Blogcritics: Comments on To The Pain ... Girlhood in America

Comment by Eric Berlin

Tue, 10 May 2005 17:14:55 EDT

It does make you stand back and appreciate those (any?) family members you have who are both sane and generally pleasant to be around.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Tue, 10 May 2005 17:13:21 EDT

Families are tough. They're a package deal, and sometimes it would be better if they were like a Whitman Sampler and you could give the nuts to someone else.

Comment by swingingpuss

Tue, 10 May 2005 16:43:02 EDT

lol, I understand what you are saying Eric:)

Comment by Eric Berlin

Tue, 10 May 2005 16:31:53 EDT

Swinging -- While you may be right, you've never met my step-dad... Not fun.

Comment by swingingpuss

Tue, 10 May 2005 16:27:04 EDT

Eric, cranky men are still easier to deal with than women. They dont brood or sulk for days and than bang, bite you when you arent looking. It's really bloody when it comes to cat fights. Nicolette, when I gave birth to my son my MIL kept telling me how her daughter brought her kids up and I should do as she does and take tips from her. When both mother and daughter visited us last spring they made it clear that I wasnt a good mom nor a good house keeper. I just let it ride and even now I get to hear that she is a better mom, wife and cook. And all I think is balls...heh Mean girls do grow up to be mean women.

Comment by Eric Berlin

Tue, 10 May 2005 16:10:11 EDT

That's a great quote, swingingpuss. Reminds me of the other day, listening to Howard Stern. He was recalling how miserable Family Time used to be with his cranky father, particularly during Family Dinner. Man, I related to that.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Tue, 10 May 2005 15:52:16 EDT

Oh, I feel an idea coming on...

Comment by swingingpuss

Tue, 10 May 2005 15:50:28 EDT

My MIL believes in 'Covert operation'. Initially her subtle barbs used to bug me but after 4 years of marriage I developed a thick hide. EricB, here is a qoute for you- Family vacations are trips we take with people we most need to get away from.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Tue, 10 May 2005 15:49:37 EDT

Every time my MIL talks about how funny Everbody Loves Raymond is, it takes an extraordinary effort to not ask if she doesn't see Marie Barrone as her long lost twin. It's eery. Her battle with me went back burner when my SIL gave birth to a son, and named him after my dead FIL. Apparently my MIL feels the child is suffering unduly because of all the organic food, and the lack of soda. :)

Comment by Eric Berlin

Tue, 10 May 2005 15:41:44 EDT

It's just amazing to me how hateful and harmful people can be -- particularly to those they are "close" with. Think of the times that are supposed to bring the most closeness: weddings, family gatherings, holidays... and the nightmare they are for so many. Maybe I'm exaggerating... but I don't think I am. Sorry for the drift off-topic.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Tue, 10 May 2005 15:38:02 EDT

I don't have a good relationship with my MIL, and she declared war for a while a few years ago. My husband just could not believe the level of anomosity she had toward me, or how hard I could fight back when pushed. I'd wanted a close relationship but she's deemed me unworthy of her son, and That was That. So when she finally let loose it was almost welcome that the dislike which was in her not-so-subtle digs was out in the open. The upshot was I did not show up on the holidays which cut down on the time my husband spent there... Like I said, women can form strong bonds, but they also are usually quite adept if they don't like you. Did I read once that women prefer poison to murder someone? That seems right.

Comment by swingingpuss

Tue, 10 May 2005 15:25:56 EDT

Girl politics many a times translates into women politics and the tug of war tends to become more subtle. Take the mother in law and daughter in law relationship for example. It's a never ending chess game, one trying to top the other. Personally I never had any issues with any of my female friends till I got married and realized what female politics was all about. Men generally are less complicated in their thinking and emotional make up, plus most like to stay away from domestic intrigues.

Comment by Eric Berlin

Mon, 9 May 2005 17:33:44 EDT

Do men befriend women as a break from competition? I think there's something to that on both sides, though I believe there's also a degree of attraction in most cases. But that's the same in all relationships, isn't is -- platonic and sexual. We choose our friends for a number of reasons -- we like to be around them, they have admirable qualities, etc. In most cases we wouldn't befriend a person if we thought them to be hideous in some way.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Mon, 9 May 2005 17:33:23 EDT

By power you mean the ability to persuade, manipulate, and torture men with the use of certain body parts?

