Oh come the hell on. All that happened was that you lost an election.

You need help.

P.S. Don't come back and call me some kind of crazy right-winger. I'm a libertarian, the Christians scare the hell out of me and I didn't vote for Bush.

the American people revolted and assassinated their bright shining star without knowing his real potential.

You don't get it, yet you write the words down - this is exactly why we didn't vote for Kerry. He didn't show any potential. He never stood for anything. He just carped about what Bush did wrong, or what Bush didn't do, offering no actual solutions other than "we'll fix this." Kerry, to be elected over an incumbent, you have to show HOW you're going to fix all the things you see as wrong. Kerry didn't do that, and so we chose to keep the known over replacing him with the unknown.

What hope? What positive agenda? The reason I could not support Kerry is precisely because he was unrelentingly negative in this campaign and offered no solutions whatsover.

How many people who actually voted Kerry were really voting for him? The most vocal sound from the camp seemed to be "Anybody but Bush!" That is, Kerry was seen as an alternative, but not really a prize to be desired.

Obviously, this wasn't everybody, but it sure seemed to pop up a lot. For those people, even supporting Kerry was all about Bush.

I heard an awful lot about "what" he wanted to accomplish, most of which was fine and dandy, but very little about "how"

I think I explain Why the democrats lost the election in my post.

its about time and energy. They just simply directed their time and energy in the wrong direction. Read my post on my personal feelings about it.

Bryan, why don't you join Blogcritics and post it here rather than just link to it?

I am one that really did a lot of research on the candidates and the comments above really show how Americans think. We need information fed to us in soundbytes to make informative opinions instead of thinking for ourselves. The George Bush plan was simply more of the same which is easy to understand and get behind if you are for his agenda. Then to counter Kerrys positive agenda for change Bush put out this wall of sound and propaganda that labeled Kerry as a flip flopper, a liar, an evil politician, a... well you know. Kerry just did not compete with W on the level he needed to get his message out. GW got his message out where it matters, to the hicks and the fanatics and they came out and voted. It is as simple as that.

actually, it's not as simple as that and a more nuanced version of reality would probably be received better by those not in total agreement with your perspective. I do not believe 51% of the nation is "fanatics and hicks." IN fact one might reasonably label the view expressed above as "fanatical"

Unfortunately, Eric, the Bush campaign effectively derided the idea of "nuance," so we can't really expect the electorate to think about complex issues in a nuanced way anymore. The election showed that people don't want to think about difficult issues; they wan't sound-bite platitudes.

bhw, why exactly did the elction show that?

Because Kerry was derided for talking about "nuance." The Bush campaign very effectively convinced a large portion of America that the world is a very simple place. If you're not with us, you're with the terrists, remember? It's really that simple.

That is the thinking that America voted into office for a second term. Nuance is dead.

"Where we are now is equal to the dark ages"

Get a grip, you loon...

"our leader fought the good fight. He fought for the little guy"

And "little guy" is EXACTLY what this elitist billionaire thought of you all...

"GW got his message out where it matters, to the hicks and the fanatics and they came out and voted. It is as simple as that."

So, 51% of the electorate is composed of "hicks and fanatics"?

Why don't you just move somewhere else, if you hold the American people in such contempt?

Yeah, I agree. I apologize to the hicks and fanatics out there. I highly doubt they are reading this though. If you read my post from yesterday you'll see my real opinion on how this election was lost -- among other things. It is time to move forward though. Hopefully --at the least-- the American people will expose George Bush for what he really is of the next four years. It is going to be one wild ride.

I've decided that GW won the election for one major reason. Americans absolutely hate being told how to act and what to think. I guarantee you that every person who received that letter from the Guardian voted the opposite of how they were told to. This is a Jack Webb nation. We want just the facts maam, and we are plenty smart enough to see through the deceptions of a Fahrenheit 911 and to realize that celebrities are no better able to select a president than the rest of us. I personally would've voted for Mickey Mouse if he was running against W, but at the same time I cancelled my subscription to Time because of the blatant slant to their reporting. In one breath they hack on W's lack of speaking skills and in the next print an entire article called, "What Kerry means to say."

Man I love getting you people all worked up. See, if you look at the voting results and where Bush won and where Kerry won you will see that the rural vote went for George Bush. Why is that? Why did the majority of John Kerry wins come from the most populated areas of our country? Even in my state of Ohio the most populated areas around civilization and cities went for Kerry and the corn field working Amish and the rednecks went for Bush? The center of the civilized world New York went for Kerry. (The people that experience 9/11 first hand) California went for Kerry. I'm sure there are many reasons for this but my thinking is that people that participate in society will learn the truth. People that live in rural areas are just slightly more able to go for more basic beliefs. They think force is the answer. If it crosses you, just shoot it! Even the people that I know that voted for Kerry are educated people. People that work for NASA, leaders of companies, people that are involved and these people do their homework. The few that I know that voted for Bush are highly right wing fanatical Christians, self centered bigots and retired people that have no connection to the outside world except for Fox News propaganda. This comment above really just summed it up for me:

"What hope? What positive agenda? The reason I could not support Kerry is precisely because he was unrelentingly negative in this campaign and offered no solutions whatsover."

