I'm really running outta gas on this liberal thing. When I write a post nowadays, I feel like a guy opening a Yarmulke Shop in downtown Berlin in 1933.

You deserve an award at least for combining gas and 1933 Berlin in the same paragraph.

Multitudes, indeed:)

Keep the faith, baby!

Aaman, good catch. What's next? Ulysses?

And thanks for your support during my nervous breakdown.

when you're right you're right: it's much more fun and satifying to own things and crush your enemies than the alternative, but I like clean air and water and never refer to the Bible regarding public policy - there are a lot like me too

Shark, it's always hard to tell where your sarcasm ends and heartfelt opinion begins, but you are pretty damn funny.
Like Eric, Some things I love about the President and his party, and other things still make me cringe and run away from them. So, you shouldn't feel the need to jump with both feet, there's room enough in the middle, and you can lean in whatever direction you like.

You're right, we liberals can't compete with the simplistic, testosterone-soaked, hate- and greed-driven agenda of the far right ... at least not among that portion of the populace that regards politics as another form of cheap TV entertainment, to be watched right after Jerry Springer and before the WWF. With any luck though, these people do not constitute the majority of our country. And if they do? Well, people ultimately get the government they deserve ...

BTW, most, if not all, of my politics is informed by my having been raised in a Christian church and being a faithful member to this day. Those beliefs, in turn, make me detest most of what the far right has to say and to cringe every time I hear a fundamentalist describe himself as "Christian". Maybe my problem is that I think Jesus actually meant it when he said things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "turn the other cheek".

Roy Smith: "...my problem is that I think Jesus actually meant it when he said things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "turn the other cheek".

Yep, Jesus was a liberal (and probably gay -- what with being surrounded by men who lived, worked, ate, and slept together), but look where he ended up.

I have an aversion to being nailed to any static object, so for now on, I'm stickin' with the GOP's implicit mantra: "Fuck you: I got mine."

(Ah, that feels much better.)

the problem with turning the other cheek is it is perceived as weakness by our enemies and as such invites attack - bin Laden said so himself.

Eric: "...turning the other cheek is perceived as weakness by our enemies..."

(Shark frantically scanning scripture to negate Jesus' wimpy-ass mandate)

Ahh, good, here it is! Rejoice, my fellow Conservatives!

"For the LORD delights in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation. Let the faithful rejoice in this honor. Let them sing for joy as they lie on their beds.Let the praises of God be in their mouths, and a sharp sword in their hands to execute vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples, to bind their kings with shackles and their leaders with iron chains, to execute the judgment written against them. This is the glory of his faithful ones. Praise the LORD! (Psalms 149:1-9)

yeah yeah - we know the New Testament is supposed to supplant the Old, but I am more concerned with reality: if bin Laden and similar fuckstains say our weakness justifies their aggression, then I guess we have to prove them wrong, with prejudice

Well, I don't think we need to turn the other cheek when a terrorist strikes. But the Christian Right seems to have forgotten what Jesus was talking about when it comes to a) domestic policy [render unto Ceasar and all that] and b) dealing with people with whom you disagree spiritually, morally, socially, and politically.

There is a difference, oft forgot, betweeen righteous anger and the other kind.

God bless America...

Is san andreas any good?

Andy: "Is san andreas any good?"

Andy, I don't know.

As I've stated, I'm currently trying to shake the cultural retardation of my long liberal past.

You can ask me about "Pokemon" until I catch up...

1) Shark: Yep, Jesus was a liberal (and probably gay -- what with being surrounded by men who lived, worked, ate, and slept together)

I must take from this that you believe all our military members are gay ... I am in the Navy and am certain that this is not the case.

2) Eric: The British thought Gandhi was weak, too ...

3) Turning the other cheek isn't always the answer, I will grant you, but there is a valid principle there that we can learn from. (For instance, the War in Afghanistan did not suffer from the moral ambiguity that has surrounded Iraq or Guantanamo Bay.)

Avenging every injustice with force is also not the answer. Look where that approach has gotten the Israelis and the Palestinians.

The point of this is that the way to ultimately win this "war on terror" is to show that we are more moral and more courageous than the terrorists. More courageous is the easy part - we just need to avoid succumbing to fear. More moral is much trickier, and depends on not acting in ways which are seen to be self-interested or greedy. Just as important, we cannot declare ourselves to be more moral: like it or not, it is the rest of the world that gets to decide whether we are acting on a higher moral plane than the terrorists that seek to destroy us.

Another saying from the good book- as you sow,so shall ye reap. We created bin laden and finally get to face the music which the rest of the world had been listening to for over last three decades.

And we would be dancing to their tunes till we realize that using hard power actually means cutting your nose to spite your face.

Using soft power doesnt mean turning the other cheek, it means winning the hearts of the suffering people and thus depriving the terrorists of their base support.

There is another saying- if pushed to a corner even an ant would come out fighting

Hard power never works in the long run.

Eric: if bin Laden and similar fuckstains say our weakness justifies their aggression, then I guess we have to prove them wrong, with prejudice

That only works up to the point where we don't compromise our own moral principles. Abu Ghraib and incidents like it probably did more damage to the war on terror than the entire Iraq insurgency has, because it convinced a lot of people on the sidelines that we had no moral superiority over the terrorists.

