The Eurocrats are anal, but it cannot be denied that over-weening nationalism was a primary cause of the rise to power of the National Socialists, and the sense of humiliation post the Weimar Republic, of course.

On a lighter note, this was the Scotsman's Euro-joke on April 1

True enough, Aaman. But suggesting that modern desires to preserve some national identity are akin to nazism is pretty outrageous.

Good April fools link, though. Just believable enough to make you wonder.

Dave

re: >>suggesting that ... desires to preserve ... national identity are akin to nazism is ... outrageous<<

Phooey. The kinship is obvious in Europe where nationalist (anti EU) arguments are used to fuel neonazi movements. It would have been 'outrageous' if no one had brought the connection up.

Mark

MDE, there's an enormous difference between wanting England to remain England and preserve its system of law and government - a system substantially different from the rest of Europe - and wanting to conquer the rest of Europe and force it under a single totalitarian rule.

What caused the world wars was not nationalism, but pan-nationalism, the desire to unify all people of a single linguistic group into one nation - in that case Germans, and totalitarianism which required ongoing warfare to sustain support for extremist governments and bring in new resources to feed giant war machines.

The similarity between that scenario and some guys who want to preserve their right to tiral by jury is pretty tenuous.

Dave

um, make that 'trial by jury'.

Dave

No one sums up what is happening in Europe better than Mark Steyn:

"...Because Texans, Vermonters and Georgians all agree that they're Americans, they're happy to go their own way in matters of capital punishment, income tax, gay civil unions: that's a dynamic, creative federalism. Because Greeks, Scots and Austrians still regard each other as foreign, a European identity has to be imposed from top down, as if by harmonizing tax codes and passport design you can harmonize a bunch of foreigners into one nationality, regulate a European consciousness into being: that's not federalism, but a stagnant over-centralization".

Good quote, Danny. What I really want to know is who the hell really thinks formalizing the EU bureaucracy with a Constitution is a good idea and why?

It seems like most of the countries got the economic leg up they needed from the creation of the EC and the Euro. What does anyone gain by adding another level of bloated and overpaid bureaucracy on top of their already existing governments?

I mean besides more taxes and fewer rights.

Dave

"I hate to write another article on the bizarre doings in the EU so soon after the last one - some people already think I'm a europhobic loon" WELL DAVE; you do keep kicking Europe whenever you can, so what exactly should we think?

"Not passing the EU Constitution would risk a return to the Holocaust because it would be a victory for 'nationalistic pride' and that national sovereignty was largely responsible for the rise of Nazism and WW2" DAVE, there has never been a large scale war in the United States, yet (though Balkanisation is a constant risk for your increasingly divided country, LOL), so maybe it's hard for you to understand the concept, but given that there are several small wars simmering away in a Europe at peace, who knows how difficult things would become if the EU started fracturing?

"So, if you don't want your country to be part of the EU you're basically a proto-Nazi." DAVE, again, making excessive comments like this DOES go a long way to re-inforcing the view that you always look to diss the European infrastructure. Like the USA is such a good example...

"The EU Commissioners declaration of VE Day as 'Yes' day for the EU Constitution, suggesting that the best way to honor the dead of WW2 would be to vote 'yes' on the Constitution. They also gave the European nations sole credit for ending the Cold War with no mention of the United States or NATO - DAVE, the United States was PAID to fight in WW2 (and almost sided with Germany, by the way) and NATO wasn't even formed until 1949 !!

"and managed to anger the Russians by openly complaining about the fact that they had enslaved half of Europe for 40 years after WW2 ended." And that's not true? Oh yes it is, lookout a Pol told the truth!

It's true, there is a democratic deficit in Europe (but then the same is true of the United States and you've had over 200 years to work the kinks out) so it may not be a total surprise that "All of this has helped to fuel dissatisfaction with the EU and it's new Constitution, especially in Britain, where there is a great deal of concern over the undemocratic character of the EU government, the high salaries of its leaders, the attack on national sovereignty and the lack of answerability of officials under the new Constitution." DAVE: The EU is in transition, most people involved are looking to increase the democratic accountability and reduce the role of the Commission. The new Constitution is a step in that direction. These things take time.

"I also came away from all of this impressed and sort of amused by how the EU's government is run. The commissioners seem surprisingly available to debate on the internet, and naively defensive about the Constitution and some of the positions they've taken. In a way it's refreshing, but it also makes them look strangely amateurish compared to the much more reserved and inaccessible politicians we have here in the US. There's no question that they believe in the altruism and goodness of their one-Europe philosophy and also that they clearly have no understanding at all of why so many people aren't happy with their methods or their goals." DAVE: You can't compare Apples and Oranges and you can't compare an unelected and temporary Commission with those towering pillars of democracy to be found in the US Congress and Senate. Mind you, I'll take European naivety and enthusiasm over American cynicism and arrogance anyday.

I hope that, within my lifetime, a new United Europe will emerge, one that will play an increasingly important role on the world stage, and act as an effective counterbalance to the excesses of the Americans. Maybe that's what is really bugging you and others resistant to the new Europe that is emerging..?

Hello. I see you have swallowed the story from the Daily Telegraph (not the Mirror) hook, line and sinker.

If you read Margot Wallstrom's speech you will find no mention of the Constitution anywhere.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/commission_barroso/wallstrom/pdf/speech_20050508_en.pdf
Likewise, if you read the declaration of the Commission (on 9 May, Europe Day, not VE Day) you will find no mention of honouring war dead by voting for the Constitution.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/commission_barroso/president/pdf/statement_20050509_en.pdf

You also say some of the commentators in Margot Wallstrom's blog are "blatant shill posters recruited by the EU Commissioners."
I manage Margot Wallstrom's blog and can assure you that nobody has been recruited to make comments in it. Yes, 3 or 4 European Commission officials comment in it occasionally, but as private citizens (1 of them is even a Eurosceptic). In contrast, some of the regular commentators are certainly members of political parties and groups opposed to the EU.

Also for info, 'Eurocrat' is generally regarded as a term of abuse aimed at people who work for the EU institutions. 'Eurosceptic' is a word invented by the British media to describe political opponents of the EU in Britain. You say "It also seems to be standard procedure to immediately attempt to label anyone who is opposed to the EU as a member of some neo-Nazi group"
That would be funny if you knew how many comments and emails we receive from opponents of the EU which equate the EU with Hitler, dictatorship, Stalinism, Third Reich etc.