527th Day of Rest?
Published August 24, 2004
If, for example, a celebrity came out and expressed unmitigated hatred towards black folks, that celebrity would immediately have trouble finding work, because many people, myself included, would find it difficult to support his or her work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. Nor is there anything wrong with Slimfast dumping Whoopi because she failed to consider that her words might offend many Slimfast customers who would excercise their freedom not to purchase said weight-loss beverage.
Is Whoopi free to wax vulvic about our President's name? Damn right she is, and God bless America for it. Is Mike Moore free to make a manipulative propaganda (and I admit, fairly entertaining) film despite the fact that he doesn't have his facts straight? You bet, as long as there's an audience and a distributor people will even see it. Think they didn't have a political agenda for what they were doing?
I suppose Bush could stop the Swift Vets if he spoke forcefully to them, but, at least as far as the first amendment goes, that seems like a step backwards. The Swifties are raising some questions about Kerry's service record. I don't particularly like the poisonous tone of the ads, or the fact that his quotes in the second commercial are taken a bit out of context. To me, the end doesn't justify the means. I have what I believe are legitimate questions about the way in which John Kerry has "used" his Vietnam record for his political purposes, and I believe that the Kerry campaign has inadequately addressed those questions.
527's are, as Bush suggests, "bad for the system," but, as long as we're going to support the freedom of speech, it's hard to imagine how we can change them that much. They are, after all tax exempt groups that typically pursue and promote political activities. If the speech that any of these groups is slanderous or libelous, I trust that they'll reap the consequences.
Note: It appears as if the Democrats would suffer the most if anything happened to the 527's anyway (which, I suspect is the cause for Bush's use of "all of them"). OpenSecrets has a list of the receipts and expenditures of the biggest 527 groups. The top 7 are all Democratic. Their total receipts: $137,382,640. The first Republican group I see is Club for Growth, a conservative, pro-growth group headed by Steve Moore. Their receipts: $5,288,847. I would have thought the Swift Vets would have appeared here, but for some reason they do not.
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- 527th Day of Rest?
- Published: August 24, 2004
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- Section: Culture
- Writer: Jeremy Chrysler
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I think it's important we focus on who was doing what in a misguided 'police action' 35 years ago.
And it's nice to see the presidential candidates playing a violin duet while fucking Rome burns.
Gotta run -- my unemployment application forms are about to be torched!
Very nice overview of the swift boat ad issue. I've believed from the start that attacking Kerry's service in Viet Nam is a mistake.
Yes, the Swift Boat Vets have the right, but I think what is more productive is to attack Kerry's record AFTER Viet Nam. This is the most fertile field and the most legitimate.
With that said, Kerry/Edwards are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Liberal 527s have, to date, spent well over $50 million dollars for anti-Bush/pro-Kerry ads on TV, Radio, and elsewhere. Conservative 527s have invested approximately $2.5 million dollars.
In addition, the press said virtually NOTHING about the anti-Bush/pro-Kerry ads. But, as soon as an anti-Kerry ad hits and it begins to effect Kerry's ratings, the mainstream press is all over the issue.
The media biased? Naaaaaahhhhh!
David
It seems the voice of 527groups from the right is the voice of a few rich guys. The voice of 527 groups from the left is the voice of millions. No wonder Bush wants to silence 527 groups. Here's a comment I posted on another site the other day that I think is relevant for people here to consider:
The 1 million that was spent on the swiftvets campaign, 20% it (200,000) was given by a single individual. And it is the voice of 250 people. Are they telling the truth? Some may be giving their interpretation of things, others may be playing politics. None of them fought with Kerry though. None of them knows what he is like in battle, and for a military leader that is what counts.
The 60+ million that was used by liberal 527 groups were primarily gathered from the internet in small donations. It is the voice, the will of millions of people.
The voice of 250 people vs. the voice of millions. One thing is for sure. Millions don't lie.
It seems the voice of 527groups from the right is the voice of a few rich guys. The voice of 527 groups from the left is the voice of millions. No wonder Bush wants to silence 527 groups. Here's a comment I posted on another site the other day that I think is relevant for people here to consider:
The 1 million that was spent on the swiftvets campaign, 20% it (200,000) was given by a single individual. And it is the voice of 250 people. Are they telling the truth? Some may be giving their interpretation of things, others may be playing politics. None of them fought with Kerry though. None of them knows what he is like in battle, and for a military leader that is what counts.
The 60+ million that was used by liberal 527 groups were primarily gathered from the internet in small donations. It is the voice, the will of millions of people.
The voice of 250 people vs. the voice of millions. One thing is for sure. Millions don't lie.
