Pac had hundreds of vocals done before his death. It is believed Suge Knight was robbing him blind and he had planned to jump ship by putting out album after album to satisfy his contract. That could quite possibly be true if we look at the fact that He dropped All Eyes on me and Makaveli within months of each other.

Despite his reasons the albums still do fairly well almost eight years later. Tupac is quite frankly the Hip Hop era's Elvis.

Tupac's crap was all the same boring, tuneless schtick. They could slice and dice his previously released records, and slap a couple of extra instrumental parts together and no one would know the difference.

The guy was not selling music in the first place, but rather his sensitive thug poetry schtick. Now they're selling his cheesy death cult- which is apparently and even more effective sales pitch.

They can put out albums of Tupac farting or the sounds of him being punked in prison, it doesn't matter. Idiots will plunk down money. "Wow, what a GENIUS!"

Did I mention that Tupac never made even ONE real, worthwhile, memorable SONG? Ever. Alive or dead.

Suge Knight or somebody should, perhaps, get some kind of marketing award for convincing fools to part with tens of millions of dollars for this nothingness.

Sorry you see it that way, Al. Was he a martyr that was assasinated? No, he was a rapper who was murdered. But the irrevocable fact is that he touched many younguns' and yes that does say something.

Tupac was not the thug 'mainstream' America saw him as. He was however an enigma that was able to touch a part of the populus that felt they would not be heard. That is a feat in itself. He said the things to 'authority figures' that they wished they could have, in person and in rhyme.

So I have to agree with you on that one Al. His words are being listened too. And some of his more political songs actually have pretty damn good points.

Pac was definitely a hypocrite, there is no denying that, but aren't we all in one way or another? Yet he was very open and candid about his contradictions. He also went so far as to say his goal is to reach thugs on their terms and in that I would most definitely say he succeeded and he paid the price...

Beloved Dew, my main issue with Tupac is simply that he lacked merit as an artist. He was supposed to be a musician, a composer and performer. Yet where were his classic songs? What standard did he write that has been covered again and again?

I would ignore the rest of this if he had any SONGS. There's pretty much zero actual root artistic accomplishment, though- just pure personality schtick.

Michael Jackson, for example, is obviously a mess- but by gummie he wrote "Billie Jean" and "Bad." No matter what else you might say about him, he's a highly accomplished composer, vocalist, record producer and dancer.

Then there's Tupac. Did I mention that he didn't have any real songs?

Am I missing something?

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the difference of opinion for what makes a great artist. My dear Al Bargie (congrats on the Senate nod, by the way) 99% of hip hop is personality.

I do see your point and it is valid but I'm looking at an overall picture of person, persona and impact. I see you are looking at artistic measure and without a doubt if Composing makes great artistry, no Hip Hopper of past would ever be eligible. They are all mass-produced. Even my beloved Jay-Z.

(Scratching head.) A 'populus' is a genus of tree or a glycoside. What does that have to do with Tupac Shakur? (Re: Comment 3.)

Ahh, the Diva, life just wouldn't be the same without you. "Populous"

Dew, it is truly a pleasure to see you around Blogcritics again. Things have changed a bit in your absence, and I think you'll find a more pleasant environment overall. Welcome back!

wanna define "real song"?

it's gotta have melody?

structure?

these are the only ways to judge music?

Miss Dew, I don't know what hip-hop or rappers would qualify as "great artists." There aren't any that are in a league as musicians or composers with, say, Miles Davis or Duke Ellington.

On the other hand, there are some who have conjured up some outstanding songs here and there. Leaving sociology and politics aside, Fear of a Black Planet is one kick ass album, along with some smattering of Public Enemy's other work.

Thinking on this comment, I've had to pull up some "Mama Said Knock You Out." I wouldn't trade that one SONG for all of Tupac- heck, I wouldn't trade the opening bebop trumpet from "Goin' Back to Cali" for all of Tupac.

Props must of course be offered to the Beastie Boys.

Also, I believe I rated "Hot in Herre" as a Top 10 record of 2002, but a couple years on, I might have to absolutely list it as official Al Record of the Year. That's still rockin' good 1,000 plays later.

Ah, but I'd also give a big thumbs up to Sex Packets by the Digital Underground- so that's getting close to Tupac.

And to finish up this short roll call, the Geto Boys recorded at least two classics. "Damn, It Feels Good to Be a Gangsta" goes into a loop for an hour at a time on a regular basis.

