Why don't you shut up and get a life? The show hasn't even happened yet and you have already given a review of the show? Isn't that exactly typical of people as narrow minded and as ignorant as you? With your poisoned pen before the thing even happens..you are not even going to the show but I bet we will get a review of the show from you..LOL..You do spend a lot of time for a woman you obviously could not care fore..Those of us actually GOING to the show CAN@t WAIT to see the usual supreme theatrical performances of her songs that we have loved all through the years..we have no doubt she will maintain her entertainer supreme standards..you fools are the ones still calling it "shock tactics"..LOL..This is Madonna..She likes to depict whatever she is singing about and express herself..Lesbians, war, whatever..you don't like, it? You are bored?..to quote the woman herself.." I can't tell you how much I don't care"

If you took a moment, to sit down and think before you post, you might gain more respect and have more credibility on the board..I mean, to read supposed reports of a show that hasn't happened and you have already laid into the woman? I pity your wife.

WHAT?! Did you think I would ignore this? You knew I wouldn't:) You must have missed me..I missed you too, sweetie..LOL.

Interesting to read a review which is solely based on rumours and gossip. (The show does How can one properly review or critisize a concert before it's even begun? (Or before watching it for that matter?)

The show opens with Madonna simulating sex with a female tango dancer? Interesting considering that's not how the show opens according to those in the know.

I also find it interesting that people such as yourself have been bashing Madonna for near 25 years now, yet she is still one of the most successful female recording artists in history.

Obviously she's doing something right.

you are a sad pathetic person, which would be okay by me if you werent this incredibly dull. This way you just annoy everyone. Why dont you do us a favour and put a big hard dick in your mouth to avoid speaking stupidities?

I can only agree with Sandra and David! IF Madonna is to show war images and stuff it's not because of shock tactics it's to make a statement and if some more people would understand the meaning behind it the world wouldn't be full of so many ignorant people!!!
If you don't like an artist just ignore him/her.

Hey,That's not very nice Dees.Don't you talk about our Sandra like that. Are you
trying to scare off one of BC's greatest
comediennes???

Al..you are a true idiot. The rumor of this concert was originally posted by the Sun, a tabloid and picked up by the New York Post, another tabloid. Madonna's people have said the show is an assault on the senses, but what has been printed about it has been total lies. The show doesn't, by the way, open with "Die Another Day." It opens with Vogue. Even if she does pull lesbian stunts...good for her. In this day and age where being gay is worse than going to defensless countries and murdering people, good for Madonna. I can only hope she does it in a tasteful way, rather than the cheesy Britney and Christina kiss. And in terms of war..I hope she has a strong anti war message. Once again, the media is making up rumors about something and idiots like Al are going along with it.

al barger is a lot more than just an idiot. idiot would seem to me, far too kind a label to post him.

David, the thing is, even if Madonna is doing the tango with a female dancer..the "Drowned world tour" 3 years ago when she sang "What it feels like for a girl" in spanish "Lo que siente La mujer(hope that's spanish;)..She did the salsa with a female dancer but to conservative anal retentive people that is "simulating sex"..I mean, it would be troubling if it wasn't laughable.

For people like our "critic" here, anything other than the missionary position during sex is an OUTRAGE. God forbid his woman suggests some adventure, he would need to contact Bob Dylan to see if that is acceptable in his world..
How dare Madonna change clothes during her show? How dare she do anything about the visual effects of the show? Nevermind the 250 million Albums/singles sold which discounts his ridiculous point that if she did not do all those things will they go watch or listen to her? Last time I checked, CDs don't come with costume changes and videos and all that Jazz. The critics are clutching at straws. They have nowhere to go with their criticism anymore. Conical Bra? This woman is satan's bride...It's funny how she sells out tours every single time playing to millions of people all over the world simply because of costume changes and "shock tactics" afterall, it should be boring by now? Right?..NO. What's boring is that people like Barger haven't come up with new put downs or criticisms..same old boring critiques of Madonna...Damn, I guess if they didn't write about Madonna would anyone read their articles or even know who they are?...Now, that's the 64,000 dollar question cos M has certainly shown over the years that these unintelligent criticims just don't hold water.

If at 45 she's grandma..I guess Bob Dylan is a corpse..somebody better pinch him and make sure he's not a ghost. He sure looks like he's dead.

If Madonna had done the Victoria Secrets ad, Al barger would write an article of how sleazy she is... It's unbelievable how they can't see what hypocrites they are.
Yup..caught me at the wrong time Al my boy. If you thought I was in Madonna overdrive before..the tour is about to start.. I can't get enough:) And I love that people like you will be keeping me entertained through out. Love it! I am loving IT! This must be your worst nightmare:) Sold out Madonna tour and she'll be all over the news.

Don't worry. People of your ilk have already written their show reviews before the show. Just like you. Madonna knows that already as do her fans. We don't care cos we know come Monday some of the people in the front row having a fabulous time will be those very people that will print rubbish the next day. C'est la vie and it's a bitch:)

King Louie, I think you will find that Dees is referring to Al. However, if Dees is referring to me then he will let me know. At that point I will let him know whether I have done as he has asked regarding the sucking of dick:)

I'm not really that much of a Madonna fan...but I laughed when I saw this post by the so-called critic "Al Buger." It goes to prove that anybody can be a critic these days..all they have to do is review a show BEFORE it starts...LOL...oh, by the way, The New York Post is nothing but a tabloid but coservative, right wing fundamentalists like Al Buger believe anything they read.

Big surprise. I can just hear Madonna and her staff at a strategy meeting ---

Madonna: OK, what can I do on this tour that will divert attention away from the fact that I can't sing any better a junior high school choir girl?
Staff: Lots of dancers and colored lights!
Madonna: But when I dance, my voice gets all jittery.
Staff: None of your fans will notice. Don't worry.
Madonna: OK, dancers, yeah, good. What else?
JB - a staff member: How about simulated sex?
Madonna: Been there.
JB: With a chick.
Madonna: Hmmm.
JB: A foreign chick.
Madonna: Not bad, JB.
JB: An exotic dancing foreign tango chick with barely any clothes on!
Madonna: JB, you're a genius! Hmmm. But I don't want people to think I'm still superficial. I need something else.
Ian - another staff member: Maddy baby, I've got it. A backdrop of starving kids.
Madonna: You mean a bunch of dirty-faced little runts from Syria or one of those other African countries? That's just depressing.
Ian: While you're doing a cover of "Imagine." It can't hurt to leech off that Lennon world peace mystique bullshit.
Madonna: Brilliant, Ian....mmmmm...kissy, kissy.
Chantelle -- another staff member: Look, people, the best diversion is to complain about the Bush administration. You can show your depth by proclaiming that you don't like war! But it's a show. You don't want to be up there giving a bloody speech. You have to be subtle.
Maddona: I could rip up a picture of Rummy.
Chantelle: Too Sineady.
Madonna: I could ram a mike stand into a TV screen showing a Bush speech.
Chantelle: Too Veddery.... Hmmm... Right, how's this? Run a movie of battlefield scenes with lots of big explosions and smoke. They won't pay any attention to your caterwauling, and you can dress up in a uniform and smirk so people know you're against violence. That's deep. And American pop fans love that anti-establishment anti-old people schtick.
Madonna: Yeah, a real statement. I'm so lucky to have been born a creative artistic person. Now, what if I took this wine bottle and shoved it ....

"If Madonna simply came out on a stage with musicians and instruments- no dancers, hookers, or costumes, dressed in t-shirts and jeans- and just actually played her new album, would anyone be able to sit through it?"

She did exactly this in On Stage and On the Record for MTV, at the HMV gig in London, the Tower gig in New York and the Paris gig to support the American Life album. Lucky me got into the HMV one, and it was a fantastic concert - her voice was amazing, she was chatting happily to the audience and we all loved it. It seems bizarre that you would think to criticise her for never having done this when she did it in front of a television audience of millions.

