Flanagan: "Will DNC leaders ease up on the rhetoric? No. Instead, they'll ramp it up even more, and they have already initiated 9 lawsuits in Florida! I'm very worried... You should be too."

This is too much: A Republican GIRLIE-MAN shaking with fear. Davey, you might as well just strap on a tu-tu, some pink jack-boots, and cwy your wittle heart out...

big bad wiberals....

snif, snif...

The Freepi are projecting again.

You realise that if Kerry wins, Eric will set Shark, Hal Pawluk, Jim Carruthers and Mac Diva to work clearing up all the mess from all those exploded heads.

I hadn't realized it, but this kind Republican slander is all over the place on the web.

It's amazing how once the message gets out, the worker bees all get behind it in lock-step.

What scares me about this is that the right has been consistent in accusing theier opponents of what they're doing (pay attention to the next Bush video clip you see, for instance) so they may be leading up to major violence during this election.

It wouldn't suprise me, based on incidents like the way they bused in 75 thugs in 2000 to stop the Florida recount in the Miami-Dade county offices with violence.

Dave Neiwert has been analysing these alledged incidents here:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_10_24_dneiwert_archive.html#109889220177028152

Well worth reading. A lot more informative that the lies, slander and spin the Freepi keep posting.

Thanks, Tim, and in the interest of keeping everyone better informed, here's a clickable link to Dave Niewert's site analysing the alleged incidents.

Sorry, forgot that BC isn't configured to turn URLs into links :(

Worse still, Tim, long URLs don't break so the center column expands, as this one did, and part of the page is now off screen on the right :-)

How typical. Democrats ignore the numerous violent attacks on Republicans, and then claim Republicans are violently attacking Democrats.

"WAR IS PEACE!"

"RECOVERY IS RECESSION!"

"BUSH IS HITLER!"

"DAY IS NIGHT!"

"UP IS DOWN!"

"OJ WAS FRAMED!"

"KERRY HAS BEEN CONSISTENT!"

Jesus...

RJ, you forgot:


"IRAQ IS FINE!"


Yer welcome.

Actually, Shark, you can say:

IRAQ IS BETTER!

And there is a very simple reason why I'm pointing all of this out now:

1. If you look at what's happening, you see a logical progression from anger, to aggression, to thuggery, with some indications of violence starting to appear as well. The final step from violence is, of course, deadly violence.
   
2. When something does happen, you'll not be able to say that it was all a terrible accident. It won't be an accident because, as I've said over and over again, it's a logical progression.

I must misunderstand your #10, David: are you saying that civil war in Iraq is not too far away?

If so, didn't we already know that?

Hal,

You are quite right. I should have said:

IRAQ IS FALLING INTO CIVIL WAR!

Thank you for correcting me on that.

David

Sorry David, but I disagree strongly. The right can NOT be trusted. They stole one election and there will be great strife and violence in the land if they try it again. If Bush wins the vote, fair game... he is elected (not re-elected). However, us on the left have a serious fear that regardless of the election results... he won't leave.

Come on! Thugs for Kerry? What the hell do you call putting 40,000 blacks on the do not vote list in Florida because they had similar names to blacks with criminal records. That looks like some serious thuggery to me. How about surrounding the polls in poor neighborhoods with a strong police force to intimidate folks to stay inside. The difference is, y'all do it with a lot of money... so it is more discreet. We don't have the money you do so we fight how we can. Sadly, we ARE a divided nation... and this IS a class war.

Running over Katherine Harris is stupid, obviously. It is a murderous threat that does NOT represent the left. However, I'd like to see her in jail for election fraud. She would be safe from cars there.
I would love to be proven wrong. I would love it if I were just a pissy paranoid liberal. However, we are all very prepared if that is not the case.

For America, Vote Democrat

Kerry in a Landslide 2004!

Just plain drivel. David Flanagan's so-called evidence is pretty much non-existent. Democrats have lived through four years of Bush rule with tolerance and peacefulness. The record is there for any thinking person to see.

On the bright side, the increasing shrillness of FF and other far Right dittoheads reveals their desperation.

Those lawsuits in Florida? Wonderful. They show Democrats are being vigilant this time around and learning of efforts to suppress the vote earlier. Furthermore, filing lawsuits, ie., appealing to the legal system, is quite the opposite of violence.

Just one thing should be pointed out to everybody who reads one of these *thugs* for Kerry blogs:

1) When Kerry is doing good in polls, the Right says "Those aren't votes for Kerry, they're votes against Bush. It's the Anybody-But-Bush crowd".

