Perhaps they are worried about something else he stole - document "harvesters" have a dismaying propensity for sending sealed documents "to be opened in the case of my unexplained death."

Perhaps someone in Washington, DC, has a Berger envelope "to be opened in case of my incarceration for more than 3 years."

I'd like to see what's in that envelope, if it does in fact exist.

If it was military personnel who stuffed classified documents in their socks, they would have been tasting boot leather by now.

Take of the kid gloves, toss his but into Leavenworth, like they would any other person guilty of the offense and move along.

Sandy Berger, REALLY should have known better.

so..if military personnel were caught red handed shredding classified documents then he should go right to Leavenworth?

i'm good with that..

woudl ex-Colonel Ollie North please report to processing..we have a cell waiting for ya..

Excelsior!

This has nothing to do with Oliver North. Why bring up shit that happened what, 20 fucking years ago? That was 3 presidents ago!

With no statute of limitations on treason, Col. North is quite relevant to this discussion.

what Victor said..allow me to elucidate..

andy sez..
*This has nothing to do with Oliver North. Why bring up shit that happened what, 20 fucking years ago? That was 3 presidents ago!*

now..if we Postulate that what Mr. Berger did..how many years and presidents ago is relevant today..and it may very well be, we do not know what documents he mishandled and the Law is VERY clear about such things...then ALL such Incidents, with their inherent security concerns are Relevent to this Discussion..

i brought up ex-Colonel Nort in response to..
Geo sez..
*Take of the kid gloves, toss his but into Leavenworth, like they would any other person guilty of the offense and move along.*

to demonstrate the hypocritical dichotomy that is in operation when the System of Checks and Balances is tossed aside by one political Part holding control over all three brances of our Government

why ex-Colonel North you might ask?

have we forgotten our History so soon?

or must i re-hash the entire Iran-Contra scandal, and North's involvement, or the fact that he was destroying Classified documents when arrested?

or that he was the first Official to even mention bin Laden on the Public Record during those hearings, or that he arrainged to buy weapons from Iran with money from the sale of cocaine so said weapons could be given , against the Law passed by Congress, to the Sandinista's..

and so on and so on..

all evidence points to the fact that Mr.Berger did indeed violate the Law concerning the handling of documents, and so should face the appropriate penalty...but when folks from one side say things like "throw his butt into Leavenworth like they would anyone else"

well then, i must point out that FAR worse Offenses have been done, with NO punishment or jail time..

"equal protection under the Law" is NOT just a cute phrase..but is supposed to ensure that the Rule of Law applies to EVERYONE...EQUALLY and IMPARTIALLY..

otherwise a political Group that holds Power could use the Law to persecute their Opponents...ya know...like Stalin

and we wouldn't want that, would we?

Excelsior!

Berger is not getting a slap on the wrist - he is getting what he deserves for losing some copies of classified documents (Though the copies were also classified, nothing was lost).

Oliver North seems worse to me somehow now that you mention it - and it's something I had not even considered until you did.

didn't he get a pardon of some kind. (Can yo utell I'm weak on my 80s US politics?

Let me slightly qualifiy that. Not knowing the letter of the law he may deserve greater punishment - but he is also being punished, more so than many of equal offense.

he had his felony sentence suspended, was drummed out of the Marine Corps(yet wore his uniform, illegally, to the Hearings) and all he was Required to do was to testify at the hearings Chaired by Senator Inouye

now..according to the plea bargain, North could NOT be prosecuted for any Testimony he gave, and yet he brought his Lawyer ("i am not a potted plant , Senator") and refused to Answer quite a few questions put to him about the entire Incident under investigation by the Committee..

might i add , that the hearings in theier entirety were aired on CSPAN, and most of it on CNN at the time..

the rest is a long and intricate Story..but do a search for Iran-Contra and check multiple sources..you will get the Idea..

it is interesting that so many Players from then are the top Officials now..

hence the historical Connection that should NOT be forgotten..

but i digress....

Excelsior!

Andy, it seems that if you really meant it when you said, "Why do high ranking government officials get special treatment? This is not a Republican or Democrat issue, this is a national security issue," then the Ollie North example is quite pertinent to the discussion.

I think Ollie and Berger got off WAY too lightly. There's no way Berger should ever have clearance again. He didn't make a mistake -- he did what he did deliberately, as did Ollie.

And let me FURTHER clarify (sheesh) that the "he" in this:

Let me slightly qualifiy that. Not knowing the letter of the law he may deserve greater punishment - but he is also being punished, more so than many of equal offense.

Is Berger, not O. North. In case anyone other than me cares. :-)

Temple...both received the "punishment" they got due to the plea barganning process..

sez a lot right there, doesn't it?

Excelsior!

bhw - and the rest of you...I could give 2 shits if Ollie did a tour of shore duty in Kansas and he probably should have!

The way Gonzo says it makes it sound to me like what my kids try to get away with...Johnny did it, so why can't I? It's chicken shit! OJ got away with murder so all superstar athletes should be able to murder their ex-wives?

Sandy Berger wasn't even on the job anymore when he was in the National Archives STEALING, not losing documents, and not all the documents were returned.