Comment by jadester

Mon, 9 May 2005 17:15:00 EDT

it may be true to a degree - in that a bloke can have female friends who, as far as he is aware, he has no sexual interest in, but we don't always know our unconscious desires. Same goes for women, i suppose. I can't speak for the other side, but as a bloke with female friends (as in, platonic friends) it helps to understand women alot more if you have women friends who can talk to you actually from their perspective. As opposed to just loads of blokes guessing. From what I've heard and observed of both genders, it's generally easier to be a bloke, but if you're a woman you can potentially have far more power.

Comment by SFC SKI

Mon, 9 May 2005 17:13:42 EDT

I'd say any man who tells you he hasn't at least considered it is lying.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Mon, 9 May 2005 17:02:12 EDT

***I don't think men befriend women to get away from the competition, but I can only answer for myself. first and foremost, there is some element of attraction, but that is a minor component.*** So when Harry tells Sally that men always want to bang their friends...it's true?

Comment by SFC SKI

Mon, 9 May 2005 16:59:50 EDT

Several of my female friends have said exactly that, they like hanging out with men to get away from the cattiness of women. I don't think men befriend women to get away from the competition, but I can only answer for myself. first and foremost, there is some element of attraction, but that is a minor component. I think that having female friends just offers a different perspective than male friends do.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Mon, 9 May 2005 16:50:42 EDT

Speaking of the grass being greener...I think a lot of women befriend men to avoid the aforementioned politics. Do men befriend women as a break from competition? (If the interest is not romantic, of course.)

Comment by Eric Berlin

Mon, 9 May 2005 15:27:03 EDT

jadester - The point I was trying to make (possibly) is that the grass looks greener from the other side. I'm not sure if growing up is any easier for boys or for girls.

Comment by Eric Berlin

Mon, 9 May 2005 15:26:13 EDT

Nicolette -- Vert difficult, to answer your question. Some with outstanding personalities will develop into "characters" or artsy types cool enough so that it doesn't matter. But I would say age 13 and younger, sports means a hell of a lot in guy-world. I have no idea if the infiltrations of computers and technology and games makes a difference today. They were just starting to come in when I was a kid... but not quite cool enough to keep you indoors 24/7.

Comment by jadester

Mon, 9 May 2005 15:13:40 EDT

i dunno about the blokes i don't know (obviously) but those I *do* know, along with myself, are well aware of this. And this is in Britain, so it's not just in America... generally, it can be summed up as: bloke arguments escalate until there's some sort of physical showdown. That clears the air, and at least after about the age of 16, both sides will generally do the sensible thing and stay away from each other. Arguments between women, however, tend to get real "bitchy", real rivalries develop, and of course there are the real nasty ones who go out of their way to be evil... Of course, there are plenty of exceptions, but then this is just a generalisation. I would much prefer to be bullied by blokes than bullied by women. Women have the capacity to be so much nastier

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Mon, 9 May 2005 15:02:09 EDT

Can a guy be bad at sports and not be instantly shuffled into the geek category?

Comment by Eric Berlin

Mon, 9 May 2005 14:58:06 EDT

Yeah, I wasn't trying to compare, just saying boys go through their own trials. I do realize that girls do get into physical scuffles, but boys go through an unending series of physical challenges -- from the athletic field leading up to acting just tough enough not to end up the school's kicking post. So it's not the fighting so much as the constant threat or challenge to violence that is a large part of growing up as a male. I'd allege that that is somewhat comparitive to the social arena of combat girls face. Well, I'm comparing I suppose! I might be completely wrong -- just throwing out a thought, a possibility here.

Comment by Nicolette Rivers

Mon, 9 May 2005 13:24:40 EDT

Right. I never wanted this to be about saying boys don't have their own battles. It's not easy to be human *period.* I do know that the physical fights I got into were forgotten much sooner than the covert stuff. If it's not too personal, what type of battle scars tend to stay with men? Is it the physical fights they won or lost? Verbal slights? One of the points the books above make is that girls would probably be much better off if they could express their aggression. Instead they try to suppress directly telling people when they have an issue with them, and it's more damaging for all the parties in the long run.