Blogcritics: Comments on A good use for Ted Kennedy

Comment by Al Barger

Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:19:00 EST

Miss Nancy, I'm the original author, and I am definitely not from Massachusetts. I hail from the great state of Indiana, from which I recently sought to join Kennedy in the US Senate. I'll note that I did actually meet Senator Kennedy very briefly ten or twelve years ago when he was in Indianapolis with President Clinton dedicating a memorial to Bobby Kennedy and MLK. At the time, I had hair most of the way down to my ass, and I was wearing my now late and lamented Homey the Clown t-shirt. "Homey don't play that!" He shook my hand by automated muscular reflex, but I don't think I registered in his consciousness whatsoever. Good times!

Comment by NancyGail

Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:21:40 EST

Ted may not be a favored son, but Kennedys are hear to stay. So many people are chatting that I am no longer sure who wrote the original post. (Dave?) May I inquire if the poster is from Mass.?

Comment by 4Q2

Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:22:24 EST

Mark-if you want to typify the democratic party try....1) putting your dick back in your pants and quit acting like your confused. ok????

Comment by Dave Nalle

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:53:43 EST

Scott: I wonder how many times this week Dave has called some left-leaning person a socialist or a communist. Isn't that also being an irrational bigot and demonizing someone? Or are you simply "exposing their demonic nature"? Woah, Scott. Are you saying that Socialists and Communists are demonic? Actually, I almost never call anyone a communist and I only call people socialists when it's accurate. And it is both an accurate description of most American liberals today and it is NOT necessarily a perjorative term. It's descriptive. Is Nazi an accurate descriptive term for Republicans? Steve S:There are a lot of similiar concepts and perceptions brought up, when equating Liberalism with an Enemy of the States that must be defeated like terrorism, as there would be with equating the conservative party with Nazism. Surely you can see the parallels? Actually I don't. Liberals have actively aided and supported terrorists either directly or at least tacitly. When was the last time any notable Republican said that Hitler was a cool guy and that we could use some new death camps? Steve S:The difference is that your side is not primarily limited to webpages. Ah, ok. You're delusional. Never mind. Steve S: Now, before you hold the number of anti-Bush webpages as reason to condemn bipartisianship, you should provide evidence showing how many of those are from Americans. Not going to go through over a million pages to figure this out, but I'm sure some are from other countries. Neoliberal Socialism is an international movement. All I can tell you is that the dozen or so I visited were from the US. Dave

Comment by Steve S

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:36:39 EST

There's a huge difference between calling liberalism as a whole an undesirable, even 'evil' trend in general terms and specifically equating the president with Hitler. Surely even YOU can see the difference? There are a lot of similiar concepts and perceptions brought up, when equating Liberalism with an Enemy of the States that must be defeated like terrorism, as there would be with equating the conservative party with Nazism. Surely you can see the parallels? The difference is that your side is not primarily limited to webpages. Now, before you hold the number of anti-Bush webpages as reason to condemn bipartisianship, you should provide evidence showing how many of those are from Americans.

Comment by Scott

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:25:59 EST

I wonder how many times this week Dave has called some left-leaning person a socialist or a communist. Isn't that also being an irrational bigot and demonizing someone? Or are you simply "exposing their demonic nature"? "Republican poobah Grover Norquist, on more than one occasion, has made clear that he intends to ride the conservative movement to the transformation of America into a one-party state" "That's not exactly what Norquist is all about" Perhaps not, but it is what Karl Rove is all about.