The thing is, more than 800,000 people have bought tickets for this tour at up to £420 for VIP tickets because Madonna is simply more creative and entertaining than the vast majority of acts out there. If she was only to have produced 5 songs in her entire career - Like a Virgin, Like a Prayer, Vogue, Frozen and Music for example - she would have added more to the entire history of pop music than most of her contemporaries. The fact that she is still producing music of the standard of "Easy Ride", "X-Static Process" and "Die Another Day" suggests not a woman who is bereft of ideas but someone willing to experiment, to push herself, to create and evolve in the name of progress. Her tours are the stuff of legend, setting the standard for every other performer and leaving most trailing miserably in her wake. I'll see perhaps 12 other performances this year, but none can even hope to compete with the creativity, energy and sheer performance of Madonna.

You have selected non-facts, got the few you tried to include wrong and repeated the same criticisms which have been levelled at Madonna since 1985. She has evolved, but your opinion of her is stuck in a time warp of sexism and ageism. Surprise yourself - beg, steal or borrow to get a ticket then you might realise that you were the one who had no ideas left, recycling the prejudices of conservatives everywhere.

Madonna will entertain millions through this tour, and contribute to their happiness - ask yourself, how do you think your criticism will do the same for anyone but the people who are happy to believe anything Fox News tells them? How have you truly challenged anyone's perception or opinion by making claims based on claims based on prejudice? Madonna has re-invented, you have only reinforced your own stereotypes.

Daniel

Ladies and gentlemen, Al, Duane and their like, take a look at Duane's post..then take a look at Daniel's post...:) Nothing more need be said. The unfortunate is the one who has come up with a whole dialogue of rubbish and I wish I were as big as Daniel to have ignored his drivel completely:) But you know me...I like my gutter rats:) If I don't go down there to visit them every now and then...I would be unable to use my Kors bubble bath to cleanse myself and come out smelling all peachy and just good enough to eat:)

Success in and of itself is not a sign of talent. It's a simple case of being mediocre enough to appeal to the masses.

Lack of success in itself is not a sign of talent. It is a simple case of being awful enough to appeal to only the few with inferiority complexes enough to seek uniqueness in liking something not loved by the masses in a pathetic attempt to differentiate themselves from the norm.

Duane..hilarious! even though I don't agree with it. And to Stately Wayne Manor..good quote: "Success in and of itself is not a sign of talent. It's a simple case of being mediocre enough to appeal to the masses" But Madonna has NEVER tried to appeal to the masses..she's never been massively loved.

No matter what you think about Madonna you have to admit that she's a great artist! She has made so much... Showed the people not to be afraid to express themselves and not to be afraid to show who they are! She has always something to say and it's always something important... so this time it seems (and you can't know until the tour starts) she's making an anti-war statement - so what? Where is the shocking thing about it? Just turn on your TV and you have all the news reports with ther shock-tactics right??? How stupid - not only to judge the show before it has started but to judge it that negative only because it's Madonna without trying to get the point and that's the way i understand your "oh so intelligent" post!

I want to support any artist who not only has something to say but the balls to say it!
In a time when political correctness is valued over honesty i would also like to say: Right on Al Barger!!!

BERG GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!
The opening night will be the 24th of May so maybe from there you can write something but right now you and your post are rubbish!
BUSH OUT/ MADONNA IN!!!!!!
VOTE FOR KERRY!!!!!!

Miss Sandra- Glad to see you made it to the party. You could be just slightly nicer though.

You might actually a little bit have a legitimate point about reviewing the show before it opens. That would be illegitimate.

I was not exactly intending this as a review of her show, but I can see how you'd get that out of it. What I meant was not a criticism of this particular new venture, but of her career-long tactics.

It could be that some of the actual show does not conform to the New York Post preview, but it sounds just exactly like what Madonna has done for years.

I'm more critical of her crappy albums of the last decade and a half, ie two thirds of her career and counting. They sound like she spent about 15 minutes whipping up a couple of lines of nonsense lyrics and may five or ten seconds worth of half-ass melody, add techno beats and a box of Record Helper and call it a meal.

No kind of elaborate stage production or video she conjures up will make those crappy excuses for songs work.

Fuck yeah! I love it when Sandra and Al go head to head! Let's get Jim and RJ on here too and see what happens!

Your post is spot on Al. But why bother
engaging Sandra in a battle of the wits.
It's not fair as she isn't armed.

Al, the problem I have with you is the anal(close minded) way in which you state your opinions. I actually have no problem with you not liking the music Madonna has put out since 1990. That's your opinion. One can't legislate for tastes. In my opinion, it's your loss because you've missed lots of gems. I am not here to sell Madonna or her music to you. For every one of you, there are 5 of me. So, who cares?! However, when you brazenly accuse Madonna of all sorts of things that EVERY Artist does and you fail to acknowledge those same things in the Artists that you like, that is where you lose credibility with me. I don't care that you don't like that Madonna is provocative. You and your like are the ones who still call it "shock tactics" because you all clearly lack a new phrase. You have said yourself that it's what she's been doing her whole career. So, why are people still shocked? LOL.

I think Daniel's post above puts it very nicely and intelligently. It's the best commentary/post on this thread by a long mile and I include mine and your degenerate comments on the NYpost article in that.

Madonna is as much a musical Artist as she is a visual and creative Artist. She likes to evolve. I don't look, act or dress like I did 15 years ago. I don't know why anyone would expect Madonna to be any different. She has changed as all humans must but for her, mere changing is seen as a career tactic. How unintelligent is that line of reasoning?! There is nothing wrong in your Art/work expressing where you are at that point in your life. Be it a spiritual or sexual phase. It's all part and parcel of being yourself. Al Barger doesn't like it? Too bad. She is not going to arrive on stage looking dishevelled with a band and just stand there in one outfit and sing so people like you can think better of her.

I was at the HMV gig and part of Oxford street was shut down cos of the queues of people trying to get a band to get in since only 500 would be allowed in. It's Madonna. They would go and watch her even if she were reciting the telephone directory. She's got that superstar quality. The X factor. Deal with it and get over it. Her vocals were superb and her guitar playing was good. Even when she messed up the guitar on one song, she cracked a joke and started again. That's Madonna. That's why I like her. Nothing to be ashamed of and no regrets. Confident, through and through.

The Re-Invention tour is a concert and with Madonna a concert is what you will get. She is a woman, she likes to change clothes, she loves her make up. She likes to push buttons cos she clearly knows what gets the goat of people like you.

Barger, it is completely alright not to like Madonna's Albums of her 90's work. It is even okay not to like any of her music. It is also okay not to like her at all. However, I enjoy critics like you because you are so predictable. You say the same old things. You discount facts and show hypocrisy everytime you say anything at all. Why spend so much time talking about a woman you could not give a rats ass about? Why not ignore her?

There are many people I do not like or do not appreciate. However, I have always prided myself on giving credit where credit is due. Unfortunately, people like you never do that. More the pity because it makes you come across sad, clueless, misguided and misinformed. The woman does not have 8 octaves, neither is she going to moonwalk for you like MJ:) but she writes songs that she can sing and are within her vocal range. Anyone who still says Madonna can't sing is hard of hearing and is probably completely deaf. She will dance her heart out with enthusiasm you can't help but enjoy it. She will sing and dance(energetic choreography) which even the best of voices could not manage if they tried to hit those notes with some of Madonna's choreography. The woman is a supreme entertainer and a wonderful creative and visual Artist. I am happy for her that she has been successful in her career and has made such an impact in pop culture. Her impact will live on long after she's gone. As a package, she is an incredible talent in my opinion. You may not think so and that's alright.

Perhaps what you should worry about is how you can make your own life worth something in this world. Instead of pouring misguided scorn and vitriol on somebody who for over twenty years has gone about living her dreams and entertaining the world with her art and will be long remembered after she's dead.

Those who can, DO. Those who can't....HATE. You are an enemy of progress, Mr Barger. as are most from your school of thought. The wonderful relief in all this is that people like you are of no significance in the broad span of things. Madonna's adidas shell tracksuits have more world impact than your entire life and all it contains. Don't blame her. Don't hate the player. Hate yourself for not having the courage to perhaps pursue your own dreams for fear of failure.

