Blogcritics: Comments on Boycott Wal-Mart

Comment by John L

Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:53:27 EST

Wow. Well done. Anyone using the word "Putative" in a sentence needs commendation. I am sure you spend your nights and weekends out picketing the mall, WM, and all of the local retail stores who typically provide no benefits to their employees, pay minimum wage (unlike WM who pays on average $8-9 plus) and force people to work less than 32 hours so no bene's are required. I see you with your RAPE AND CHILD ABUSES NO MORE sign in front of Walgreens and Baskin Robbins. I also loved your "its about time someone stood up" comment- guess what... all young college educated white people with a nice place to live have picked this soap box as their favorite. Everyone is against Walmart. Its the easy popular argument of the day. Be strong Nancy and look past it. Look back at the teachings of your economics class! Your 'passion' tells me you are oh I would say.. 22? So I ask you Nancy, what specifically would you do to make things better?

Comment by Nancy

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:21:59 EDT

It's about time someone stood up & uttered blasphemy: just because something is "The American Way" does not mean it's right, ethical, or moral, even if it IS legal. A lot that is 'legal' is in violation of every moral, ethical, humanitarian instinct there is. "The American Way" is a bullshit jingoistic phrase that was coined by a pre-Karl Rove flunky during the 1880s to justify the robber barons raping the public as usual. Just as now, it was used to imply that if you didn't agree with their policies or 'right' to plunder & steal at will, then you were un-American, and just as now, it's as transparent as a baggie, a pile of bullshit trotted out by those needing to intimidate & smear opposition to their lies & wholesale theft. The American Way? The classic, beloved behavior defended by this putative "American Way" includes, among other things: slavery, imperialism, monopolies, denying minorities & women basic humanitarian rights, animal abuse, child abuse, rape, lynching, price gouging, profiteering, gutting public assets such as the environment for private profit, strike-breaking (including 1st-degree murder), election fraud, vote fraud, corporate accounting fraud, organized crime, sex worker slavery, drug importing & dealing (and I'm not talking Merck, which is it's own issue), fraudulent as well as deadly pharmaceuticals, years of marketing deadly carcinogens & lying about it to the public & congress, fake or unnecessary (but very profitable) medical procedures, lying under oath, and a host of other hallowed "American" traditions capitalists have engaged in while wrapping themselves in the flag to justify & protect their criminal, vile activities so they could line their pockets & satisfy their insatiable greed, the public be damned. Anyone, anywhere, anytime, who for any reason wraps themselves in patriotism or religion is setting off a signal as loud as the warning of a rattler that they are vipers to beware of. The "American" way is NOT any of the above. The true American way rejects such conniving, thieving, greedy, vile, violent, & selfish practices utterly - else we'd not have laws against them, feebly those these same laws are enforced, especially against the rich & powerful, the capitalists & oligarchs who think they own & do their utter best to act as subvert dictators to the citizens of this country - and others. "The American Way" is a warning, a signal to the rest of us, that anyone spouting it is up to no good, and ought to be shot on sight. As for Capitalism, that's no more than a label trying to bestow honesty & legitimacy on those who like to steal, lie, & do whatever they can get away with, again, to feed their insatiate greed & selfishness. Be damned to them. I sincerely hope & pray that there is a justice that sees every rapacious capitalist's soul frying in eternal hell without mercy or hope thereof for their crimes against humanity. So there.

Comment by Consumer

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:30:15 EDT

Walmart has the best prices? Someone never shopped at Dollar General.

Comment by John L

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:31:35 EDT

Jim- A lot of fancy terms... go get yourself a latte and get out in the sun. Come back and let the rest of us know what you are talking about. Capitalism is a term for an economic system- one in which Wal-mart, I assure you, exists. Of course our country isnt purely capitalistic but lets not go there. Now go get that Latte Jim!

Comment by Jim Carruthers

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:00:39 EDT

John L, and the other apologists for Wal-Mart, at least get your terms straight -- Wal-Mart doesn't engage in capitalism (go on, look it up in an economics textbook). They engage in a very refined version of mercantilism, using info-networks and a version of revolving door indentured labour (about 50 per cent employee turnover every year) and international commodity arbitrage combined with "just in time delivery" to hold up profits, without actually building any capital.

Comment by Jim Carruthers

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:51:46 EDT

There were two articles in the Globe and Mail this week about Wal-Mart (unfortunately the G&M has gone darknet this week, so no linky because they can't play nice with others). The first point was about the possibility they might get a union in Canada despite their best efforts to bust them, though they just might close the store, well, just because. The second is their fear that most of their target shoppers may become too poor to shop at Wal-Mart, since secure people with money don't shop at WM, and at least 20 per cent of WalMart customers are only a single pay cheque from destitution. This is especially ironic in Mexico, where the purported middle class is under great stress with huge loan margins -- credit cards run at unbelievable rates. In NorthAm, the illusion of prosperity has been held up by the illusion of credit. However, deficit financing is not sustainable. Neither is the slash-and-burn mercantilism of corporations like Wal-Mart.