Comment by Dave Nalle

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:21:17 EST

Steve S: Yeah, and if you just type in Bush, guess what? You get porn sites too. I'm sure there's a few Bush Nazi sites out there. AND...how many of those sites are just sites bitching about the use of Bush and Nazi showing up together? Well, you see, I went to a lot of those sites. And guess what, aside from the link I quoted with a compendium of quotes equating Bush and Hitler they were mostly liberal sites which were making comparisons of Bush and Hitler. Steve S: Do you know why Dave, that SOME on the Left equate Bush with Hitler? Because they're irrational bigots who use Hitlerian accusations to demonize their enemies? Steve S:We've seen a lot of examples of an openly stated desire to do away with liberalism, particularly by accusing liberals of treason and equating them with "the enemy," in the past couple of years. This has been most notable in the field of conservative-movement book titles, ranging from Ann Coulter's Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism to Sean Hannity's Deliver Us From Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism and Liberalism to Michael Savage's The Enemy Within: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Schools, Faith, and Military. The crass intimidation inherent in these attacks cannot be clearer; and if you go to places like Savage's Web site, "Your Gear for Liberals to Fear" is only a click away. There's a huge difference between calling liberalism as a whole an undesirable, even 'evil' trend in general terms and specifically equating the president with Hitler. Surely even YOU can see the difference? Steve S: Also consider, Republican poobah Grover Norquist, on more than one occasion, has made clear that he intends to ride the conservative movement to the transformation of America into a one-party state -- and using any means necessary to achieve that end. That's not exactly what Norquist is all about, but even if it were true, that makes him the Republican equivalent of James Carville. He's a lobbyist, head of a PAC, an activist and very outspoken on his beliefs, which BTW mostly center on government accountability and trimming federal spending, which I approve of. Steve S:I just give you the quotes of one man here, I could give you pages from many. All with an eliminationist message. All I can tell you Dave, is that you see a lot of Bush = Hitler sites, but you haven't given a shred of thought as to WHY that might be. Well, my conclusion is that it's because there are an awful lot of small-minded, loud-mouthed fools in the liberal camp. Certainly no other explanation makes any sense. Dave

Comment by Steve S

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:57:04 EST

Try a seach on google for 'bush nazi' or 'bush hitler'. Both get over 1.2 million hits. yeah, and if you just type in Bush, guess what? You get porn sites too. I'm sure there's a few Bush Nazi sites out there. AND...how many of those sites are just sites bitching about the use of Bush and Nazi showing up together? That is some very flawed logic, using google search results like that, to determine the pulse of liberals. Do you know why Dave, that SOME on the Left equate Bush with Hitler? We've seen a lot of examples of an openly stated desire to do away with liberalism, particularly by accusing liberals of treason and equating them with "the enemy," in the past couple of years. This has been most notable in the field of conservative-movement book titles, ranging from Ann Coulter's Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism to Sean Hannity's Deliver Us From Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism and Liberalism to Michael Savage's The Enemy Within: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Schools, Faith, and Military. The crass intimidation inherent in these attacks cannot be clearer; and if you go to places like Savage's Web site, "Your Gear for Liberals to Fear" is only a click away. These all may seem relatively minor when taken individually, until you calculate their widespread effect. The eliminationist message coming from movement conservatives isn't relegated to the fringes, but is broadcast to millions of people. In the arena of mass politics, this can have a profound effect. Also consider, Republican poobah Grover Norquist, on more than one occasion, has made clear that he intends to ride the conservative movement to the transformation of America into a one-party state -- and using any means necessary to achieve that end. There was, for instance, the time that the Denver Post reported the following from Norquist: "We are trying to change the tones in the state capitals -- and turn them toward bitter nastiness and partisanship," said Grover Norquist, a leading Republican strategist, who heads a group called Americans for Tax Reform. "Bipartisanship is another name for date rape," Norquist, a onetime adviser to former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, said, citing an axiom of House conservatives. In the same article, Norquist made clear that he saw Texas as a model for the rest of the country, as a place where Republicans would dominate the political scene in ruthless fashion. First to go, he said, were people like Rep. Charles Stenholm, a moderate Democrat: ..."[I]t is exactly the Stenholms of the world who will disappear, ... the moderate Democrats. They will go so that no Texan need grow up thinking that being a Democrat is acceptable behavior." I just give you the quotes of one man here, I could give you pages from many. All with an eliminationist message. All I can tell you Dave, is that you see a lot of Bush = Hitler sites, but you haven't given a shred of thought as to WHY that might be.