I couldn't stand to do that with their main classic, however, cause "Mind Playin' Tricks on Me" would have me ready to jump out a window in a paranoid fit before that.

wanna define "real song"?

it's gotta have melody?

structure?

these are the only ways to judge music?


I learned about atonal music once. Real music theory and all. Hate it. I vote for melody and structure being the only ways to judge music.

I second Justene. Melody, rhythm, and harmony - those are the basic elements of MUSIC.

Again what makes music great is the way it touches a single person. It one song somewhere made by a single kid on his Dr. Boss that sounds like crap to the rest of the of us but to him its gold and for that he becomes a great artist. BUT thats my opinion.

I don't like Miles Davis and I can barely sit through Duke Elligton because to me their music sounds monotonous. I have played the trumpet proficiently since I was 12 and I loved playing the more modern melodic 'urban' tunes compared to just Jazzy Jump riffs as we call them.

Does that discredit Miles or Duke, of course not, thats only one saps opinion. Then again as said over and over what makes a great artist to me does not constitute the same for you all. I can appreciate that as well as your consideration for the artist and structure you mention above but I still disagree.

As I mentioned in this post I look for the music that means something to me. Music I can feel, identify with and lose myself in for however brief. I really don't care how it was made or composed other than to appreciate the producer be it the artist or someone else.

pac is a genius, AL your a schitic stick knife, you keep listning to your asain or polish music and keep elvis alive and oh yeas make sure you keep borrowing music from the library and oh yes may as well purchase a dictionary and a thesaurus cuz you have no idea what pAC IS ABOUT HOLLA VANCOUVER g SUPPORT UNIT

i want to know iz amaru record looking for any artis im from n.y. n i need a deal so holla at me if so

[edited]

at the end of the day, check out the books which were found in tupac's house which were covered in penciled comments by him as he read and dissected books on various subjects before you insult him. What makes it even more meaningful is that i only ever heard him mention about 3 books in the list in interviews. Most the dumb rappers out nowadays would be pumping it into the marketing industry if they read even one decent non fiction book.

Its pure arrogance to dismiss anyone or anything unless you study it thoroughly 1st, be it 2pac, string theory, super gravity, a theosophical theory etc.

clue up AL

correction, in tupac versus, a dvd with an interview with tupac in jail, he mentioned he read "the art of war" by sun tzu. So in 8months he read only 1 book? rubbish, dude just didnt wanna brag bout reading so much literature in his spare time.

the bottom line is pac songs are about wat affects quite a lot of us whether u are white black or whateve and thats lackin nowadays you want the bs thats being thrown at our age these days without any other track to try and innoculate us from such dangers of unacceptable endorsed stupidity from rappers or today excepe for Nas recently Kanye west

SOME PEOPLE LIKE RAP SOME PEOPLE LIKE JAZZ SOME PEOPLE LIKE OPERA AND COUNTRY. SOME PEOPLE DONT EVEN CONSIDER RAP NOT TO BE A TYPE OF MUSIC AND EVEN TRYED TO HAVE IT BANNED,BUT IM JUST GLAD ITS HERE.LOOK,IM GLAD NOT EVERYBODY LIKES THE SAME THINGS COS THEN EVERYBODY WOULD BE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE AND WHAT A BORING WORLD IT WOULD BE. I FOR ONE LIKE TUPACS MUSIC, BUT HEY...THATS JUST ME!

Go to hell u fukin nerds ya'll fukin wankstas. Ya'll never stabb somebody. Ya'll neva got shot at. Ya'll bitches.

Greatest rapper of alltime
TUPAC AMARU SHAKUR
Rest in Peace

I have read all your comments including the backbiting ones done by Al and his backers.

Tupac has all the qualities to be compared to other great musicians and performers like Elvis, Michael Jackson and the rest. What makes music? Not just dancing and the instruments alone.

If the lyrical content and composing skill is something to be reckoned with or one of the part of music, then Michael Jackson should be behind Tupac in terms of rating.

What am I saying? What has this top musicians got that Tupac didnt get? They top the billboards, 2pac did. They got singles that topped the billboard 200, 2pac got singles like 'How do you want it' and the like that topped the charts. His albums topped the chart. He got historical and touching tracks like Dear Mama, Keep Ya Head up and so. He sold the most albums during his time.

