I get your point but how else are they going to get anyone to actually join. The desperate generation raised on violence and sex needs to be tricked into fighting a war that has no honor or reason.

hilarious if a bit disingenuous, Shark. The military has been using the "blowing shit up is fun" angle explicitly and implicitly since the beginning of the all-volunteer military. Typically recruiting is actually up during times of conflict, although I don't know if this is holding true this time around.

Apparently, it is not.

I love it, Shark.

Daddio, I get your point. And those kids will quickly find out there are no "reset" or "new game" buttons to push in a real conflict. Once yer dead... well, game over.


DistortedAngel, thanks for the link:

EXCERPT:

"...The chief of the Army National Guard, Lt. Gen. Roger C. Schultz, told the House panel that the Guard met only 56 percent of its recruiting quota in January.

The Marine Corps fell 3 percent short of its recruiting goal for January, the first time the Marines have missed a monthly goal since 1995..."

Sharky -
After seeing the "Cheerleading" photo, I couldn't help but think that perhaps the Army has finally stumbled across the successful bait to get our ch----en hawk buddy RJ (Bobby) Elliott to enlist...

Quoted from the original post:

In the old days, American soldiers -- especially those in "The Greatest Generation" -- were reluctant killers. They were sensitive, humble, quiet, reserved -- and above all -- respected life, liberty, and the basic values of humanity. They never saw themselves as heroes -- but simply as young men doing their duty.

Roy: "I wonder if the real benefit of a conscript army (versus the all-volunteer force) is that it is easier to field a force that remembers its humanity and remembers the American ideals that they are supposedly fighting to protect?"

Wow. Could be. Quite an original thought, Roy. The 'variety' of personalities might have some value in that regard.

Although one has to wonder, then, if there is a single and/or similar type of personality shared by volunteers; I sorta doubt it. Don't people join for a variety of reasons -- the least of which is to see direct combat?


MCM - I think the "mud wrestling" aspect could up the number of volunteers -- although it's a hard sell to go to Iraq or Iran to see tits -- when Mardi Gras is happening right in New Awlins.

Either place, tho, I'd require a friggin' body glove just to touch anybody.

Having been both in the military and having worked a couple years in the civilian workforce, I can say that there is a MUCH wider variety of personalities, politics, and motivations outside the military than in it. Military members are not clones by any stretch of the imagination, but neither do they represent a full cross-section of society.

Roy, I can't believe you are trying to make a case for conscription using the military of WWII and at the same time ignoring the problems of a consript military in Vietnam.

This is brilliant Shark because it truly captures the insanity that is the American government and the media. I watch television and the news these days and I honestly feel like the America is gone fucking insane. There doesn't seem to be a shred of honesty, just mounds and mounds of lies and rhetoric. So much, that the American people don't demand an apology or a resignation. Why is it Americans accept so much bullshit with out demanding the culprits suffer consequences?

There needs to be a movement towards letter-writing campaigns and real street level action. Like Fox news needs to be shut down somehow, or boycotted. Its soooooooo Destructive. AGHHh... you got me fired up.

But anyway, my point being that a post like this last one makes me feel so relieved. To know that some others see the insanity too...

By the way... RJ hasn't posted because he stopped reading your article half way thru and enlisted. He must have gotten caught up in the sheer deliciousness of it all.

BTW, blowing up shit IS fun!

P for plenty

Sydney, I'm "brilliant"? Thanks. I prefer "hero", but I love you anyway ...and Al Barger hates you [heh].

And you're not alone. There are just under 50% of voting Americans who aren't buying the bullshit either.

Roy & PFC SKI, thanks for your comments; you guys often give me a tiny boost of optimism for the future.

========

Ski: "...blowing up shit IS fun!"

Yah, I know -- But dude, CREATING shit is even more rewarding.

Along with:

imagining,
inventing,
dreaming,
building,
nurturing,
growing,
teaching,
helping,
making...


(Okay. Okay. I know.

Real men don't...)

Roy: "...Military members are not clones by any stretch of the imagination, but neither do they represent a full cross-section of society..."

But they probably do reflect overall trends in our society; trends toward coarseness, a lack of morals and manners, no knowledge of history, etc.(?)

I wonder if, in general, we've raised a generation (or two) of amoral motards...

And too much TV can't be helping.

These [isolated?] performances by our military so often resemble really bad Reality and TV Game Shows.

The Germans dehumanized the Jews and were able to do unimaginable things. They did it with almost a religious fervor based on a 'lofty goals' [in their eyes] for their cultural future.

Whereas it seems we're able to turn everything into a 'hoot'... like it's some frathouse activity that has no consequences beyond the immediate tickle we get:

"Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight... It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people." -- Lt. Gen. Macho

Well, Shark, I do a lot of creating and dreaming(about blowing shit up ;) )the 2 are not mutually exclusive within a person, and thanks for the Hallmark moment.

re: The Hallmark Moment --

Damn. I must be gay!

Or it's my feminine side speaking.

Wow. If something like that happens too often to too many men... shit, we might not have any more wars...

What a loss.

Nope, it just means the troglodytes would invade the feng-shui correct villages of the others, kill them or enslave them, put their feet on the furniture, and wipe their faces on the tablecloths.

For all my time in Iraq, I never got to watch soldiers mud wrestle, nor did I get to humiliate and abuse detainees, should I feel cheated?