>>I must take from this that you believe all our military members are gay ... I am in the Navy and am certain that this is not the case.<<

Now come on, everyone knows sailors ae gay. Don't try to take our cliches away from us man.

Dave

Roy: "Abu Ghraib and incidents like it probably did more damage to the war on terror than the entire Iraq insurgency has, because it convinced a lot of people on the sidelines that we had no moral superiority over the terrorists."

Lesson Learned: Keep cameras out of the hands of our 'interrogators'.

~Next!

so in addition to reviling Johnny Depp you are an adherent of the blowback theory. We didn't "create" the bin Laden of al Qaeda: he metastasized into that all on his own. I agree we have to pay a lot better attention to those whom we train, equip and encourage - they cannot be left to their own devices, as we have painfully learned throughout the globe.

But you aren't telling me "we brought 9/11 on ourselves," are you? For that is the most odiferous of offal.

Yep, Jesus was a liberal (and probably gay -- what with being surrounded by men who lived, worked, ate, and slept together)...

And never married, thought his mother was a saint, had a close platonic relationship with a hooker... The guy definitely fits the profile.

For once, I think we have to learn the lesson that the policy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has a price, and that we will have to pay up at some point.

Blowback is real.

He was most certainly a radical, but whether right or left is difficult to tell

free tadical?

Are we sure that it was a platonic relationship?

I'm left, you're right, she's gone

the 11 september attacks were truly appalling attacks on innocent people. there is no argument against that at all.

however to ignore all the lessons of the history of the situation is just retarded

cause and effect applies as much to humans as any other system.

the most "odiferous of offal" is blowhard self-importance masquerading as intelligent informed comment.

The second book in Shark's list is an opus of modern philosophy - from D&G - the same guys who brought you Anti-Oedipus.

They focus on the creative "deterritorialization" that capitalism engenders - leading to a devaluation of life, per se. Very Marxist.

JR - "And never married, thought his mother was a saint, had a close platonic relationship with a hooker... The guy definitely fits the profile."

I think you're talking about some italian guys I know in NYC.

no alienboy, it's "blowBACK self-importance"

The public unfortunately always pays the price for the decisions made by politicians. Is it fair never!

The Heroshima and Nagasaki nuking was the price innocent japanese had to pay for their government's imperialist aspirations

Indira Gandhi supported bhindar wala and later bombed the sikh holy shrine. The indian civilains both sikh and others paid with their lives for atleast two decades and she too paid with her own life.

Her own son was assasinated by a Tamil tiger.

Kashmir is a nuclear flashpoint due to the aggressive stance of two governments.It is the innocents who stand to pay the price on both ends.

History has numerous egs for similar stories -Ireland and Britain etc

Coming from a country which has faced bomb blasts in movie theaters, trains,shopping center and hijacking of planes we have realized that it is always the civilains who pay the price for policies of the government whether good or bad.

Civilans are easy targets that is why terrorists are cowards who need to be dealt with hard power.

There are always two sides to a story, those we see as terrorists some see as freedom fighters and it is our job to make them see from our point of view.

9'11 was one of the ripples of terrorism that finally hit america which as I said before the world was already combating.

Laying the blame on which door doesnt solve the problem. Instead of raising your hackles like a defensive conservative one should be using that energy to ponder over how to solve the problem without sacrificing our own in such horrendous numbers.

And as far as Mr Depp is concerned I stick to my opinion -he positively preened in his numerous pigtails!

yes, there is cause and effect, as a result EVERY action results in "blowback" rendering the term meaningless; I'm glad you agree that terrorists need to be dealt with with "hard power"; I've never said or thought direct military action is the only arm of the war on terror: intelligence gathering and analysis, investigative work, diplomacy, PR are all vital elements of the campaign, but military action gives them teeth

Shark,

As a canadian I welcome you up north where we can hate on the american government together.

I like most americans but man... you guys are seeing the world from a whole different perspective. Reading american papers, watching american tv, i can understand how so many americans have such a jaded view of the world. Most americans, and certainly american media is/are obsessed with thier own power.

Americans should step out from thier borders and just try to listen for a minute what the rest of the world thinks of them -- what the rest of the world wants.

Still, is what we (The rest of the world) want really the issue? I second guess myself soemtiems, because George bush is a freind of God's. Maybe what god wants is best. That is... for christians like myself. fuck the buddists and the islamic fuckers. they'll have to put up with our god.

BHW: "I think we have to learn the lesson that the policy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has a price, and that we will have to pay up at some point. Blowback is real."

~Doh! I thought you were talkin' about my sudden conversion to Conservatism!

I'm fixin' to blow-back the liberals with a vengeance! The only thing worse than a reformed cigarette smoker is a liberal turn-coat.

Prepare to meet my wrath!

if the world could simply get it through its thick crust that what is good for America IS good for the world, then all would be well

(I believe Puss-n-Boots said that in Shrek 2; an appropriate role model for my transitional period, btw!)

I saw a documentary, I think it was Mary, Mary, narrated by Sigourney Weaver on CNN a few weeks back. The religious scholars on that show said there actually was no historical or biblical evidence of Mary being a hooker, but that was a perception that the church allowed for centuries anyway (and then each gave differing reasons as to why).