If you dont know, Dear Mama is number 5 in the rating of best hiphop singles. What else do you want to know, Al and co?

Ask me

Long Live the King of Hiphop
Tupac Amaru Shakur
Dead or Alive, your casket is a castle in our hearts. Rest in Bliss

After reading through the whole of this conversation I see all points of view.
At the end of the day we all have opinions. If you can't say anything good about the accomplishments Tupac had then don't say anything.
He was a thug and decided to do something about it and get into the music industry. Like 95% of all rap artists. They are born into a world where they are seen as scum by police and other white members of the comunity.
In the days of when Tupac was young black people were not seen as members of the comunity only something that should be removed from this planet. This is what Tupac tried to emphasise in his songs. He tried to tell the world what life in his shoes and shoes of people like him was like. He was only speaking his mind and even then he did it in a decent way.
I play "Changes" and i have never had any one say..what song is that? everyone always sings along. Even when i was in the pub the other day, a live bloke was singing the original song that Tupac covered and i could see people singing the lyrics to Tupacs song.
So there is a memorable song by Tupac Al. California Love is another song and is always a club favourite or an album compilation favourite and so many people recognise this song and the artist so dont say there is not one memorable song.
If you don't like his music then say nothing and don't try and argue your point of your dislike.

Thats all I have to say on this matter

First of all for all you haters stop hatin.Tupac was and is still the best rapper.if you actually listened to his lyrics you would understand.he didn't write about stuff he never did everthing he rapped about was a tru life situation.And if you look at his albums you would see they were number 1or at least a good number.

R.I.P Pac king of rap

Tupac was truly great indeed. What was great about Tupac was his voice, his ability to inspire people, and his intelligent lyrics.
Now, closed minded long haired people like Al Barger who look for "standards" in rap are missing the point. That would be pretty freaking wack for a rapper to have a standard. Each rapper's songs are great because, yes, of their personality - rap is personal, and no one else is going to take someone's rap and use it as a standard because it is desrespectful. To the rapper and to themselves. Looping samples? Fine. What does that tell you, al? Raoppers dont care about music - those are the DJs and producers.
Moreover, our culture does not look for the same thing you look for. I would take a hip hop beat with 0 count them 0 chord progressions over stairway anyday, dude. Its a different mindset, an entirely different school of thought seeking varies aesthetics from your kind of music.
Then you look at Tupac's lyrics, he said things like "my every move is a calculated step to bring me closer to embracing early death" and "bury me smiling, with gs in my pocket, have a party at my funeral let every rapper rock it. Let the hoes that I used to know from way befoe' kiss me from my head to my toes. Give me a paper and pen so i can write about my life of sin, a couple bottles of gin in case I dont get in."
These lyrics are deeply talented, and not only could you not come up with something as good, but you could not record these as well as Tupac did. No one can. That is why Tupac was great.
You see, it is not that he talks about death and uses the words hoe bitch, or n.i.g.g.a. (never ignorant getting goals accomplished zealously - or how about THUGLIFE - The hate you gave little infants fucks everyone) it is how he uses them. It is what he says.
Tupac created a source of strength and a mindset for people who might have had more hopeless lives than you do, and he did it through his lyrics. If you dont understand that (at square 1) there is no way you could appreciate Tupac.

Mike

you guys are a bunch of haters. TUPAC will be the best rapper / hip hop artist in this world. You guys are hating because you don't have a life and Pac will always be around whether he's dead or alive. Keep on hating haters. I love you pac rest in peace love

does the "will be" statement relate to some kind of Hindu reincarnation belief system or just the creative use of tense?

Where shall I start? maybe at my judging music not by harmony or rythm but by the sensation it produces in me. After all music is the translation of a musicians feelings, whether it be through the lyrics of a song or the instrumentals. As to Tupac, I do consider him the greatest rapper that will ever exist, not particularly for a musical talent that fits into a certain mould that I consider to be high quality. Or either the fact that he represented a certain movement. it's because of his lyrics, the way he expresses himself, the depth of his message. Fair enough he may not have as much musical talent as "michael Jackson", who has created a number of musical masterpieces. But when I have been at my lowest, I haven't played billie jean over and over again just to help my depression, it has been tupac's changes, or brenda's got a baby, or hail mary, god bless the dead etc. My opinion is probably usless against someone like Al who's pure interest is to fit music between musical guidelines of what's good and what's not, but hopefully someone will agree with me.

oi how can u say owt like that bout 2pac Al barger his musics quality so dunt dis im! Tupac Shakur R.I.P

"Populace" is the word you were looking for back there, Dew.