Hey guys......I'm posting this on my sony clie from the Forum right now in LA. There are hundreds of people listening to the dress rehearsals..although we can't see everything, we can hear. She's singing "Crazy For You" right now and it sounds AMAZING...I can't wait until Monday.

OK, Sandra, here is one specific point where you just don't seem to be understanding me:

I don't care that you don't like that Madonna is provocative.

NO. I'm all in favor of "provocative." For starters, I don't think that she is in fact provocative. Her stuff is PASSE. It does not seem to reflect an artist with something dangerous to say, or anything like that.

A lot of her stuff (and Marilyn Manson's even more so) looks like cheap pre-fabricated "outrage" that doesn't mean anything or go anywhere.

Yanking the prudes' chains is fine, but does not in itself constitute an artistic statement. On the other hand, "Darling Nikki" is an outstanding and unique song and record. That it cheesed off Tipper Gore was just gravy.

Perhaps with all your great psychoanalytic insights based on the fact that I value MUSIC over cheap hype, perhaps you could set up a stand and charge 5 cents for your psychology, like Lucy in the Peanuts strips.

Al, sugar crumbs:), the one thing the world and her brother knows you do not value, is MUSIC.

You needn't worry about how much I'll charge you for my analysis. I am having a philanthropic moment. Doing my bit for care in the community:) Charitable mood. I think what we have here is another alarming incident of you posting when you haven't taken medication. Be a good boy, cherie, and pop your pills.

Bloody Nora! Is it past 11 in the morning already?! I haven't slept a wink. Lover's catch up with cousins is going on forever. I have Spanish men in my living room(My idea of heaven on earth, normally:) but I am so knackered & slightly inebriated..anytime I try to sleep I keep dreaming that one of them (not lover, strangely) is molesting me and I try to scream but I can't because....I am enjoying it:) Darn! I think it's time for MY medication....

I've been reading negative comments on Madonna for 20 years now, it's always the same, and it's getting really boring. Where are all the critics now from 10-20 years ago, where is Madonna now!
The only thing different here, is that this review was written, before anything has happened, based on a whole lot of c**p.

Big Al, all one can say it that

WE GET THE 'ART' WE DESERVE.

This just in!

"Madonna will close her show with a performance of "Like A Virgin" accompanied by seven men and women, each towing a nude Arab male on a dog leash. The dancers will be dressed in miltary camos and elbow-length blue plastic surgical gloves. (Black eyeless hoods provided by Ralph Lauren.) She plans to change the lyrics to "Like seventy virgins, waiting there in Paradise... etc. "

Always topical, always provocative!

Madonna rocks, baby!

If we get lucky maybe an electric chair
malfunction will fry her fat ass off...

Shark- Now THAT would be provocative. Hell, I'd pay money to see that.

Just a day to go Sandie. We're not in L.A yet. We'll be there before 5pm tomorrow. I'm sure of that.

Al Barger, Madonna's biggest fan, starts yet another topic on her. I have to agree with Sandra. Daniel's post is the best response to Al's usual jibberish. Comment 22 isn't bad either. I don't know why everyone is so surprised he is writing before the concert commences. He doesn't need the show to actually happen before he can say something bad about it. It's Madonna and he knows what he feels about her. That's all he needs. It's typical of Al. I am assuming you were in the mood for Al, Sandie? Otherwise this topic should have been ignored. My youngest daughter always says, silence is the best answer for a fool. I'm not saying Al is a fool but if the shoe fits...

I've got some home run killer lines from this thread.

Funny line by Dario, "BUSH OUT/ MADONNA IN!!!!!!" Ha Ha Ha.

Cold but true line by Sandra, "Madonna's adidas shell tracksuits have more world impact than your entire life and all it contains."

Drum roll, the funniest line by far on this topic. By Sandra, "For people like our "critic" here, anything other than the missionary position during sex is an OUTRAGE."

Ha Ha Ha. It's a classic. You have my whole family rolling in laughter. You're a star. I'll be sure to bring you feedback from tomorrow. Don't be jealous now. You'll get your turn TWO months down the line.

I certainly get the art I deserve. I am looking forward to the concert. Never been to a Madonna concert and I hear they are the stuff of legend. So say my entire family and my music bible, Q magazine.

Ihateoreilly, how do you know this inside info? Do you know if she's singing "Live To Tell"? Do you know if she's singing "Nothing Fails" from the new album? We all have dream setlists. I hope mine is closer to the original. I'll find out soon enough. It would be good to know before the show though.

I'm not a music insider...but I live pretty close to the forum and she had a dress rehearsal Friday night with over 500 people (friends, family members, etc.). I was only able to listen from the doors and I was amazed at what I heard. Here are the songs I remember: Vogue, Nothing Fails, Music, Like A Prayer, Holiday, Crazy For You, Nobody Knows Me, Material Girl (eww..can't believe she performed this one), American Life, Express Yourself, Mother and Father, Burning Up, Deeper and Deeper, Bedtime Story, Die Another Day. A couple of songs seemed lipsynched (they sounded too much like the record), but most of it sounded live..her voice on Crazy For You was amazing. I'll be there Monday night as well.

Again, have fun Lomu..and you too Ihateoreilly. Though I am quietly amused at how much you claim you can tell from just listening through closed doors. The good thing is, the show starts tomorrow. All will be revealed then. No need for speculation.

I would have liked Live to tell as well, Lomu. I like Material girl but would have much preferred Dress U up:) She often changes songs around as she goes from city to city..I hope Dress U up shows up on the set list of the shows I'm attending.

There are still some out there that have not been carried away with the trend of Madonna bashing just for the hell of it, or the competition for who will come up with the wittiest phrase in the latest insult, or the competition for who wants to become a household name because they said blah-blah about M. "There goes the critic that said blah blah about Madonna, he is on Larry King tomorrow":) At the very least, journalists like Mr Deurden lead one to believe that there might still be a few who prefer to leave personal feelings/likes/dislikes/tastes aside and judge as is..

Article from The Independent.

Queen of the comeback

Icon, lover, mother, mogul: Madonna has done them all and, along the way, defined stardom. As she reinvents herself again (on stage, naturally), Nick Duerden sifts her greatest hits and misses

24 May 2004

Some time later this evening, Madonna will walk out on to a Los Angeles stage, clad only in Chanel and essence of kabbalah, for the first of what promises to be the most extravagant series of shows she has yet undertaken. Given that all pop stars of global appeal invest much of their neuroses in the eternal need to come back bigger-better-more, this isn't a particularly surprising boast, but given that this is Madonna - the Queen of Pop, lest we forget - we should take the claim seriously. As, presumably, should the British fans who have forked out up to £150 for the privilege of seeing the show when it reaches these shores later this summer.

She's called it the Reinvention Tour, and to suggest that it will be lively is a little like suggesting that Everest is a tallish mountain with some snow on top. According to a mysteriously unidentified source (but let's take a stab in the dark and guess that it's someone on her payroll), the show "will make people's hair stand on end. Madonna has pulled out all the stops to make it her most controversial yet. The concerts are going to cause a stir on the same level as her Sex book and the Erotica album."
The tour's production is massive, costing more than £1m to stage. It will feature Rolling Stones-style pyrotechnics and the kind of special effects not normally seen outside a Texas penitentiary: at one point, Madonna will be strapped into an electric chair that will, we are told, "frazzle" her.
Presumably she won't die, because there's more. Her single "American Life" will be re-worked into an anti-war anthem, with images of troops in Afghanistan and Iraq being shot to pieces. In her rendition of John Lennon's "Imagine", she will spontaneously break down in tears in front of pictures of starving children. Every night.

If this all sounds a little too Michael Jackson, fear not. This is Madonna, after all, and there will be lots of bare flesh and bad language. She'll be indulging in some lesbian sex because - well, why the hell not? And for the climax, she will rise from the dead, something her namesake never managed.

