Outside of a few minor points, I think you are onto something.

"it's also a matter of national security.""I'd cut off the index finger of their right hand and deport them."

Not bad, and any time a President starts a war which INCREASES our odds of being attacked by terrorists, I think we should chop off his whole hand, after all, if he does it a couple of times, he won't be able to sign any more executive orders will he?

I am sure that the original tone of this coulumn was satirical, but since you reexamined the national security issue, BTP, do you think that there is not a problem with hostile agents crossing our borders, and are you not aware that there have been documented cases of this occuring since before this administration? I might add apparently fewer successful ones since Pres Bush took office, too.

IIPR's 12 Step Program For Ending Illegal Immigration

1. Increase funding for INS and Border Patrol.Read For Funding Ideas


2. Use military advice, and technology to AGGRESIVELY police borders.


3. Strengthen laws making it a felony to aid or abet illegal immigration or to hire illegal immigrants.


4. End all Federal, state, local benefits to illegal aliens, and make it impossible to get documentation here.
   


5. Require a certified photo id to vote, or get any kind of local, state, or federal benefit.
   


6. End the disgraceful practice of offering cheaper tuition for illegal immigrants than in-state taxpayers are charged.
   


7. Encourage and empower all levels of law enforcement to look for and apprehend illegal aliens.


8. Send Mexico a strong message - "Seal your borders or We Will!"


9. Cancel NAFTA


10. Withdraw from WTO


11. Cancel Free Trade of Americas Agreement (FTAA) plans


12. Announce a 90 Day Grace Period For Illegal Immigrants to Report To INS Facilities for deportation.
    
    Upon reporting, they would be photographed, fingerprinted, and generally hassled considerably less than your average air passenger or gun buyer. They would be told to return home and file a formal request for legal immigration. The earlier they show up the more favorably they would be considered for a green card. Make the selection process on the basis of what kind of skills or background they "bring to the table".
    
    
    
    
    For those who choose not to report to the INS, and are later apprehended, they will be deported and put on a Persona Non Grata list never to be allowed entry into the US again - for any reason.

hmm, draconian, rather bad for international PR. Might be a few civil liberty issues involved as well: the courts have found even illegal aliens have some rights. Sean, why do you withdraw from NAFTA and WTO? Is the illegal immigrant problem worth sabotaging our economy?

as always, my tone was indeed satirical. but only to make a point about how complicated, and undecided, i am about this issue.

i know something has to be done, and i know the "inabisina" amnesty program put forth by the president is a bad idea, but after that i'm lost.

i was just hoping this would spark some good discussion about realistic ways to deal with this problem.

maybe citizens' groups such as the minuteman project are the way to go, since to this point, the government appears to be unable, or unwilling, to address the issue.

they have succeeded in focusing attention on the problem

The sabotage precedes me.

"Despite the smaller monthly trade gap, the annual deficit remained on track to surpass last year's record of $496.5 billion. " That's our money pouring out of this country. That's what Ross Perot called "That giant sucking sound".
A Reuters story from 7/2004

I'd recommend you visit the Economic Policy Institute to see the extent of the damage in terms of trade deficits that NAFTA has enabled. Here's a quote:

U.S. NAFTA trade deficit surging again

Since the U.S. entered into the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with Mexico and Canada, the trade deficit with these countries has grown rapidly (see chart below). U.S. firms moved plants to Mexico and Canada to take advantage of lower wages and new rules providing unheard of levels of protection for foreign investors. The combined U.S. trade balance with the other two NAFTA countries (the difference between U.S. exports and imports) was a small, stable deficit prior to NAFTA. Since NAFTA that combined deficit has grown rapidly. U.S. imports have been growing more rapidly than exports, so the trade deficit has expanded. When the growth of this deficit eased in 2002, some claimed that U.S. trade with China and other lower-wage countries was displacing NAFTA trade. Contrary to this view, the U.S. NAFTA deficit has increased 12.2% so far this year, evidence that deficits with Mexico and Canada are a continuing drag on U.S. growth and job creation.

My main contention at IIPR.COM is that you can't fully understand the illegal immigration issue without understanding our current (detrimental in my view) trade policies.