If you are not doing your homework then you get propaganda in your face. Kerry had an extremely positive message. You can still go to his web site and read the positive message and his ideas on how he was going to make change and pay for it. The reason he was so negative in his campaign is because he realized that was the only way he could compete. If you saw the Dem convention they tried to take the high ground and got stomped. They tried to play a positive campaign and Bush unleashed the attack dogs that painted him as soft and unfit for the oval office.

I'm done with this thread. We'll see what happens in the coming years.

The counties Bush won had something like 170 million people living there. The counties Kerry won had something like 110 million people living there.

Bush won something like 2600 counties. Kerry won less than 600.

The two education demographics Kerry won were:

- 1 People with Masters and Doctoral degrees

- 2 People who dropped out of high school

In other words, a tiny percentage of the elites, coupled with mindless hordes of the semi-literate and uneducated, voter for Kerry. Everyone else (in the aggregate) voted for Bush.

Spin this all you want. Bush won, decisively. Kerry lost.

DEAL WITH IT

"In other words, a tiny percentage of the elites, coupled with mindless hordes of the semi-literate and uneducated, voter for Kerry."

*voted for Kerry...

And the only age group that voted for Kerry was the 18-29 bunch. And they didn't turn out in very large numbers.

BTW, I am part of that age group. And I voted for Bush.

And there will not be a draft, despite the lies of MTV's "rock the vote"...

so RJ, if we combine your comment (19) with yensids comment (15), which ones are fanatics and which ones are hicks?

Don't worry. Kerry has a plan for this, I know it.

Oh please... Melodramatic much?
I'm a Republican who voted for Kerry... but it's no more the "dark ages" now than it has been for the last 4 years...
Complicated? Partisan? Extreme? yes.
But you need to get a grip on reality.

This was an election - that's all. Better men than John Kerry have run and lost before. He's not dead. He wasn't assassinate. He just didn't have enough supporters to out number the Bush supporters.

Sheesh.

"...but it's no more the "dark ages" now than it has been for the last 4 years..."

Um, but the day is young.

Sorry, gotta run! The US is bombing the shit out of that newly 'sovereign' Fallujah on TV!

And then I have to go to my Creationism class, and afterwards, we're gonna go crack some married faggots' skulls in the name of God.

Like Bush, He spoke to me personally.

Whoo-hoo!

Shark,

Is this an example of your sense of humor?

S'matter with ya, dude?

You desperately need to get a life.

GW

Ok, ok.... RJ, I am an open minded person. I love stats so if you can point me to stats on the subject from a non-partisan source I would love to see them. Don't say that you heard it on the radio or TV. I want stats and then I might change my mind. Bring it on because my mind is open and my brain is exposed...

Is this an example of your sense of humor?

I've been sayin that with every post of yours I've read.

Isn't there some country, here, over there, somewhere, that you can go destroy?

hhhmmm...the election in general. First of all, Bush wins. I know alot of people are thinking "somebody needs to take this guy out".

Things are a mess in America. The reason? The public input is a crucial aspect of the function of democracy. The public has been sitting on their asses. It really doesn't matter who is in office, they just want your vote. So whoever is in office, it is up to the people to tell them what to do, that way they will get your vote next election...

Rise up America. We've got 4 years of ass kicking to do. We have to take control again.

peaceloveguidance

"but what can I do?" says the effete typical American (who thinks voting is the only voice in democracy).

The answer? It is called 'throwing a brick'

peaceloveguidance

John Kerry was never a leader nor did he ever bring anything of substance to the table.

That bastard would have sold out everyone in America just as he sold out and betrayed his fellow soldiers.

Face it. The Democrats got bitch smacked like a two dollar whore in nearly every race.

Face it, Rove's propaganda beat facts on the ground because the "reality-based community" seems to be in the minority.

But the piper will be paid, so I'd suggest you accumulate cash as quickly as you can - there are going to be some real bargains around before too long unless Congress reins in this anything-but-conservative adminstration.

Thank you P. Diddy, you did the Republicans a favor. Vote or Die?

Several of the news and news tabloid shows have already announced who's in and who's out for celebrities.

Matt Damon and pal Ben Lo as well as "punk" Ashton Kuthcer, P. Diddy and several other big named Kerry supporters were all "out". Brad Pitt was one of a few as being called "in" because of his support for stem cell research. That was a lame stunt. They showed him standing in some room looking through a fucking microscope. He stated "seems to be some pretty promising technology". For all he knows he was looking at bacteria in some pond water.

come on Truth...don't mince words...tell us how you REALLY feel!!!

As long as there are people like
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and Karl Rove and Tom DeLay and John Ashcroft, and slews of other unconscious Gophers in power, America will be nothing more than a military industrial complex with a heavy handed, greedy approach to the rest of the world. Shame, shame.