This is in reference to a few comments back up the list that talk about that.

EricO: "...if the world could simply get it through its thick crust that what is good for America IS good for the world, then all would be well..."

Eric, I've already consolidate that thought and trademarked it as:

"We're Gonna Kick Yer Ass for Your Own Good" Foreign Policy

You can use it, though!

There's this great new book called the DaVinci Code that mentions that, too...

I think the Roman Empire trademarked that policy long ago

And we all know what happened to them;)

BTW: There is no evidence in The Bible to indicate Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.

Believe me, I'm quite the biblical scholar. (I never read the Bible, but I did read "DaVinci's Code.)

The sun never set on the British Empire too, methinks

Good book?

"this is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you"

LEts Define TERRORIST (because i heard it used a couple of times as though it was an evil villain in a comic book):


(Before you continue --No offence of americans who make an effort to understand the people whos lives their country effects.)

Really, lets clear this up because so many of you fuckin americans think terrorists are evil basterds who are out to kill and maim people out of the joy of doing so.

A terrorist is most often a person who has seen their friends, family, and countrymen killed by american military actions. At the very least it is a people (perhaps arabs in this case) who have been denigrated in society. Who are made into characatures on american tv and made to look like idiots - all the while in real life the americans simultanelusly bomb their familys and fellow country men.

This is the root of terrorism. Sure, terrorists do evil things, sure they try to brainswash others into following them. Sure they retalialte and kill innnocent american civillians and its horrible. But what the fuck is wrong with americans who cant see where the problem all starts. If you let these people alone, let them run their own economies and let them have some dignity than they wont care to blow up your country so badly.

More than 500 000 women and cildern killed in the Iraq war..!!

Can you imagine if Iraqi's came to your country and killed half of the people you knew, your two daughters, your brother and your sister, and your co-workers. What the fuck do you have to live for other than to get revenge on those holy americans who sit and watch sitcoms and laugh at the silly arabs. and who react to a beheading of american captive -- "Those sickening, barbaric arabs! where does all their hate come from!?"

Don't you see why everyone hates you sooooo much. We dont care that you give with one hand because you take lives with the other,.. all the while positioning yourselves for profit and lectureing people about who is evil and who is good.

fuck you!!!.. I'm fuckin angry, and i'm a white chritian canadian. I can just imagine how much anger an arab harbours.

Let us define the purpose of the shift key and spellcheck, too.

I'm telling you, we really need to build that wall on our norhtern boarder!

no time for spell check.. my message is clear enough..

now we are up to "500,000 women and children Killed in Iraq" - if you are talking about killed by Saddam's regime, perhaps that is so

you, who live in North America and didn't ride the short bus to school or anything, actually believe we turned all these sweet innocent people, "who only want to be left alone" with their jolly little economies and quaint villages and whatnot, into terrorists? It's all our fault?

Yes, how dare we be prosperous and tolerant and allow our women to drive cars and look us in the fucking eye, how dare we value individual rights, personal freedom, education, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? We have only to right these wrongs and bin Laden will buy us all cheeseburgers.

I want a pork sandwich...will bin Laden buy me a pork sandwich?

Naz,

You got some cool raps, and even better politics. I'm down with you.

Fuck these yankee basterds who play politics like it was a sport.

Go ERic!

All hail America and long live life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.. blah blah.

Shove it up your arse, Iraqies never asked for you to over turn sadamm hussein, and moreoever you killed more in the porcess than sadamm ever killed. Not only that, the killign willlikely continue for years to come before the next dictatorship takes hold.

Secondly, some of you americans think they have the model for democracy.. If you havent noticed, most democratic nations use america as a cautionary example of democracy gone bad.

it's bastArd...not basterd...maybe even basturd might work...but not basterd!

ah, TopDog, another adherent to the STockholm Syndrome school of political thought

Andy,
you spell very well. good work man. its important that we all spell well.
you should be editing for soemone...

hey, if I'm gonna be called a name, I prefer that it's at least spelled right!

Shove it up your arse, Iraqies never asked for you to over turn sadamm hussein, and moreoever you killed more in the porcess than sadamm ever killed.

Naz, perhaps you were in your Advanced Self-deception class on Sunday and missed the election

You see, this is why I end up being called the ugly american...I'll say it...so the rest of you don't have to.

Who gives a fuck what the rest of the world thinks of us?

You should all be fucking happy that you're all not celebrating your new german heritage TWICE!

WHaTever happens...I...must...not...cry!

ERic,

I acknowlege there was an election. And I seriously hope a democracy takes hold, but thats got nothing to do with the happiness and well being of the average iraqi. They may be dealing with civil war for the next 20 years... elections or no..

Andy,

You already don't care what the rest of the world thinks. There wouldnt have been a war in iraq if you did. remeber? (by the way... you are the quintesential american -sterotype anyway)

Thank you! And you are the quintessential non-american-stereotype anyway. You and yours will come whining to the U.S. the next time, just like you did the last time and the time before that and the time before that...and then, after we bail your ass out again, you'll turn around and bad mouth us...again!

But it's ok, we've learned to expect it!

hey naz maybe you should form the canadian terrorist outfit. Honey you need to grow up and realize that an eye for an eye and the world would be blind.