Comment by boomcrashbaby

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:27:55 EDT

I also disagree with the comment on low paid workers and their common theme I was referring to a pbs show that did research on it, and came up with the conclusion that most walmart employees with a family to support live below the poverty line. I think they would have discounted students in that case. I'm not trying to get people to stop shopping at WalMart. Remember my earlier comments in that I favor capitalism. The whole reason I mentioned anything on this thread, is that I do realize when a company grows SO large (i.e. WalMart or Microsoft), then the detriments (correct word?) of that business can begin to outweigh the benefits.

Comment by Shark

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:21:44 EDT

Yall need to do some research. Based on just about every criteria for contributing something constructive to one's society, Wal-Mart is Satan incarnate. Glad to see somebody standing up for the demon's retail chain, though; somebody's gotta do it.

Comment by Dew

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:08:04 EDT

Before Super Wal-Mart came to the area our food tax was 8% and today our food tax is 8%. They may be alotting more of tax subsidies to Wal-Mart but we pay the same high ass (excuse my french) food tax we've been paying for years. John, a muscadine is kinda like a grape in that it has seeds and it's sweet but it is larger than a grape though smaller than a plum. It's consistency is more like that of a plum also. I also disagree with the comment on low paid workers and their common theme. Most Wal-Mart workers, at least here, are students working for extra money and part time employees working for extra money. The unskilled, uneducated make a very low percentage of the workers in the 6 Super Wal Marts throughout ourt metro area. I also think that is a gross stereotype.

Comment by John L

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:44:10 EDT

what the heck is a 'muscadine?'

Comment by John L

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:41:30 EDT

Every major corporation in the world has tax subsidies! If i am bringing my company to your area and that company will bring a lot of jobs (good paying or not) of course i will ask for tax subsidies. A smart state will give them to me and Wal-mart, or any large org, would be foolish not to ask for them!

Comment by boomcrashbaby

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:42:13 EDT

You dont have to go to Walmart to find low paid employees. Simply step over to the mall, your local gas station, 7-11, ice cream outlet.... The common theme being uneducated/unskilled. Agreed, but you aren't touting those as the 'great American success story'. Dew: I'm not sure where you all are located but here in Mississippi Wal-Mart is your best bet for just about anything. All the other stores are at least 75% higher But you are still paying more for shopping at walmart, because so much of your tax dollars goes to 'help' the company. "Subsidy deals were found in 35 states, with the most in California, Illinois, Missouri, Texas and Mississippi." source Perhaps if less people in Mississippi shopped at WalMart, your taxes would go down?

Comment by Dew

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:32:35 EDT

I'm not sure where you all are located but here in Mississippi Wal-Mart is your best bet for just about anything. All the other stores are at least 75% higher and their only edge on Wal-Mart is the wait. Mom ad Pop stores are greatly affected by Wal-Marts in their area. They have to charge more because they have less stock, which means less choice, which means less customers. The only time a Wal-Mart isn't packed is between 3am & 5am because most people are sleep. The bottom line is money, you can walk into any (Super) Wal-Mart any time of the day and get everything you need, from a big screen tv to muscadines and you want people to boycott that? Look at it this way, Wal-Mart is in the midst of the largest civil suit in history. It has every thing, oppression, discrimination, unfair pay, yet their stock has gone up has it not? And you think people will stop shopping there because of some bones under the parking lot? Please! There has to have been some call for them in Mexicoland or they would not go through the trouble of being there. If you build it they will come.

Comment by John L

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:22:48 EDT

Shark- Dont really get your comments but regarding this one- "My guess is that you are one of the few Americans still employed -- but haven't yet seen the implications of the "new economy" on your future" you have me scratching my head. Been through several layoffs myself so I have first hand knowledge of the 'new economy' but in my world the records show 94.2% of America is currently employed. I think that is better than "one of the few americans still employed"

Comment by Shark

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:53:17 EDT

John L.: "Wow. My guess is you are a young guy that had a crappy job with a large corporation and you are pissed at being paid crap while being forced to work hard for your crappy pay." My guess is that you are one of the few Americans still employed -- but haven't yet seen the implications of the "new economy" on your future. Another guess: you're one of the handful of Americans who can't spit out the window and hit a Lowes or Home Depot or Blockbuster or Wal-Mart. But the day is young, so you might check the window later this afternoon. PS: Don't open it, though: I hear the Air Quality alert for today is "Dangerous"

Comment by Shark

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:48:22 EDT

Boycott Wal-Mart? Might as well boycott America. Wal-Mart is the future. Good news: we'll all be working there. Bad news: at those salaries, we won't be able to afford to shop there. Result: Hello Economic Apocalypse! I say shop Wal-Mart -- and as is written in the New American Edition of The Book of Revelation (George W's favorite bedside read) "Bring it on!"

Comment by Eric Olsen

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:21:14 EDT

fixed

Comment by Vic

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:01:46 EDT

You need to close a tag in your post which is causing all the following text to be in that grey, small font you used at the end of your original post. Kinda hard to read grey on grey. :-) Just FYI. Vic

Comment by John L

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:37:56 EDT

You dont have to go to Walmart to find low paid employees. Simply step over to the mall, your local gas station, 7-11, ice cream outlet.... The common theme being uneducated/unskilled. Get those things and you get a better job! Minor personal note. I am a registered democrat.

