OPINION

Is Swedish Democracy Collapsing?

Written by Fjordman
Published May 05, 2005
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An important part of the explanation is the role of mass media in Sweden. Not a single TV-program, radio program or big newspaper would give space to critics of the multicultural project. "Sverigedemokraterna" - a party outside the Parliament - can seldom hold meetings without being hassled by political hooligans, who make noise, destroy equipment or even resort to violence. There are no reactions to this in mass media, nor from the police. As Helle "Hamas" Klein, political editor of Sweden's largest newspaper Aftonbladet, boasts: "If the debate is going to be about whether there are problems with immigrants, we don't want it". Welcome to Sweden, the country where the media doesn't even pretend to champion freedom of speech, but openly brags about censorship. At the same time, leading media figures could even voice sympathy for the terrorists who slaughtered at least 150 innocent children in Beslan. Hans Bergström, former editor-in-chief of Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter, worries that Sweden has become "a one-party state". An examination of the selection of books bought to Swedish libraries showed that literature with a leftist perspective outnumbered books with a conservative or right-wing perspective four to one. The Nyköping branch of the Swedish National Labour Market Administration, the catchy English designation for the dreaded job centre, decided it would get its job-seekers out of the house for a while. Using an old trick beloved of authoritarian states such as Cuba, the Administration told unemployed construction workers that if they did not attend a demonstration in favour of collective agreements, it would assume they were in gainful employment and their benefits would be duly withdrawn. "Attendance at the meeting is compulsory. If you do not attend, I will take it for granted that you are fully occupied and no longer seeking employment through the Labour Market Administration. You will be removed from the unemployment register and your unemployment benefits will cease."

How does the Swedish political elite respond to their largest cities breaking down? By pretending there is no problem. The media elite shares the same contempt for and fear of the common people, and has largely played along. Some Swedes have compared Swedish media to Pravda in the old Soviet Union. Cracks are beginning to emerge, though. This article in the newspaper Expressen about Prime Minister Göran Persson's visit to Malmö during May Day is brimming with sarcasm, presenting him as a modern Swedish version of clueless Marie Antoinette:

Swedish Prime Minister Göran Persson, surrounded by a dozen body guards, took part in the May Day demonstrations in the city of Malmö. "It is a splendid celebration, a manifestation of freedom and security", Persson says. Meanwhile, a couple of blocks from there, a handicapped man is beaten to the ground by a group of thugs. The victim was about to demonstrate under the slogan "Welfare is most important". Now he is kicked in the face and the chest. When two of the assailants are finally taken into police custody, the man is terrified and suffering from severe pains. "This is one of Sweden's finest meeting places," says the Prime Minister as he enters the platform after listening to Socialist anthem The Internationale. "In a Malmö I love. Sweden's face to the world." Persson doesn't notice that the police are taking action against a neo-Nazi counterdemonstration nearby. "Open to the winds of the world lies my fair country," says Persson. "There is no greater freedom than security. A society with clean air, clean water and safe people, open to the world.". It's 3.3o pm and a police patrol is cutting down a doll resembling a politician being hanged, carrying a photo of Malmö's Mayor Ilmar Reepalu. The Prime Minister has just promised improved dental care for young people, and concludes: "Look up! The fabulous fact is that the sun is breaking through." The police and the fire department get an alarm. The Örtagård school in Rosengård, an area of Malmö with close to 100 % Muslim immigrants, is burning yet again. Several police patrols are called out. But Prime Minister Persson has already been escorted by special security police into his bulletproof Volvo, on his way back to the Cabinet's private jet and out of Malmö.

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Is Swedish Democracy Collapsing?
Published: May 05, 2005
Type: Opinion
Section: Politics
Filed Under: Politics: International
Writer: Fjordman
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Comments

#1 — May 5, 2005 @ 06:58AM — Eric Olsen

wow, powerful and important information - thanks and welcome Fjordman. Norgies rule!

#2 — May 5, 2005 @ 08:21AM — SFC SKI

Good article.

#3 — May 5, 2005 @ 08:33AM — RJ [URL]

Great post! (And scary, too...)

#4 — May 5, 2005 @ 09:31AM — JR

Thought provoking, but it also comes off as a bit of a partisan rant. Not sure how serious I should take this.

