Blogcritics Comments on Essence revisits the Down Low

Comment by KIND on Essence revisits the Down Low

Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:55:50 EST

Comment by PEACEMAKER on Essence revisits the Down Low

Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:52:43 EST

I have read the comments that are posted in this blog and I am sad to see the racism and hatred written all over the comments. I am not siding with anyone but I believe that it is possible to have a normal discussion without going to extreme and having to use vulgarity and profanity especially insulting God in the process. I am part of the minority as well. I am an Asian female who believes in God. I also believe and follow the Sabbath as well as the eating habits according to the Bible. I know that there is hatred between straight people and gay, bi-sexual men and women. I know people on both sides and the best thing to do is not to judge either one. I know it is hard to stop thinking about the unfairness and the criticism that is going on within both parties but we do not have the right to condemn or judge each other. God is the only one who have the right to do so and He will judge us accordingly on the judgement day. If we want people to listen and to see our point of views, we should be adult enough to engage in a normal discussion where people can respect you, regardless of the insulting words you receive. While I don't think that being gay or being on the down low is something you're born with, I cannot condemn it either because it is not my right. I am only human and the best thing is to do what I can to live my life accordingly and to help and serve as an example to others, and it would be nice if everyone else would do the same. God Bless You All!

Comment by PROELF on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:25:04 EST

Do you want to blame homosexuals or voodoo baby rape for the spread of aids in africa? Homosexuality has always said to have been foreign to africa, there is not one aids study that points to homosexuality in africa as the major cause for AIDS. To our clearly religious researchers its blasphemy to even think it, they throw it out as a possible source to remain PC, what with black men having a more "manly" muscular body and bigger dick lauded by filthy American TV and pop culture, only the weak white man is supposed to be gay. Sites like godhatesfags.com share this thought. Evangelists believe only whites go to hell, cause only whites are gay. But now I find that people with "manly muscular bodies" are the real gays. Truth about god, the semitic god hates the white race, and should be rejected by any thinking white. Anyway, the Down Low craze is the greatest thing to ever happen! So much for my short skinny pale self always being recognized as just "Some betch possy azz faghgot cracka!" during high school and college and everywhere else. So much for so called "wiggers" emulating their heroes. Seems, while I am a skinny nerd, I am the only one who "kept it real" yeah "I bez keepin it real" with my anus. I am a real man. Not some muscular, supposedly "big dicked" jock who hangs out at the greyhound bus terminal bathroom every tuesday for unknown reasons. Mother Nature is ruining the cultural revolution and I'm loving every minute of it and look forward to what's next. W. Bush won't be able to stop her. GO MOTHER NATURE! RUIN YAHVEHs SHIT!

Comment by boomcrashbaby on Essence revisits the Down Low

Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:55:59 EDT

oh, and JR's response (#37) is golden. When someone you know for a long time comes out to you, you will subconsciously look for mannerisms, vocal inflections, etc. that you weren't looking for before.

Comment by boomcrashbaby on Essence revisits the Down Low

Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:52:35 EDT

Mac Diva, 99% of the time I'd say behavior doesn't change. I've known one or two to go through a transformation upon coming out and it was temporary and was for the reason I said before. But you are right, 99% of the time, there is no change. Also, another example of femininity not being related to orientation; the majority of transsexuals are straight men. They want to become women, they feel very feminine, but they are still attracted to women. For me, the only thing that changed when I came out, was that I now act/react the same as people around me. Before, if I was around a bunch of guys who couldn't stop talking about female body parts, or whatever, I would always be silent, smiling and nodding, etc. Now, I'll be the same. (When in Rome...) which is why sometimes on this site when people make sexual innuendos, jokes or blogs about sex, etc. everybody's feelin good and having a good time, then I'll chime in with my own comments, which always grinds the conversation to a screeching halt as people freak out. Hehe. But the difference with me being out of the closet now, is that their comfort level is THEIR problem now, not mine.

Comment by Mac Diva on Essence revisits the Down Low

Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:57:41 EDT

Maybe it is because I haven't read the thread over from the top, but I don't understand the claims that gay men's behavior, in the sense of mannerisms, changes when they come out of the closet. I haven't observed that. Seems to me that men who are effeminate (not all gay men by a long shot) are like that whether they are in or out of the closet. Beats me where that viewpoint is coming from. I haven't checked on the thread, which I knew might be controversial, as much as I normally would because I've been busy. The weather is very bleak for much of the year out here in the Pacific Northwest. So, we really get out and party in the summer.