Kerry loss is easy to explain. He is quite liberal and the majority of citizens do not want someone that liberal. He tried to hide from calling himself a liberal. Why do libs hide the fact they are lib? Why not be proud of what you are? Bush has labelled himself "compasionate conservative". Was he afraid to call himself conservative? Not in the least... he proudly announced it. He did not attempt to hide himself (not that he could anyway). Kerry would not label his politics as liberal but there is no doubt he is and the people saw it. Now if the majority HAD wanted a liberal then they would have voted him in. If you are liberal then please be proud of it and be honest about it. Dont hide behind labels like "progressive", etc. The dems are going to have to elect folks who are centrist and more conservative. They may not like it but the political reality is clear. The country, like it or not has moved right and it votes right and center. Zell Miller represents to me the type of democrat that could be elected in today's climate... too bad he's too old and retiring. How about Barak Obama? He was elected but he seems a very reasonable and centrist democrat. I think for the Dems he represents their future... the libs are out. The dems wont believe it though and they will continue on with the likes of Hillary. Nope, not gonna work. Unless they change they will continue to lose serious political ground. Think about this... the dems have been eroding their power and now have the least amount of power that they've had since reconstruction. They have cut their throats with liberal ideology. Carter positioned himself as a religious conservative... he won. He was no conservative but that is how he positioned himself. Clinton, tried to position himself as a new, more conservative democrat... and a southern baptist. It worked. Ultimately he proved more liberal than centrist but one cannot ignore the trend. and it was on Clinton's watch that the House of Reps went republican for the first time in 50 years. Dems had better wake up or they will continue to lose ground. They cannot change the electorate by insults... they have tried and only made enemies.

Yensid

I also voted for Kerry because I think he was a principled and dedicated civil servant who had some valid ideas for this country.

I am sad too, but don't dispair, in fact use this emotion to plan for 2008 and galvanize our resources. I believe there are more intelligent and moderate people than we think in this country and the pendulum will swing back to reality soon, but it will require effort and real discussion.

Fret not my friend, the sun will shine on this great nation again!!!

as long as democrats keep picking their MOST liberal representative to run for president, you folks will continue to be disappointed.

"I love stats so if you can point me to stats on the subject from a non-partisan source I would love to see them."

USA TODAY, 11-04-2004 edition.

"but what can I do?" says the effete typical American (who thinks voting is the only voice in democracy).

The answer? It is called 'throwing a brick'

You gotta love the Left. They lose an election, they resort to violence.

"Brad Pitt was one of a few as being called "in" because of his support for stem cell research. That was a lame stunt. They showed him standing in some room looking through a fucking microscope. He stated "seems to be some pretty promising technology". For all he knows he was looking at bacteria in some pond water."

ROTFLMFAO!!!

RJ, I guess you can try to twist stats anyway you want and honestly it is fairly easy. But if
you take an honest look at the numbers you'll see that the elite actually voted for Bush according to Gallup. (You didn't make an honest effort to get me stats so I found my own) Yes, The education range was highschool (blue collar) and Post-grads. But look at the income range? Who is pandering to the elite? 41% to 57% for Bush for workers earning over $75,000 a year. And the age range was young and old for Kerry.

18-49: 49% - 47%
50-64: 48% - 48%
65+: 48% - 44%

Mindless hordes? I'm thinking that you are one of those elite that you distain dude. Get a grip.

I earn over $75k a year...and I guarantee you I'm not part of any 'elite'!

I'm just a dumb NASCAR watching goddamn yankee...that's what they call us yankees that move to the south and stay!

I have a problem with your numbers yensid...your first age group spans 31 freaking years!!! the 2nd only 14 and the 3rd would average what, 10, maybe 15?

Sorry, just telling you what I got off the Gallup site. If you have better numbers (and links) pass them on. Regarding calling you elite I am only trying to make a point that you can twist stats any way you want. Congratulations on your high salary.

trust me...with 2 teenage daughters, it ain't high enough!!!

Re comment #38;
What have you got against liberals? - A bird has two wings...a right wing and a left wing - Keeps him from flying in a circle, true?

Andy, I'm curious, over 75K a year, not an 'elite' and complaining about how it is not enough for a family of four. What do you think Bush will do to improve that situation? Or is that not his responsibility, but yours?

it's mine...it's not enough because I live with entirely toooooo much estrogen! I never realized how expensive it can be to raise 2 teenage daughters...

Again, USA TODAY has the numbers.

Those without any educational achievement voted for Kerry.

And those with Masters Degrees and PHDs (a tiny minority) voted for Kerry.

Everyone else (high school grads, people with Associates Degrees, people with 4-year degrees) voted for Bush.

(In the aggregate, of course.)

So, I'll repeat:

A thin crust of elites and an unwashed horde of the semi-literate and unwashed supported Kerry. Everyone else voted for Bush.

DEAL WITH IT...

RJ - when you continue spouting your generalizations about Kerry supporters, you do very little to make your case about Bush being the better candidate.

Why don't you just shut the hell up already - do yourself and President Bush a favor.

Besides, I wash at least once a day and sometimes twice and I voted for Kerry - so I resent the implication.