#5 — May 5, 2005 @ 09:50AM — Dave Nalle [URL]

It's interesting to see how quickly a completely controlled society can become once you introduce immigration into the mix. A country like the US or France or England which has been coping with immigration for centuries might have been able to handle this sort of situation, but Sweden has to have been completely unprepared for it and awfully vulnerable.

Dave

#6 — May 6, 2005 @ 01:33AM — TheAZCowBoy

Keep pulling the dog's tail and when he turns around and bites your face off - I'm sure you will understand why, right?

Muslims pray 5 times a day and they are't giving us the pedofiles, rapists, sodomizers and unmitigated perverts. Nor, the massacres like we saw at Abu Ghrib and GITMO. Many secret torture bases in Afghanistan and Diego Garcia. depleted Urainium caused cancer and 125,000 massacred civilian's in Iraq and Afghanistan, are they?

TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.

#7 — May 6, 2005 @ 02:20AM — Dave Nalle [URL]

I hesitate to even waste time on this, but I'm compulsive about the truth.

>>Muslims pray 5 times a day and they are't giving us the pedofiles, rapists, sodomizers and unmitigated perverts<<

Actually, all those crimes are as common in Moslem society as they are in western society, with the addition of honor killings and honor rapes.

>>. Nor, the massacres like we saw at Abu Ghrib and GITMO. <<

No one was massacred at either of these places - well Saddam massacred some people at Abu Ghraib - Abu Ghraib is a prison where some prisoners were abused. GITMO is where prisoners are being held without a trial.

>>Many secret torture bases in Afghanistan and Diego Garcia. depleted Urainium caused cancer <<

There's no scientific support for this theory, and no sign of significant depleted uranium pollution in Iraq either.

>>and 125,000 massacred civilian's in Iraq and Afghanistan, are they?<<

A completely innacurate figure. An accurate civilian body count would be closer to 30K for both countries together.

Dave

#8 — May 6, 2005 @ 04:47AM — shaghab

muslims cannot declare war on sweden at all.. coz it protects the muslims living in them.. and there are all kind of muslims and only some are extremists (and are made fool by some political-religeous assholes)..

But many of the muslims are trying to stick to the basics.. which is to have peace.. concept of jihad in islam has been terribly deformed by media and some idiot extremists..

If in that mosque they are spreading double meaning then its wrong.. Islam teaches to speak truth.. (double meaning words are considered lies).. If some muslim is not speaking truth then he is not muslim at all..

honor killing is not in Islam.. Its a social disease not religeous one.. Many non-muslims in indian subcontinent do that as well..

the ideal islamic political and social system has many thing in common with swedish system rather then with saudi government..

#9 — May 6, 2005 @ 05:26AM — Y.A.

This a "nice" piece of hatred propaganda full of non-sense.

#10 — May 6, 2005 @ 07:02AM — Tim Hall [URL]

Reading this post is like stepping in a dog turd.

I little googling shows that the white supremacist Stormfront.org is linking enthuisiastically to the original of this post.

It appears Fjordman has some racist friends...

Where is Mac Diva when we need her?

#11 — May 6, 2005 @ 07:57AM — Eric Olsen

I'm sure this IS a partisan rant, but are any of the facts disputed?

When discussing any groups we need to be very careful in distinguishing the beliefs and behaviors of subsets from that of the greater group, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss and condemn the behavior of those subsets.

#12 — May 6, 2005 @ 07:57AM — Shark

C'mon, Fjordman isn't a racist; he's only trying to protect the purity of his Aryan blood.


DaveNalle: "It's interesting to see how quickly a completely controlled society can become once you introduce immigration into the mix."

Huh?


#13 — May 6, 2005 @ 08:05AM — Eric Olsen

Islam isn't a race - what, spcifically, is "racist" in this post?

#14 — May 6, 2005 @ 08:12AM — Dave Nalle [URL]

Yes shark, there was a word missing in my sentence. Stick "unstable" in there somewhere - you pick the spot.

For what it's worth, regardless of his Aryan associations, the problems Fjordman is talking about are documented elsehwere as well. Check this article in The Weekly Standard one of the more trustworthy - if conservative - sources around.

Dave

#15 — May 6, 2005 @ 15:47PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

I can't control who links to my posts. Never had anything to do with white supremacists, never will. It should be mentioned that many of them have VERY good relations with Islamic organizations. They share the same hatred for Jews and democracy.