Terrorism is not an american problem but a world problem. Europe had been trying out stay out of the whole affair but they too are facing the malaise.

Gandhi was once asked by a devastated father what he should do with his life since his two year old was killed by a muslim . Gandhi told him to adopt a two year old muslim child who had lost his parents.

Eric,

also, what does it matter. Do you feel the american government had a right to determine iraq's future, even if it meant causeing so much destruction that the next few geneartions are condemend to remeber the suffering and suffer further? There wasnt even any connection with 9/11 there.... what the hell? is this americas world to choose and pic which countries it reforms?

Yeah, and Canada's next!

Swinginpus,

I dont think you read my original comment bac around post #49.

I'm not advocating any attacks on america. I live on the american border, and i also know that their have been several terorrist attacks planned on canada (one on a nucleur facility 40 min from my house).

I was saying that if we want to rid the world of terrorsits than america has to stop bombing countries and make an effort to educate americans about other cultures.

A younger generation of arabs (As an example) would be pretty reluctant to risk their lives if they felt americas heart was in the right place.

ask me in five years if the average Iraqi isn't happier, better off, safer, more free, more prosperous, and with a greater sense of ownership over his/her own life with Saddam removed from power. The vast majority already feel that way. I refer you once gain to the election.

if they felt our hearts were in the right place...you mean, something like, if you fuck with us we'll kill you? Or should we just go back to the way it used to be...Oh don't mind them, they'll go away...eventually?

andy,
give it up. your just ignorant.

Eric,

man i think thats a pretty bold and arrogant way of thinking. Most Iraqis dont even have running water and many live in fear of leaving their house especially at night. You sure life under sadamn was much better?

Still, lets say it is 10 times better. So america had a soft spot for iraq and decided (with the help of the good lord) to liberate them. ITs ok then that certain americans turn a profit off their good deed?

And what about africa? I mean their are plenty of leaders there, far more savage than sadamm was... why hasnt america liberated those people?

You write the shit that you write and you call me ignorant. Go bury your head in the snow you fucking pacifist!

Someone has to stand for the Dems. Watch out 2006, Reps. Your time could just as easily be up. Neal? Try Pierce and George Jr.

Whatever you do, don't eat the yellow snow

Roy smith says;

"That only works up to the point where we don't compromise our own moral principles. Abu Ghraib and incidents like it probably did more damage to the war on terror than the entire Iraq insurgency has, because it convinced a lot of people on the sidelines that we had no moral superiority over the terrorists."

-- You thought america had moral superiority over any other nation or peoples? oh boy, the problem really is systemic isnt it? And I always used to say the american government was not the same as the american people.

If your point is "You get the government you deserve", you're correct - and that is the cornerstone of a healthy democracy - the right to change - both the government and the people.

Heck, even Shark is changing.

Naz, people are mainly taking exception to your shallow views and mode of communication - try expressing your points cogently and you'll be more appreciated

Naz, you are talking about the people on the other side of Isreal border and not about the Iraqis or for the women of Afganistan.

Saddam was an evil despot and his deranged sons raped maimed and killed thousands of shias. And as far as I can see america did them a favor by desposing them and ya dont just americans love getting their loved ones bombed out there by non Iraqi terrorists.

In Aghanistan the Taliban ate the country up from within...but hey lets blame america for that too...there is no concept of personal responsibility is there?

The world seems to have forgotten the role america played in the balkan region and by the way they were on the side of the oppressed -the innocent muslims

Why have countries like India, China become economic powers to contend with while most of Arabian states have fallen into such dismal conditions despite the oil?

But hey its easier to point the finger at one big bully right?

Naz: We have moral superiority over the terrorists when (or if) we are able to act in accordance with a higher moral standard. That being said, the Bush administration does not have moral superiority over anybody at the moment. Exhibit A: Our new Torturer Gen..., uh, I mean, Attorny General Alberto Gonzales.

Aamann,

I recognize that I'm writing aggressivly but its frustrating to sit and read what some of you write regarding other peoples lives. I mean its become so acceptable for americans to debate what they do with other peoples live. Menawhile, the people of the world are screaming out to you to listen (literally).

Half my friends are american, I went to highschool in the states. I know americans are fine on an indivudual basis but the media and the ideologies thrown around in the states are so far out and crazy by the standards of the rest of the world (I lived in canada and australia).

So anyway, I get pissed off when i hear the way some of these people write. so thats why today I chose to just tell everyone off.. couldn't hurt i thought..

or Attorney General. Maybe I should start using a spell checker.

That being said, the Bush administration does not have moral superiority over anybody at the moment.

NC wrote:Because Gonzales is the new AG, we can't claim moral superiority over anyone? Kudos, Roy; you just out-retarded naz.

Beautiful NC beautiful

swinginpus,

I think your a little naive. The innocent muslims? the role we played in the blakans? listen to yourself I mean give me a break.

one man's freedom fighter is anothers terrorist. you heard that.. well america has made its self terrorist to half of the world cause they got their greedy fingers in everyones pie.

Do you really believe GWB when he defines people and countries as evil or good? do you think that everyone that opposes america is actaully and evil person? do you beleieve that everytime america funds a geurilla group or invades a country, they are on the side of good and fighting evil?