Comment by boomcrashbaby on Essence revisits the Down Low

Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:42:15 EDT

In most cases, it's temporary. It's a release of expression that has been built up over a lifetime of supression. It's almost an overcompensation a lot of the time. A pressure valve. And it doesn't affect everybody. I came out of the closet years ago and people still assume I am straight. Self-expression affects us all differently. One of the most common mistakes people can make is assuming that the level of femininity a man has is directly related to his sexual orientation. Gender identification is not always directly related to sexual orientation. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to have married guys doing the 'down low' without their wives suspecting. There are gay cowboys in the midwest who are as masculine as the Marlboro Man, there are masculine gay policemen, gay firefighters, gay athletes in major sports like football, soccer, etc. and unless they directly tell you they are gay, the assumption is that they are straight and only the easily identifiable feminine guy is gay. It's a common mistake people make.

Comment by Justene on Essence revisits the Down Low

Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:08:52 EDT

It's the same phenomena that causes many women, upon getting married, to stop wearing makeup and start gaining weight. It means nothing in terms of right/wrong of the selection of lifestyle.

Comment by JR on Essence revisits the Down Low

Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:03:09 EDT

Why is it when you guys come "out of the closet" your voice changes, most begin to walk in a manner that is less than masculine and your entire body language makes a 180 degree turn? Because you see what you expect to see.

Comment by Joan on Essence revisits the Down Low

Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:40:05 EDT

By bcb: "To disagree, on religious principle, with who I have fallen in love with, does not make someone a bigot. Throwing out personal insults, gross exaggerations, misinformation, and stereotypical comments like 'ferries', does." I have a question. When I was in high school and college I new several guys who turned out to be gay. The whole time that I knew them they talked, walked and acted like any normal male. Why is it when you guys come "out of the closet" your voice changes, most begin to walk in a manner that is less than masculine and your entire body language makes a 180 degree turn?

Comment by Joan on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sun, 4 Jul 2004 17:05:32 EDT

Sorry my real e-mail is joanie_law@mailworks.org not (.com)

Comment by boomcrashbaby on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sun, 4 Jul 2004 11:28:30 EDT

Sorry, forgot a backslash. This is easier to read: You seem to use the words bigotry, minority and equality freely. You are a insult to every real minority. And you can't seem to stop turning this thread from a discussion on the down-low, to a personal attack of someone you don't even know. Would you honestly tell an African American female that you should be in the same catagory as her? You can't catagorize a lifestyle as a minority. I'm not catagorizing a lifestyle as a minority. My lifestyle is raising a two-year old daughter, working out of the home, and making meals, doing laundry, etc. That's MY lifestyle and I think it falls in the majority. I don't catagorize a lifestyle as a minority. Just because people have a religous and moral beleif that is not in line with homosexualality doesn't make them a bigot. To disagree, on religious principle, with who I have fallen in love with, does not make someone a bigot. Throwing out personal insults, gross exaggerations, misinformation, and stereotypical comments like 'ferries', does. If God, nature or whatever you beleive meant for same sexes to have and raise kids together there would have been an alternate way for homosexuals to reproduce. There is an alternate way for homosexuals to reproduce. There's also an alternate way to get around the poor eyesight that God gives us, there's also an alternate way to fly, to get around the fact that God hasn't given us wings. It is obvious that men having anal sex has only reproduced HIV. Tell all of your equality and minority stories to a black female who is raiseing two kids and is living in poverty while her hubby is out doin the "DOWN LOW". This is what I was talking about, and why I originally spoke out. This thread is about African American men who cheat on their spouses, and you have turned it into a biblical condemnation of all gay people, including those who might be monogamous or celibate or even single and free to do what they want. You are condemning all gay people, with half the reasoning coming from your religious beliefs and the other half of the reason coming from the activities of married African American men. Next you will want government assistance citing anti-gay discrimination from a potential employer. News flash! Not so fast. I have strong and deep moral beleifs and would never hire someone who engaged in activity opposite my values Depending on where you are, you may be able to engage in discrimination legally. However, you don't even know if someone who would apply for a job with you has taken a vow before God to be celibate, do you? So your not hiring of them isn't based on 'engaged activity', and you are actually not hiring them based on who they are as a person. In most states, that is discrimination, although it's still legal in some states. Perhaps you should start a blog about the evils of gay people and leave this one to the commentary of those bisexuals who marry women and then cheat on them? It's hard to respect the beliefs of someone who quotes God and the Bible as their reasoning for condemning gay people, when the Bible says that women wearing makeup, people working on the Sabbath, eating shellfish, men talking to women while they are on their period, etc. are all sins. Someone who quotes the Bible and God as their reasoning for condemning gay people conveniently pick and choose parts of the Bible that they wish to believe in and disregard others. I believe in God actually, and I believe on Judgement Day, I will be judged for the sin of love, and other people will be judged for the sins of selective discrimination, persecution and casting the first stone....