I also notice nobody has put the finger on anything specifically wrong in my article, they just don't like the conclusion.

No, I don't like Islam. What's racist about that? How does the Islamic race look like?

#16 — May 6, 2005 @ 15:52PM — SFC SKI

It's true, the instances cited here are backed up by reports of similar instances in several other European countries.

#17 — May 6, 2005 @ 16:17PM — Dave Nalle [URL]

Um, didn't Fjordman just make his last response under a rather remarkably racist nom de blog?

Dave

#18 — May 6, 2005 @ 16:31PM — Temple Stark [URL]

And didn't you just say immigration creates an unstable country? Simplistic to say the least.

In counties who don't like it - yes. The fear of immigration manifests itself greatly and first in hatred of race or ethnicity, not fear of lost jobs.
(Also simplistic but more truthful).

#19 — May 6, 2005 @ 16:44PM — Dave Nalle [URL]

I didn't say immigration creates an unstable country. I said it could destabilize a fragile political and economic system like they have in Sweden.

The US's stability is sort of built on immigration. Nothing wrong with it in the system we operate on. The same is true of most of the old colonial powers.

Sweden on the other hand, built their socialist paradise on the basis of a completely stable, even declining population and an economy which was basically self-sustaining with balanced trade and little growth. Everything was in perfect balance.

Large numbers of immigrants weren't factored into that perfectly balanced system and they threw it all out of wack.

Dave

#20 — May 6, 2005 @ 16:52PM — Temple Stark [URL]

Ok, that clarification is true. The statement remains simplistic, however.

#21 — May 6, 2005 @ 16:58PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"Um, didn't Fjordman just make his last response under a rather remarkably racist nom de blog?"

If you're referring to the term "kafir", then yes, it is hate speech. By Muslims against non-Muslims regardless of race. It means "infidel", and is extremely hateful and derogatory when used in the Koran. I just use the term to turn it upside down.

Temple: When it comes to immigration, it depends upon the immigrants. Islam is incompatible with all other religions and cultures on the planet. Importing Islam means democratic suicide. Europe is going to implode or explode if Muslim immigration continues as now.

#22 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:01PM — Dave Nalle [URL]

Odd, I'm only familiar with the term used in Afrikaans as a derrogatory slur against black Africans.

Dave

#23 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:06PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"I'm only familiar with the term used in Afrikaans as a derrogatory slur against black Africans."

I know that exists, but it is not the primary meaning. Go into any hardcore Muslim forum you want, and check the usage. The Arabic plural is "kuffar", infidels. The term "kafir" is used MANY times in the Koran, usually followed by something nasty or violent.

#24 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:08PM — gonzo marx

ok..just spent some time looking up crime statistics in sweden as best as i could since i don't really speak the language... quite a bit can be found in english..but sorting it all out is defineately more than a quick look kind of thing...

i can't seem to find anything about this "trend in school arson" the Author is speaking about...but there is plenty on anti-semitic arson...and even quite a few articles talking about mosque burnings...

definately something to be looked into, but hwat i have found so far tends to make me lean towards the idea that there are problems there, just not only the problems the author of the original Article is talking about...

before anyone gets into drawing conclusions from the disturbing prose set out here i think we would need some links to official statistics backing up the claims put forward, it has been more than 20 years since i was actually in Sweden so i cannot speak from my own experience in the matter...

however...reading the Article again, carefully..i do note not only that the Author has problems with Muslims, but that he seems to have even more issues with the Government and it's policies...

this makes me wonder...especially in light of the easily found statistical rise of criminal incidents stemming from "far right" groups ...

not enough data to draw complete conclusions...but enough for me to take this all with a big grain of kosher sea salt, eh?

Excelsior!

#25 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:14PM — Temple Stark [URL]

>>Islam is incompatible with all other religions and cultures on the planet. Importing Islam means democratic suicide. Europe is going to implode or explode if Muslim immigration continues as now.

Oops - evidence of a closed mind.

Sorry, I'm turning you off now.

#26 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:14PM — Dave Nalle [URL]

>>this makes me wonder...especially in light of the easily found statistical rise of criminal incidents stemming from "far right" groups ...<<

Um, Gonzo. Anti-semitism and anti-government positions are generally characteristic of far left groups even more than they are of far-right groups. Once you go out on the fringe you've got to start hating the Jews and Moslems regardless of your politics.