Okay, I got carried away with a rhetorical flourish ... but if the United States can't be at the top of the heap in our moral values (where we demonstrably are not), we should hang our head in shame.

Ok I'm leaving for today-- satisfied to have riled a few american feathers.

last question:

Are there any americans who truly criticisize their government or is that like treason or somthing?

why such violent opposition to people who say america's foreign policy is horrible and invasive?

Which world are you talking about ? The one represented by a organisation called UNO which is as bad as the league of nations?

Freedom fighters? What a laugh...
Taliban was the freedom fighting organisation ...sigh I guess you are like that half of the world who just dont care whether somalians die or women in this day and age still get stoned.

Rather be that half of the world that sits in their secure living rooms bitch about america and go back to their daily life.

what did Norway have to do with the attack that took place on their sacred liberal secular grounds?

Me naive? I have lived through the fear of terrorism as a child so dont try to tell me where I am coming from.

Read my last lines again and ponder over why some countries are moving ahead and others being left behind? And it is those that are left behind which are producing idle unemployed youth turning to terrorism.

I'm done explaining and your spellings are as bad as mine. There atleast I can meet you on common grounds.

sorry, I was under the impression Islamofascist foreign policy is horrible and invasive

tsk, tsk, EO!

Michael Moore's reach and influence over weak minds is remarkable nd frightening. Just keep this in mind: IT'S ALWAYS OUR FAULT

HEy, I'm all for multi-lateral apporach to stopping attrocities. What I am against is America picking and choosing the attrocities that might turn a profit for themselves. And blocking U.N. involvment in attrocities that might loose them money.

Of course I find it horrible that there are regimes where women get stoned. But don't confuse american involvment as charity.

Read wolfiwitz's and cheany's manifesto and it clearly outlines reform of the middle east is advantageous because it secures america's economic advantage in the world. IT doesnt mention anything about suffering or the well being of people living there...

Its funny that it was standard reading in politics classes in canada , and when i went to australia i found that a friend of mine who took cultural studies classes read the same document. I called it a manifesto but I actually forget the real name. I expect you guys know what its called..

If you just laid off for a bit. In Iran for instance. I've seen documentries that suggest the people ages 30 and under are ripe for change in Iran. They are pushing for a western style democracy and liberal progression. IT will happen on its n in the next 25 years.

But now that america is invading countries there abouts and calling Iran "evil", they're gonna create anger and resentment in the younger people and you watch if they don't start to define them selves in opposition to america and democracy again.

In other words, the world will change on its own-- or with acts of good will and soft power. They Iranians see the prosperity that democracy brings. Theire are iranians in canada and abraod who see some of its advantages and they bring this hope back to IRan.

But they need time to want it for themselves. America bombing them into submission only creates anger and resentment. Can you imagine, america swooping in and killing all your family and saying "there, we finally freed you. you happy? and also we're gonna instill some american buisness interests in your country to pay for our good deed."

You're saying PNAC documents are required reading in polsci classes in Canada and Australia? And I thought neo-cons were US-only

thought he/she said they wer eleaving?

atleast someone is being the world police.. lets open up more Mcdonald chains, indian casinos, strip clubs and never ending malls..let that be the way america imposes its way of living on the rest of the world. Japan is a prime example of that and they dont seem that unhappy.

Coca-colonialization

I'm a pepsi fan myself, what would you call that...pepsi-cola-colonialization?

A cure for global dyspepsia

HA!

something along the lines of "our way, done your way"

Aamann,

I know you might find this surprising, but the documents are provided in canadian and australian classrooms as a criticisim of foreign policy. If a students reads it, the teacher need only ask "does this seem like a good thing if your anyone other than an american?" the question is rhetorical. The answer is obviously "NO"

YEs, my first year politics class was definantly set up as a warning about america's foreign policy. The proffesor, made no bones about it, and he warned us of where he was comming from; asked us to challange him. But really, i mean, there is no surprise that a country's foreign policy is designed to better it's position in the world. It's just that america is more powerful and so more aggressive than others. America is the one we have to defend ourselves against.

I'm not saying it doesnt make sense, only that we reserve the right to critisize it.

This is interesting - thank you for the info - You have every right to criticize it - I will defend to the death your right to criticize it, to borrow a phrase.

Don't think for a minute that everyone here is a pro-war, pro-everythingUS does, neo-con. We are just reasoning with you to discuss things fairly. Your approach, early on, was 'all that the US does is wrong', forgetting Bosnia, the Peace Corps, the techno-revolution, the green revolution. Policy mistakes can be corrected, often at high cost

there is no surprise that there are liberal professors in foreign universities, just like we have here, that's what's not surprising.

Shark, I'm consoling myself lately with the knowledge that we came within a mere three percentage points of unseating a popular, untarnished by scandal, war-time president. 48% of Americans managed to shake off the fear mongering and vote for a man nobody was particularly impressed with, secure in the knowledge that he couldn't possibly be any worse than what we had. That's no mandate by a long shot.

as with almost any perspective there are elements of truth to this, although it is truth only recognizable in a funhouse mirror; but I find this utterly chilling: "America is the one we have to defend ourselves against."

BTW, those were some classic lines Aaman.