Comment by boomcrashbaby on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sun, 4 Jul 2004 11:26:59 EDT

You seem to use the words bigotry, minority and equality freely. You are a insult to every real minority. And you can't seem to stop turning this thread from a discussion on the down-low, to a personal attack of someone you don't even know. Would you honestly tell an African American female that you should be in the same catagory as her? You can't catagorize a lifestyle as a minority. I'm not catagorizing a lifestyle as a minority. My lifestyle is raising a two-year old daughter, working out of the home, and making meals, doing laundry, etc. That's MY lifestyle and I think it falls in the majority. I don't catagorize a lifestyle as a minority. Just because people have a religous and moral beleif that is not in line with homosexualality doesn't make them a bigot. To disagree, on religious principle, with who I have fallen in love with, does not make someone a bigot. Throwing out personal insults, gross exaggerations, misinformation, and stereotypical comments like 'ferries', does. If God, nature or whatever you beleive meant for same sexes to have and raise kids together there would have been an alternate way for homosexuals to reproduce. There is an alternate way for homosexuals to reproduce. There's also an alternate way to get around the poor eyesight that God gives us, there's also an alternate way to fly, to get around the fact that God hasn't given us wings. It is obvious that men having anal sex has only reproduced HIV. Tell all of your equality and minority stories to a black female who is raiseing two kids and is living in poverty while her hubby is out doin the "DOWN LOW". This is what I was talking about, and why I originally spoke out. This thread is about African American men who cheat on their spouses, and you have turned it into a biblical condemnation of all gay people, including those who might be monogamous or celibate or even single and free to do what they want. You are condemning all gay people, with half the reasoning coming from your religious beliefs and the other half of the reason coming from the activities of married African American men. Next you will want government assistance citing anti-gay discrimination from a potential employer. News flash! Not so fast. I have strong and deep moral beleifs and would never hire someone who engaged in activity opposite my values Depending on where you are, you may be able to engage in discrimination legally. However, you don't even know if someone who would apply for a job with you has taken a vow before God to be celibate, do you? So your not hiring of them isn't based on 'engaged activity', and you are actually not hiring them based on who they are as a person. In most states, that is discrimination, although it's still legal in some states. Perhaps you should start a blog about the evils of gay people and leave this one to the commentary of those bisexuals who marry women and then cheat on them? It's hard to respect the beliefs of someone who quotes God and the Bible as their reasoning for condemning gay people, when the Bible says that women wearing makeup, people working on the Sabbath, eating shellfish, men talking to women while they are on their period, etc. are all sins. Someone who quotes the Bible and God as their reasoning for condemning gay people conveniently pick and choose parts of the Bible that they wish to believe in and disregard others. I believe in God actually, and I believe on Judgement Day, I will be judged for the sin of love, and other people will be judged for the sins of selective discrimination, persecution and casting the first stone....

Comment by Joanie on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sun, 4 Jul 2004 10:45:21 EDT
You seem to use the words bigotry, minority and equality freely. You are a insult to every real minority. Would you honestly tell an African American female that you should be in the same catagory as her? You can't catagorize a lifestyle as a minority. Just because people have a religous and moral beleif that is not in line with homosexualality doesn't make them a bigot. Quit whinning. If God, nature or whatever you beleive meant for same sexes to have and raise kids together there would have been an alternate way for homosexuals to reproduce. It is obvious that men having anal sex has only reproduced HIV. Tell all of your equality and minority stories to a black female who is raiseing two kids and is living in poverty while her hubby is out doin the "DOWN LOW". Next you will want government assistance citing anti-gay discrimination from a potential employer. News flash! Not so fast. I have strong and deep moral beleifs and would never hire someone who engaged in activity opposite my values.