The ultimate goal of the Free Traders is the elimination of all borders and an end to sovereignty for the sake of improving trade benefits.

When goods and services flow freely across countries without restriction, labor costs, will find an equilibrium, lower for AMerican workers and higher for workers from Latin America. That means you may lose your high-tech job to India, or your low tech job to illegal aliens, and your children will face murderous competition for mind-numbing low-tech jobs because our elected representatives have made it profitable to to move jobs offshore.

I believe in the end, non-reciprocal free trade will have distributed our wealth elsewhere and we will become an unrecognizable, dusty, aging, overpopulated welfare state which produces little and consumes much. I see a society of the beneficiaries of free trade - stockholders, and the "worker bees" as they say.

I have nothing against Latin Americans, but I have real problems trading the financial future of America for short term economic gains by P&G, HP, GE, IBM and a host of other companies who no longer consider themselves to be American companies, but world companies.

The first step to even begin solving this problem is to protect our borders more efficiently than what has been done in the past. The Mexican border alone is a gateway for not inly illegal immigrants but also for terrorists as well. I believe I read that the U.S. is now using unmanned drones to patrol the borders. The President has to take advantage of the National Guard and begin using them more effectively.

I'd like to point out that more explosives and terrorists have been picked up at the Canadian border than the Mexican one. Both need a greater focus. Canada has lax immigration laws, and we tend not to look in that direction when assessing threats.

Absolutely on the mark SFK SKI! Look I have been a big supporter of the President on most issues except this one. He has not done enough to protect our own borders.

agreed

Just a thought, but if you just shoot them, they won't be a problem anymore. We could take the money we're saving and buy more body armor to help our boys & girls liberate Iraq -- just as soon as they beat back the bad guys who are now attacking en masse.

Wrong Mark, we ship the illegals to IRaq and offer them US citizenship if they win.

I stand spectacularly corrected. Sfc Ski, I bow, scrape, & abase myself.

Rats...why didn't I think of that?

but what about the arming/disarming issue?

How about a free gun license with every citizenship?

Okay that was a bad joke...try the veal!

canada? how could i forget the great white north?

aren't they french? or at least frenchish...?

SKI, YOU ROCK!! ship the illegals to IRaq and offer them US citizenship if they win

In one fell swoop, you have solved the illegal problem, and brought more of "our" boys home! Plus, there will be no need to have a draft. Really, genius!

Well, If the plan works, I will be available for the 2008 elections.

dang. that's way better than my plan.

The immigration problem will solve itself. We'll soon have no jobs available in the ol' U.S.A.

Then we give every Mexican a rubber raft and a map to China.

~NEXT!

hurm..i dunno..

as pleasing as the finger bit could be..it seems just a wee bit...harsh

howabout we take a page from the wildlife folks...and collar/tag them when we catch 'em...mebbe even shock collars like they use to train dogs for "invisible fences"

on a more serious note..one of my problems with the southern border security issue..

when they catch them, they hold and deport the mexicans back over the border...ALL THE REST of the Nationalities are turned loose on their own recognizance and told to report to the INS within two weeks..

anyone else see the problem here?

Excelsior!

I think you're on to something there, Gonzo. While playing disc golf I discussed this issue with an arch-leftist friend, and he came up with the idea of implanting all the ones we catch with micro chips like they do with dogs at the pound, so we can just track them down the next time they come across the border. Or even better, tell the Mexican government no more economic aid unless they implant all their citizens with tracking chips.

Dave

Dave sez...
*I think you're on to something there, Gonzo.*

OMG!!

2 in one night..!!!

i think i'm gonna faint...

there may be Hope fer ya yet Dave...i'll just have ta keep spewing my madness across the aether...

we might make a mammal out of ya yet!

or at least something warm blooded with multiple chambers in yer Heart...

to quote Triumph the insult comic.."i joke..i keeed...Dave is a good Republican...

for me to poop on!"

Excelsior!

Gonzo, read more closely. This was a suggestion of my arch-leftist friend, not mine.

