There is no excuse for trashing Kerry the way that he has.

I agree and I have labored to stay out of the debate on Kerry's service in Viet Nam. The fact is, he was in Viet Nam for four months but he's been a member of congress for something like 54 times that amount of time and I don't hear nearly as much about his congressional service as I do about his Viet Nam service.

The other annoying issue of this campaign has been that, when Bill Clinton was running for President, it was perfectly acceptable to not have served, or even to have objected to the war. BUT, once a Democrat with military service runs for President, then it suddenly becomes a "let's compare the sizes of our tallywhacker" exercise.

President Bush served in a very dangerous role, and lost several of his teammates during training because, in that day, flying jets was a very dangerous job (still is). Furthermore, Bush's unit had Cold War related duties in that they patrolled US borders and were responsible for intercepting Soviet aircraft that were sent out to skirt our borders.

And the service that George Bush signed up for requires SIX years of service, as opposed to just two years of service in the other branches of the military. Really, if George W wanted to ride a desk to avoid dangerous service, he probably could have used his father's influence to do exactly that.

The only thing being, however, that George HW Bush was a veteran and a hero of WWII and would likely never have allowed his son to duck service to his company.

Anyway, I honor Senator Kerry for his service in Viet Nam. I honor our President as well for his service to his country.

Thanks,

David

Nice smear, MEM, and nice the way you did it under Raimondo's skirts.

Maybe I'll take some time look up some of the rabid right (very easy to find) and do the same thing.

Kudos.

Dave, re. Bush's National Guard duty--

you forgot to mention that while he served, not one Viet Cong was seen anywhere near Texas or Alabamba.

Not ONE!

Thanks,
Shark

To blog or not to blog...

Hal, (and MEM)

It took me two minutes to find a web site that can prove George W. eats babies and Laura masturbates with a crucifix.

Ahh, these are good times to be in politics, ain't they...

Shark,

You didn't know that about George and Laura? And you a Texan?

What gets me is how these people do the smear then move on and try to pretend they're intellectually honest.

I usually ignore them but this post was just so blatant that I had to say something.

Okay, back to the real world...

I'm sorry, but again I must disagree with just about everyone here.

John Kerry served in Vietnam, sure. And he demanded a purple heart every time he scraped his knee. And he got out as soon as he could.

The ONE time he showed a modicum of bravery, which he talks about endlessly, he was serving on a boat with people who, for the most part, now actively oppose him, and say two of his three purple hearts were awarded for self-inflicted wounds. (See Drudge for more...)

Then he came back to the states, hung out with commies, and defamed his "Band of Brothers" by claiming they were engaged in mindless atrocities. This kind of crap helped lead to peaceniks who spat on returning veterans and called them "baby-killers." And this eventually lead to our having prematurely pulled out and "losing" the war in 'Nam.

Now, John Kerry wants to pretend he's some kind of special hero who would "do a better job" in Iraq. Puh-Lease. First chance he gets, he's gonna turn tail and run. And when it all collapses around him, making the world a much more dangerous place, he'll blame it all on Bush.

Two wars "lost" by the US, and both to be blamed on the same person. Nice. Real fucking nice.

RJ: "...The ONE time he showed a modicum of bravery, which he talks about endlessly, he was serving on a boat with people who, for the most part, now actively oppose him..."

That would be news to the twelve fellow boat-members from Nam who appeared with him on the stage at the convention tonight.

RJ: (See Drudge for more...)

Drudge is not a valid source for anything except smears (unless you're a credulous right-winger). Using him simply lowers credibility.

You turn a flowery phrase here and there ("Nice. Real fucking nice.") but simply ranting about "scraped knees," "self-inflicted wounds" and "hanging out with commies" with no more substantiation than Drudge is more a reflection on the speaker than on the spoken about.

Really.