Comment by boomcrashbaby on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:28:34 EDT
BCB: why are you so pissed at the comments that the lawyer chick made. I'm not pissed at all, Joseph. Just pointing out overgeneralizations. Maybe she is just as opposed to all of the gay bs that is starting to waste more and more taxpayer dollars in the legal system. Damn equality. Why can't it be free? What is to prevent a "bi-sex" trio from wanting the right to a three way marriage. And so the story goes. Give some people constitutional rights and then everybody will want them. So the story goes. There were a bunch of ferries tooting there flaming little horns in a busy intersection today. Sqeeking like a bunch of pigs, gay ones. I was correcting her overgeneralizations because then totally irrelevant comments that are nothing more than condescending attacks on minority groups come out of the woodwork by people who naively reveal their bigotry. Did it ever occur to you that the majority of Americans don't give a shit. Yes, Joseph. But I don't give a shit that the majority of Americans don't give a shit. Equality is not handed out by popular opinion. It's handed out by the Constitution and other government documents. The reason I say this is because there was some kind of poll taken that showed behind their backs that more than sixty percent of the straight friends still called gays faggots and almost eighty percent opposed gay marriage? When the Court ordered desegration in the school system, it wasn't exactly popular then either. I'm not looking to be invited to your house for dinner, I'm looking for equality from my government. That still entitles you to think whatever you want of me. I'm not pissed at Joanie or you, I'm just speaking out against bigotry and stupid hateful comments like yours, that have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Comment by Joseph on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:42:35 EDT
BCB: why are you so pissed at the comments that the lawyer chick made. Do you think it is possible that she's seen a lot especially working in legal aid? Maybe she is just as opposed to all of the gay bs that is starting to waste more and more taxpayer dollars in the legal system. What is to prevent a "bi-sex" trio from wanting the right to a three way marriage. And so the story goes. Speaking of which. There were a bunch of ferries tooting there flaming little horns in a busy intersection today. Sqeeking like a bunch of pigs, gay ones. "Call your senator and tell him not to put the word discrimination in to the constitution" they yelled. To beat it all they were trotting around looking as gay as gay can get. I now know where the term "flaming" gets it's meaning. "Heeey! Call that silly senator and tell him to get me some rights or I'm gonna smack him in the face"! Did it ever occur to you that the majority of Americans don't give a shit. Even your so called straight friends. The reason I say this is because there was some kind of poll taken that showed behind their backs that more than sixty percent of the straight friends still called gays faggots and almost eighty percent opposed gay marriage???

Comment by Justene on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:21:59 EDT
Any comments that cause concern can be emailed to me at justenea@yahoo.com. Consistent editing started 6/30. I am unlikely to have seen an attack before that. I may have missed something since then.

Comment by Dan on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:06:11 EDT
Don't feel bad Shark, I post possibly the most cogent comment of this entire thread that respectfully answers the central question of the thread, and I receive a personal attack that isn't deleted. Not that I'm all that put off by it. I just marvel at the selective inconsistency.

Comment by Shark on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 14:33:37 EDT
Joe, you are frighteningly astute! The "Black" plague remark will obviously be a reason for yet another ____ from that ____ _____. (I'll self-edit from here on out, thankyouverymuch...) What's with the [personal attack deleted]? I don't think I launched a "personal attack" in Comment 21. Seems the designation is being stretched to the limits. And what the hell does "[reposting of previous edited comment deleted]" mean?? Oh well, at least someone in America is doing their job.

Comment by Joe on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:07:11 EDT
Shark- If you must single out a plague of color, Poe's Red Death would certainly have some interesting ramifications.

Comment by boomcrashbaby on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 09:58:07 EDT
Shark, it's quite possible that any virus or cold is Mother Nature's attempt at population control, but I don't see how mankind has any way to prove that, so I'm not sure how it can ever go beyond a theory. That reminds me of when my daughter was first born, I was on a gay message board, being all silly and passing out the cyber cigars, etc. when I was surprised to find that more than a few gay people on that board thought that homosexuality was Nature's attempt at population control! I got all upset at the thought initially and that board got very heated for days, until now it's like *shrugging* whatever. Nobody ever knows the reasons why we are born the way we are, and if it's for population control, well then we have a function in nature after all, so that should be more reason to cease the discrimination. That's at least how I feel about it now. Joanie, while I agree with you that illicit sexual activity is a serious means by which HIV is spread, it is your tone, implications and doublespeak with which I am taking issue with. Some examples: In one case the lady was pregnant and passed it on to her unborn daughter, neither of which deserved it. Nobody, including a person who is unfaithful to his wedding vows, deserves the horrible decay of AIDS. There is no excuse for these men to be secretly sowing there AIDS infected seeds in another mans ass, and then passing it on to their wives. Inflammatory sentence condemning homosexual activity rather than adultery which is the real issue. If these men slept with women, rather than other men, would Essence have run a report on it? Probably not since that kind of adultery has been going on since man and woman first got together. Next I guess gay marriage (if it happens) will make it okay to butt bang your "Queen" without a condom. Insulting, derogatory comment that has nothing to do with the down-low. In fact, if gay marriage were allowed, perhaps more of these closeted men would marry men instead of women, decreasing instances of the down low! And if you think any man, gay OR straight, needs a notarized certificate from the government to determine whether it is okay or not to use a condom, then you do not comprehend the male thinking process! And finally, before you go condeming the recognition of a legally recognized MONOGAMOUS relationship as tantamount to the spreading of AIDS and the destruction of society, you and a great many others who speak like you should know that a GREAT percentage of gay men do NOT even engage in anal sex at all! Whenever I read a comment like that, I feel like it is the same situation where an African American reads a comment condemning the entire minority group because SOME engage in the down-low! It's wrong, it harms an entire group of people and it is not on the right track to finding a solution to the problem.

