Ah, finally someone has brought up the issue of concert security here. Thanks Eric. I am not here to blame the concert security, but positively ask some questions. In all of the descriptions of the events, I never once read "... after tussling with security guards" or "... alert security guards spotted the individual and took appropirate action".

Now, I know that gun will beat a meathead (sorry, long time fan of rock... so obviously not a long time fan of meathead security guards) every time. I have not once seen security mentioned even in passing. It was a metal show, right? So I would imagine there were 2 or 3 300 pound guys at the front of the stage. Also, for general moshing and stagediving concerns... the crowd should have been kep back a good 8 to 10 feet from the front of the stage... with said meatheads manning the space between.

in closing, I guess I should say not every secutity guard is a meathead, but almost all I have encountered are. That is a whole 'nother Sociology term paper that I could deliver though.

apparently no one even saw the gun until he was onstage shooting - clearly this was a security failure, but more so for the club in general to have not had any kind of metal detector or screening process, than of any individual guard who didn't step in and tackle the fucker on his beeline to the stage

Everyone has apparently missed the point. A metal detector doesn't do any good if the person with the gun doesn't go through the door. Besides, if a planful of people let three people hijack it with a fucking boxcutter, who do you think is going to stop someone with a gun? Not many people in this morbidly obese, flaccid, decrepit country.

I'm not willing to lay so much blame on the security crew. The killer jumped a fence and entered a backstage loading area. There is no way any type of metal detector would be practical in that situation. Another factor that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is that some clubs, especially smaller ones, have had issue in the past with trigger-happy security guys beating kids to pieces for hopping up on the stage and grabbing a pick of a mic stand, so there may be just a second of hesitation before the guy decides to act when he sees someone approach the stage. Also the size of the venue and the size of the crowd are also an issue in this case. A show in a 450 seat venue cannot be expected to supply the same security measures as a 5,000 seat venue. While it is true that if this or that had been different, we wouldn't have this situation, the practical reality is that no one can protect anything from all possible situations, and that somewhere between no security at all and too much security, an equallibrium is reached by factoring numerous issues such as size of crowd, type of crowd, cost of security crew, expected revenue, normally expected threat level, etc. I wouldn't expect a 400 seat show to have much security at all. Besides, metal detectors would really bog things down at a metal concert....with all the bullshit hardware the fans wear on thier clothes. We must get away from blaming everyone under the sun for bad things that happen. There is but one person to blame for this whole thing. It's not the gun maker, it's not the club owner, it's not the security crew, it's not MTV, it's not video games. It is the guy who left home with a gun in his hand, and thankfully, he has already been sent straight to hell for what he did.

very perceptive points Bone, thanks very much. You are right in general, of course, about not being able to stop everything under all circumstances, but i do think we have to move the sliding scale a bit farther toward more security including more secure peripheries. Should the guy have been able to hop the fence and cruise through the back entrance so easily?