Tickets for the Reinvention Tour have sold out with an alacrity that the woman herself must find a considerable relief. Over the past couple of years, Madonna - wife, mother, Mini Cooper-driving superstar - has flexed her artistic muscles right across the media, with wildly varying results.

Her private life, never out of the public eye, is reportedly in turmoil. She might not act again, and is being held responsible for killing her director husband's promising career stone dead. The tabloids have it that the couple are fighting like cat and dog: over children, over the former footballer Vinnie Jones, over whose turn it is to pacify the paparazzi. She is delving into the teachings of kabbalah, the Hollywood-friendly religion into which she has allegedly poured several million pounds to help fund and publicise.

If ever there was a time Madonna needed to be reminded of her enduring popularity as, if nothing else, the greatest pop star who ever lived, that time is now.

The pop star

In the past 20 years, Madonna has sold more than 250 million records. From the pure pop of her 1983 debut Madonna to the sophisticated majesty of her finest album, Like a Prayer (1989), and with several bizarre diversions - such as 1992's Erotica, in which she panted, sexually, towards hyperventilation - Madonna has always been music's most forward-thinking visionary.

But most fans will only ever associate her greatest moment with the point in 1983 when she burst through the celebrity stratosphere as the decade's quintessential "Material Girl". For all the sophistries of her later incarnations, many remember her most fondly, and with no small amount of nostalgia, for the days in which her sartorial ensemble consisted of nothing more designer than a DIY dye job, scarlet lipstick and a yard or so of tulle.

Others champion 1986's True Blue as her finest moment: for this, she sheared her frazzled locks and sported a short platinum crop. The album, which included the seminal "Papa Don't Preach", sold 19 million copies and made No 1 in 27 countries. And where, artistically, she may have failed to score points for the lyrical poignancy of Erotica, Madonna still managed to win most critics round by judicious disrobing.

In musical terms, it's hard to pinpoint anything where she got it completely wrong, although most would agree that her decision to record "American Pie" was perhaps the most misdirected decision of her career so far. Ray of Light would have been a very respectable point at which to retire gracefully from the music scene, but last year's American Life heralded yet another new beginning for the Material Girl - as white rapper. "I do yoga and Pilates/ And the room is full of hotties/ So I'm checking out the bodies and you know I'm satisfied," she raps triumphantly on the title track of an album that some consider her best yet.

So, while she may not be selling records in the same vast quantities, she remains the most interesting, challenging and innovative artist of her generation. Each album features another cutting-edge producer taking her in new directions. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but whatever she comes up with is worth listening to. That is no small achievement.

The film star

Back in 1985, Madonna could do no wrong. Having performed so seductively in the videos for "Like a Virgin" and "Papa Don't Preach", she thought she'd do likewise on the big screen. Desperately Seeking Susan, however, suggested that she'd be wiser sticking to pop videos.

But Madonna was never going to be so easily thwarted. She married an actor (Sean Penn) and appeared in a string of films - Shanghai Surprise (ghastly), Body of Evidence (gruesome) and Dick Tracy (grim) - turning in performances that suggested she was no more an actress than she was a zoologist. But Evita brought a modicum of actorly respect, and dreams of Oscar glory never quite receded.

When she married Guy Ritchie, many feared they would do what married couples should never do: work together. Temptation proved too much. Madonna was apparently convinced that Swept Away, billed by some fool as a "romantic comedy", would be the role of her life. Instead, it was a gossamer-light tale of a rich socialite's wife who gets shipwrecked on a desert island with an unctuous but handsome Italian man who bullies her, demeans her and tries to rape her before true love intervenes... as true love so often does.

It is difficult to say anything positive about Swept Away, because it's the worst movie ever made. The script is painful. The acting, Madonna's in particular, is appalling, and Ritchie's flash directorial flourishes are nowhere to be seen. The film was slaughtered in America, and went straight to video in the UK. It seems Madonna has now seen sense and stuck to the roles of wife, mother and spiritual guru. However, only time will tell whether Madonna's weakness for the big screen will see her in another disastrous film role.

The wife and mother

Once pilloried by church and state for her wanton sexuality and evil ways, Madonna's reinvention in 1996 after the birth of her daughter Lourdes marked one of the most spectacular image transformations ever. Meanwhile the father, her personal trainer Carlos Leon's role was largely played down by the Madonna team. Her single- parent status culminated in a Vanity Fair spread, in March 1998, in which she resembled Mother Earth made flesh.

Her subsequent marriage to Guy Ritchie, with whom she had a second child, Rocco, sealed her status a celebrity family woman, making her the UK's official spokesperson on motherhood, education, the NHS, child-rearing and shearing (she dictates how children's hair should be styled) and any other subject of family interest she cares to lend her opinions on.

The religious guru

Madonna Louise Ciccone must be one of the world's most famous lapsed Catholics. Ever since she pleasured herself on stage in 1990 with a crucifix, the Pope has taken a very dim view of her art. She has since taken her spirituality elsewhere, stopping temporarily at the temple of Buddhism before settling upon the teachings of the kabbalah, as taught by the 4,000-year-old religion's self-styled "world's foremost authority", one Rabbi Philip Berg, a former insurance salesman. Under a headscarf and the pseudonym Ethel, she attends weekly teachings of the kabbalah in London. She is now as recognisable for her faith as she was, 10 years ago, as John Paul Gaultier's conical-bosomed muse.

Kabbalah, she has explained, teaches one the art of self-healing. Followers are apparently able to promote a "positive flow of energy" that can aid everything from fertilisation to slowing down the ageing process.

One of the requirements of the religion is that followers spread the word. This she has duly done. David and Victoria Beckham are recent converts, as is Britney Spears, each under Madonna's tutelage. This shouldn't come as a surprise: Madonna has always been a trendsetter, a leader of sheep and even, sometimes, a converter of cynics. Her husband is a convert to kabbalah and, as a result, no longer mingles with landed gentry and no longer accompanies Vinnie Jones on pheasant shoots. Jones is said to be unimpressed.

The novelist

Having once sung about bedtime stories (on the album of that name in 1994), Madonna has turned to writing them. If this seems a little incongruous for a woman whose only previous foray into literature was a coffee-table sex book in which she was photographed getting physical with Naomi Campbell, so what? Madonna's dictum is that there are, simply, no rules.

And so, last year, she signed a deal to write a series of five children's books, each re-telling a kabbalah morality tale. The first, The English Roses, which shifted 100,000 copies in its first week, was published last year. Grown-ups were cynical, but children loved it. "I like the book because when you read the first word you are hooked," says Celia Hulse, nine, from Manchester. "You can't wait to find out what happens. My mum said she has never known me to keep quiet for so long." She's hardly JK Rowling, of course, but Madonna's transition into the teller of children's stories is perhaps her greatest reinvention yet.

The brand

The Reinvention Tour travels America over the next two months and arrives in the UK in August, by which time Madonna will be the Madonna of old all over again. The world's most famous woman will once again dominate the red-tops. Columnists, talk-show hosts and members of Parliament will throw up their arms at the electric-chair stunt, the gratuitous nudity and the unnecessary profanities. Is this, they will ask, any way for a 45-year-old mother of two to behave? Is Madonna trying too hard?

Of course she is - but then Madonna has always tried too hard. And it is precisely this that makes her such a fascinating figure, such an enduring icon - in short, still the greatest star in the world.


Source: The independent

What interests me - as a Madonna fan - is the Pavlovian reaction that anyone gets from the Madonna throngs to ANY criticism of Madonna, ever. It's a given that it is of dubious merit to review a show in advance, but IF any of Al's assumptions about the show are based on the realities of the show, then how can anyone dispute his basic premise that her routine of ritualistic provocation is getting old?