Even if those millions come from a few super-rich individuals? You tell a great story boom, but in this case, it doesn't appear to be true. I submit for your perusal the top four donors from the wealthiest 527 anywhere, the Joint Victory Campaign: http://www.spacetownusa.com/SP32-20040824-142143.gif That's a lot of money from 4 people (nearly $20 million). An overwhelming majority of the money in JFV's coffers comes from super rich men and women and corporations. Does Peter Lewis's 7.75 million make him more qualified to vote? No way.
Forget about the Swift Vets for a minute. Kerry has turned himself around here. In a 20 minutes speech before Congress he talked about how his Christmas in Cambodia experience was 'seared...seared' in him. Now his own campaign says he was in Cambodia once in January and near the border on other occasions, and not, taking fire on Christmas in some clandestine special op. It didn't happen. He has told the story at least 8 times in print and it was a complete fabrication.
Does that call into doubt his character? I think so.
Let's forget the Swift Vets again. Kerry's own journal entry 9 days after the combat experience in which he earned his first purple heart, he wrote that he hadn't been fired on yet.
It only takes one Swift Vet to call into doubt Kerry's war stories, and that Swift Vet is Kerry himself.
John Kerry made this bed out of air and a little bit of wood, and he shouldn't be surprised that it's so hard to sleep in.
I can't say enough times that I have absolute respect for anyone who risked his or her life to protect the freedoms this country affords me, John Kerry included. The only reason this is an issue is because John Kerry made it an issue.
Even if those millions come from a few super-rich individuals?
When I said millions there, I wasn't talking about the dollars, I was talking about the memberships of the 527 groups. I don't know how much each individual has given, but millions have signed on. It is the voice of millions. I believe so.
....The only reason this is an issue is because John Kerry made it an issue.
For me personally, it's not an issue. I care more about the economy, the war on terror, civil rights, separation of church and state, who will get to appoint the next Supreme Court Justices, etc.
A lot of people I talk with, don't consider it much of an issue either. We know Bush was a smackhead over 30 years ago, but what's relevant to us is the here and now.
So John Kerry didn't make it an issue, conservatives did, and it's only an issue to them and undecideds who are unsure of what is more important, the ability of a soldier to embellish a war story (IF that is what happened), or the here and now. That's my take on it.
Here's a few of the small contributor's constituting the millions.
As strange trip says:
Here are the contributors for Move On, which has gathered around 9 million and spent (somehow) 17 million:
Soros Fund Management/George Soros
$2,601,000
Progressive Corp/Peter B Lewis
$2,500,000
Shangri-La Entertainment/Steve Bing
$971,777
There are other large donors, and yes, a lot of small donors as well.
Here are the contributors for JVC
Top Contributors
Progressive Corp/Peter B Lewis
$7,750,000
Shangri-La Entertainment/Steve Bing
$6,964,846
Sustainable World Corp/Linda Pritzker
$5,000,000
Soros Fund Management/George Soros
$4,550,000
Retired
$1,613,775
Agvar Chemicals
$1,500,000
Investor
$1,034,550
Lois and Richard Rosenthal Foundation
$1,000,000
Susie Tompkins Buell Foundation
$1,000,000
Investor/Anne Getty Earhart
$1,000,000
Carsey-Werner-Mandabach
$1,000,000
Cullman Foundation/Cullman Ventures
$1,000,000
This Lewis character has given millions and millions and millions.
I know that you were referring to millions of people. I turned that millions into dollars because the dollars from a few is closer to the truth (for both parties).
I received an invitation to a breakfast with Dick Cheney this morning. "Me?" I thought...turns out it was only $250 a plate and $2000 for a picture. "Not me," I confirmed.
Clearly other people think this stuff matters though, as his numbers are falling (even as GWB's aren't that great but are rising slightly). Unless something strange happens, Kerry's peak is behind him, and he'll be holding on for dear life come November.
Boom
To have an opinion is fine and good. But to base your opinions on ad hominem attacks and assumed "facts" is just plain misguided. What you believe isn't what is important here. Facts are important. That's fine if you believe that the voice of millions is represented by a few contributors. You can also believe that the moon is made of green cheese, or you can believe that you aren't contradicting yourself. Exactly according to your previous argument, the 527's are no different on the left or the right. The are all funded by a few rich people and should be abolished.
You might also be interested to go back and read this article about JK's acceptance speech at the DNC.
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/07/30/build/nation/70-kerry-vietnam.inc
Kerry brought up Vietnam. He wanted it to be an issue in his campaign strategy. There is no question about that. Now it's all backfired, and you want to blame the conservatives for it. Of course.