Comment by Joanie on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:22:44 EDT
About #19 Shark: I am sorry [personal attack deleted] that it bothers you that I left one letter off of a word. I don't spell check or proof read the stuff that I post on message boards. If everyone was perfect there would be no use for microsoft word that millions use everyday. [personal attack deleted] What does that have to do with the "down low" subject anyway? Do you guys approach this blog site in a serious manner [personal attack deleted]

Comment by Shark on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 06:39:50 EDT
Perhaps I should explain myself further -- for those interested in something beyond a debate that degenerates (as always) into simplistic categorization/polarization using terms like 'racist' and 'homophobe'. My view of this global pandemic (AIDS) is from The Big Picture; the self-preservative actions of an entire planet. Overpopulation, overcrowding, overtaxed resources, abuse of the environment, etc. always have self-limiting results. ie. the health and population of prey controls the numerical size, health, and population of the predators, and vice versa. The Black Plague occurred in overcrowded European towns where hygiene was neglected; rats accompanied overcrowding and urban decay, and they multiplied thanks to the increase in the population's discarded trash -- followed by an increase in the population of infested fleas, followed by a drastic decrease in the initial cause: human beings. That's the way our Cosmic Mommy works. Thanks to her Natural Laws, she doesn't put up with any shit that's going to eliminate her completely. She's patient, but not too sympathetic. Humankind is a social animal, but an animal all the same. Our personal and collective actions have personal and collective consequences. Our society is still a component of nature, still functions according to 'some' natural laws, and that's why I say that 'survival of the fittest' might still apply. But in a human culture, "fittest" might not mean 'fit' in a strictly biological sense, (although I think they are entwined), but also in a cultural sense. H.G. Wells wrote: "Civilization is a race between Education and Disaster." The "uneducated" obviously suffer a great handicap in today's world, whether facing housing, employment, or the possibility of acquiring and dying from AIDS. Education might also be expanded to include "moral education" -- which apparently married bisexuals practicing illicit infidelity are sadly lacking. Education might also be a contributing factor in economic status; not always [as in my case :) ], but obviously, most of the time. So a rich guy like Magic Johnson, despite being a philandering fool, has access to first-class health care and the expensive drugs required to reduce the damaging effects of HIV. He's surviving fine. The American poor have less chances. And the destitute in Africa have virtually none. So I'm not talking about "white males" in nature's hierarchy of the 'fittest', but about well-to-do educated people in society's human hierarchy. They are the fittest -- in almost every sense: ie. education and economics directly contribute to overall health, survivability, and future outlook for their progeny. (BTW: starvation in Africa, ie. poor nutrition in pregnant mothers + poor nutrition in early childhood, is creating whole populations of the virtually mentally handicapped.) Furthermore: If some of the black bisexuals practicing "down-low" had Boomcrashbaby's Intelligence and Moral Values, they probably wouldn't be infected with HIV -- and infecting others. PS: I think we have more to worry about from an upcoming pandemic (influenza, 1918 style?) caused by overpopulation -- as opposed to the threat posed by international Islamic terrorists. We'll see.

Comment by Shark on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:13:03 EDT
MacDiva: "...I don't think the higher rates of HIV infection and death from AIDS among blacks, Hispanics and homosexuals are evidence of survival of the most *fit..." Yah, you're right. Magic Johnson seems to be on his deathbed. *"fit" is a relative word these days.

Comment by Shark on Essence revisits the Down Low

Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:10:11 EDT
MacDiva, as always. I write three funny, yet profound rhetorical questions meant to stimulate original thought: "...I wonder if there's such a thing as Darwinian Population Control? Mother Nature's Cease & Desist Notice? Are pandemics the new "Pill" for an over-taxed hostess planet?" ---[personal attack deleted] and she turns it into a [reposting of previous edited comment deleted] feh. Nothing new.

Blogcritics Comments on Essence revisits the Down Low

Comment by KIND on Essence revisits the Down Low

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