I didn't read any of the comments because I'd be too bored, frankly. But I take issue with your nonsense about Dylan's VS ad being controversial and provocative? Um NO. It confirms what I've always known, that Dylan is a mock rebel sell-out pre-packaged for yuppies who drive BMWs and wear sandals on the weekends away from their brokerage firms. Dylan's "politics" have always been a convoluted jumble of nonsense masquerading as poetic depth. He's a hack and a charlatan who'll sell anything. He's not fooling anyone with the Salvador Dali mustache and being weird and thin now. He's not an artist, he's a salesman. And the new ad is just bad and creepy. Yeah, he's in the shadows leching after the hot young model in bra and panties with a smug smirk on his face. That's controversial and stimulating why? He just looks like a pathetic, doddering, old, impotent pervert to me and the ad itself is a failure. It's NOT sexy since he doesn't interact with the woman or seem to elicit much of a response from her in any way. The younger viewers who respond to the VS model ads don't even know who the hell the weird old guy is -- they probably think it's Vincent Price resurrected, if they even know who that is. Dylan did it for a fat paycheck and to pretend there's some virility left in those dust-dry, moribund old bones.

I wouldn't call myself a Madonna fan, but I do recognize her genius in being a self-promoting chameleon who has maintained an audience over 20 years in many different guises. She's a brilliant pop icon and provocateur. The reason her last album didn't sell well and the reason she's so desperate to try to shock now (the lame Britney kiss) is because old Mo has finally become IRRELEVANT and OLD. Like Dylan, she's all full of herself and the adulation and thinks she's an intellectual and an artist. Madonna's genius was never ideology, it was always image. She actually THINKS she has some substance to her now, with the nonsense Kabbalah and yoga and living in London because she's too good to watch American TV despite her hack guest spot on Will & Grace (the first ring of celebrity hell's career decline ... hello JLo). Her annoying kids and annoying husband and BS mysticism fails to connect with any of her fans. Even the absolute failure of Swept Away didn't burst her bubble -- she doesn't realize she's horribly boring in her current incarnation in any interview, what with the pretentious, narcissistic speech and the oh-so-self-serious demeanor. She's so affected she can't even function anymore: has anyone seen her act or be interviewed lately? She flutters her eyes and says half of her words with her eyes closed while searching for the "right words" in that empty, deluded head of hers. Don't call it "maturation" that she plays her old classics really slowly now -- "once more with feeling" -- and hires hot techno producers to breathe some life, ANY life into her languid "pop" dirges. She still writes a decent song here or there and she'll always have her core following, but she's become so Dylanized and lame it's not likely she'll shock anyone. All of her attempts will seem pandering and lame, like the Britney kiss and that sexless music video. Part of the problem is that the culture has moved left of where she was (at least before the Janet Jackson boob incident started the backlash, speaking of old desperate pop stars). Christina Aguilera's out-filthed Madonna and is 20 years younger and hotter. The pop machine has co-opted Madonna's pop rebellion. She WAS the pop machine for many years; no longer. Her music video with Bush and Bin Laden and her anti-war stuff didn't resonate with ANYONE. She backed down to censorship, which was always a battle she fought in the 1990s and is doomed to quiet yawns greeting her "bold" statements on the world these days. Madonna can't connect with the world anymore because she doesn't know how real people live and talk. She's too busy being a self-styled Queen to make "music [that] brings the people together." She was always the great popularizer, who stole edgy elements from the culture and sold it back, pre-packaged, plastic, and shiny to the the masses to consume. As the song says, she tried to sell "the rebel" image to the bourgeoisie and always had a new flavor to spice up the lives of shopaholics. No one's buying the product anymore, though, especially at a time when even Britney's sales drop in half every album.

Dylan and Madonna are irrelevant and desperate. It happens to all pop stars.

Bob A. Booey, I LOVE YOU, MAN!

(The guy makes me sound like a host for Entertainment Nightly.)

PS: The Dylan riff is a classic. Print 'em up and staple 'em to the foreheads of every music fan on BC.

.....I asked Caresse. The manager laughed and then called out, 'Madonna, Liz Smith thinks you've become too saint-like to have fun anymore!'
And then, after a lot of background noise and cackling, a familiar voice was suddenly on the phone, one I haven't heard in several years,

""'Liz, I am happier now than I've ever been in my life. I have two beautiful children and a brilliant, gorgeous husband. I have my work and I have my faith. None of that means I've lost my sense of humor or my sense of fun. If that's boring to some people, I can't tell you how much I don't care""

Sandra: (Bob, a booey, that response is for you and your ilk, dear:)


Madonna spoke with snappy (not snappish) authority. Then she said, 'I've got to get back to rehearsal or Jamie's going to kill me. But I'll see you at the Garden, right?' She meant Madison Square Garden, where her six shows in June sold out within minutes. As did 35 others around the world......(NYpost..Liz Smith.)

Sandra: Dontcha just love this type of irrelevance Bobby my boy?! Hmm? Christina Aguilera(younger and hotter) would kill for it. Seeing as she had to cancel some shows due to poor ticket sales. Christina would love to sell out six shows at the garden on her own seeing as she is so "NOW" and "relevant"..She and Timberlake so "now" and "hip" wouldn't need to drag each other cross country because they are so "now" they ought to be able to sell out arenas and stadiums on their own shouldn't they? Reflect in a calmer moment after the adrenalin rush of this rant and ask yourself if the so hip and now would not love the "irrelevance" of Madonna seeing as she's sold out 48 shows worldwide..LOL. I just love this sort of blanket ignorance and total refusal to acceot reality. A preference for oblivion, eh Bobby?;)

I love this sort of lack of connection to the public. An Album sells b/w 4-6mill and it's called a flop..YUP..I am loving this type of irrelevance. Heaven knows what it means to be relevant but I think most would live with M's sort of irrelevance right now:)

You don't dig the Madonna thing anymore..she's not interesting to you anymore, if she ever was..lol..That's fine..but stop ranting on and spewing drivel in the face of contradictory evidence. She's obviously not too irrelevant for you to come in here and claim not to have read the comments but spent a good part of your internet time on writing a long embittered rant on somebody you think is now just old and boring..heaven knows how long your posts were when you thought she was young and just that bit interesting..lol:)..Have a tequila on me, Bob. I enjoy people like you..LOL.

Re: comment 36- Booey, That's controversial and stimulating why?

It's controversial and stimulating because it directly and purposefully tweaks the cheesy left wing assumptions of his own fan base. That's the whole point of the exercise. Bob Dylan doing an ad. For underwear?! He's confounding expectations.

Sandra,

I'll spank you.

I discussed Madonna in depth with you peons because I admitted she's an interesting cultural icon and promotional genius. Of course there's no comparing the teenyboppers to her and her longevity -- hence my notes about Britney's dropping record sales (and Christina's as well). My point about Christina was Madonna can't shock people because she's been out-skanked from all directions.

Madonna will always have her following for what she's done. My point is that her ability to shock with her work is becoming virtually nil and she'll soon be a nostalgia act. Most of her hardcore fans have yet to realize she's boring (they're fanatical like that in other countries), but believe me: she's boring. Anyone who sees what she says or does now realizes that. She's desperate. You can't deny this.

Furthermore, her record sales are dropping. I'm feeling too lazy to do the research, but I've definitely read this and it's a fact. 4-6 million is not an accurate figure ... I might believe it worldwide but I'd say that her last album was lucky to be platinum in the States. She's definitely not in her prime in terms of selling records.

The important thing, though, is that America's gone limp on Madonna's new work. She's not provocative or controversial anymore. I mean, come on ... "I've got my faith, Liz dahling and my wondahful husband...."
Who the hell is she now anyways? We're all so interested in what a great mom she is, right? No one's a little bit sick of hearing about those precious kids.

Kabbalah is not her faith. It's a fad new age hobby to her.

Bottom line, honey. Madonna may still make money, but she's not important to the culture. I know you have no concept of what culture means, which is evident from the fact that you somehow think I'm a Christina fan. But try and wrap your old noodle around that, baby.

I'm the diva now.

That is all.

Al Barger: you can't tell me you didn't laugh when you wrote that. I mean, seriously. Be honest. You know that's horsecrap. You laughed, admit it.

That's the most convoluted, complicated explanation of a sell-out I've ever heard.