Comment by Lono

Tue, 14 Sep 2004 02:38:28 EDT

Wow A spirited dialogue has ensued! I wasn't able to watch this unfold because blogcritics is blocked from my web access at work (it thinks its porn). This is what blogging and democracy are all about. I'll just step back and let you two at it! Glad to see someone cares about these issues besides me. Lono

Comment by boomcrashbaby

Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:09:13 EDT

Why would they pay a dime more that they have to? Any company that does that is soon to not be a company. Exactly. Why pay an employee a living wage when you can get the taxpayer to subsidize it for you, increasing your profits. So as President Boom would you set the min. wage higher for Walmart? I'm not sure I have the answer. I just wouldn't go around tooting the 'Wal-Mart is the pinnacle of success' horn, when the majority of it's employees live below the poverty line. I'm not sure what that says about American success. I favor capitalism, but I acknowledge that capitalism needs regulation, which makes me a (shudder) liberal.

Comment by John L

Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:35:58 EDT

Forgot to address the Microsoft issue. Its two different animals because MS owns 95% of desktops on which they control what goes on those desktops. That is an now an unfair monopoly which needs to be regulated. I can shop at Walgreens or many other drug stores. If I want to be in the computing and business world I need to have an MS operating system. Apple and Linux arent fairly competitive to MS's dominance and yes there are some arguments you could make to sheer capitalism but this aint one. Monopolies exist but do need to be regulated.

Comment by John L

Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:28:55 EDT

Valid points however I dont know what you would recommend doing about it? Walmart will pay their employees what the market will bear. Thats exactly what they should pay. They are paying exactly what the market will bear for an unskilled employee. No more or less than an other retailer in a similiar environment. The size they are simply gets them more press about it. Why would they pay a dime more that they have to? Any company that does that is soon to not be a company. Thats poor business practice. If they pay them an inflated wage they are then less competitive which means higher prices, less walmarts and ergo-less jobs. Catch 22. As far as the CD's- Good for them! I have no problem with them having standards. I can go elsewhere to buy a CD with smut if i want. They stopped selling bullets and handguns as well. Once again- good for them. Lastly as far as the big box thing - we all make mistakes. They boldly try new markets and some fail. That leaves a big box. Better to have tried and failed as they say. Cant blame them for not wanted to sell space to a competitor... So as President Boom would you set the min. wage higher for Walmart? You see all the problems that would create right?

Comment by boomcrashbaby

Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:30:35 EDT

It's odd that you can concede that Microsoft strangles capitalism, while Wal Mart is nothing but a glorified success story. What have the two done differently? You think you got your low prices at the checkout? Think again as most Wal Mart employees get paid so little, they qualify for some form of welfare, or governmental benefits and so you (the taxpayer) end up paying them the same as that union guy who you refuse to do business with. Following are the first three paragraphs of a pbs show that pretty well spells out how Wal Mart became a success story: When WalMart comes to town: Wal-Mart employs more people than any other company in the United States outside of the Federal government, yet the majority of its employees with children live below the poverty line. "Buy American" banners are prominently placed throughout its stores; however, the majority of its goods are made outside the U.S. and often in sweatshops. Critics believe that Wal-Mart opens stores to saturate the marketplace and clear out the competition, then closes the stores and leaves them sitting empty. Freedom of speech issues also come into play. Musicians are at the mercy of Wal-Mart's stringent content rules, forcing many to create "sanitized" versions of their albums specifically for the discount chain. The sentiment behind Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton's promise of a "better life for all" belies questionable business practices - many that have been challenged by employees, unions, environmentalists, recording artists and human rights organizations. Forbes magazine, polling business executives (not employees) has ranked Wal-Mart among the best 100 corporations to work for. Yet the employees on average take home pay of under $250 a week. The salary for full-time employees (called "associates") is $6 to $7.50 an hour for 28-40 hours a week, which is typical in the discount retail industry. This pay scale places employees with families below the poverty line, with the majority of employees' children qualifying for free lunch at school. When closely examined, this amounts to a form of corporate welfare, as the taxpayer subsidizes the low salaries. One-third are part-time employees - limited to less than 28 hours of work per week - and are not eligible for benefits. source

Comment by John L

Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:26:52 EDT

Boom- Microsofts hold is a bit of a different animal. Agreed there is a bit of a stranglehold there that is unfair toward fair markets. Lono, who got this started, happens to be my brother fyi. He is a classic case of a guy that hated corporate america, who is the primary basher of WM, who did work for Target and cursed them as they were the hated Corporate evil giant. He now gets his paycheck from another hated corporate giant and shops frequently at his now favorite store- guess who? Target. Funny how life changes. Anyway no hard feelings. Nothing like a good blog disagreement. My first by the way. My employer probably wouldnt be too happy with my misplaced time today :) I will also note that I too dont shop at Walmart because the place is a zoo but still admire what they have done by simply putting the best prices on products available.