http://blogcritics.org/ A sinister cabal of superior bloggers on music, books, film, popular culture, politics, and technology - updated continuously. en Copyright 2005 by the authors Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:30:05 EST http://backend.userland.com/rss Blogcritics.org custom software http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/03/14/232900.php#comment-131169 thanks as always Tony, great distinction between "irrational" and "rationalize" 131169@blogcritics.org Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:30:05 EST http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/03/14/232900.php#comment-131167 hmmm, "Believers who can deal with the idea that their intuitive faith in revealed mysteries or myths has to be reconciled to reason can live in the reality-based world." Firstly, this strikes me as a contradiction. Faith cannot be reconciled to reason; that's it's whole attraction in a complex and changing world to those needing succour. Secondly, everyone lives in the reality-based world regardless of their beliefs. A child covering his eyes is not invisible despite what he might believe. I think people letting go of religion HAS led us to be progressively smarter. Eg the cosmogonies of Ptolemy and Copernicus were compared and rationalised by the evidence available to Galileo, but unfortunately this soon resulted in his torture by the inquisition! The current pope would concede that the earth does revolve around the sun, but I wouldn't say he had fully reconciled his faith to reason. Refuting the belief of one system by the empirical evidence of another has brought the world huge benefit in so many ways and will continue to do. The results of Faith are in no way as tangible. I think Wheen's book is timely. The adoption of a lot of utter crap into the the unused space left by 'organised' religion or a person's ignorance is deplorable. The world is a better and more just place explained rationally than otherwise. 131167@blogcritics.org Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:27:01 EST http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/03/14/232900.php#comment-128645 It depends on how a believer or a belief system manages to work with reason and intuition - or call it insight or revelation. Believers who can deal with the idea that their intuitive faith in revealed mysteries or myths has to be reconciled to reason can live in the reality-based world. The thinkers of the Enlightenment seemed to think that if people could let go of (organized) religion, we would progressively get smarter and evolve a more just society. It doesn't work that way. People are rational, emotional, selfish, social and religious all at the same time. I think Wheen showed that some religious or quasi-religious beliefs rationalize narcissism and selfish behaviour, and failed to credit the value of religious beliefs that encourage honourable and just behaviour, altruism, and trust. 128645@blogcritics.org Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:54:29 EST http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/03/14/232900.php#comment-128590 fascinating post, if at times a little conceptually crowded. one question: why is wheen wrong to dismiss all religious believers as irrationalists? I would have thought it was a basic necessity... 128590@blogcritics.org Tue, 15 Mar 2005 03:38:37 EST