Dave

#27 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:21PM — gonzo marx

possibly, Mr. Nalle..but we are talking about Sweden fer Bog's sake..

about as middle of the road, semi-socialist/leftist government as you can speak of..

add to it the rhetoric utilized by the Article's author and it is simplicity itself to determine that he leans more radical right than left, eh?

according to the swedish BCA site..which seems to be their official statistics home, the vast majority of hate crimes committed stem from "neo-nazi" or other way looney "right" groups ...can't seem to find any violent "lefties" or Marxist groups anywhere

hence my tentative viewpoint...please feel free to show me if i have erred and i will glad to correct myself...as per usual

my whole Interest here stems from some wonderful times had in the country, and the great folks i met there...add in the fact that the nation had always be an excellent example of another system of governmental philosophy that actually worked for the benefit of it citizens...

well..you can see why the topic drew my interest, and i had to poke around a bit to try and determine the veracity of the claims made...

nuff said?

Excelsior!

#28 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:23PM — SFC SKI

I think a lot of the problem can be summed up in this way: There is a problem with some Muslim immigrants in Europe not willing to live by the laws and customs of the countries they immigrate to, but trying to bring the customs from their homelands and live by them in defiance of the laws of their new lands. Honor killings is just one of the extreme examples, but there are many others, both large and small that fly in the face of individual freedom and legal protection. It sounds alarmist to point these issues of non-assimilation out, but it is an issue that will need to be resolved at some point in time. I don't think it is as large an issue, maybe a non-issue in the US, but it is becoming a big topic of discussion, at least in Germany, France and the Benelux.
I don't agree that Islam is incompatible with democracy, but the extremists of Islam certainly are.

#29 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:35PM — gonzo marx

on the points you raise ya will get no argument form me, Ski

my problem was with the overlying implications and veracity of fact form the original Article's author

but i'm silly in the fact that i tend to frown on ALL kinds of "extremeism"

no matter what "brand" or "flavor"

Excelsior!

#30 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:38PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"I don't agree that Islam is incompatible with democracy, but the extremists of Islam certainly are."

I think both are, actually. The "extremists" just decide to follow Islamic teachings as they actually are.

I once-quiet Sweden, a man is now living in fear of his life for saying that Muhammad was a pedophile. He was. What else can you call a 54-year-old man having sex with a 9-year-old child? Muhammad did:

Aisha the Child Wife of Muhammad

#31 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:52PM — SFC SKI

The problem with discussing the issue on a religious level is that it degenerates into a theological pissing contest. What needs to be examined is how the practices of a culture go against the laws established in democratic pluralistic societies.

#32 — May 6, 2005 @ 17:56PM — gonzo marx

ummm...did you see the sex?

in arrainged marriages in many countries and cultures throughout all of human history there are many examples of wide age disparities..

the sex waits until the younger partner passes whatever "rite of passage" is appropriate for the culture , usually

as to what age is appropriate..that has varied culturally by quite a bit..

in judaism, after the bar/bat mitzvah one is considered "adult"..this "rite" happens when the subject is 13

now run along and look up the ages for Romeo and Juliet...

but i digress...

you are using out of context facts here to stir up problems and incite conflict

not good when you want to look like you are engaged in rational discourse..

minus 5 points

thanx for playing, please try again..

Excelsior!

#33 — May 6, 2005 @ 18:02PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"you are using out of context facts here"

No, I'm not. My point is that freedom of speech is now under threat in Sweden when a man, and in fact the whole country, gets threats for stating the truth. He said Muhammad was a pedophile. Islamic texts state he had sex with a child, 9 years old. This is highly relevant for the theme.

#34 — May 6, 2005 @ 18:05PM — SFC SKI

That is the other part of the problem, make one comment or use an extreme example as above, and a lot of people will automatically turn away from the rest of the issue.

One has to weigh one's words carefully in order to avoid this.

That isn't to say that there is not a problem and people would be unwise not to examine the issue.