I think Drudge is generally reliable now. He mostly links to outside stories (but insists he's not a blog) and his "scoops" are limited. His choice of stories is odd. His headline now is the DNC convention chair swearing about the balloons. So what? That's news? In other words, he's credible but not very relevant.

I primarily read Drudge for the odd news. He's following that mysterious animal cited in Maryland. He'll let me know if there's a snakehead fish found in a pond somewhere.

I am interested in the Cheney steps down rumors. So I am familiar with how Drudge reports them and I think it reflects the standing argument around Drudge. How reliable you see that reporting depends on what you're judging. He is correctly reporting the rumors as rumors. The rumors may not be true. If the rumors turn out to be untrue, many will think Drudge was lying.

I think it's news that there are rumors. I think they're trial balloons. I'm glad someone (Drudge) is willing to report them as they bubble up.

Chacun à son goût, Justene.

Watching someone spreading rumors has never been to my taste.

It depends on how it is done. Cheney's stepping down is spreading rumors.

Al D'Amato is asking Cheney to step down, the opposition is discussing whether he will, I think that's important to spread. Here's why:

Government and politics should be as transparent as possible. I want to know what they're talking about. How do you think we learned about Watergate and (choose current scandal of your choice)? Enough leaked that the rest came in a flood.

Now some of the other stuff is crap but I think that's true of any source.

Our favorite young hawk, who refuses to join the military, says:

The ONE time he showed a modicum of bravery, which he talks about endlessly, he was serving on a boat with people who, for the most part, now actively oppose him, and say two of his three purple hearts were awarded for self-inflicted wounds.

Someone who not only was alive but was actually there at the time says:

"I'd be a total fool to ever question John Kerry's heroism -- if not for him, I'd be dead."
Jim Rassmann, Vietnam veteran

I don't think people -- including me -- should question the bravery of someone who served in the armed forces, particularly if s/he volunteered *during a war*.

Al D'Amato is asking Cheney to step down

If it's true, it's not a rumor; if it's false, it's gossip or worse.

Gossip-mongers are not my favorite people.

How would you have viewed the Monica Lewinsky/blue dress? It turned out to be true. I still thought it a rumor and one I wasn't particularly interested in.

I can't recall a time when Drudge has turned out to be false. Once I thought he was but when I reread the story he had phrased it in a way that wasn't. I wish I remember what that was. Now I mostly read him to see the linked stories. I get my news from cnn online and fox offline. That's about as well as I can balance it.

just curious...do people really consider cnn to be as liberal as fox is conservative?

Depends on the people. I will say that I never had an opinion until I was on a cruise ship with only CNN when the troops took Baghdad. I got a newspaper in port and was surprised to learn we had taken Baghdad. Watching CNN, it looked like we were losing the war.

Cheney will never go. I'll bet my thumbs on that.

Why? Because it would mean admitting you made a mistake, which is against Bush's religion.

Our favorite young hawk, who refuses to join the military

This ain't Starship Troopers, babe. I don't need to join the military before I'm given full citizenship rights.

If there was a draft, I'd go. Would you? (They might draft women if they ever reinstitute it.)

Someone who not only was alive but was actually there at the time says:

"I'd be a total fool to ever question John Kerry's heroism -- if not for him, I'd be dead."
Jim Rassmann, Vietnam veteran

Lots of others who served with Kerry dispise him. You know that personal testimonials are considered a logical fallacy, right?

I don't think people -- including me -- should question the bravery of someone who served in the armed forces, particularly if s/he volunteered *during a war*.

He volunteered, sorta. I believe he stood a good chance of being drafted as a mere enlisted man had he not...

Mark S. "just curious...do people really consider cnn to be as liberal as fox is conservative?"

Well, I'll probably get sneered at by all those of liberal persuasion here for opining this, but CNN definitely has a left-wing slant to their reporting. Fox news is not right-wing, they merely give voice to conservatives, while also allowing liberal pundits to speak. That's the difference.

Fox is not right wing?