The content of the article in question and its subsequent discussion threads made me think of one of my favorite Scriptures.

"Pride goeth before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall" -- Proverbs 16:18

This profound Biblical wisdom is applicable on many levels, but take it as you please.

good thing we are a modest and retiring people

I find this utterly chilling: "America is the one we have to defend ourselves against."


Eric,

Your comming to a realization of the attitudes, fears and opinions of people outside America -- even Canadians like myself. Yes, most Canadians feel america is the largest threat to their country and its identity. That shouldnt be such a surprise to you -- your out of touch.

"Ahhh, I can't stop myself from consuming American popular culture, products, ideology, influence - you must save me from myself."

Another qoute though not from the good book but by a wise man called Mark Twain goes like this "Providence has under its care children, idiots and USA"

I thought drunks were in there, too

Eric,

When we try to protect ourselves from consuming too much american culture we get your government threatening sanctions against us.

For instance when recently we tried to prevent a 24 hour fox news channel from being broadcast on your cable packages, fox asked the Bush admin to strong arm us.

Bush complied and we had to reverse our decision or face economic penalty.

So much from protecting ourselves from rightwing propaganda (aka Fox news).

This is only one of many many cases of america strong interfereing with our own public policy. REcently you guys have threatened us for trying to have a gun registry, and for trying to legalize gay marriages.

This is why we need to be vigilant in critisizing america. The thing is... most countries have it worse than us. You guys are fucking astralia right up the bum these days. They're getting angry about it too...

correction: that fox channel was introduced into our cable packages.. you obviously already had it.

Just because you have a channel doesn't mean you have to watch it - try watching Nickelodeon - I hear they have Sponge Bob

Atkin and other low carb products arent available in Canada and my Canadian friends are clamouring for those items can I get Fox to do something about it?

Naz-have you canadiens figured out the television's on/off button yet? Try it some time!

Hey puss, I thought Splenda was Canadian

Thats typically conservative of you to expect that people refrain from watching somthign when they're bombarded by shit from every angle. ITs everywhere.. its a matter of controling it.

However, its very a-typicl of you to recommend spongebob squarepants because, as you know, you concervatives are tryin to ban spongebob for its amoral message (they even carried their message up north to us- we said get lost).

Appaerntly spongebob is unfit for your god-fearing childern, why should you expect it to be fit for canadian childeren?

I'm starting to suspect that your not a TRUE conservative. Carefull your people dont find you out, they'll crucify you.

Naz, I have news for you - I'm as far from being conservative as one can get - ask anyone

I love spongebob, Southpark, Bill O'Reilly bluster (not his opinions), Steve Earle, The Dead, midnight tokers, good literotica - and also know that democracy and liberalism are what have made this modern world great.

Just because Fox spews drivel does not mean you watch it - and even if you do, it is up to you to form sagacious opinions. Heck - I watch Fox commentary only because it is so weak, one is able to deconstruct it easily. As Shark said in his original post(which we've lost in this thread) - they've got Kid Rock and Ted Nugent.

But I do not think America 2005 is equivalent to Berlin 1933 - I have never faced racism, intolerance or been pulled out of line at an airport. I have seen terror closehand, so don't think I do not know it for what it is. Oh, and India has the bomb, so watch out:)

Splenda is an amazing Canadian achievement and isnt Pepsi edge an American product? Clearly this mutually benefical act shows
that we can put our bitter differences aside and live happily ever after in bikini bottom.

you are a formidable twosome

And Eric, I dunno if the bible allows drunks under the great white fold but I've heard there are happy hours in hell 24 by 7

I find Canadian insecurity to be cute and endearing. In reality, most Canadians know the difference between the two countries is about the width of a pubic hair

or been pulled out of line at an airport

i have! twice! both times in chicago.

i couldn't believe it. i'd just cut my waist-length hair down to what amounts to a military cut.

i bet it was the birkenstocks.

Mark-perhaps it was the turban you were wearing.

or my "terrorist" t-shirt

or your I (heart) Paris T-Shirt

RE: Comment #25 -- Eric,did you that is
where Fogerty "borrowed" the melody and
main chord riffs for "Bad Moon Rising"?

damn HW, you're right, I can sure hear it, you know stuff

ERic says:

"In reality, most Canadians know the difference between the two countries is about the width of a pubic hair"

Your so ignorant its laughable.

The difference between the two cultures is very similer.. since we are both contributors to that culture. But the way in which a Canadian observes and consumes that culture is so far from that of the average American that you have no idea. We consume american culture through a filter of cynicism and criticism. It is a reflex that keeps the insanity of america from corrupting us.

Candadians are not even remotly similar to Americans. You can eaves-drop on a converstation, and accents aside, you can tell which one is american and which is Canadian -- within 30 seconds.

Even the most staunch consevative in Canada is far left of the American democrat. Oh my... you have no idea boys. No idea. And you wonder why the world takes shots at you... you dont even understand your nearest neighbour.

One thing I'll admit, I wish I could be similarly ignorant of Americans. Alas, it is you that has all the power and who wont let anyone forget it.

The differenc is similar? Like unity in diversity?

excuse my typo. "The two cultures are very similar." Understand?

In acknowledgement of Canada's contribution to Western Civilization would everyone please pause to mark the passing of John Vernon, Canada's greatest thespian.