#35 — May 6, 2005 @ 18:11PM — gonzo marx

i believe the Koran states that the child was one of his "wives" NOT that they had sex....

i can agree on the freedom of speech part completely

now, go into any christian church and say that Jesus was gay and liked to jerk off because he said "love thy Brother as thyself" and see how far you get before someone threatens to chastise you

see how easy it is to twist things?

you whole points seem to be that you don't like Muslims..fair enough...and that you don't like the Leftist government of Sweden..also fair enough

it's your command of the "Facts" as well as the faulty "Logic" used to draw your "Conclusions" that i am talking about here

link to the statistics alluded to in the Article and you will go a long way toward some parts of the Argument

until then it just reeks of well written Propaganda

and as a great Dane once wrote, "the Emperor is naked"

nuff said?

Excelsior!

#36 — May 6, 2005 @ 18:26PM — DrPat [URL]

Dave, the Afrikaans "kaffir" to refer to a black derives from the Arabic "kafir." In Southern Africa, the slave trade was often brokered by Arab traders, and they regarded every slave as an infidel.

The Boers picked up the word from them, but misunderstood its meaning, assuming it meant "black." "Kaffir" has much the same semantic freight in ex-colonial Africa as "nigger" has in the U.S.

#37 — May 6, 2005 @ 18:50PM — SFC SKI

In German, closely related to Afrikaans and Dutch, Kaefer is the common term for a beetle.

"now, go into any christian church and say that Jesus was gay and liked to jerk off because he said "love thy Brother as thyself" and see how far you get before someone threatens to chastise you"

A good, if extreme, example, I doubt that he'd be stabbed to death in the street and have a note celebrating and justifying his death pinned to him, as was done to Theo Van Gogh, or be forced to live in a jail cell for his own protection, as a Dutch pol currently is, nor do I think that the church as a whole would support his assalant's actions. No one takes the death sentence against Salman Rushdie serioulsy anymore, because it was finally rescinded, but only after about 5 years of him living in seclusion.

Like I said, don't ignore the issue because of a few extreme positions. I know we all have a tendency to do that here, the proof is in almost every political thread.

#38 — May 6, 2005 @ 23:43PM — Dave Nalle [URL]

>>according to the swedish BCA site..which seems to be their official statistics home, the vast majority of hate crimes committed stem from "neo-nazi" or other way looney "right" groups ...can't seem to find any violent "lefties" or Marxist groups anywhere<<

Some might argue that Neo-Nazis are ultra left rather than ultra right, but they're so ultra that they're in the gray area where left and right meet up again. In anycase, with Sweden being such a leftist society to start with it only makes sense that they would have right wing extremists. What have the lefties got to get up in arms about? They already won.

DrPat - that explanation of Kafir sounds about like what I assumed it was. Interesting derivation. The word is also in Persian in a slightly different form, as I recall. I wonder what the indo European root is and whether any words in English descend from it. A great puzzle to muse on as I fall asleep tonight.

As to the situation in Sweden, it seems to me that the Swedes more than most people in Europe are characterized by their love of conformity. They like to do the same things and live the same way and have everyone be as equal as possible. They're not inherently intolerant, they're just kind of caught up in a very culturally conservative mindset. Introducing foreigners with a different lifestyle and religion into that kind of society is bound to lead to problems.

Dave

#39 — May 7, 2005 @ 00:18AM — SFC SKI

Minor note, the spellings are simialr, the pronunciations are very different.
The Dutch/German is KAY-fer, the Arabic/Persian is ka-FEER. The Arabic defintion is apostate, heretic, infidel or unbeliever; there are Koranic verses that are used to justify killing non-Mulsims.

#40 — May 7, 2005 @ 01:42AM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"according to the swedish BCA site..which seems to be their official statistics home, the vast majority of hate crimes committed stem from "neo-nazi" or other way looney "right" groups ...can't seem to find any violent "lefties" or Marxist groups anywhere"

That's because violence and intimidation against rightwingers isn't considered a problem in the first place.....

#41 — May 7, 2005 @ 16:06PM — Shark

Dave, you are aware that if you go too far right and I go too far left, we meet in the middle on the other side of the orb -- which is a zone called "Facism"?

I'll buy the first round!

xxoo
S


#42 — May 7, 2005 @ 16:10PM — Shark

re. Sweden, Islam, etc

-- I have a few comments & concerns:

1) interbreeding with Arabic immigrants might be the end of the true blond.