As for the rest of this conversation, is there really any point to caring what anyone else thinks about the music you like?

Just listen to your Tupac and don't worry so much about Al Barger or anybody else "dissing" him. They have a right to do that, just as much as you have a right to play the music you enjoy.

Peace out, yo.

Tupac was a great rapper he rapped about his life and death now i dont know where some of you are coming from dissing a great guy and he had pleanty of songs that people reconise that are his like hit em up, life goes on, hail mary, california love, thugs mansion and pleanty more before you dis him think about all the people that loved him for who he was like his mother and family and his loyal fans... R.I.P Tupac your a legend and your an idol for pleanty of people out there including me we all miss you

Say how are you brothers and sisters doing Iwould just like to say that Tupac should have set his goals on heaven instead of money.

Say Whats the deal again bros an sistas Slim Shady Needs to get saved and focus on Jesus to Afeni to its to late for Pac and I say this cuz of what I know from the Bible and PAC PROBABLY KNEW THIS TO THAT HIS DESTINY WAS HELL HE SAYS IT IN HIS OWN SONG SO TRY AND SEE WHAT YOUR CREATOR WANT YOU TO DO CUZ YOU SEE WITH TUPAC LIFE IS SHORT DO WHAT YOUR FATHER WANTS YOU TO DO.

Dissing a great guy? He wasn't exactly MLK...

hello, ladies and gentlemen.
Tupac Shakur isn't dead. I've been tudying Tupac for 5 Years...i have done 6 asessment tasks, i have looked at newspaper articles, opinions, video clips, listened to songs...i know for fact that he aint dead...it all comes back to the 7 day theory...makavelli..meaning to ressurect from the dead..pfft.. hes out there somewhere..living it up..away from all the troubles in life..yes maybe suge knight was ripping him blind...but hey..who cares...aslong as tupac was doing what he loved most...he loved his family friends and songs...and no there isnt any chance of him coming back...because...why would he fake his death and come back again...he'd only get shot up for real this time...so who would want him dead fa real...hes alive thats all that counts...so all you's that wanna know more...like the autopsy photos and all the rest...well theyre all fake...as if they would let the autopsys out if he was really dead...look...ive studied this shit i know its fake...tupac shakur...may you live in peace...and Afeni Shakur...your an amazing person...may god be with the rest of the shakur familie...remember, to keep yourself alive, there is nothing more important than that...may god bless hip hop..and hardcore rap..long live all poets..of the rap society..peace out... ( if you have any comments or anything at all please, email me at my email address..)

Al you fucken idiot white moterfucka, why dont you give em your address and we will sort you out and your whole family can get some you punk fukwit!
Fuck you, fuck your mum and fuck yuor whole family.
Al Barger your a fucken dickhead who doesnt deserve to live, who has little brain capacity and when i find red-neck racist motherfuckaz like yourself ima air you all out Biatch.
If your game enough why dont you organise to meet me, you can bring your whole crew and ill bring mine.
I'LL PUT AN END to your boring, tuneless schtick life, U Motherfucking kiddi fiddla!

Al Barger your a fucken idiot, if you wanna talk that shit why dont you organise for us to meet up and ill teach you a lesson about one-on-one motherfucking shit talking, brain-dead, fuckwit, son of a hoar, lil faggot!
Lets see what happens when a shit talking egotistic homosexual gets his shit pushed in, ending his same boring, tuneless schtick life.
I wanna meet you lil punk fuck, shit-fer-brains, Red-neck racist white motherfucka, see how you fare against some real motherfuckaz!
Your views can die along with the rest of rich-boy red-necks!
You wanna get a piece come and talk that shit to some real motherfucking G's.
Dont wimp behind your computer you fucking internet faggot.
Tupac R.I.P. and let a punk fuck die a thousand deaths!

Al Barger your a fucken idiot, if you wanna talk that shit why dont you organise for us to meet up and ill teach you a lesson about one-on-one motherfucking shit talking, brain-dead, fuckwit, son of a hoar, lil faggot!
Lets see what happens when a shit talking egotistic homosexual gets his shit pushed in, ending his same boring, tuneless schtick life.
I wanna meet you lil punk fuck, shit-fer-brains, Red-neck racist white motherfucka, see how you fare against some real motherfuckaz!
Your views can die along with the rest of rich-boy red-necks!
You wanna get a piece come and talk that shit to some real motherfucking G's.
Dont wimp behind your computer you fucking internet faggot.
Tupac R.I.P. and let a punk fuck die a thousand deaths!

