SK - Right.

PITRIFF - Right. So you guys came along during what I call the industrial counter movement, in the mid-eighties to mid-nineties, and you operated with Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, the whole Wax Trax crew. Since industrial came on the heels of the original metal movement, do you feel like industrial was kind of the next logical step in the evolution of hard-driving music?

SK - It's a different thing, what we call industrial here in the U.S. as opposed to what we call it back in Europe, you know, that's a kind of definition problem, I guess, but yeah, seeing it that way as you've just explained it, it would be the next logical step. I mean, there's basically nothing that can allow itself to be harder than certain forms of metal and industrial.

PITRIFF - Mmm hmm.

SK - It's definitely the hardest it can get at this point.

PITRIFF - Now, Angst and Nihil and Xtort, those were really big albums for you guys. How would you sum up or summarize this period of time when you had a lot of well-known songs like "Juke Joint Jezebel," "Megalomaniac," "Light," and all that; how would you summarize that moment of time for the band?

SK - It was a time where I felt we made the shittiest music we've ever done.

PITRIFF - Oh, really?

SK - (laughs) I mean, Xtort was a deliberate return to some resemblance of the basics after that sort of mishap with "Juke Joint," and you know, sort of almost mainstream acceptance that we saw for about a year or so. I very consciously decided to make another record that was definitely way more...uncompromised...and, you know, completely straight-up. It had to do at the time with too many cooks, I think, stirring in the pot of pea soup.

PITRIFF - Gotcha.

SK - It was never my thing to make appealing music.

PITRIFF - Right. Well, going back to the original Naïve album, and my German sucks, but "Leibesleid..."

SK - Right, "Leibesleid."

PITRIFF - So many artists followed you, but you sampled the 'O Fortuna' part of Orff's Carmina Burana, probably to best that it's ever been done, I think. You were asked to stop using it because of clearance issues, but I think it's the most powerful mix of that sample, given the trite way other people who followed you misused it. So, do you ever feel any regrets about having to redo it for Naïve/Hell to Go?

SK - Yeah, we should never have redone it. I mean, it was kind of like a courtesy. I happen to know the owner of that copyright and I had no idea that it was his copyright when we used it. But it was like, hey dude, you gotta take this out of action, this can't circulate any longer, otherwise we'll have to slap a lawsuit on you. Unfortunately, we just went in and messed with the track. We should never have done that. That was definitely a regrettable thing.