I believe that Mexicans should have rights just like Americans. I'd like to let as many in as want to come, register them as guest workers and tax the hell out of them for the services they use up.

Dave

i know it wasn't yer suggestion Dave...was my own lil bit of sarcasm after swooning that you had agreed with me twice in one night, no matter what we had agreed about

but we disagree on this Issue when it comes to illegal immigration..

deport them for commiting the Crime against standing Law...

fine ANYONE that hires them heavily..and i mean criminal prosecution kind of heavy

this is more than just an immigration/cheap labor issue...it is about the Law...and about National Security

all the taxpayer money spent in the name of Homeland Security and we can't fucking secure the border of the Homeland?

as i've said before, it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the current Administration is either dishonest...ie: spending where they said they would...or grossly incompetent

normally there would be some kind of investigation , using the toold of checks and balances built into the Constitution..

but, oh...wait...we are under a totalitarian One Party Rule right now..and folks feel like they can do anything they please...

call it Homeland Security...but spend it on anything but...

call it the Patriot Act, to be used on terrorists only..we promise...but use it to bust that boy scout guy for the "thought crime" of having bad smut on his computer...tho he has never contacted, or molested anyone...( and yes, the INvestigation and prosecution was run under provisions of the Patriot Act...look it up..shocked the hell out of me when the Prosecutor admitted it in the news)

and so on and so on..ad nauseum...

you want to let immigrants in..ok..LEGALLY!!...fill out the papers, wait yer fucking turn..LEARN ENGLISH an damerican history, just like EVERY other LEGAL immigrant has to do..

NO special fucking treatment just so folks can get slave labor to fill their coffers..

clear enough?

Excelsior!

>>but we disagree on this Issue when it comes to illegal immigration..

deport them for commiting the Crime against standing Law...

fine ANYONE that hires them heavily..and i mean criminal prosecution kind of heavy<<

We don't disagree about this. I'd say flush them all out of the country and then let them come back in on special work permits. To make them legal is to make them at least somewhat trackable and certainly taxable. What bothers me is all the money they suck out of the economy and send to Mexico. They're its second largest source of revenue after oil.

>>you want to let immigrants in..ok..LEGALLY!!...fill out the papers, wait yer fucking turn..LEARN ENGLISH an damerican history, just like EVERY other LEGAL immigrant has to do...<<

Now you sound like the most right wing of conservative politicians.

Dave

A few thoughts....


"I believe that Mexicans should have rights just like Americans. I'd like to let as many in as want to come, register them as guest workers and tax the hell out of them for the services they use up." Dave Nalle

That's why we're talkin' bout Illegal's... How many people here, have problems with legal aliens?

Legals aren't the problem, in fact we could probably get enough legals to do our laundry, clean tables and restarants, vacuum hotel carpets, pretend to change sheets all of that stuff, or whatever it is we spoiled people need them to do. We're not going to lower ourselves to meanial labor. Right?

Do we need technical legal's? Or do we outsource those.

"Cheese Mahnhat-tone bonk... may I heppy you"

"I am so sorry, that is not oour policy" (spoken with Hindi accent)

I would rather outsource than insource to the prison system. And I'm getting leery of using my credit card for anything over the phone.

Business's who migrate off shore need a lesson. They're getting one in China, as clones, trademark and copywrite infringement sucks lots of profit out of the coffers. Right now it's viewed as the cost of doing business. India (the largest democracy in the world), currently has a middle class with disposable income that is 300 Million strong. And they're honest. The language of business is the Queens English.

That said... we're talking the U.S. and not outsourcing or not migrating, right?

For years we've had a border problem, and NOTHING has been done. 200,000+ arrests (or whatever they call it) last year. Tip of the iceberg.

Shall I resurrect the DRAFT issue. Let's start a draft for the HOMELAND SECURITY FORCE, put them in all the ports, on all the borders... stop drugs (ohmygod not drugs), remember drugs are not that good for you anyway, and you'll be alright. Let's see, stop illegal immigration, stop copywrite infringment (clones etc...) North and South... maybe stop terrorism (I think it's already entrenched).