You might want to check out this report by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, which is a non-partisan organization (they've recently criticised the NYT and NPR, which are often accused of leaning left).

If there was a draft, I'd go. Would you? (They might draft women if they ever reinstitute it.)

I'm too old. But if they do reinstate the draft, which I hope they don't, women should be included.

But I'm not the one belittling someone's military service during a war.

He volunteered, sorta. I believe he stood a good chance of being drafted as a mere enlisted man had he not...

Now volunteering isn't actually volunteering according to you. Serving isn't actually serving (heck, it was only a few months).

Put your body where your mouth is, and then we'll talk about whether or not a few months in a combat zone is serving or not.

All this banter about joining up on a dare is so much crap. Military service is such an unpopular choice amongst the chattering classes, (how many vets on Blogcritics?). You either wanted to do it when you were young enough, or you didn't (apologies to anyone who was not physically able to). It's nothing to be ashamed of, hell, most Americans don't, nor are they expected to. I imagine it did not cross most of your minds to join. I know more than a few Seervicemembers who felt compelled to join after 9/11, if that didn't move you to do it, probably nothing will.

I respect anyone's decision to enlist or not, I don't want draftees watching my back and whining how they are here against their will.

Any of you who are about to spew platitudes about Soldiers being shills for the military-industrial complex, or having economically deprived motives, and all that other tripe, spare me, if you didn't serve, you really don't know what you are talking about.

I'm not talking about joining up on a dare, SKI. I'm talking to someone who continues to belittle another person's service (and *Max Cleland's* war injuries) during an unpopular war when he hasn't face a single gun shot (neither have I).

I'm not sure how you can respect someone's decision not to enlist and then listen to that person continually put down the service of others as not being valuable.

I'm not sure what qualifies as actual military service to RJ anymore.

Fox news is not right-wing, they merely give voice to conservatives, while also allowing liberal pundits to speak

More balderdash.

Colmes? Kondracke? Speak? Yes, speak, Rover, speak.

Even Fox admits they don't balance their coverage, instead say they "provide a balance to all the liberal media" with their wall to wall right-wing pitching.

It's not surprising that pro-war "bloggers" would be defending Kerry's war crimes. Of course there's no mention that Kerry was part of Operation Phoenix, which targeted thousands of Vietnamese peasants for assassination. I also note that you list "Tour of Duty" at the bottom of your screed, which documents everything I have written about Kerry. My column was based on a reading of what Kerry and his "band of brothers" have told his hagiographer, as related by Alex Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair:

"Kerry's boat was heading up the Cua Lon river toward Square bay, when one of the crew yelled "sampan off port bow". Kerry ordered the machineguns to fire on the fishing boat. The sampan stopped and Kerry and his crew boarded it. They found a woman holding an infant, and near her the body of her young child riddled with machine gun bullets, lying face down among bags of rice. Kerry tells Brinkley he refused to look at the dead child, saying, "the face would stay with me for the rest of my life and it was better not to know whether it was a smile or grimace or whether it was a girl or boy". Kerry's preferred mode is the usual one. 'Our orders', he tells Brinkley a few pages later, 'were to destroy all the hooches and sampans we could find.'"

That isn't a war crime? The entire Phoenix program was a war crime. Want more? Ok, here ya go, "bloggers":

"Kerry's first mission as part of the Phoenix program was to ferry a Provincial Reconnaissance Unit of South Vietnamese soldiers, which would have been led by either a Green Beret or CIA officer. After off-loading the unit Kerry hid his Swift boat in a mangrove backwater. Two hours later a red flare told them that the PRU wanted an emergency "extraction". Kerry's boat picked up the PRU team, plus two prisoners. The leader of the PRU team told Kerry that while they were kidnapping the two villagers (one of them a young woman) from their hut, they'd seen four people in a sampan and promptly killed them. The two prisoners were "body-snatched" as part of a regular schedule of such seizures in the victims would be taken to An Thoi for interrogation and torture."

