"One day he's saying that we were shooting civilians, cutting off their ears, cutting off their heads, throwing away his medals or his ribbons," Dole said.

It's too bad Dole isn't smart enough to not fall for the right wing propanganda. That isn't what Kerry said. He said "They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads,"

His statement is here.

Boy it would be nice if a Republican could get it right for once. (Besides John McCain).

Mr. Kerry, why have you made your four-month stint in 'Nam 35 years ago the centerpiece of your campaign, including even your nominating convention and acceptance speech?

This is obvious as well. Because he wants to prove to America that he has the experience to lead the military. And since the swiftvets have only caused a temporary dip for him in the polls, most Americans seem to get this.

And if you are such a "war hero," Mr. Kerry, then why is it that Bush is kicking your ass in capturing the veterans' vote, according to recent polls?

Veterans have always primarily voted Republican. They seem to like all those military paycuts Bush gives them.

Boom-
Paycuts? I can't find anything about that at www.dfas.mil.

Kerry provided hearsay testimony to atrocities and that is somehow better than if he had testified to his own personal experiences? It seems the net effect is the same, testimony to atrocities is submitted to congress and the public. How does that big lie thingy work, again?

Boom-Paycuts? I can't find anything about that at www.dfas.mil.

It was late, I was typing fast. I should have said "benefits, healthcare, respect and any knowledge of humanity from their Commander in Chief" Following this comment, I will post some articles that veterans should read, even though we all know they will STILL vote for Bush.

Kerry provided hearsay testimony to atrocities and that is somehow better than if he had testified to his own personal experiences?

Actually, what's better is if Kerry AND conservatives quit trying to run on the past and instead focus on the future. I don't care where ANYBODY was on Christmas eve 30 years ago. I don't care which boats got shot at. What I care about is who is going to fix healthcare for hard working families like mine who are stuck in an HMO created nightmare. I care about who is going to fight the war on terror the most effective way possible, I care about separation of church and state and civil rights and the economy. That is why I will be voting for Kerry.

Here is what you won't find at www.dfas.mil, and what veterans care less about than where someone was on Christmas eve 30 years ago:

After criticism from Democrats, the Pentagon announced that current salaries for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan would not be cut, but such efforts may come at the expense of troops serving elsewhere. [Knight-Ridder, 4/5/03; Los Angeles Times, 4/3/03; CQ, 4/16/03; San Francisco Chronicle, 8/14/03; Army Times, 8/13/03; 8/20/03]

Bush Budget Cut Millions From Education Funds For Military Children
Bush's 2004 budget cut $200 million from Impact Aid, a program that helps military children receive a quality education. The military portion of Impact Aid would fall in Bush's budget from $635 to $435 million. Bush tried to cut $3 million from Impact Aid in 2003 as well. [House Appropriations Committee, Minority Staff, 6/17/03, 6/16/03; Washington Post, 6/17/03; Omaha World Herald, 2/5/02; State News Service, 2/4/02]

Bush's Tax Cut For The Wealthy Excluded Military Families
Bush's 2004 tax cut failed to extend a child tax credit to 200,000 low-income military families. Soldiers whose "with taxable incomes below $26,625 are ineligible for the increase in the maximum child tax credit from $600 to $1,000 that was part of a tax bill signed into law in May." Among those whose families are left out of the Bush tax cut are soldiers serving in combat zones. [Washington Post, 6/17/03; Army Times, 8/11/03]

Some Children Of Soldiers In Iraq Rely On Charity
The charity group "Feed the Children" organized food drives for children whose parents were fighting in Iraq. Between December 2002 and April 2003, the group "delivered 600,000 pounds of food and other necessities to more than 6,200 military families at 12 bases." In April, people "lined up for a half-hour near Fort Bragg to get free boxes of supplies and food, from cereal and spaghetti sauce to baby food and potato chips.