But do not deny. Teach them to fish (parable) in other words, help countries grow and prosper. If there is no prosperity, there may not be an illegal immigration problem.

Join the Peach Corp, go dig a well in a village, or help get some crops in the ground.

Are imported goods up to American standards, say ISO 9000 (it might be 10000 now). Processed food production, is not up to standard, but is allowed in, I'm sure there are other items which we here in 'merica have higher standards (thank you FDA and EPA).

Stop child labor practices, prison labor practices etc... and what do you have.... HIGHER PRICES. But, it's not about money is it. It's about safety and retaining jobs here, and spreading the gospel of republic democracy, of freedom of choice.

Not cheap labor, goods and services.

In my opinion.... if the reasoning behind keeping the status quo, is about money or profit and not about community both here and abroad, it will fail. We will become overwhelmed, our systems (health care, housing etc...) will diminish in what WE expect, and will probably not meet the requirments of a burdgeoning, ageing society.

Extreme factions have been advocating border controls for decades. Which has tainted the debate, due to the history of some of those groups. Hence the ugliness involving the Arizona border spotters (keyword spotters, not hunters). The media and other groups (read left hand in Latin), have taken the history of extremist advocates and applied it to any group seeking to improve the quality of life, not only for the illegal's making the journey, but for themselves.

I have two friends who live very close to the border in New Mexico and Arizona, these people are very normal, very sane and possess a lot of love. They have told me of circumstances which are deplorable, communities are being "punished" for daring to exist anywhere near these entry points. It's a floodtide of humanity, struggling mightily to gain some sembalence of hope and new beginnings. It's sad, that this (the U.S.) may not be the place to do it.

Picture the SS Titanic is sinking and thousands of people are clamoring for the life boats, to save a few the boats have to back away from the scene, so they too will not be overwhelmed, capsized and drowned.

Can we, or those countries capable of solving the problems of the world, actually make a difference? It's daunting to even envision it. Should we even care? What's the right thing to do?

Are businesses on track, bringing productions and wages to countries which had nothing like that before? We view it a loss of jobs. The stats may not prove it so. I believe a comparison to outsourced jobs verses newly created jobs here, runs about equal(since '81). Sure Uncle Joe lost the factory job, but with start ups, retraining etc... comes out about equal...stats show. Whether or not you believe statistics is a perception problem, conspiracy theory or whatever...(lies, lies and more lies -- Disraeli). The Bureau of Stats, or labor or someplace like that actually has to statistical analysis online. I've seen them, and was surprised, my perceptions (gut feeling) were/was much different prior to seeing the data.

Anyway... I've rambled enough

thanks for all the feedback, everyone. these are all very interesting comments.

let's see if this throws a monkey wrench into anything...

according to a usa today article..."U.S. citizens will be required to show a passport to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama, Bermuda and the Caribbean by 2008, the departments of State and Homeland Security announced Tuesday."

here's a link to the entire article.

Passport needed for U.S. borders.

Oh, wow - Born in L.A. time...

And I'm nowhere near as funny as Cheech!

Passports to re-enter the U.S....

See America first!

I've been all over the flippin' globe... I still like America better'n any country I ever visited.

But the gas prices have GOT to come down! Criminy! With a capital CRIME!

Seeing that almost 10% of the population of Mexico now lives in the US, mostly illegally, and that many of the rest seem determined to join them, it is obviously our "Manifest Destiny" to extend our borders southward and give them all their wish. This would solve the whole problem of illegal Mexican immigration, since they would all become US citizens with all the rights, privileges, and responsibilities involved. Mexico would no longer exist as a country, but as a US administered territory of the US until it achieved Statehood. (Which would allow time to deal with the corruption there).

There might then be a problem of illegal immigration from countries further south, but simply reminding them that it might become our new "Manifest Destiny" to expand even further south would probably motivate them to control their own borders.

