Hahaha, i totally agree. Terrible terrible jam band with nothing original to offer the musical world.

I am glad you agree. I am bracing myself for the hatemail to start soon based on this post.

Dear Brown;

What are some good jam bands?

Triniman.

Phish . . . tried 'em, got bored of 'em real quick. Can't say I'll miss them. I'm actually always surprised to see that they even bother releasing albums - many of their fans don't seem to actually buy them, preferring instead to live off of the five billion lives shows floating around.

But hey, maybe Les Claypool will get back to making Primus rock again.

Good jam band? Try the Allman Brothers, for one!

I saw first mention of this over on the Ween forums (Brown Boognish is probably familiar, if he's not, he is encouraged to head over and enjoy the comraderie of other Ween nuts) where they asked the question, "What will the wooks do?" "Wooks" being their not-so-affectionate term for the hippie-types seen trailing bands like Phish. Indeed - what will they do? Likely they'll latch onto the coattails of another band, but who will it be? We're all just dying to know . . . or maybe not.

wow, just what is it about bands like Phish that gets people so puffed up?

don't like it? don't listen.

Mark are you telling me it isn't fun to make fun of hippies? Or are you a Phish fan?

first off, allow me to clarify this: every single Primus song sounds exactly alike. Same with Phish. However, Trey is one of the best guitarist in the buiness right now. Now he can challenge himself with decent music and sober listeners.

dunno craig, i've never maid fun of one.

i'm a fan of earlier Phish. the first cd i ever got was "A Picture of Nectar"...which to this day i think is a very cool record.

never been to a show.

Once I heard the horribleness of "Never Get out of This Maze," my hatred boiled over and has been consistent ever since. I find their music really boring.

If Trey is one of the best guitarists in the business (which I would say he is) then what of Les Claypool Lono?

I must agree here with Craig L. I think
Phish are horrible. I don't get the jam-
band genre and these guys are at least
partly responsible for the "phenomenon".
Which makes them twice suspect in my
book.

No amount of substances,illicit or not,
could make this listenable.I don't like
The Dead either. About the best that can
be said of Phish is that they give all
of the faux hippies something to do.

Phish is so bad they make you appreciate the Dead.

yea...you guys are a laugh riot.

i'd type more but i've gotta go refill my patchouli aromatherapy burner.

Craig- No fair besmirching the good name of Cheech and Chong by associating them with this outfit.

Phish makes me think of the passage from the New Testament, "Would that thou were hot or cold, but because you are lukewarm I will spew thee out of my mouth."

Triniman, there are lots of bands that might be deemed "jam" bands that have songs, and something to say. War comes to mind. The classic live album from Chicago RULES, particularly the climactic 20+ minutes of "Get Down."

I've never listened to much Phish, and what I have heard doesn't strike me in any way memorable. I still have a great amount of respect for their abilities to inspire people to celebrate the joys of music and comradery.

Strange that hippies are still laughed or scorned at. I suppose that's the bad karma you get for preaching a little love and peace.

I agree with Tom, the Allman Band is a good jam band.
Another one: Television.

Pissed off? Nah. People are entitled to their opinions. And those who make fun of hippies and peace-and-love types only speak volumes about themselves.

Long live Phish.

listening to "A Picture of Nectar" at this very moment...sorry, but there's just a ton of cool music on this: rock, jazz, bluegrass, funk.

oh well, guess i'm just a tofu-licking treehugger at heart.

Peace, baby. Tofu-licking treehuggers deserve love too. I prefer to actually ingest soybean curd though; fuels the engine for hugging trees.

Most jam bands suck. I'd say Wilco is the closest thing to a good jam band and they are only a jam band 1/4 of the time.

Most jam bands suck. I'd say Wilco is the closest thing to a good jam band and they are only a jam band 1/4 of the time. Ween's live shows have jam band qualities, but they also write great songs. Jam bands are usually bad because they spend little time on songwriting,instead wasting time on repetitive and unoriginal instrumental pieces.