2) Islam vs the West will be THE defining issue of the 21st century; it could be 'us' or 'them' -- and seeing as how they don't like sex, drugs, booze, women, and rock and roll, I say "FUCK 'EM."

3) I don't like any religions, but especially those that marginalize women.

4) Wait a sec! Islam allows sex with young girls? Holy shi'ite! SIGN ME UP!



#43 — May 7, 2005 @ 17:41PM — Dave Nalle [URL]

Shark, I'm constantly resisting the lure of Fascism. The main thing that keeps me away from it is the knowledge that if I'm not in charge it's probably not a good plan for a future government.

Dave

#44 — May 7, 2005 @ 19:40PM — RJ [URL]

I'm with you, DN.

After all, while I have perfect faith in myself to be a benevolent dictator, I cannot trust any other man to be one...

#45 — May 7, 2005 @ 20:00PM — Dave Nalle [URL]

Which is why :Libertarianism is perfect. Each of us gets to have a fascist dictatorship of our very own with one ruler and one subject.

Dave

#46 — May 8, 2005 @ 23:23PM — Shark

Nalle: "Libertarianism is perfect."

Having voted for the loser in the Presidential election for about the last 30 years, I feel better already:

In Nov. 04. only 3.2% of the voters choose "perfection."

And I thought I was marginalized.

#47 — May 9, 2005 @ 01:20AM — Dave Nalle [URL]

I think perfection is overrated, don't you, Shark?

Dave

#48 — May 9, 2005 @ 09:00AM — Martin J

As to the situation in Sweden, it seems to me that the Swedes more than most people in Europe are characterized by their love of conformity. They like to do the same things and live the same way and have everyone be as equal as possible. They're not inherently intolerant, they're just kind of caught up in a very culturally conservative mindset. Introducing foreigners with a different lifestyle and religion into that kind of society is bound to lead to problems." Im swedish myself.Like to comment on the generalization and the blog. Conformists yes, but who belives we think its good? And excuse me American middle-west uhmm? The above blog is purely racist/anti-religious/anti-people "I know nothing about", nothing else. Sure being full of prejudice is always a problem no matter what religion etc. Cristians in Sweden can be a pain in the ass, lots of people who arent cristian or secular in sweden dont like em. Being "frimicklare" in Sweden is connected to common sayings being very tightass and sneaky and prejudice against everyone not cristian. But this question is uniting everybody, everyone seems to "know" everything about muslims whithout talking etc with them. There are to much propaganda tryin to support USA in the whole issue. Were talking about a diversified group like Finland Norway Hungary whatever. You cant talk about "muslims". Its pure stupidity.

#49 — May 9, 2005 @ 17:56PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"The above blog is purely racist/anti-religious/anti-people "I know nothing about", nothing else."

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how the Islamic race looks like. And I know A LOT about Islam. You are most welcome to test me, if you want to.

#50 — May 9, 2005 @ 18:03PM — gonzo marx

i already did when i called you out on misquote of the Koran...but you neglected to talk about that one...

thank you for playing...try again

Excelsior!

#51 — May 9, 2005 @ 18:40PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"i already did when i called you out on misquote of the Koran"

First of all: I didn't quote the Koran, but the hadith. The fact that you don't know the difference tells me that you really don't know too much about Islam at all. Second of all, I didn't misquote anything. The link I provided brings you to direct quotes from the most important hadith. Several of them state quite specifically that Muhammad had sex with a child, 9 years old.

#52 — May 9, 2005 @ 18:52PM — gonzo marx

i see...so using a hadith for the baseline Postulate in your Argument works for you..fair enough, i stand partially corrected as far as where your source material comes from


after reading the page you linked to i see various discrepencies in them..but that is not relevant to the discussion...the translations you are quoting do state what you claim

my question here is, what does any of that have do do with the Topic of your "Article"?

other than that, i will just stick with what i outlined in my previous comments and leave you to your extremeist rantings..

Excelsior!

#53 — May 9, 2005 @ 19:02PM — SFC SKI

Gonzo, you should know that the Hadith are taken as equally important with the Koran in guiding a Muslim through life. Muslim religious scholars usee the Hadith in researching and defining their rulings, so using it is valid here.

It does relate to why the minister called Mohammed a pedophile, because this well known hadith is referenced by Muslims themselves.