Yeah, cuz it was so tongue-in-cheek right? He was "tweaking" his fans. Oh please. Dylan has NEVER had any sense of humor or concept of irony and he's certainly not going to find one in his late 60s, Salvador Dali folk icon phase.
He's developed a Messiah complex and his God is Mammon. His mission in life is to save your wallet from the scourge of money. Give up materialism, pseudo-hippies, and give your blood money to Dylan and his sponsors. You're right ... that IS a hoot. What a clever fellow.

He did the ad to cash in. I think that's a simpler explanation, don't you?

Love ya poodle :)

That is all.

I wondered if your state of oblivion was self inflicted due to misguided stubbornness or if it was drug induced. Comment 40 clearly shows that it is drug induced. That means there is nowhere we can go from here.

All I can say is, if this is the World's way and particularly America's way of showing somebody that they are bored with her, then we'll take it. Fork out $300 for 20 shows she does round America to show her you are bored with her? LOL..Hells bells..I'll take it:) Once you have become an icon in the stratosphere of Madonna, you can never be irrelevant. I think history teaches us that. YOU are bored with Madonna and Dylan. YOU don't think they are relevant anymore.

DO NOT speak on behalf of the world because those you speak for are shelling out by the hundreds to see this "boring" and "irrelevant" person. Buying GAP corduroys by the millions because this "irrelevant" person advertised it. Buying Von dutch trucker hats, adidas tracksuits, wearing kaballah bracelets, researching Wesley Clarke and all other issues because this "irrelevant pop culture" person is doing, wearing or discussing it.

I like the culture I am aware of Bobby. Your idea of what is relevant in pop culture is drowned in a drug induced haze obviously. I take my pop culture sober and sane. Thanks for playing. Enough said.

Booey, dude, you SO don't have the whole Dylan picture. Humor was fairly high on his list through his early years. To that end, dig out (for starters) "Bob Dylan's 115th Dream" or the title song "Highway 61."

If Dylan was after the MONEY, he'd have been selling out left and right long ago. How much could an underwear manufacturer be offering? Surely GM would be willing to give him 10 times ANYTHING Victoria's Secret could offer.

The fact that YOU don't get the joke doesn't mean that there isn't one.

yes, despite the fact that i hate anybody's tune's being used in advertising...i don't think dylan is a sellout.

for many year now, he's been on what almost seems like a crusade to rectify his history of bad concerts in the 70's and 80's: by touring his ass off with a crack band. of course, he makes money doing this...but it ain't easy.

Al Barger: I don't know why you write on this site. You have no analytical ability in any of your comments I've seen. Explain what's a joke about the VS ad. Does anyone else think it's a joke? Anyone else find it funny? Please chime in.

Dylan's getting older. He realizes he doesn't have a lot of time left to cash in. The reason he took a VS ad rather than a GM ad is because he thinks it helps his image and makes him look more youthful and sexy. That's almost sadder than the payday aspect of it. The songs you list aren't funny or ironic, sorry.

Saleski, think about the argument you just made: Dylan's not a sell-out because he tours around the country non-stop to make money.

Sandra the Madonna Stalker says:
"DO NOT speak on behalf of the world because those you speak for are shelling out by the hundreds to see this "boring" and "irrelevant" person. Buying GAP corduroys by the millions because this "irrelevant" person advertised it. Buying Von dutch trucker hats, adidas tracksuits, wearing kaballah bracelets, researching Wesley Clarke and all other issues because this "irrelevant pop culture" person is doing, wearing or discussing it.
I like the culture I am aware of Bobby. Your idea of what is relevant in pop culture is drowned in a drug induced haze obviously. I take my pop culture sober and sane. Thanks for playing. Enough said."

Where to even begin ...
Doing a Gap ad isn't a sign of your cultural relevance. In fact, most would say that TV ads are a sign of a big star's decline, especially when they have to rely on Missy Elliott to prop them up while whoring out a classic song from your catalog for ugly, cheap clothes. Do you REALLY think Madonna started the Von Dutch trucker hats and Adidas look? You are so out of it and old. Geez. Once again, another example of Madonna following the trends and selling them back to slack-jawed soccer moms such as yourself. Only now, she's too old to not look ridiculous wearing those hip outfits.

Wearing Kabbalah bracelets isn't a fashion except with aging Hollywood half-wits and LA hippies. I've never seen one ever.

Researching Wesley Clark? Yeah, remember Madonna's little world-wide e-mail supporting good old warmonger Wes in the primaries? A load of good that did him, huh? It proves NO ONE CARES about Madonna's politics since they're so poorly thought out. She didn't do enough research to know that he supported and trained the School of Americas that propped up military regimes in Central and South America and overthrew elected progressive democracies. And I don't really remember much of a "research Wes Clark" fad and I certainly don't remember Madonna ever inspiring library research out of anyone.

The last paragraph of yours is just precious. "I like the pop culture I am aware of." That's exactly the point, and the problem. You're bland and boring and limited -- to people like you, old, boring Madonna is still exciting and sophisticated because your life lacks excitement until you pay out $15 for a shiny new plastic Madonna CD or $100 for a ticket to hear Madonna mangle her old songs and offer her sickeningly self-involved stage banter. I'll do the favor of translating another sentence of yours. "I like my pop culture sober and sane." Read as: "I like my pop culture boring and safe." You're so lacking in perspective that you don't realize how INSANE Madonna's staidness has become, with the mysticism and British affect and questionable dedication to motherhood. She's a narcissist and always has been. That's why she's great and that's why she's flawed. Sober and sane? Never. My point is that her narcissism has grown tiresome and makes her voice irrelevant to today's scene. She's a nostalgia act -- enjoy her concert and have another Bon Bon.

Thanks for trying the diva send-off too, but "enough said" isn't dismissive enough. Try something like ...

That is all.

LOL..I think YOU are the one who should stop typing on this site. Why? The more you type, you reveal yourself.LOL. You know so much about this woman you say is so boring now. Right down to her mannersims like blinking...right down to her accent..LOL..I mean, you are truly a sad case. Soccer mom? Moi? LOL..You are so stupid I don't know where to start or WHY I started and WHY I should continue. Therefore, I shan't say anymore. Check out the meaning of pop culture while you flounder around your world in drug induced haze. Speaking of "stalkers" I would hate to think what you knew when you found her interesting, let alone now that you find her boring. You must have been sleeping outside her home. This level of stupidity is alrming and very unhealthy. You are bound to spontaneously combust in complete idiocy any minute. Calm yourself. Enough said.

Oh, I almost forgot ...

I speak for the world because I, too, am a narcissist. That's why I have an understanding with Madonna, you see. Pure genius. And please don't get so defensive and angry, Sandra dear. It's one thing to be a fan, but you seem to make it awfully personal. I don't use drugs. I'm too boring myself to do that.

Diva out!

Sandra, I had a blast. It was fantastic. I can't wait to go to my second show. Remember I had bought tickets previous to the opening night tickets? It is worth it. I wondered why we had tickets for different venues but now I know why. The wife is always smart. There was so much going on, you need a second or third show to truly grasp it all. So many images on screen. It was so hard keeping up with Madonna and the images on the screen. Her voice was amazing. Especially during her rendition of "Imagine" which was just fabulous and had the whole arena emotionally charged. The stage scene was great. She was all on her own with her guitar and the spotlight on her. We had images of war on the screen. We had a Palestine and Israeli boy walking hand in hand. It was truly moving. American Life was the rocky version. Very good. I think on the screen there was a video footage of Bush and Hussein kissing. I am not a hundred percent sure but it brought cheers and applause. There was so much going on and nobody sat down. Everybody was singing.

We were up close and very near the celebs. Christina Aguilera was rocking her life away and singing. Tom Cruise or someone who looked exactly like him had the wife and daughters distracted for a second. Jennifer Esposito had me distracted for a minute. In the end, you couldn't look away from the stage for too long. Madonna commanded your attention with her sheer presence. Everybody seemed to have a great time. The funny thing was everybody seemed to know the words too. The celebs were singing. It was the good old fashioned fun night.