Among the needy were some of the 1,200 families living near the Army post and Pope Air Force Base whose breadwinners are off fighting in Iraq." Even in peacetime, many militaries families rely on such efforts, and qualify for food stamps. "Feed the Children is best known for providing food and medical assistance in developing countries. It began aiding families of deployed military during the first Gulf War." [Tulsa World, 4/7/03; Associated Press, 4/9/03]

Pentagon Objected To Extending Full Benefits To Part Time Reservists
A bipartisan Senate push to extend benefits to part time reservists has met stiff resistance by the Bush Administration. In July 2003, "Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld sent a letter to House and Senate leaders stating the Bush Administration's opposition to" legislation that would extend full benefits to part-time military reservists.

A Pentagon memo dated July 26, 2003 revealed that the Bush Administration would veto any Defense appropriation request that included the benefits. The legislation is strongly supported by the National Guard Association, the Adjutants General Association, and Enlisted Association of the National Guard. [Office of Senator Tom Daschle, 7/14/03; Army Times, 8/13/03; http://www.ngaus.org/newsroom/Sec%20523%20Letter.pdf]

Army Investigating Complaints Of Poor Treatment For Iraq Veterans
UPI learned that "hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait -- sometimes for months -- to see doctors. The National Guard and Army Reserve soldiers' living conditions are so substandard, and the medical care so poor, that many of them believe the Army is trying push them out with reduced benefits for their ailments.

One document shown to UPI states that no more doctor appointments are available from Oct. 14 through Nov. 11 -- Veterans Day.... One month after President Bush greeted soldiers at Fort Stewart...as heroes on their return from Iraq, approximately 600 sick or injured members of the Army Reserves and National Guard are warehoused in rows of spare, steamy and dark cement barracks in a sandy field, waiting for doctors to treat their wounds or illnesses."

After the initial UPI reports surfaced, the Army announced it was rushing doctors and funds to Fort Stewart to alleviate the situation. [United Press International, 10/17/03; 10/20/03]

Stars And Stripes Survey Documented Low Troops Morale
The Pentagon-funded soldier newspaper Stars and Stripes found troops serving in Iraq are suffering low morale and possess an unwillingness to re-enlist. "The survey...also recorded about a third of the respondents complaining that their mission lacks clear definition and characterizing the war in Iraq as of little or no value. Fully 40 percent said the jobs they were doing had little or nothing to do with their training.

The findings, drawn from 1,935 questionnaires presented to U.S. service members throughout Iraq, conflict with statements by military commanders and Bush administration officials that portray the deployed troops as high-spirited and generally well-prepared. [Washington Post, 10/16/03]

The "Independent Budget," an analysis of the VA budget provided by veterans groups, has said "The Department of Veterans Affairs health care system is in critical condition." Meanwhile, the Bush administration opposed a Senate addition to the Iraq supplemental bill that would have added $1.3 billion to veterans' health care. [Air Force Magazine, 10/02; http://www.pva.org/independentbudget/pdf/IB_04excsum.pdf; OMB Director Joshua Bolton to Rep. David Obey (D-WI), 10/21/03]

Bush Administration Is Closing Seven Veterans Hospitals
In early August 2003, the Bush administration announced it was closing hospitals in its efforts to "restructure" the Department of Veterans Affairs. The administration is closing hospitals in:

* Canandaigua, N.Y.
* Pittsburgh
* Lexington, Ky.
* Brecksville, Ohio
* Gulfport, Miss.
* Livermore, Calif.
* Waco, Tex.