While I can definitely understand that Phish does not appeal to everyone and that many have valid reasons for why they don't like the bands music, i must clarify a few things. I am obviously a Long time Phish fan, but understand where many of you come from. However, the stigmata of Phish fans being burntout, low-life, leaches that call themselves hippies is not cool. Yes, there are many people on Phish tour that are fried-out and actually leach off of the scene which they pretend to support. Yes, it can be very fun to make fun of the trendy hippy crap that is truly cheesiy in many ways. But, the fact is that there are many, many fans, the majority in fact, that are there for the music. I am one of them. I am not a "hippy", nor do me or my friends dress like or pretend to be hippies. Are goal is not to get fucked up, stagger in the parking lot and hit the show completely wasted. We go to be together as friends and experience what we consider to be our friend band, abnd to also use these experiences as positive influences in our daily lives. I grew up on prog rock and jazz, have been playing guitar and piano since I was 11, and am now a proffessional musican with a music degree. I sm not trying to say that my word is final and anybody is wrong in their opinion of the music. My point is that when you call "Phish fans" burnouts, or stoned out morons, you're talking shit about aot of people who don't fit that profile. For many of us, this is our favorite band that we've followed together for years and now it's suddenly ending. That sucks no matter what your favorite band is. Again, I have no beef with anybody's musical opinion,. Please respect the fans are truly in it for the spirit of the music.

I would also like to add to my last comment that this ends something that could have benefited everyone. If anyone watched Trey on Charlie Rose, think about what Rose said about the band's situation. They were the largest commercial touring act that controlled everything. They toured when and where they wanted, released albums uder there own creative control, and basically ruled there own organization. The ending of this is a great blow to younger, independent musicians within the music industry. It will be a long hard, road before another band / organization can become as largely recognized with major label backing while still remaining complete creative and organizational control. Phish's organization could've done so much for younger band's in the future. Sucks that it's gone.

Thanks Mike, I do appreciate where you are coming from, and like the Momart fire that destroyed work unpopular with many, the loss of a band that people care about, regardless of my personal musical opinion, is something to mourn, at least in passing. There ARE considerations that go beyond the purely artistic when talking about popular culture.

I wouldn't have picked the Grateful Dead as one of the ten most important rock bands in history if it wasn't for their rather amazing contributions to the economic, sociological and pan-musical aspects of the culture. And, when they were great, they were great.

Another thing I am absolutely astonished to find is that so many people don't realize that different kinds of music is used for different things, and that one can value different strengths for different reasons. Just because a jam band like Phish (and so many others) aren't particularly strong on songwriting doesn't mean they aren't important for other reasons. The jam bands have helped revive the importance and irreducability of the live performance, the particularity of a given show at a given place with a given audience. And they have also made improvisation cool outside of a purely jazz setting, which expands the horizons of many listeners and benefits jazz as well.

Let us all extract our craniums from our rather narrow lower intestines and look around ourselves anew, realizing that the blooming of the 1000 flowers in a boon to us all.

It's scary isn't it? A group of people could get along and not go on about bullshit all day long. Those bastards must pay

I diagree completley with what u say. Phish is probably one of the greatest jam bands in history. It is also wrong to stereyotype phish listeners as a bunch of drug using hippies. i do agree that they have very simalr songs, but then what jam bands dont have song that sound alike. However, u can choose to form any oppinion u like, but as for me i feel it is a great tragedy that this great band is breaking up,and a huge loss to the music society.

Hopefully Trey will not be working with Les Claypool anymore either. I saw Oysterhead live with a major Phish fan and even he had to agree that Trey was the worst performer on stage and even sang worse than Les! I generally don't like jam bands and I can't stand the Dead but I will say that early on Phish did some things that caught my interest a little. That has not continued though and they are smart to end it at this point before becoming completely redundant. I do agree with Mike's point that losing them as a touring act that could influence younger acts to shape their careers similarly, will be the biggest blow caused from their retirement. Hopefully their business sense will outlast their music legacy!

Grasshopper:

I'm coming in late here, but I will just say this: are you not well? Do you think you are the class clown here? I believe that may be the case.