(for those who took this seriously, it was meant to be humour).

it is a simple thing to solve the problem of mexico,and mexicans. it is the way we have solved this problem in the past,and it will solve it simply now.

make mexico,part of the the united states,add them as a state. this way they can live and work where they wish,but they have to pay state and federal taxes like everyone else. they will be no more making money here and running back to mexico to spend it there for more to come here.
they will have the same benefits,as all citzens,and all of the the problems. they will have to pay the same as all of US citzens do. solve the problem now!! offer mexico state-hood,if they do not want it,block all borders for good.
if they want to work here they have to stay here,or in mexico,as a state of the united states of america. and sing the national anthem in english!!

The American National Anthem


Oh Jose cant you see, we're tired of supporting thee.

When you snuck acrossed the border, it began an illegal plight.

Over broad stripes and bright stars, We'll continue to Fight.

Mexican Flags we did watch, that were so sadly streaming.

Our tempers did flare, with Mexican's everywhere.

Gave proof to the nite, we must send them back there.

O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave.

For the land of the U. S. Citizen and the home of the American's.




written and produced by U.S. Citizens
Made In America

That's funny. But I think someone might have a point. I mean we own Puerto Rico don't we? Why not own Mexico. They have some nice beaches and I hear that the Californians are buying up land near the Mexican Rivera and building homes there.

That's a great idea. We will own Mexico and build retirement villas there and fix the corrupt Mexican drug mafia/cartel. We could have done it with the f++)_) money spent in Iraq already....

Heloise

Voting should be weighted to prevent immigrant hordes not loyal to America's founding principles, from being able to use sheer numbers to destroy our values, culture, and civilization. Pay attention Europe as well.

A natural born citizen automatically receives 100 votes. A naturalized citizen starts out with 10 votes and receives one additional vote for each succeeding year.

Eliminate anchor babies. No nation in Europe still grants automatic citizenship by birth to children neither of whose parents are citizens, and it is high time that America stop this ridiculous practice as well.

Monday May 1, 2006 has been declared "Nothing Gringo" Day by the No Borders advocates, and foolish California Senators have endorsed this seditious campaign of the Reconquista forces. I wonder how these hypocritical ignoramus Legislators would react if Secure Borders advocates, using equaivalent language, were to delcare a "Nothing Spic" Day.

Can't you just hear the hue and cry that would go up about such despicable xenophobic racism!! But no. It's perfectly fine, even admirable, for Americans to be blatantly and openly labelled "Gringos" by these brazen invading illegal-alien hordes.

Well, I will not descend to their racial slur level. Instead I hereby declare Cinco de Mayo, 2006 to be Nothing Mexican Day. Join me in not patronizing any Taco Bell, Albertos, Del Taco, El Pollo Loco, or any other Mexican commercial establishments.

Since the Mexicans want to come here and we already have appr. 11,000,000 of them. I don't see a way to solve the problem of keeping them in Mexico other than making Mexico a province of the U.S.

They have oil there and I have an idea they would rather live in their homeland and make a living in a culture they are familiar with.

When we lived in El Paso, my husband was in the Military. Several people in his Co. (with their wives) decided to go to Juarez. The guys decided that they would rather go to a bar than shop with their wives. They would meet later on a special corner at a certain time.

The guys arrived at the corner but found no wives. After several hours they went to the police station. Yes the police said the wives were in their jail.

The police gave the guys a choice--pay $300.00 or they could buy a prostitues licence for $5.00. Guess what the guys did?

A.J. Evans

Maybe if many of you guys finish your school and going to the college and after a while become in well educated americans with something in your minds, maybe that day you could be ables to think and say something with more common sense and fix the illegal immigration problem in a smart way. One more thing, read your history books, because United States is a nation of immigrants since the 13 colonies until now this country is rich and powerful thankful to the immigrants.

I Agree... Ship the Illegals to Iraq...If they survive the push out of a Transport Plane..
Get Iraq In Check Then they can come back to America And Be Legal***** Providing they Pass The Citizenship Test......Whow Hee...That Will Do It!!!

No One Comes Into This Country Illegally ..Or They Get Shot...Uh Wouldn't that happen to Us Americans if we did that to Mexico....

Learn To Obey Our Laws.. Dusty Butts..Talk English....We No Speka Da Espanol Here Or Cater To Banshees

I say bring back the Nazi Germany tactics and have a "new holocost".