Joy Ilem, assistant national legislative director for Disabled American Veterans, "questioned the need for closures and other cutbacks. 'Everyone is aware of the difficulty VA has meeting demand,' Ilem said. 'When we have hundreds of thousands of veterans on waiting lists (for medical appointments), we don't want to see facilities closed due to fiscal problems.'" There are currently 163 VA hospitals in the US. [Associated Press, 8/4/03, 10/28/03; Department of Veterans Affairs]

Bush Proposed Doubling Costs Of Prescription Drugs For Veterans
This year Bush proposed increasing prescription drugs costs for veterans. The Bush plan would have included a new $250 enrollment fee and a co pay increase from $7 to $15 for veterans earning over $24,000. On July 21, the House Appropriations Committee agreed to a Democratic amendment to reject the Bush fee increases and recoup the $264 million in costs by reducing administrative funding for the Department of Veterans Affairs. [Reuters, 7/14/03; Washington Post, 7/22/03]

Bush Decided To Cut Benefits For Middle-Income Veterans
On January 16, 2003, the Bush Administration announced it would cut access to health care benefits for 160,000 middle-income veterans due to budget constraints. John Pettyjohn, an Oklahoma veteran who served in Vietnam, said of the cuts, "On one hand, we're sending our sons and daughters out to war and possibly to die, yet on the other hand we're punishing a certain class of veterans who've made money in their lives. The government made a promise to us. What they're doing now is wrong." [Associated Press, 1/16/03; The Daily Oklahoman, 1/18/03]

i was starting to like bob dole. then he makes such a hypocritical comment and it reminds me that he is is a neo-con at heart.

he does have a good sense of humor though.

maybe he should apologize for complaining about that arm. enough already.

jack e. jett

Perhaps Kerry's Spinions will question Dole's military record now?

Maybe they should, considering that's exactly what GWB's Spinions did when his war record was in question.

Or was that not it? Does that mean that Kerry has actually avoided that angle?

Nice work, BCB. This president clearly cares more for missiles than for people.

Boom-
It's interesting that, given all that you mention (which point to systemic problems which have been ongoing back to Carter's administration and beyond, to my knowledge), veterans consider the alternative worse.

Hal-
To be technically correct you should say missile defense.

But Joe my initial statement to RJ stated that veterans always vote republican. Not just on this election with this 'alternative'.

So it's not so muc the option of even considering the alternative as much as it is displaying a group that marches lockstep like lemmings behind the lead lemming and showing the world a clear set partisanship, which people should keep in mind when ANY veteran like the swiftvets opens their claptrap.

Can a lemming actually lead?

And what about the Band of Brothers^TM?

Actually, according to polls, veterans were pretty well split down the middle right after the convention. I think you're making a rather broad generalization.

They follow the lemming in the lead. Do you follow me?

What about the Band of Brothers? I said the group (veterans) marches lockstep. WIth any group there are those who choose to follow the truth rather than what is expected of them.

Actually, according to polls, veterans were pretty well split down the middle right after the convention

Do you have sources?

source:

Veterans prefer Bush as Commander-in-Chief by a 60% to 33% margin. Fifty-four percent (54%) of veterans give the President good or excellent ratings for handling the situation in Iraq. Overall, just 43% of voters give the President such positive ratings on Iraq.

Rasmussen Reports is an independent public opinion research firm that provides daily updates on the Presidential election and the nation's economic confidence.

Wow, Boom. It sure sounds like you have a low opinion of veterans.

No surprise then that you're a Democrat!

I didn't used to RJ. Just tryin to keep up with the times. If you look at all the harm the Pres has done to veterans (comment 3), AND the fact that they don't care, and the fact that it's now the 'in' thing to trash someones service record (swiftvets), AND the fact that Bush won't attend a single funeral for someone who died in HIS war, nor will he allow photographs of the caskets (might make people feel guilty about their SUV), AND the fact that conservatives insist that anybody can get a purple heart with the ease of getting a hallmark card at Walgreens, etc.

Trashing veterans is now the 'in' thing to do! Just carryin on what the Republicans started. And as history has showed us, the vets are quite alright with it.

Sure here.

Hehe, a conservative gives a CBS news poll legitimacy. that's interesting.

Well, that poll does say what you claim. The poll I listed from Rasmussen, a non-partisan company who makes a living taking polls, says the opposite. This just goes to show that you can't trust a poll.