Music is about a lot of things, Grasshopper, not just your limited understanding of it. Most musicians don't give a crap if you like our music or not. We do it because it's what we are here to do. My taste in music spans decades, genres, techniques, but there are some that I haven't yet learned to appreciate. Beatles, phish, Bach, Miles Davis, Neil Young, Peter Gabriel, Nirvana, all have something to offer us - and the list goes on and on and on. The only music I dislike is music that is imitative, irrelevant or corporate crap.

Grasshopper, how has phish damaged you to the point where you feel it necessary to be mean to other people? Just because I don't love Primus doesn't mean that I feel it's necessary to bash them or their fans. I am respectful to them because they are people, just like me. I can usually find something to like about someone's music. But then, I actually try to understand the music on a musical level, as opposed to the mere fashion or scene of it. As a musician, I personally appreciate the level of musical interplay that happens when great musicians actually play their instruments and take a melody or groove to a new place. In fact, I would argue that that is the absolute point of music. I'm sorry, but Wilco, Primus - not doing it for me in that department. But they do write pretty pop songs.

Our lesson ends here, Grasshopper. Someday you will be a big Grasshopper. I just know it!

Primus sucks!

Phish takes it to a new place alright. It's too bad it is absolutely nowhere that I choose to be. It is miles and miles and miles from where I want to be. And it TAKES SO FRIGGIN LONG TO GET THERE!

And don't call me grasshopper you condescending bastard.

I don't really consider myself a "tofu-licking treehugger," but I'm a fan of Phish's music and ice cream. If Ben & Jerry's eliminates "Phish Food" I will cry for weeks, maybe months.

And I've never seen Phish live, so I actually like them just from the CDs, purchased and traded.

"And don't call me grasshopper you condescending bastard."

With all due respect Grasshopper, you set the precedent for hostility and condescent with your initial post. I am not a huge Phish fan anymore, but i do own a few of their albums and I have seen them live a several times. I can certainly understand why they are so loved and why Rolling Stone magazine (knowledgeable and intelligent critics) called them "The Most Important Band of the 90's". Putting personal tastes aside (as real critics do), you have to acknowledge the influence and importance of Phish on the music world, especially in the last 10 years. Whether it is the way they circumvented the heavy hand of corporate labels and providing hope to the underdogs... or bringing musical integrity and real musicianship back into the popular music scene, losing Phish is a great loss for all music lovers. After all, the idea of Phish and what it stood for was always just as, if not more important and influential than the songs they churned out on albums. That can't be ignored or undermind (hehe) by conjuring up overused (and mostly innaccurate) stereotypes about their fans.

Blah blah blah. I know. I recognize their significance. I still hate them. Yes critics have to put stuff like personal taste to the side to an extent, but what is the fun in reading an article about something where there is no passion involved. In this case, my passion is for hating Phish and the caravan culture of their fans.

Does anyone else love that "Chris B" actually gave Primus the ultimate compliment, ie Primus sucks! Dude, you don't even know that that is the Primus mantra.

"In this case, my passion is for hating Phish and the caravan culture of their fans."

Oh Sooooo... in which case you are not really a critic, or at least not a very good one. Rather you are just a spiteful and ignorant man with nothing better to do but complain. I see. Thanks for clarifying :)

I am a critic. You are a critic. Some people think I am a good critic. Some people hate me. Whatever. By the way, this wasn't a review or anything. This was me commenting on a news item. It was meant to be funny. Some people thought it was funny. You didn't. Oh well. There is no common ground to be reached in this matter. I realize Phish are influential and to an extent important. Doesn't mean I have to like them.

craig, just curious....do you also hate stuff like jazz with extended improvisations, or event freely or collectively improvised music?

(this is not a trick question, honest)

I don't hate it all. I find a good bit of it quite boring though. maybe in certain moods. Honestly, and this isn't a punchline, I think Phish is easier to listen to and enjoy if you do drugs.

i guess what i'm getting at is that the music itself really has nothing to do with the scene around it.

I don't like the music or the scene in Phish's case. I know what you mean though. I love the Dave Matthews Band, but I hate the frat boys and scream-along people that go to his shows. As a result, I buy the discs and skip all their shows.

