Fine post. I agree with everything.

Anyone who used steroids to enhance their home rum hitting prowess should be banned from baseball. Permanently. Period.

And any records they accrued while all juiced up should have a perma-asterisk attached to them.

I don't think the players' union will stand back and let the Yanks try to get out of their contract. The union is fighting against steroid testing as it is; there's no way they're going to let a player be fired for steroid use.

Maybe they should all have to pee in a cup every day of the season to prove they're clean.

I have mixed feelings on steroids. These are tools many players use to enhance performance. They do a lot of things to enhance performance- lift weights, study film, watch nutrition, etc. Where should the line be drawn?

I see steroids as being precious little different than vitamin supplements. They enhance physical performance and are taken in excess of what the body could produce, and of what can be had in the course of regular nutrition.

The question is one that regards the integrity of the game. Giambi made his body stronger, but he still had to hit the ball- something not guaranteed by taking steroids. I would say that boozing and taking of recreational drugs should be at least as scrutinized as the taking of performance enhancing drugs, since alcohol and cocaine are performance inhibiting drugs.

Finally, Pete Rose's gambling on games while a manager brings the integrity of the game far more into question than a player's use of steroids.

The line should be drawn at doing drugs that are illegal.

Mike--Steroids have led to the death of multiple athletes, including Lyle Alzado and Ken Caminiti. There is no comparison between steroids and watching film or taking vitamins.

Giambi still had to hit the ball. Fine. But lots of guys hit the ball, bat .220 and are out of the league and starting alandscaping business because they couldn't get it out of the infield. Giambi made sure when he hit the ball, his 'roided up body would get it out of the park quick.

As a Yankee fan I say Giambi is an idiot! I also heard this morning on ESPN that Bonds has admitted to using some kind of "cream" and also some kind of "clear liquid" but amazingly enough, he didn't know what they were at the time!

There was a golf special on a while back, it was Macguire against a bunch of PGA pros. Peter Jacobsen actually gave Mac some grief about 'roids during the telecast. Saying something along the lines of "oh yeah, and I never took steroids!" It actually kind of put a hush on the crowd for a little bit.

As far as Pete Rose goes, I just want to know if he ever bet AGAINST the Reds. Otherwise, what difference does it make if he bet on other teams?

Andy, I tend to agree with you on Rose. What he did was wrong, in terms of betting on games when he was involved. But in all games, he bet on the Reds.

I love Bonds. He didn't know he was taking a steroid. Who was rubbing the fucking cream on him?

I'm not sure who was doing the rubbing...I don't think I want to know!

Unfortunately for Rose, the rules of baseball are quite clear on betting on the game and Giamatti gave him the appropriate punishment. But I believe he belongs in the hall of fame. Maybe for 2 different things. Most hits in a career and dumbest career move by a ball player!

really great post Matt and I share your disgust. The line is illegal drugs that not only give an unfair advantage but threaten the health of the user. And who is to say Giambi's health problems aren't related to steroid use, by the way?

I understand the argument about "you still have to hit the ball," and that is true, but baseball has to join the 21st century and clean up its act like it did in the '80s when all the toot heads were running around bouncing off walls. The player's union are simply acting as obstructionist assholes and can't be allowed to get away with it.

And regarding that pondscum Rose, the rules couldn't be more plain or emphasized on gambling, and there is zero excuse for him doing it while managing, which in some ways is even worse than while playing. I think he should be admitted to the Hall very explicitly as a player only, which would recognize his greatness in that regard, but with specific mention of his banning due to his misconduct as a manager. I hate that fucker.

I just hate it when Eric minces his words like that! Eric, please, tell us how you REALLY feel about Rose!

Ken Caminiti had a recreational drug problem that contributed to his death, not just a history of steroid use. He was all coked up when his heart stopped.

What bhw said about Caminiti. If I'm not mistaken, Alzado had problems beyond steroids with that white powder.

You named two players deceased who have used steroids. Care to see the list of players deceased as a result of cocaine? It's a much longer list, and both have been around about as long.

But my point was *not* to say that steroids are safe. My position on them is that the user takes the risks because he has enormous incentives to do so. For it to ever stop, the disincentives have to outweigh the incentives- such as a total ban from the game. Less than that, players will keep looking for that edge.

I think it was a good thing for Giambi to come forward and admit it, so that he can put it behind him and get help. If the climate is such that there is only public scorn for coming forward, players will only have incentive to try to mask the use or lie about it. Like Bonds.

Does anyone know if steroids are addictive in the same way that cocaine and heroin are?

good question, I don't know, but even if they aren't physically addictive they are powerfully psychologically so

Oh my God! Lyle Alzado is dead???

I should probably clarify by saying the results of usage are powerfully psychologically addicting: who would want to give up the extra size, strength and feelings of invincibility?