2) When violence (which has occurred against BOTH sides) occurs, then of course David wants you to know it's not anti-Bush violence then, but pro-Kerry violence.

So to recap the theme David has going on his threads:

A vote for Kerry is really anti-Bush.
Violence against Bush is really pro-Kerry.

Come on! Thugs for Kerry? What the hell do you call putting 40,000 blacks on the do not vote list in Florida because they had similar names to blacks with criminal records.

That never happened. The Justice Department investigated claims like this one in the weeks following the election. Janet Reno, Clinton's Attorney General ordered the investigation. Only one or two complaints ever really were shown to have any validity by Reno and, ironically, those problems all occurred in Democrat-controlled counties. You'll need to back up your wild accusations with some facts.

David

As I've said. I'm telling you this in advance. If Kerry loses and people begin to riot, as even some Democrats fear, I'll have at least stated this in advance. If I'm wrong, then feel free to call me whatever names you wish.

David

I think there's a good chance that if Bush steals another election, there will be *riots and/or violence.

There comes a point in this waning 'democracy' when folks will refuse to accept vote fraud and/or the fact that their votes no longer count.

What happens when you can't voice your opinion via the vote?

"Fuck it. Where's my Molotov Cocktail?"



*But then again, I thought the 2000 election should have produced a violent reaction -- which it didn't. The Left showed quite the restraint while the Bush administration went all Right-Wing Radical Reactionary on a populace that gave the other guy the majority of votes.

I fully expected Bush to reach out to Gore, ask him to meet and/or take a position in the administration -- which anyone who had a real interest in the health of the nation would have done -- but NO, they said "Screw it, this is our chance to rape the environment, give to the rich, go to war for oil, and start the Fourth Reich."

Pretty ballsy, insensitive, and -- umm... what's the word...?

Thuggish?

BTW: In a move that's either synchronicity or prophetic pragmatism, the Bushies and the Far Right recently allowed the ban on Assault Weapons to expire.

Guess they'll need 'em to protect their golf courses and gated communities.



"They got the guns, love -- but we got the numbers; gonna win, yeah we're takin' over!" -- Jim Morrison

I'm not looking forward to the violence when the huge Kerry lead starts to sink in.

I expect the Right to bus in thugs in their thousands, as they did in a smaller way in Miami-Dade to stop the recount and get Bush into office. 75 people was all it took there.

Looking at the behavior of this administration, I think it's a likely possibility.

Especially since Kerry will win with a clear, unambiguous margin of at least 6% of the popular vote.

Once the violence is suppressed, of course, Kerry will then have to deal with the mess Bush made.

Shark thinks Bush should be made to clean up this mess and I appreciate his viewpoint, but Bush can make things even worse, especially as a lame-duck.

I'm happy with Kerry doing the clean-up.

HAL - how many times are you going to bring up that damned bus??? Is that the only story you have? Jesus!!!

How long are the brain-washed on the right going to claim it's the Dems that are violent?

That "damned bus" changed the course of democracy using violence.

I would think a true patriot would be concerned about it, rather than trying to suppress it.

That's BS...they recounted the votes...a million times...and here's a headline for you...GORE STILL LOST!!!

No, andy, it's not.

Now you can say: Yes, it is.

And I'll say: No, it's not.

Then ...

But reality won't change.

you are right Hal...the reality won't change...nor will your or my assesment of it change...

The right exhibited a willingness to take us to the brink of violence in 2000, and to undermine our democratic system in order to win power.

I'm not so worried that the right will consciously employ serious violence, what I'm really worried about is that their vicious rhetoric has sunk into a part of their base in a way that Republican leaders might not understand. If they continue to use and endorse the vicious anti-liberal rhetoric and continue to push the envelope as they did in 2000, I worry that things could get out of control.

There are, of course, liberals who are thugs and idiots, but it's just a fact that there are fewer of them. The right wants to have it both ways: when it serves their purposes, they portray liberals and wimps; when it serves their purposes, they portray them as thugs.

David Flanagan: As one who has two degrees in psychology as well as some counseling experience, this is a no-brainer.

Heh heh

I was going to leave it alone, JR, but now that it's on the table, my philosophy has been, since 1967, that "Performance trumps Pedigree, every time."

That's especially true when the person with the pedigree brings it up as "proof" for a point.

Weak, weak, weak.

Report Republican intimidation of voters here: http://www.videovotevigil.org/.