I'm serious.

Naz: More than 500 000 women and cildern killed in the Iraq war..!!

So Naz, do they not have like a basic educational system in Canada? Putting aside the grammatical nightmare which is your posting style, where DID you get that 500,000 figure? That dwarfs even the crazy incorrect 100,000 figure most liberals throw around for total civilian deaths.

Here's a newsflash - total civilian deaths in Iraq - max 27,000, including those caused by terrorists. Civilian deaths caused by coalition forces - well under 10,000.

Dave

Naz, how and why did you transmogrify into Danger? Are you now feeling dangerous?

Even though I'm responding in the same day this was posted, I feel like I'm arriving at the party just after the cops did.

Anyhow, Shark, you can still take solace in the fact that while the GOP offers the now-trademarked "We're Gonna Kick Yer Ass for Your Own Good" Foreign Policy", Democrats still own the "We're Gonna Take Yer Money for Your Own Good Domestic Policy".

nice Mike

Joe - John Vernon is dead!?! OMG, I have to go, just too overset to continue today...

are you sure it isn't just double-secret probation?

No (sob) Eric, he's gone to join Neidermeier's horse...

*sniff*

Where -- in my initial post -- is the heartfelt invitiation to internationally based garrulous motards who can't spell?

Is this an attempt by the left wing media manipulators to disrupt the Formal Surrender and Treasonable Confession of one of their own?

Here's a coupla small requests, folks:

Less coffee, more content.

Less words, more grammar.

Thanks in advance,
The Management

Less words, more grammar.

Good point. Let's start by making that "Fewer words, more grammar."

;-)

MikeKole: "Democrats still own the "We're Gonna Take Yer Money for Your Own Good Domestic Policy".


Mike, that's never bothered me because I don't have any money. See how that works?

I'll make a much better Republican if someone gives me a high-paying job that leaves me lots of free time.

email fwbull@earthlink.net with offers.

Friends.

bhw, all I wanna know is:

if they use fewer words, does that mean there will be less?

: )

Less what?

Note that loading time for this page is now approaching the 2.5 hours it takes to load the "Top 100 Guitarists" thread.

but if that happens then will the highways on the internets become more few?

Great entry, Shark! Keep up the good work!

Re: Jesus as gay - could "turn the other cheek" refer to increasing the pleasure of the penetrator by switching the most friction from one side to the other, and back?

Altogether now:EEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWW!

Shark said: "MikeKole: "Democrats still own the "We're Gonna Take Yer Money for Your Own Good Domestic Policy".

Mike, that's never bothered me because I don't have any money. See how that works? I'll make a much better Republican if someone gives me a high-paying job that leaves me lots of free time."

Sure, Shark, I see how that works. You are the reactionary you said you want to become. My principles? Well, let me open my wallet and see!

no one stirs the hornet's nest like the Shark

A zoological interaction that could only happen at Blogcritics.

Keep the faith, Shark. Nothing worthwhile is easy. The road less taken is the one that makes the difference. And despite the fact that you feel like one who walks the empty streets on the boulevard of broken dreams, trust me: You don't walk alone.

One more thought: Being in the majority is no proof that the majority is correct. Would you rather do what is comfortable or safe or popular -- or would you rather do what's right?

What was that contest you were holding earlier Shark? Something about cliches?

Andy, my thoughts exactly - a surfeit of cliches:)

Hey, just trying to be comforting. You both can kiss my grits.

What are grits? Grit and bear it.
Being in the majority is no proof that the majority is correct. Would you rather do what is comfortable or safe or popular -- or would you rather do what's right?

Nice point - unfortunately, history is written by the winners. Of course, history is a long term perspective thing, so I'm pretty confident liberalism has a fighting chance - it's won out historically.

Never mind - found a good reference to "Alice"

Aaman, grits essentially is a porridge made from ground corn; it is quite popular, I understand, in the American south. "Kiss my grits" is a cliched catchphrase, from an old television show, that serves as a euphemism for "eff off" that avoids censoring.

You're right about history (my dad used to scoff at the texts in history books, calling it "*his* story," and therefore, all but worthless) being written by the "winners." However, what the right wing considers winning, some of us consider immoral. (And vice versa, no doubt.) Absolutely, it is about the long term and the big picture. Few of us have our eyes on that perspective. What Shark expresses is the difficulty one can experience in being one of the few. In my opinion, it is better to be part of the few than part of an immoral, bloodthirsty, greed-ridden, control-freak, conformist, history-writing majority. And I do believe that in the long term, long after we are dead and gone, the side pushing peace, nonviolence, and justice for all will prevail. For me that thought -- the hope for a better future -- makes the near solitude bearable. I hope it can for Shark as well.

" Aaman, grits essentially is a porridge made from ground corn; it is quite popular, I understand, in the American south"

What the Yankees eat with milk and sugar, in the South that will get you laughed at. Butter, salt, maybe ot sauce, a staple food down here.
Welcome back, Miss Sunshine.

Did I leave, Mr. SFC SKI?

And people eat grits with milk and sugar? Interesting. I don't indulge, with or without sweetener, but I didn't know people treated grits like farina.

Hey Shark - what job skills do you have? I need a personal assistant.