Let's debate real facts.
"Complete fabrication," Jeremy?
A closer look indicates that Kerry really was in Cambodia during Christmas of 1968.
I wish you'd start holding the Swifties to the same level of credibility you hold John Kerry.
"I can't say enough times that I have absolute respect for anyone who risked his or her life to protect the freedoms this country affords me, John Kerry included. The only reason this is an issue is because John Kerry made it an issue."
What a disengenuous load of horse shit.
But it was well-placed there at the end of your constant stream of slurs.
That's fine if you believe that the voice of millions is represented by a few contributors. You can also believe that the moon is made of green cheese, or you can believe that you aren't contradicting yourself.
If I sound like I'm contradicting myself, then I'm not explaining myself accurately, because I see a difference still. Let me see if I can explain why.
The voice of a 527 group is not solely the voice of those who fund it. The same would apply to the swiftvets 527 group. How many people have signed up (registered) at the swiftvets 527 group? (shrugging) I really don't know. 1 million, 25 million, 50 million?
If the number is large, then those citizens are choosing to let the swiftvets speak for them, whether or not those individuals ever open their checkbook. Does that make sense?
I can't explain it better, it makes perfect sense to me.
Perhaps liberal 527 groups are funded by a few. The fact that millions of Americans have created and signed onto hundreds of liberal 527 groups, tells me that those Americans are telling US that those 527 groups speak for them.
I can't go over this anymore. If you can't see it, then it is a viewpoint I will still hold and just concede that you don't see it that way.
Let's debate real facts
I would love to debate facts about issues I care about. The economy, homeland security, Iraq, civil rights, etc. I have said repeatedly I have no interest in the 1960's, so I don't care to spend my time debating that. Perhaps you can find another liberal who cares about the past enough to want to spend time nitpicking over statements made over 30 years ago. Personally, I could care less.
Just bein honest.
Shark, I suppose that does sound disingenuous, but I'm serious.
Rodney, regarding the Slate article, I'm familiar with all of the sources that Kaplan quoted and even wondered myself if Kerry could not have made a trip between Sa Dec and somewhere inside Cambodia. Such a trip, while roughly 110 miles there and back, is conceivable that it could have been made in about 5 hours total. I still find Kaplan's reasoning a specious, because it ignores several key facts.
First of all, to my knowledge, no other Swifties ever report having been ordered into Cambodia. John Kerry is the only one. Other commanders suggest he would have been court martialed for doing so. Do I believe he was close? Of course.
Second of all, there is no record of Swift Boats ever having made such incursions. I know I know, they were 'clandestine' operations and no records exist. That is a convenient response, but there is a lot of data detailing otherwise 'illegal' incursions into Cambodia starting in 1967 and continuing thereafter using other modes of transportation. You can find some data on that here .
Thirdly, when it would have been very easy for the Kerry campaign to just say 'Yes, John Kerry was in Cambodia on Christmas/Christmas Eve of 1968," they chose to be non-specific in their response.
Fourthly, if covert ferry missions had been commissioned into Cambodia, the Swift Boat seems a poor choice. It is, after all, a patrol boat, and a relatively large one at that. It seems logical that a boat more specifically designed for ferrying special ops fighters, like an MSSC or an LSSC.
When I said 'is' a fabrication, I should have said 'likely', as there is no hard evidence which specifically places Kerry in say, Alabama, at the time in question. When I look at all the evidence, it looks to me that Kerry has fabricated the story. There is a big difference, given Kerry's many retellings of the story, between "in" Cambodia and "near" Cambodia.
Btw, sorry for my last comment, I didn't see the hyperlink in your post at first :).
"Gotta run -- my unemployment application forms are about to be torched!"
Get a job, hippie! ;-P
"We know Bush was a smackhead over 30 years ago"
You know this for a fact?
PROVE IT!
"I have said repeatedly I have no interest in the 1960's, so I don't care to spend my time debating that. Perhaps you can find another liberal who cares about the past enough to want to spend time nitpicking over statements made over 30 years ago. Personally, I could care less."
John F. Kerry has made the 1960's an issue. No, he has done more than that. He has made it the centerpiece of his campaign.
And when hundreds of his fellow veterans criticize him publicly, he goes berzerk.
Kerry has spent nearly 20 years in the US Senate. He spent about 20 seconds talking about his tenure in the Senate during his DNC speech.
John F. Kerry is trying to turn his four-month gig in 'Nam into a reason to be elected President. And if someone points out his lies and exagerations, he blames Bush for daring to bring up the past.
What a pathetic, whining pussy.
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Nicely Written. Very good.