(The only thing that really matters is peoples opinions on the candidates on Nov. 4th).

Cool, the second person to label me today. For the record, I'm pretty much pro-choice accross the board and I supported the war in Iraq. If it makes you feel better to label me conservative, fine.

Actually, back to an earlier point (not to be self-referential, but, well...): Kerry provided hearsay testimony to atrocities and that is somehow better than if he had testified to his own personal experiences? It seems the net effect is the same, testimony to atrocities is submitted to congress and the public.
I would submit that in doing so he trashed the service record of every vet involved in Viet Nam. So it seems more of a reciprocal affection than just blind dislike for the candidate.

Cool, the second person to label me today.

How one labels himself is one thing. The ideology one promotes is another. Some conservatives are pro-choice, some conservatives smoke pot, some conservatives are for same-sex marriages. But judging by the comments you choose to make here, on multiple threads, most people can only come to the conclusion that if it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck.... Be proud of what you are, there is no shame.

No shame, I just think that it's an irrelevant point, just another generalization.

The whole wound comparison game is ludicrous, if you take time to think about it. Kerry's wounds were not as bad as Bob Dole's. Bob Dole's were not as bad as Max Cleland's. Max Cleland's were not as bad as Louis Puller's. None of theirs were as bad as a dead person's. Enough already.

When I was 5 I tripped and fell in our sideyard where the swingset was and landed on a rusty nail sticking up out of the ground. It stuck in my skull, and just then lightning struck the nail, sterilizing the wound and giving me the powers of an electric eel.

This is actually true.

Omigod! A new comic book superhero character! Can you elaborate on your superpowers?

In eel-mode I am cylindrical and slippery and give women a real charge

Va-va-va-vooom!

to say the least!

That's shockingly revolting Eric.

yes, with sufficient time to re-charge, I can re-volt as well

This administration thinks that anybody who disagrees with it is a traitor. How un-American is THAT?

Kerry joined the navy to dodge the draft? Does anybody else see the absurdity in this comment.

To be a republican today is to be dirty, dishonest and desperate. It's the only way to rationalize supporting George Bush, who mocks everything the party once stood for.

Federal gov't shouldn�t interfere in our lives? Tell that to victims of diseases who could benefit from stem-cell research, or gay couples. Champion of the middle class? Are this people blind or just plain stupid? How about a budget deficit that endangers our grandchildren's lives?

And why would anyone support a president who decided to fight the wrong war? What if this champion of the war against terrorism had put ONE-TENTH the resources of the war in Iraq against Al Qaeda?

Republicans should look up the word traitor in the dictionary. Mortgaging our future, to me, endangers this country. Fighting the wrong war, and avoiding going after Al Qaeda endangers this country.

Best definition of a patriot I ever heard is from, of all places, South Africa:

"A patriot is somebody who protects his country from its government."
Evita Bezuidenhout

i really do prefer the funny, dry humor bob dole over the bitter, jaded, erectionless, and mean bob dole.

jack

"Perhaps Kerry's Spinions will question Dole's military record now?"
It's just a flesh wound.

"Honor the Fallen"
www.militarycity.com/valor/honor_alpha_a.html

"Airforce 1st Lt. Tamara Archuleta, 23, of Los Lumas, NM; assigned to the 41st Rescue Squadron, Moody AFB, GA; was killed March 21, 2003, when her HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter crashed in Afghanistan."

Tamara and five other airmen - all of whom believed that actions speak louder than words - were attempting to rescue two injured Afghani children about 150 miles from Kandahar when they crashed. Miss Archuleta, who was the chopper's co-pilot, was enrolled in the master of aeronautical science degree program at Moody Air Force Base. Her uncle, ex-pararescueman Michael Long, eulogized Tamara at her funeral as being a master of karate skills and a "good pilot."

www.pjsinnam.com/War_on_Terror/Komodo_11Archuleta.htm
"Some gave all...all gave some" (VVA slogan)
- MCH, Vietnam era vet