Comment by Al Barger

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:06:10 EST

Monsieur Flannagan, I have to say I'm not giving W real high odds on settling beef between Palestinians and Israelis. Allah and Yahweh are eventually going to have to get together and finish their own fight. I'd just be happy to see him get the Iraqis set up enough that we could get the hell out. If he manages to finish up and get us out by the end of his administration, that'd be doing pretty good. By the way, I wouldn't say that I "hate" Ted Kennedy. I'm contemptuous of him, and may thus speak derisively or with honest disrespect. However, I'm not particularly emotionally invested in that dislike in any active way that would be described as "hating" him. My typical reaction to Kennedy is rolling of the eyes, rather than pounding the table in rage. Also, I suspect that Howard Dean might well make a surprisingly effective DNC chair. He'd be a great cheerleader to the faithful, and would probably be a little more controlled than we remember him in the sudden whirlwind of a presidential campaign. If he uses his head, he could be a pretty savvy opponent to the president. Dean's certainly a far sharper tool than Kennedy.

Comment by David Flanagan

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:42:27 EST

I think the key point of focus is Ted Kennedy's timing. He came out with this speech on pulling 12000 troops out immediately and the rest by 2006 a day before a historic election result in Iraq. THEN, the day after that election, two Iraqi officials respond to the media that such a plan is "foolish." So Ted Kennedy has made himself look hapless and ridiculous. President Bush's job approval numbers are going to spike with the success of the Iraqi election, and if he can help broker a real peace between Israel and Palestine, it will strengthen his numbers even more. Lets hope Howard Dean can help pull the DNC back into some semblance of shape. They just can't seem to do anything right these days. David

Comment by Dave Nalle

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:25:26 EST

>>And they get their perception from Rupert Murdoch, Focus on the Family, Rush Limbaugh, who tell the Right that the Left is 100% hatred.<< Well, I don't give any credibility to those souces and I managed to come to that conclusion all on my own. >>How many times have you seen Bush compared to Hitler this week? This week? Zero.<< You must not be trying very hard. Last night someone posted a link here to a flash animation depicting Bush as a Nazi and a Klan member. >>How many times have you seen his administration called Fascist or his policies compared to Nazism? This week? Zero.<< You aren't reading liberal blogs, obviously. >>I've been to Atrios, I've been to Kos, I've been to the Dean Blog, there's nothing there, no references. Perhaps you find some Leftist who blogs from a cabin the woods and believe that he speaks for all.<< Try a seach on google for 'bush nazi' or 'bush hitler'. Both get over 1.2 million hits. If you search for 'kerry nazi' or 'kerry hitler' you only get about 400K hits. >>What democratic leader has done that Dave? << Did I say a leader? I'm talking about people right here on blogcritics. I'm talking about tens of thousands of leftist bloggers. Or if you want a leader, how about Moveon.org with their Bush is Hitler TV commercial? >>So if you find a blog that compares Bush to Hitler, you can say 'aha! We don't have to compromise with the politicans because some Leftist on the web thinks of Hitler'. It's all an excuse, you guys don't intend on compromising anyway, so this is your way out.<< If it were one leftist crank I'd agree with you, but it's a huge number of people all over the web and in other forums Steve, this isn't something I'm making up to 'get' at liberals. It's a real, observable, quantifiable phenomenon. Perhaps this link to a page which compiles just some of the Bush is Hitler comparisons - many in the major media will help you understand: http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html Dave

Comment by Mark Saleski

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:00:17 EST

hmmm....i thought today was groundhog's day. as it turns out, it's masturbating troll day. oh boy.

Comment by 4Q2

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:53:00 EST

Perfect! You two blathering about something unimportant both at the same time. I could't have planned the confusion any better! You guys go!