Oh, but that isn't a war crime, now is it, all you laptop bombardiers? Pul-leeeze. It's sickening to have to even explain this.

I won't bother refuting the rest of the smears what's-his-name throws out (up? whatever): it's "anti-semitic" to mention that Israel is building a "Wall of Separation" -- just like it was "anti-German" to bring up the Berlin Wall, eh? But I suppose if you glory in Kerry's war crimes, then Israel is a moral beacon -- in the Bizarro World of "Blog critic".

Yes, I've attacked so many people -- left and right -- that The Blog-critic wants to know "if I have any friends left." Don't worry about that, bud. I don't need mindless ideologues for "friends." And just remember the old saying: "Friend don't let friends commit war crimes." Or something to that effect......

Oh, but this is my favorite part of Senor Manning's screed: "As should be obvious to regular readers of mine...."

Yeah, all 24 of them....

So for this Presidential election, we're faced with deciding between TWO WAR CRIMINALS?

Cool, but I'm for the baby killer who had the balls to actually personally fire the weapon.

A Stronger America

Ye of self-limited options! There will be more than two candidates on the ballot.

Justin R.: "Yeah, all 24 of them...."

Justin, I had 41 entries before I posted this one, not 24 (where'd you get that number?), and though that may not appear very much, (1) I only joined Blogcritics.org after discovering it in March (after blogging for more than three years) on my primary website (in which my "smear" against you also appears, you'll be interested to note) to reach a wider audience, and (2) People are familiar with me here and where I stand. I've been lauded and jeered (depending upon whether one is conservative or liberal) enough by all the regular bloggers on this page - they know me well enough for me to write a statement calling out my "regular readership."

Besides, you're so high-minded, it honestly sounds like something you'd have written after only your first 24 columns on antiwar.com.

[edited]

Shark: "Cool, but I'm for the baby killer who had the balls to actually personally fire the weapon."

This will be sure to floor you, Shark, but I'm with you ... not in that I'm voting for Kerry, but I will stick up for the dude against unjust, punishing accusations, and you're right ... at least Kerry had balls. Raimondo stitches his on every time he writes.

"Honor the Fallen"
www.miltarycity.com/valor/honor_alpha_ahtml

"Army Spc. Tyanna S. Avery-Felder, 22, of Bridgeport, Conn.; assigned to the 296th Brigade Support Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, Ft. Lewis, Wa.; died April 7 in Mosul, Iraq, of injuries sustained April 4 when her convoy vehicle was hit with an improvised explosive device in Balad."

Only one week before Mrs. Avery-Felder was scheduled for leave to visit her family stateside, the truck she was in ran over a makeshift bomb. She passed away three days later from shrapnel injuries.

Tyanna met and married Adrian Felder, another soldier at Ft. Lewis, in 2002. Spc. Avery-Felder had planned for a career working with children and enrolled at Southern Connecticutt State University, but left after one year to enlist in the military, because she felt that actions speak louder than words.

This beautiful, courageous 22-year old woman, who played basketball and sang in the Bridgeport High choir, is survived by her parents Ray and Ilene Avery, two siblings and her husband Adrian.

www.cbsnews.com/elements/2003/03/22/iraq/whoswho545277_0_47_person.shtml
"All gave some...some gave all" (VVA slogan)
- MCH, Vietnam era vet

Re comment #18;
"If there was a draft, I'd go. Would you? (They might draft women if they ever reinstitute it.)"
- by R.J. (Bobby) Elliott

Two things, Bobby...
1) As a bellicose advocate of the pre-emptive attack on Iraq and bellicose supporter of the subsequent occupation, why would it take being drafted before you'd go? Why not put your money where your mouth is and enlist?

and 2) Since I've never read anywhere where bhw has said she supported the invasion, how does being drafted apply to her?

- MCH, Vietnam era vet