Anyone who murders Al barger will be doing the world a favour.
we need less worthless scum like this in the world.
the man that opens his mouth and does not comprehend what he is devulging into deserves to burn along with all the other un-educated trash that dies daily!
I think that you might have been rapped by your dad at an early age, that would explain a fucken twat like yourself, so Chippa in your face, buck your family and let em do slow, Biaaatch

Al Barger give me your address, post it up on this website if you have enough courage to do so.
come-on mr red-neck coppa, I bet your a cop or some government official.
Dotn hide behind your P.C., give us your address i want to meet you face-to-face motherfucka

any body who don't like tupac can suck my dick

we see this over and over again... now they let inmates use the computer. go back into your cell .....little shit

evry 1 as diff views as 2pAc said " ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ME " NufF SaId pEaCe oUt sOmErSet

I say fuck the fuckers that hate on 2pac and fuck the fuckers that killed him. He was the greatest, is the greatest, and will remain the greatest. he wasnt JUST a rapper, but a poet, a leader, a VOICE that inspired a lot of people, and its something u dont see in TV, people like Jay-Z or 50 Cent.

Yo do yall think tupac iz deal o alive?

i think hes alive somewhere but he aint gon come back as a rapper he wants to live a normal life.

Man, what's all this Tupac ain't this and Tupac ain't that bullshit. We all know that all of his songs were masterpieces. This guy was not normal, he was born with a gift, a gift to enlighten every young gun out there. In only 25 years, he went worldwide. I could just imagine where he'd be now if he was still alive. Anyway, those who are anti-2pac are notthing but ignorant fools. "Let The Truth Be Known."

Responding to the first comments by this AL character, I must say this: You are measuring the quality of an artist in the wrong way. It is not how many 'big hits' or grammys or whatever award or merit a big time artist can recieve but more or less the impact that individuals art had on others. Jimi Hendrix for example had how many hits??? Lets see... 1. Yet his music shaped an era and defied a generation. Eat that ja-kass.

Tupac is a legend and they should stop screwing arund with his voice. go to alleyezonme.com and have a look at the article its important to any tupac fan

In response to some of the earlier statements which claim that 2pac had NO classic tunes by which to remember him by...look at songs like "changes", "Hit em up", "california love", "keep ya head up", the list goes on and on. I am always surprised and dissapointed to hear that people did not know of 2pac before eminem's interference and I only hope that those people will look back to the REAL 2pac albums. If you want to get into 2pac's real music, buy the "greatest hits" album and go from there, you won't be dissapointed.

I urge everyone NOT to pay for the recent comercialized "2pac" albums that are coming out all the time such as "loyal to the game" and "the way he wanted it" - Let me tell you, it most definately IS NOT the way he wanted it.

Tupac woz the greatest rapper ever you can not deny that and what people forget is that he died so young. People who don't listen to tupac dis him, you need to listen to his lyrics to understand. Tupac and Biggie died so young (If they are dead!!!) so they never got to show us there full potential in rap and people don't realise that there career was only just beginning in rap!!!!!!!!

Pac is real!!!

fuck all yall who diss 'Pac and 2 my real souljas stay strong and stay ballin'...... know wut i mean

First off, any punk cump slump cock sucker who hasent evn heard the Legends lyrics yet and yet still has enough balls 2 diss Tupac can Fucking Die A Million Deaths. and not that easy diyin shit im talkin fuckin painfull death. Feel the pain and the nightmares that huanted Tupac's life since the day he was born. Brother u aint dead, yaknow fuck that u livin it up now just like u wanted.

Yo Mother fuckers if Pac were alive would you be able to look him in the eyes and say you hate him..Mother fuckers dont fuck with a dead man that took 9 bullets to take him down

all of u who hate tupac r whyte mothafuckaz ritte??
nigga tupac iz da besttt of all tyme not lyke da fack ass eminem dat gay ass whyte bytchhe also wanted to be called da whyte niggaheh wat a fuckin fake assbt i have 2 ADMIT that he got SUM good musiknd he also mimikz 2pac