Comment by Mark Saleski

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:49:08 EST

again, an example of the attempt to coopt the meaning of words. confused? not at all. the only confusion is on your part, in not understanding my point of view.

Comment by Temple Stark

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:47:15 EST

Labels again. Wrong. What's wrong 4Q - shocked that you agreed with me? Thought it was Al with the Chappaquiddick observation? Labels. Wrong.

Comment by 4Q2

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:42:52 EST

Between Mark & Temple, they typify the confusion of the democratic party. You guys go!

Comment by Mark Saleski

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:30:02 EST

i don't live in mass but if i did my reasoning would be: "hey, the senate is our only check 'n balance against the conservative tilt in the house"

Comment by 4Q2

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:21:00 EST

And, though he may have once had usefulness, Kennedy no longer does and probably hasn't since Chappaquiddick. Hear Hear! and yet the people of mass still vote for him...what are they thinking!

Comment by Temple Stark

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:04:12 EST

And, though he may have once had usefulness, Kennedy no longer does and probably hasn't since Chappaquiddick. President Bush was more than willing to work with him on NCLB though so they must like each other to some extent.

Comment by Steve S

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:42:33 EST

Dave, the message from the left is 100% hate all the time? This post is about Ted Kennedy wanting our troops to pullout. Where's the hate man? Oh, yeah, it's in the post, saying a politician has an STD and going on about poisoned puppies. And Ted is just asking for a troop withdrawal? And how do you read such information?....... Look guys, the message fromt he Left is 100% hate all the time okay, well, you're wrong. There was no hate from the Left here. You just automatically label it upon us anyway though. I'm telling you folks, no compromise. How can somebody compromise with you, when they believe that EVERYTHING you say stems from hate? And read for yourself, right here folks, the hate is coming from the Right.

Comment by Temple Stark

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:55:36 EST

I don't know why you're getting so worked up over defending such a lame post. I'll just leave it at - you're wrong again Al. And getting whiny in the process.

Comment by 4Q2

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:54:25 EST

Edward Kennedy is a louse...always has been and always will be. Remember when the dems thought he would make a great president? Now that was funny! He typifies the confusion found in the democratic party.

Comment by Shark

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:45:50 EST

Dave, I don't hate you or what you say; I hate how you say it. Jeesus gawd! Entertain me, motherfuckers!

Comment by Steve S

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:06:38 EST

No one on the right is going to be willing to deal with the left when the perception is that their policies originate in nothing but pure hatred and demonization of Bush. And they get their perception from Rupert Murdoch, Focus on the Family, Rush Limbaugh, who tell the Right that the Left is 100% hatred. How many times have you seen Bush compared to Hitler this week? This week? Zero. How many times have you seen his administration called Fascist or his policies compared to Nazism? This week? Zero. I've been to Atrios, I've been to Kos, I've been to the Dean Blog, there's nothing there, no references. Perhaps you find some Leftist who blogs from a cabin the woods and believe that he speaks for all. Like I said, when you call the leader of the opposition a new Hitler and call the opposition party a bunch of racists and bigots, you're not laying the groundwork for compromise What democratic leader has done that Dave? So if you find a blog that compares Bush to Hitler, you can say 'aha! We don't have to compromise with the politicans because some Leftist on the web thinks of Hitler'. It's all an excuse, you guys don't intend on compromising anyway, so this is your way out.

Comment by JR

Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:04:01 EST

Dave Nalle: I wasn't talking about this post. I was talking about the irrational hatred which completely dominates the mindset of the left. Yes you were; you wrote "100%" and "all the time". Or do you not understand the logical implications of those words? And you DON'T see the same level of personal attack among those on the right. Maybe you don't. Or maybe you do and you're just flat out lying. It's hard to believe that anyone can be so divorced from reality as to believe let alone write a comment like that on this thread. I'm impressed at your audacity, if nothing else.