Mark knows I like a lot of free/improvised jazz, but I find the improvisation in Phish to be, for the most part, boring and repetitive. I just don't think these guys have the chops to pull of what jazzers regularly do with such ease and fluidity. I just hear the band comping around the same basic theme, or they go all "free form jazz odyssey" where Trey uses lots of spacey effects.

I can't say their music is horrible, to be honest, just so bland that it doesn't have much of an effect on me.

I am writing to you as a commenter who does not regularly listen to phish even though they may have songs that are similar i still strongly believe that they are extremely great musicians of course some of there songs sound similar because each person has one style of playing music and that is trey's style of playing music even though it is almost the same song it is still a very good song you need to truly listen to realize that they are infact true muscicians and are very talented at what they do and cannot critize the people that listen to them that would be like stereo typing people who listen to berry manalow as being old middle aged balding guys and lonely desperate fifty year old women.

you need to back the fuck off of phish and let them keep doing what they are doing cause they bring alot of happiness to each person that listens to them.

I am writing this as a man who loves phish. I am just gonna tell ya man they are fuckin great. so just lay off um man. But make any opinion u want.but that opinion is wrong. they ae great and always will be. LONG LIVE PHISH!!!!!!

YOU ALL NEED TO COOL OUT REALLY BAD WHO CARES! YOU LIKE WHAT YOU LIKE AND YOUR OPINION IS YOURS SO KEEP IT TO YOUR DAMN SELF.

PATRICK, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU NEED TO COOL OUT REALLY BAD YOURSELF!

"Caps Lock," kids, learn it, use it, love it.

Keeping it to my damn self isn't really the point.

Anyone see Phish on Letterman last night? I was just switching between Letterman and Leno who had Avril Levine playing. I was not inspired by either artist's performance.

plg

I like Phish. I like 'em I like 'em I like 'em. No blog critic will ever dissuade me. go phish go.

the fact that you dislike phish does not bother me, however, the fact that you chose to stereotype phish fans as stoned out hippies who would rather make hemp all day instead of writing hateful music reviews or whatever you believe normal people like you choose to do DOES bother me. (that was probably a run on setence..hmm) i am a 15 year old prep school girl who does not fit your typical phish fan stereotype, however i still believe them to be the greatest band ever. phish appeals to a whole group of people, not just patchouli making rain dancing hippies (not that there is a thing wrong with those people).so maybe next time you should think twice before you decide to give phish fans, or anyone, a label.

cheers to phish, the greatest band of all time

Phish and the grateful dead fucking rule
its about the music.....Phish is sweet is your striaght or fucked up
viva la phish

Phish is not a jam band.

Worst band ever.

i like Phish

ive never smoked weed

or been to one of their concerts

yet i have like 15 of their albums

and i love them

some of you need to understand that just cuz u don't like a band doesn't make them bad, i mean heck, some ppl like rap, for some reason it appeals to them, music being "good" is an opinion

Phish IS the greatset band ever, and you all can kiss off! You don't know shit about shit, and pull up your pants. assholes

Wow. Phish rocks. They actualy know how to play their instruments unlike most of today's punk music. How could you think phish suck's. I bet you any money that you have never actually listened to their music. They have great jams in their live shows and in their studio recorded albums. Someone comented that phish is not a jam band. Wow. Phish is the king of all jam bands.

i actually find it quite amusing that u bash phish and priase primus, i would say that primus (while excellent musicians) are one of the most annoying bands to listen to, worst song writers ever! listening to les claypool sing sounds to much like nails on a chalkboard, unlike phish, while although some of their songs are clearly supposed to be intended as 15 minute long jams, are probably the best band in the modern era- end of discussion

Phish simply were the most amazing rock band of the 90's, period. Their break-up devestatd millions, if Primus broke up, nobody would care in the least, seems to me the writer of this blog, does not know how to get down. I love phish, loved all 60 shows I went too, great memories, too bad the writer of this blog will never get to experience like a Phish show.

Back when A Picture of Nectar was released, Rolling Stone absolutely trashed the band.

When the band was breaking up, Rolling Stone called Phish the most important rock band of the 90s.

So, even opinionated turds can come to appreciate the band.