Note there, on the front page, you can also download a movie of Bush acting very 'Presidential'. (screen shot available for those who do not want the movie). (Actually Bush, NOT photoshop)

Report Republican voter intimidation!

"Performance trumps Pedigree, every time."

And RESULTS trumps both performance and pedigree! We'll have to wait and see if the results match my commentary above.

David

And vote Democratic Voter intimidation here!

Thanks,

David

Oops! I mean, REPORT (not vote) Democratic voter intimidation here! :-)

David

Here is an article by Alan Lichtman, who analyzed voter suppression in Florida in 2000. I have read the civil rights commission report in its entirety. What one notices most in reading the report is that the Republican members of the panel do not disprove the allegations of suppression, but that they try to evade them in various ways. I will see if I can find the report online. I know Atrios used to have a link.

At least one news story has begun to question the crime and the 2004 election meme. As I suspected, many of the reported incidents will turn out to be crime with no political intent involved. It is pretty obvious, really. An addict who robs a GOP office is not thinking about politics. He needs a fix. A doctor's office or fast food joint would do just as well.

Police in some cases consider the thefts to be non-political burglaries or lack evidence to call the break-ins politically motivated. But regardless, observers consider a wave of reported break-ins, shooting incidents, attacks and vandalism at partisan political sites this year as yet another sign that the race between President Bush and Sen. Kerry is one of the most bitterly fought in recent memory.

And those observers are often Republican operatives.

Assuming that David Flanagan and other dittoheads are mainly Republicans, there could be an unintended consequence of the scare mongering. Perhaps some Republican voters will be so scared they will stay at home.

Gore lost....gore still lost...

Yep, gore lost.

Kerry will lose too.

What's missing are the statistics of bank robberies where rubber Presidential masks were worn? Obviously politically motivated.

And then we have the claims in the manly-men of the political corps are being "bullied" by bloggers. Apparently, we've been stealing their lunch money, yanking up their underpants and calling them on their bullshit.

If there are violent crimes going on, then why aren't charges being laid, the rule of law being practiced? And in situations were that has happened, what is the problem?

And then I think of the scene of in "The Ice-Storm" where Christina Ricci wears a Nixon mask while making out, and imagine Flannel-man getting really turned on, and I realize the whole thread is "ick", just "ick".

Flanagan:As one who has two degrees in psychology...

Get back to us when Psychology becomes a science.

"How about surrounding the polls in poor neighborhoods with a strong police force to intimidate folks to stay inside."

Assuming this is even true, which I doubt, why would law-abiding citizens be afraid of the police?

Oh, that's right. The police are drooling, right-wing racists who enjoy attacking people for no good reason. I forgot...

"we are all very prepared if that is not the case."

In other words: There WILL be violence from the Left if Bush wins a second term in a close election!

"Fuck it. Where's my Molotov Cocktail?"

Shark, apparently, will resort to violent street theatre in a few days...

"I fully expected Bush to reach out to Gore, ask him to meet and/or take a position in the administration -- which anyone who had a real interest in the health of the nation would have done -- but NO, they said "Screw it, this is our chance to rape the environment, give to the rich, go to war for oil, and start the Fourth Reich.""

This, friends, is the Left, in a nutshell...

"I'm not looking forward to the violence when the huge Kerry lead starts to sink in."

LOLOLOL!!!

What polls are you reading, HP?

And it's not the Right that riots. It's ALWAYS the Left...

"Kerry will win with a clear, unambiguous margin of at least 6% of the popular vote."

LOLOLOL!!!

Wanna place a bet on that, HP?

A caveat, RJ: unless right wing violence again carries the day.

Or have they got the software in the voting machines set up so they don't need to do that this time?

Anyhow, to get real for a minute (sorry, about that, RJ), the polls are all misleading and off by a much larger amount than the "Margin of Error" they keep telling us about.

What they're not telling us is that the samples on many of the polls are skewed.

The samples contain more Republicans than Democrats. The results thus reflect a more Republican opinion.

Gallup, for example, samples 38-40% Republicans and 33% Democrats.

The voter turnout in last two presidential elections, however, has been exactly the opposite: 39% Democrats, 34-35% Republicans.

RJ: "...Shark, apparently, will resort to violent street theatre in a few days..."

I don't have to lift a finger to destroy the American Experiment; Bush & Co. are doing a fine job without me.

I'll just sit back, watch, and thank gawd I get four more years of fodder for my satire.

PS: RJ, How's IRAQ today?

..is it STILL A FUCKING DISASTER?