A lot of Jesus Christ images too during "Mother and father"

There was no lesbian act. She was not electrocuted though she was lowered in an electric chair. There were no naked and pregnant people during "Papa don't preach" which was one of the highlights of the show. Another highlight was "Like a Prayer" which had the whole audience singing along with video footage of lots of people singing it. She did a jazzy version of "Deeper and Deeper". I would love that on audio right now.

I can't do it Justice, Sandra. There's so much information. Some of it I don't even know because there was so much to look at. Everybody was singing and dancing and at the same time gazing in awe and admiration at Madonna. She looked fantastic. The wife was jealous. Her pose during the entrance brought the house down. After that show, all males know exactly why Guy Ritchie is married to a woman 10 years his senior. The woman can move. She is an athletic animal. She was singing Live and flinging herself from one corner to the next. When she wasn't dancing she was with her guitar. She seemed to be having a great time herself. That passed on to the crowd. She dedicated "Crazy for you" to her fans for 20 years. The whole arena came down with screams. It was wonderful and heart moving. I am ranking it up there with "Live to tell" after hearing that live.

The show needed a lot of multitasking. I can not wait to go for the second show with the family again. It's that good. You know when something is so good you need to see it over and over again? Each time you can take something new from it? That's what Madonna's concert was. It's an amazing experience and I am glad to have been a part of it.

See you later. I hope I helped with your thirst for information. Don't pay any attention to this Bob guy. He doesn't know what he is talking about. People who accuse others of being defensive or taking things personal when their points have been shown to be rubbish do not deserve any attention at all. You said it best. For a person who claims to find Madonna boring and irrelevant, he sure knows a lot about her and has a lot of time to discuss her. That should tell you the type of animal you are dealing with here. Ignore these people Sandra. They don't deserve your attention.

Oh, I forgot. My daughters got some merchandise. There's one I bet you'll like. It's a T-Shirt saying "I have a Madonna complex". I have to go now. We are still buzzing at home. My brother can't believe me. He sees Madonna as the Whore of Babylon because she is recruiting so many to Kaballah. He claims she is in the Bible. I would worry about him if I didn't think he was saying it tongue in cheek. Apparently she was going to name the tour exactly that. Until someone suggested "Re-invention" since she was doing her body of work in a new way. Another thing, the show ends with the large screens saying to the audience "Re-invent yourself". The last two songs are Holiday and Music. A wonderful version of Holiday. My brother is going for one of the New-York shows with his family. I am not sure he can wait, the way we are carrying on in this household. Take care, Sandra.

Bob A. Booey: Saleski, think about the argument you just made: Dylan's not a sell-out because he tours around the country non-stop to make money.

That wasn't what I read. It looked to me like Mark was saying that Dylan tours around the country to "rectify his history of bad concerts in the 70's and 80's".

exactly.

Here's my review of the show..Al, once again, you and the right wingers are proven idiots as the show was NOTHING as described in the press:
The Greatest Concert Experience on my Life

Imagine my thrill when I got to the LA Forum. I know they always release incredible seats at the last minute. I asked the lady what is the best single seat she had available. She said Section C, row 2 seat 10. This is 2nd row in front of the stage! I immediately paid my $300, knowing a bunch of my checks will bounce. I sold my other seat at face value. I went into the Forum and was amazed that I was standing in the center, in front of the stage. Nobody was sitting in the front row (with the exception of three people) so the security guys in the pit said I can sit in front until somebody shows up. Nobody showed up! So I had the best seat in the house! This is real, as you will be able to see from my pictures and videos, which I will post in a couple days at Ihateoreilly.com/Madonna.html in a couple days. Unfortunately, I couldn't videotape much of the show since I was right in the front. I took some video with my mini camera but some lady decided to be a tattle tale and tell a security guard. Since he was friendly with me before the show, he just told me to be careful. I moved into another row and took some more video. The best news is that I audio taped most of the show in stereo with my mini recorder so I can relive the best concert event of my lifetime. OK....now for the show.

It's quite clear that right wing Fox News and the New York Post tried to smear the show days before it even happened by saying it was a shockathon filled with naked people, electric chairs, dead bodies, etc. This was FAR from the truth. The show wasn't the least bit shocking, at least compared with Madonna's other tours. It was visually stunning, but for once, the music was really the center of the show. Madonna did lip-sync a couple songs, but most of it was done live and it was easy to tell which was live, cause she actually sounds better live. She sounded beautiful and showed a range she has never showed before. This was especially evident when she sung "Frozen," in which she cried at the same time. Perhaps, it was makeup running down her eyes because she somehow looked 35 instead of 45.

The show opened up with "The Beast Within" on video screens, followed by Madonna rising up and looking like a statue. This immediately led into "Vogue," which was reminiscent of her 1990 MTV Video Music Awards performance. It was very impressive. Slightly less impressive was the next performance, "Nobody Knows Me," which was lip-synced. She still was able to thrill the crowd, as she was with her first non-lip-synched song of the night, "Frozen." She sounded absolutely beautiful in this. It was one of the best vocal performances of her career. Surprisingly, "American Life" was the best performance of the night, complete with the military theme, incredible dancing, and a stage that extended to the first twenty rows. Even the rap was exciting here! She did not overdo the military theme like initial rumors indicated. "Express Yourself" was also done military style and Madonna and her dancers twirled their rifles.

One of the biggest surprises of the night was "Burning Up," which Madonna confidently performed with a guitar. Her guitar skills have greatly improved since the Drowned World Tour, although she's no Eric Clapton yet. She then continued playing guitar while singing "Material Girl," in which she announced that she was not a material girl. That's hard to believe when most people had to pay $300 per ticket.
The first non-Madonna performance of the evening was "Hollywood" in which her dancers, with skateboard routines and all, did an impressive job. Although Madonna was obviously the star of the concert, her non-presence didn't make this performance any less enjoyable. "Hanky Panky" was hilarious, with Madonna singing very strongly and dressed, along with her dancers, in skimpy outfits. She followed that with a surprisingly show-tune performance of "Deeper and Deeper," in which there were no lesbian sex scenes, as previously rumored. "Die Another Day" started off with Madonna's microphone being screwed up, but she was quickly able to get back into the groove. This was followed by the beautiful "Lament" from Evita, in which Madonna dies in the electric chair. There were not any crazy special effects, as indicated by the media. This section ended with a video interlude for "Bedtime Story."

When Madonna came back on stage, in the right corner, she was strumming her guitar and singing the only off-key vocal performance of the evening "Nothing Fails." Her voice quickly picked up in a gorgeous version of "Don't Tell Me," which was very much like the performance in the Drowned World Tour, only better. She followed this with a rocking version of "Like A Prayer," in which the crowd was going nuts. There were no special effects or anything for this; her voice and the music carried this incredible performance all the way through. She then sang a slower version of "Mother and Father" in which she sang her heart out and hit the high notes like never before. She mixed that with lines from "Intervention."

A couple years back, when Madonna remade "American Pie," most hoped she would never remake a classic again. However, her version of John Lennon's "Imagine" was very touching, with pictures of starving kids in the background. She sounded beautiful and John Lennon would probably be happy with this remake. Then came the wife-beater outfits with Madonna singing a Scottish version of "Into The Groove." The dance routine here was wild, as it was for "Papa Don't Preach," which had the whole crowd singing along. By the way, there were no naked pregnant women dancing like the rumors had it.

The nostalgic moment of the show was a speedier version of "Crazy For You," which Madonna dedicated to the people who have been her fans for twenty years. This was heartfelt and brought tears to the eyes of many of her older fans. After this somber moment, Madonna led into "Music," in which the dancing was more aggressive than the same performance in the Drowned World Tour. She completely reinvented "Holiday," which ended the show. Once again, the stage grew out to the first twenty rows as Madonna, as well as the audience, eagerly danced. The show ended with George W. Bush talking about America. I don't remember exactly what he said because I wanted more from Madonna.