Dave

No Natalie, but 48 hours or more without you posting on some topics near and dear to your heart, your absence was noted.

I hope you don't consider me antagonistic, but your worldview is about 180 degrees from mine, and I don't really understand where you are coming from on a lot of issues.

When I lived down south in Louisiana, we
used to eat grits with gravy, sometimes
cheese and onions (mainly in soul food
joints) and Tabasco always. Sugar!? and
milk on them, NEVER.

That's the way the yankees eat it, talk about shock, the look on my Alabama buddies face whan he saw that was priceless? You'd a thought I'd voided my bowels on the floor.

I can imagine SFC Ski. I live out west &
you can't find Grits in 99% of all of
the restaurants around my neck of the
left coast.

I used to love it down south when I'd
order Grits. It was always: "Y'all want
white or yella grits?"

That's funny, Mr. SFC SKI. I often don't post for weeks at a time due to a punishing work schedule. Generally no one notices (not that they should). On the pretty rare occasions when I post with any regularity, it's due to time off for illness (right now, I am on enforced bedrest because I have pneumonia). And in truth, most topics "near and dear" I avoid simply because I want to avoid certain participants or repetitions of the same (IMO) reprehensible and/or frightening attitudes and viewpoints that have depressed me for years.

As for my worldview, well, I yam what I yam and I believe what I believe.

Food, however, makes for a most wonderful topic for discussion! I have learned something today, re: sweetened grits. My spouse is from Jersey and loves grits wih salt, pepper, butter, and extra butter. Right now, we are based in Maryland, which is sort of divided 'twixt north and south. Some restaurants offer it; others do not. Myself, I prefer potatoes -- or polenta, which I adore. It annoys me when I visit the south -- which I find a most loathsome region anyway -- because most restaurants assume patrons want grits. And, stupid me, I tend to forget about it until the noxious nosh ends up on my plate. Of course, I won't send it back for fear of offending the server or cook, so I get stuck with it. For the best breakfasts, I recommend avoiding the southern US and instead visiting New England -- or Europe. (Is this off-topic or what?)

Liberalism has won out historically is right. As far as I'm concerned, in the fiscal arena, most Republicans are liberals, too. They'll argue that because they are often less spend-happy than Democrats (though not the Bush Amdministration!) this is the proof that they are fiscal conservatives.

Rhetoric and bluster is all the show. The policy is what matters. On a handful of social issues, we move back to the right, and most of those unfortunately so. On the vast majority of fiscal issues, we trundle ever leftward.

grits is Girls Raised In The South!

Just want to throw out a sigh of relief after reading comment #155 by Natalie.

Spending a lot of time on blog forums lately and thought I was the only one with non-militaristic, non-hard-power P.O.V.. I'm beginning to think all these Internet political pundits are in love with the Game, the exercise of mobilizing American power. It is tantalizing to think of the world as America's oyster.... How great a world it would be if we could just be allowed to shape it!!! Damn those who get in out way!

Only in America could so many people believe a means always justifies the ends.

One other thing Natalie...

Disregard the comments on your writing ("Andy, my thoughts exactly - a surfeit of cliches"). It's an annoying habit of bloggers on this page to criticize peoples writing rather than their ideas.

A lot of wanna-be writers here, who should really drop the pretensions.

As an educator I'll just clear up a common misunderstanding that a lot of kids, and surprisingly adults here at blogcritics, have regarding intelligence; Good writing, clever wordplay, and otherwise displays of top skills don't equate intelligence nor do they hold any other value against anything else other than itself.

Sydney, I think that comment was a humorous one, in reference to Shark's earlier post.

Grits and guns.

Sugar and a Kick Yer Ass for Your Own Good Foreign Policy.

The internet: ain't it great?!


DaveN, re: my skills:

"paper or plastic, motherfucker?"

Does that give you an idea?

Oh, yeah; and I'm a people person.

re: Natalie -

Frankly, I sleep better at night knowing that Natalie shares my planet.

It's sorta like knowing that a red-tail hawk can survive and prosper in the heart of Manhattan.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers." -- who said that...?

Oh yeah, Bush's favorite 'philosopher'.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers."

...and the Tomahawks...

(Sorry, couldn't resist. It's the rhythm of that naked phrase.)

Sydney: Trust me, their comments don't bother me in the slightest.

Oh, Shark, wow! Thank you!

Sad thing is, Shrubbie probably wouldn't recognize his "favorite philosopher" if he bumped into him on the street.

But, if I can dive back into the bag of cliches on this, the daybefore the 60 th anniversary of Bob Marley's birth: Everything's gonna be all right.

>>DaveN, re: my skills:

"paper or plastic, motherfucker?"

Does that give you an idea?<<

But what do you say if I insist that I want everything double bagged with a paper bag lining each plastic bag?

I've actually known several people who worked in menial grocery store jobs for years until they were ready to move on to something else and jumped almost immediately to fairly high paid clerical/administrative type jobs. Some people just go through phases in their lives where they like a job where they can turn their brain off and work like a robot.

Dave

I'm stickin' with the GOP's implicit mantra: "Fuck you: I got mine."


Yes as ooposed to the Democrats/liberal mantra "Fuck you: what's your is mine!"