison didn't apparently get a response like this and I find it strange that reportedly flushing some sheets of paper down the toilet, even if it is their holy book, would cause the deaths of fifteen people. Has anyone tried flushing anything down the toilet lately? It's not even possible with these low flush toilets. It's strange that this controversial information was from an administration source. Then it was supposedly definitively refuted, but how? How do you definitively know that this didn't happen? It's impossible to prove a negative. Why would the denial of this happening by military sources be taken as Word? CNN was so definite about this not happening but they gave no supporting information. Nevertheless, the CNN reporter was heavily scolding Newsweek for their lack of journalistic scruples. That's a bit much. Why would this little item in Newsweek get such heavy exposure in faraway Muslim countries? That whole thing looks curious. It could be a distraction, it could be an excuse, it could be an attempt to discredit someone, or disempower them, or ruin their confidence, or take them off the tack of a larger story. If those riots weren't even really about what they said they were, would the American press really have enough smarts to know it or the guts to speak up? ]]>

Comment by sharky on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Mon, 16 May 2005 00:45:26 EDT

I'm from Karachi, Pakistan and I didn't see any demos or people protesting.... but then Karachi is one hell of a large city. I think some people did get killed in Afghanistan? We also know very well how our religious types will lie at the drop of a hat. It is more than likely that all this story was a lie by a fanatic, and Newsweek, the silly buggers that they are, lost control of their bowels and let it all go. Newsweek dosn't have a very good reputation for accuracy, as it is. I also agree that the US is doing very badly in the PR department. People are quite ready to believe the worst of the Americans without giving them the benefit of the doubt. ]]>

Comment by Victor Plenty on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Sun, 15 May 2005 21:24:43 EDT

The free press is both a strength and a weakness of democratic societies. A weakness, because sometimes a prominent news outlet makes a major mistake with dire consequences. A strength, because such mistakes can be corrected through later, more careful reporting. A prominent retraction on the part of Newsweek would certainly be a good idea here. The more prominent, the better. However, it's not really the fault of any reporters or editors that some people are fanatical enough to react with public violence (violence which, by the way, mostly ended up harming their fellow fanatics) at the news of some bad behavior by people they already consider infidels anyway. ]]>

Comment by Pete Blackwell on Guantanamo Detainees: Terror War in the Toilet

Sun, 15 May 2005 19:15:45 EDT

Nice work, Newsweek. A bunch of people died because of their story. This underlines my main point, though: the US needs more than just military victories, they need to do a better job of convincing the Muslim world that they don't hate them and their religion. It really sucks that Newsweek has made this harder to do. They better play up their retraction in a major way. ]]>