#54 — May 9, 2005 @ 19:16PM — RJ [URL]

Mohammed WAS a pedophile, by comtemporary Western standards.

Of course, contemporary Muslim standards are vastly different, and are even moreso when you are talking about Islam from numerous centuries ago...

That being said, the massive influx of un-assimilated Muslims into Western Europe is very troublesome. For Europe.

Luckily, we in the US don't have that problem, at least on the same scale as Europe.

At least, not yet.

#55 — May 9, 2005 @ 19:24PM — Norwegian kafir [URL]

"my question here is, what does any of that have do do with the Topic of your "Article"?"

I've already answered that before. A man in Sweden is now living with death threats, and the entire Swedish nation with terror threats, after a statement that Muhammad was a pedophile. The point is that you just have to quote Islamic texts to see that it is true.

I see no point in arguing with you, as you both lack knowledge about the topic and ignore the answers I give.

#56 — May 10, 2005 @ 04:02AM — Dave Nalle [URL]

What I'm not clear on is why someone in a civilized society would go out of his way to insult his Moslem neighbors by calling Mohammed a pedophile even if the Koran does suggest it when looked at by modern readers. It's also implying that Islam approves of pedophilia, which it most certainly does not.

Death threats are an extreme reaction, true. But the original statement is extreme and offensive in its own right.

Dave

#57 — May 12, 2005 @ 12:29PM — Mannen

Temple Stark just can't wait until Eurabia finally becomes reality! =)

#58 — May 12, 2005 @ 13:19PM — swingingpuss [URL]

In most Eastern cultures child marriage was a social norm till the Western influences lead to the decrease in it's practice..

My best friend's grandmother was only eleven and her husband sixteen when their parents got them married and to call her grandfather a well respected lawyer at the Indian supreme court a paedophile is horrific.

To judge certain cultural practices that were previously a norm by modern standards serves no purpose.

Further more if in India these kinds of statements were made then we'd be in a perpectual state of communal riots.

It isnt so much about assimilation as about hurting a community's religious sentiments.

#59 — May 12, 2005 @ 13:27PM — gonzo marx

ok..i learned something about hadith so far..

i still don't see hwo that disqualifies my Questions..

i Ask..
*my question here is, what does any of that have do do with the Topic of your "Article"*

as it pertains to this statement about one of the Prophet's wives and how it relates to the demise of Swedish Democracy..

the Poster states..
*A man in Sweden is now living with death threats, and the entire Swedish nation with terror threats, after a statement that Muhammad was a pedophile.*

now..this is unfortunate in and of itself..it is always a bad thing when someone makes death threats..

my Point here, which has yet to be addressed is...

just HOW does some criminal making threats impede or diminish the institution of Democracy in Sweden?

such threats are criminal and should be punished...but i can't for the life of me understand how that affects the governmental institution of Democracy

and so, it appears to me..the Title of this Article is merely inflammatory rhetoric to draw attention to the Issues that the original Poster wants to rant about

no problem there, that's what blogs are for, and these comments are to discuss them

still doesn't mean that the headline title for this particular Article has ANYTHING to do with what he is talking about, and thus falls under the category of sensationalist propaganda

just my one sixth billionths of the worlds opinion

what's yours?

Excelsior!

#60 — May 12, 2005 @ 13:31PM — Steve S [URL]

just HOW does some criminal making threats impede or diminish the institution of Democracy in Sweden?

such threats are criminal and should be punished...but i can't for the life of me understand how that affects the governmental institution of Democracy

My thought on that gonzo is to equate it with the attack on judges in this country. There have been death threats against conservative judges who have ruled in favor of same-sex marriage and death threats against the judge involved in the Matt Hale case as well as the Schiavo case.

How can we count on the integrity and stability of the court system if a judge becomes afraid to make a ruling because his whole life will be turned upside down with bodyguards and the possibility of being attacked? Democracy suffers.

#61 — May 12, 2005 @ 15:02PM — gonzo marx

point taken Steve..but still, we are talking a criminal act that can be easily dealt with via the mechanism of Law Enforcement, as it should be

so the Postulate here is that because of these Threats the entire institution of democracy in Sweden is in peril?

i can see how it might cause some problems if the terror threats against the Nation are implemented...but there seems to be no evidence of that anywhere i can find....but merely because of the criminal act of threats against the individual that said these things to say that that is in some way destroying democracy is simply silly

yet that seems to be the goal of the Article's poster here..to stir up things against the semi-socialist government of sweden, which he does not like(his perogative in a democratic society)as well as against Islamic immigrants..

let me put it to you that his own ability to write and speak about these things with the slant he uses is ample evidence that democracy is alive and well in Sweden..