Temple you said he lost documents, which ones, the ones he stuffed in his shorts or the ones hs stuffed in his socks?

you mistake me andy..i am saying that BOTH of them..and any others found Guilty of violating the Rule of Law SHOULD be prosecuted to it's fullest extent

my problem is with some saying it should ONLY apply to one side or the other..

hope that makes it a bit more clear for ya

Excelsior!

Works for me Gonzo.

oh yes..and my original point was that any loss of document why Berger was EXACTLY the same, legally, as North's shredding of documents

goose and gander, me boyo

Excelsior!

I guess the only person to blame for Ollie getting off is whoever was responsible for the grant of immunity he was given.

I also think that there's a difference in that Ollie wasn't the ring leader of that fiasco, he was just a player. Sandy did his thing on his own, or by direction from his former CinC.

andy sez..
*I also think that there's a difference in that Ollie wasn't the ring leader of that fiasco, he was just a player.*

to that matter, let me put forward the same Principle that Sen. Inouye did at the Iran-Contra hearings...the Senator had been a Master-as-Arms during a very famous legal proceeding where many of the folks being Prosecuted claimed the same "we were only following Orders" that Ollie tried to use...

the Trial in question here was Nuremburg

ironic, ain't it?

Excelsior!

I wasn't insinuating that what he did wasn't wrong, or even that followong an unlawful order would somehow make what he did ok. I think it's more along the lines of him being an accesory. But, I guess the guy driving the car should get whacked just as hard as the guy in the bank!

heh..

my mini-rant was not so much directed at you, andy..i figured you would hold a similar position based on your previopus statements..

it was elucidation for the rest of our gentle Readers...to try and make the point a bit more clear...

but objects in the mirror might be closer than they appear

Excelsior!

I agree with everybody. I'm in that kind of "let's just all love one another" today. I'm hoping it will pass.

But, Gonzo, you hold a security clearance? You seem so...how do I put this...so Dionysian. Don't you have to have lived a Popish kind of life to get a security clearance? I'd always assumed--at least for the past couple of days since we've co-posting--that you were wierd, and I mean that with the deepest respect.

I don't know whether to be impressed or confused or sad. Say it ain't so, Gonzo!

heh..i did hold a TS/SI clearance..from 80-83

not so any more..

however my admittedly weird biographical experience has led me to have som einkling into the in's and out's of many systemic operations

so much fer wher ei get some of my Insight..

>blinks twice< but nowhere above did i implicitly state that i had held such a Clearance...wonder how ya got the Impression?

damn..i guess i ain't being obscure enuff again..i'll hafta work on that

but this may make it a bit clearer why i write under an alias, eh?

Excelsior!

Rats & heck. Gonzo, I owe you abject apologies. Thought this was your original post. although i don't know what a tx/sies clearance is, i assume it doesn't require deep background checks, so all is forgiven and...I hope...forgotten.

Je suis desole!

(Unless of course you did once have a security clearance...oh never mind.)

Top Secret/Security Investigation

yes, i did once hold such a clearance, as i have stated...put the bottle down and read, silly puppy...

kidding..kidding..

no need for abject, nor apologies...just send cash, small unmarked bills plz...

Excelsior!

Top Secret clearances do require background checks. They call everybody!

AHA. Thank you andy. So, Gonzo, you once had to undergo a background check. Was it your real background or did you fabricate one to through off the FBI or CIA or NSA or whoever--not that that would be very difficult?

As for the sending of cash, that will be a challenge because when I click on your name, I'm magically transported back to this site's home page. Your penchant for secrecy and mystery is going to cost you all those small, unmarked bills.

dreck....and i do so like small, unmarked bills..

at the age of 17 i went into the service..no need to change anything for the checks..

now...after i got out, that is a different Story..

but, since '96 i am no longer an "outlaw" but an actual "citizen"..drivers liscense, mortgage...steady job...

between 83 and 96...well, thas a whole 'nother Story..

Excelsior!

Sorry, Gonzo. we need more than your word on your respectability. I mean, just look at your posts! The small, unmarked bills are still sitting here in a brown paper bag...but i'm afraid they'll have to stay there.

Subliminus.

me?

respectable?

perish the Thought!

i merely stated i had given up my "outlaw" ways when i was 35, and moved to Maine..since then i have been a regular "citizen"

ie: i pay my taxes, drive legally and so on...

i do regret giving up my kwoon, however..i was very proud of some of my students...kids that were headed for Rahway prison, an wound up in the military or college..

and ya got my e-mail Mark..i will give the address fer a postal money order..or the brown paper bag..

yer choice..

Excelsior!

There are many different levels of security clearance, btw. The lower levels are handed out like candy. The higher levels require intense background investigation and you have to meet pretty strict standards.

Dave

no candy for me...but i truly don't believe my past in these matters is relevant..

Excelsior!

Excuse me, senior gonzo, but i've not been here long enough to figure out how to get someone's e-mail...and it's hard to send hard currency via e-mail. I suppose I could copy it and then scan it and then send it...

As for lower level security clearances, I'd bet anything that senior gonzo had one of the highest ratings & is now only posing as a "citizen."

Wait until the Homeland Security BlogCritics Monitoring Service read some of his posts--it'll be front page news on Ann Coulter's latest broadcast. (Get it, "broad.")