Something that does need to be looked at is that the mud-wrestling incident happened at a prison camp run by reserve soldiers called to active duty, the same situation as in Abu Ghraib. I think there has to be something there.
It could be the fact that soldiers assigned to both plaves not only work in a prison environment, they live there as well. There are 2 sets of prisoners in this type of environment, they are just on different sides of the bars. None of this excuse the abuses in Abu G, or the plain dumb-ass non-thinkng that led to this event, but it is pertinent.

obviously, as Ski alludes to, the military is in no way monolithic: there are better and worse dicrcumstances, duties, details, training, levels of commitment, etc. This is simply reality. I agree there are politive egalitarian aspects of a conscripted military, but the negatives far outweigh the positives, especially for the military itself - why do you think the military opposed conscription?

Sydney writes:

"Why is it Americans accept so much bullshit with out demanding the culprits suffer consequences?"

Reply: Information overload. Who can hear anything above the cacaphony? I think our ears and eyes are just numb.

I am surprised that Sydney thinks the bullshit is confined to this particular administration and Fox News: the bullshit flows freely from every nook and cranny and from every direction. I think "bullshit" could also be called "perspective," "point of view" or "set of assumptions." It would appear that Fox News's set of assumptions and perspective simply doesn't coincide with your own. Do you think the millions who feel Fox News's set of assumptions DOES coincide with their own are stupid?

SFC SKI: Something that does need to be looked at is that the mud-wrestling incident happened at a prison camp run by reserve soldiers called to active duty, the same situation as in Abu Ghraib. I think there has to be something there.

I thought the reserves just weren't as well trained and disciplined as the standing army.

which would have psychological ramifications as well, I would think

I'm witth Sydney. The solution to all America's problems is to shut down the free press! Now let's see what other fundamental rights we can sacrifice to create his PC nation.

DAve

In reponse to Sydney (Comment 10):

Sydney writes: Like Fox news needs to be shut down somehow

Last I checked, we had freedom of the press. Yes, Fox broadcasts a lot of idiotic propaganda, but that is their right.

JR, I would not want to smear the NG or the reserves as a whole, because some of the most dedicated, hard working, and squared away units I worked with in Iraq were from the Guard and Reserve. It may be that this unit was less disciplined and had less oversight from above, and, too, many reservists work together in civilian life, there is a different level of familiarity there, for good and bad results. Last, some reserve units might have less of that military mindset, active duty military have a 24-7 atmosphere of professionalism and discipline to work within, and I mean that in a broad sense, and we accept a bit more of the need to maintain that image, whereas some, and I mean a very small amount of reservists, not being in that mindset all the time can be more likely to do things with a civilian mindset. I mean, some females were mud wrestling and one flashed a camera, no big deal in Daytona Beach or at Mardi Gras, of course, these soldiers were in Iraq and their actions represent the Army as a whole. Most Active duty soldiers would definitely think twice about doing what these reservists did, and I doubt it would have been approved in any case. I can understand some of what went on, after a year or more of being in a combat zone, these soldiers were finally going home, but they made some poor decisions in how to celebrate it.

Sydney" Like Fox news needs to be shut down somehow" I use that little button marked "OFF".

Does anybody know the theme song to the new army reserve or nationa guard commercial! where the guy roars and then the guitar guy freaks out! please i need to know

Shut your mouth or join. Unless you are willing to become a General or SGM and change something, and pay the price for getting that rank or join the brotherhood, then shut the fuck up. What in the hell do you insensitive bastards think we want to say. Yeah, my life is messed up because I shot some terrorist. I will have nightmares and cold sweats and freaking live the rest of my life making it up to my family for being away and justifying murder to myself. [Gratuitous vulgarity deleted by Comments Editor]. War is a necessary evil that exists whether you like it or not. Whether the dicks of this world want to believe it or not, war will always be. Not because of people like me, but because of people like the ones who flew our planes into our buildings, the ones who bombed Pearl Harbor etc. The only thing that exists because of me is for you to run your fat mouth about how you think the Army should be run from your professional and oh so seasoned opinion. Why don't you take a trip to the box and see how it is for soldiers. Why don't you spend a year with the mom raising her kids by herself so these "cheerleaders" can fight a war. You make me violently ill. I hope no soldiers see your sight. Learn respect.

way to bash our military

im sure theyre real happy knowing theyre protecting someone who doesnt give a good god damn about them...

im sure youll play the "im not bashing the military im bashing its ways" and the "i hope they all come back safe and sound" card but you cant fool me, you really dont care about them.

the Armed Forces is a great way to live your life and pay this great country back for all it has given us and when i get out of college ill be wearing that camo..

and if i ever get the opportunity, i mean privelege, to serve my country in the heat of battle ill be sure to fight for the people who actually care about me and the soldiers around me. because they are the only people who really matter anyway

oh yeah i forgot to mention one more thing, if you had the balls to go serve then i would respect you..but since you dont respect our soldiers/future soldiers..maybe we should get a betallion of people like you and have you go into iraq and see how bad you want us to come save your yellow asses

Ummm, 2 iraqi babies are alive today becasue of actions directly related to our goal in iraq, helping the ppl. I can still see their faces and the faces of their mothers thankful that i would help. I would encourage you to go to a place where it is still o.k. to remove a female childs clit at birth because of religious views. i would also encourage you to to write something that doesnt hide behind sarcasim. anyone can be sarcastic, can you put something to gether that is factualy based?