Excelsior!

#62 — May 12, 2005 @ 15:20PM — Steve S [URL]

and your point is taken as well, gonzo!

#63 — May 16, 2005 @ 22:38PM — skidd

To let these muslims stay in the country is a big mistake. They will outbreed you, and then they will take over your country. They will turn your free democratic homeland into another murderous totalitarian mullahtocratic hellhole. Goodbye Sweden.

#64 — June 2, 2005 @ 18:51PM — reality check

I take it the author is from an
anglo-saxon country (USA or UK) ?
I am and I have lived here for 6 years,
and its difficult for some from an
Anglo-saxon country to understand Sweden, since its seems similar but its so different.

As far I can see, there is little
interaction between immigrants and Swedes. You will see the Somali and
Kurd and whatever on the tram, and true
they will harass Swedish girls, but
you will never see them in the work
place. It is very difficult for an
outsider to get a job in Sweden (quite
how I managed I don't know), which
means most asylum seakers and muslims
face a life on unempolyment.
This does not indicate a racist society,
since most jobs are obtained through "contacts", Sweden in this respect
is a very feudal society.

Ultimately, only a finite number of
people can be supported before the
social security bill is too large,
and before that happens the Swedes will
shut the door, therefore there is
a glass ceiling to the muslim population. The Swedes are pragamatic
and not as happless as the author thinks.

The crime rate, rape rate does increase
when you have a muslim minority, its
a fact of life. You can control it by
"sharia" law i.e cut the balls off the
scum committing the rape, I sometime
wonder that their prophet new his better than we ever can and sharia
is the only sure way to control them.
Naturally, Saria cannot be applied
in a civillised society.
May Sweden the land of lovely girls
prosper for ever !!


#65 — August 7, 2005 @ 06:02AM — jeramie anne abrico [URL]

Can you please site a website regarding about socio-anthropology with the topics regarding deviance, social control levels of it and kinds and deviance. it's a pleasure to log-in on your website. and thank you. may god bleee you.

#66 — August 9, 2005 @ 04:29AM — Alexander

The article is based on some truth, but remember that it's just part of the truth....there are also lots of untold success stories and should not be neglected.
The world is not black or/and white, but there is infinite variation in between...let peace and understanding prevail...:-) your friend alex

#67 — September 22, 2005 @ 12:15PM — Renee

Swedish girls and young boys are the ones to worry about rape. Islam sees nothing wrong with the homosexual act with a young boy....he is not MASCULINE yet.....so this act is not forbidden to the adult male. Now if the adult male has a homosexual act with another adult male....well that is forbidden because they are both MASCULINE males. Now if a male can find another adult male who is femine and has no interest in males at all, well having sex with this adult femine male would be OK because he is not MASCULINE...just like the little boy.

Muslim males are constantly preoccupied with sex and the control aspect of sex! Now you swedish girls....and german girls....these mulim men love to sleep with you loose women...and you think you are so accepting of every race. The writing is on the wall.....Sweden will fall and become a Islamic State for the world to see what to avoid!

Good luck you beautiful blonde blue eye women.....blue burkas for you. Oh...how I will miss those sparkling eyes and glowing blonde hair.

#68 — September 22, 2005 @ 12:35PM — Bob A. Booey [URL]

But what about the Swedish bikini team?

Will NO ONE think of the hoes in this most difficult of times?

That is all.

#69 — March 30, 2006 @ 14:25PM — A swede

You are sick man!

#70 — April 18, 2007 @ 05:44AM — Mr. Right

Sweden is the worlds biggest hoax!
The reason why Sweden is a wealthy country, is because the Swedish criminal government is robbing African countries since 1956.

Sweden has more than 250000 psychos walking the streets, according to professor Leif GW Persson. The population of 9 million people makes this fact extraordinary. Many Swedish children are being stabbed to death by these psychos that are let out so the criminal government can save some money.

Sweden is the most dangerous country in Europe.

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