If there is one criticism from this show, it's that there were no encores. "Music" and "Holiday" were spaced out on the Drowned World Tour, but not this time. The show seemed to end abruptly. Perhaps this will all be worked out as the tour goes on. While walking out, just about everybody was raving about how incredible the show was and that it was even better than they expected. If Madonna is truly experiencing a career slump or downslide, as some media members have often stated these past couple years, this is sure one incredible slump. Most pop stars would only dream of captivating a crowd during their career highs as Madonna had done during her so-called "slump."

Please visit www.ihateoreilly.com/madonna later this week for a more thorough report, which will include stereo audio and some video.

A couple things that suprised me about last night:

1. She turned the lame American Life songs into great performances. American Life obviously didn't work as a single, but completely worked as a performance..even the rap.

2. Her voice: still not technically perfect but very good. She showed so much emotion in her singing that made up for her limited range.

3. Her cultural relevance: Even if she's not the "in" thing right now, people traveled all over the world to see her. Yes, tickets were being sold at less than face value but that was because of scalpers miscalculation. Madonna tricked them by adding a bunch more shows and holding back seats until the last minute. Still, the Forum was packed and with the exception of possibly Bruce Springsteen, I have never seen an audience so moved.

4. Her guitar playing: obviously, she's practiced!

I LOVED it when she threw the pigs entrails on the audience.

Lomu, my dear.

You're a boring yenta soccer mom. I'm spending time having this discussion with you and your soccer mom friend Sandra out of the dwindling hope that perhaps once in your life you'd think critically on something. I mean, the name of the site is blogCRITIC right?

I found most of what you wrote too inane to comment on, but the T-shirt was just too precious. I know you don't know much about psychology, but "I have a Madonna Complex" isn't cute or funny since there's NO SUCH THING. There's an Oedipus complex and an Electra complex in Freud. There is no Madonna friggin complex. It's not a clever pun because that phrase doesn't exist. Go have another Bon Bon.

The real tragedy is that soccer moms like you would have been offended by Madonna had you been the same age you are now in the early 1980s. She's become safe and accessible to the dim-witted and provincial. There's no danger there anymore since she's a more pretentious version of a soccer mom herself now.

Oh, and she could never sing. She's always had a terrible voice with no range or nuance. It shows you how talented she is with image to be such a big star with such limited vocal talent. Don't make me laugh with the guitar stuff -- I'm sure she's ruining many of her old pop songs by slowing them down into horrible dirges with that ridiculous acoustic guitar.

Sandra, you're the one who needs to take your Valium and Midol and calm your old self. You get all huffy and personal and defensive when anyone points out that your hero who gives meaning to your empty, lonely life has lost touch. I admit she's a genius and has had an interesting career, HAD being the operative word. I wasn't stupid enough to pay money to sit with a bunch of other weirdos though. Anyone who sees even a minute of an interview with her realizes how far gone and affected she is. Oh, and why did you stop with the clever "Sandra:" thing before every statement in your posts, darling? It gave you a properly batty, third-person dissociative, "I'm wearing a tiara" mental air.

Saleski and his buddy: Dylan mailing it in and giving half-assed performances in the 70s and 80s proves my point, not yours. He tours to make money. Whether he puts more effort into connecting with the audience now is almost a moot point. It just makes him a better product to consume, and consume him the aging yuppies will.

That is all. Fire away.

I must add, though, that the "Re-invent yourself" slogan on the screens is a nice touch. Too bad she can't do it anymore.

That is all.

Lomu, it sounds fantastic. WOW! Great to hear you had such a fabulous time. It's Madonna! For crying out loud..what did you think?!;) Guaranteed fun is always in order when the entertainer supreme takes the stage. I'm already excited. Darn it! I have such a long way to go before MY shows come round. Bloody Hell! I expect feedback from your 2nd show too:) I know I'm demanding..LOL.

I'm attending two with friends and the last show in the UK with lover. I've seen some clips on Sky and CNN. She sounds and looks fantastic. I expected nothing less. As long as God gave you ears and you CAN hear, you can't possibly come up with any other conclusion.

I've taken your advise on the drug addict. My heart goes out to the woman who carried him for 9 mths. This is the result of all those months? What a complete waste! Had she had the gift of foresight, I'm sure something would have been done in the 1st 3 months to prevent this travesty. Not that I advocate it, seeing as I'm catholic and all;)

Thanx for the feedback. I was actually getting excited while I was reading it. I visualised some parts too. What a thrill! Glad you enjoyed it:) If history repeats itself, she actually gets better..so expect to be more dazzled the next time round.

Ihateoreilly, good to hear you had fun too. May I respectfully say that you don't need to make excuses or explain yourself about M. If I have misunderstood your comment 52 then I apologise. However, it seems to me like you are trying to explain the situation so that "they" might understand. You don't need to. Madonna is what she is. Whoever doesn't like it can take a flying leap into the nearest ocean. There's nothing they can do about it but rant on websites or Foxnews.

Look around you..there are not too many musicians with technically perfect voices. You don't need a technically perfect voice to sing. Madonna has always been able to carry a tune. However, from 1989 onwards, her voice has come into it's own. This useless phrase of "limited range"..lol..in comparison to what or whom?! From Elvis to Janis Joplin..they all had limited range. Could Elvis hit the high notes like the Bee Gees? NO. Janis barely had any range. She screeched. So what?!Everytbody has their vocal range. Some have a wider range than others. Some don't. What has that got to do with the price of caviar? I don't need to say how many musicins we would have missed out on if we allowed only those with technically perfect voices and 8 octave ranges to sing. You can count on one hand the living musicians with technically perfect voices. Sarah Brightman will tell you that NO pop or rock musician has a perfect voice. It's the opera singers that have the technically perfect voices. It's as you have said. Carry the tune, sing with feeling and emotion and Jims your uncle! It's not to make up for anything. You don't need to explain to cretins like this bob person that she made up for it with emotion..LOL. He is deaf. Anyone who still bandies around the "Madonna can't sing" cliche insult is deaf and might as well chop off their ears because they are of no use.

Yup..I heard her guitar playing on this tour is so much better than drowned world. That's probably because she's been playing it regularly. She's always known how to play the thing way back in the 80's but she never bothered. Now, she's into it. Big deal! She plays, she doesn't play..who cares?!

As for American Life..was it the Rauhofer remix? Some of the remixes on the singles were fantastic. I didn't think the original was that bad. It's not as bad as "I'm so stupid" which is by far the most horrendous song she's ever penned/produced and added on to an Album.

Cultural significance..there you go again, indulging that boy on what is "in" or not..LOL.. What does he know? She doesn't have to be the "in" thing. People like Madonna have transcended being the "in" thing. This is why they are legends. Icons. Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Debbie Harry, Cher, Streisand, etc..these sorts of people don't need to be the "in" thing. The hard work's been done. All the legends of the past and those still living..is Pacino suddenly a bad actor because he has not had a decent movie in ages? What about Newman, etc? It's a nonsense perpetuated by people that have nothing to say but spew and spread their ignorance.

It is the job of the current "in" people to make an impact like their predecessors so that when they too are 46, people will still fork out 100's of dollars and pounds to go and watch them sing or perform on stage. Will 750,000 people in 50 shows go and watch Beyonce, Xtina, britney, Justin, Nerd, eminem etc when they are 46? Will we still be talking about them when they are 46? Will they even still be in the creative process? I don't know. Time will tell. Till then, I have no tolerance for this ageist and sexist madness..to put legends like Madonna and Dylan to pasture because all of a sudden they are not the "in" thing. The problem lies with the moron who is only interested in the "in" thing. Not with the people who are going about being who they are or evolving as we must.

My point is this, your 4 points seem like you are explaining yourself for liking Madonna to a person who not even the Church rats at St Pauls cathedral would come out to look at if he were made out of cheese. He may be the off spring of a soccer mom hence his bitterness and obsession with this "soccermom" business. Look around the site. Read his posts. This sounds like a drug addict in severe need of help. All his posts are a cry for help.

Enjoy your next show if you are going for one Ihateoreilly. You don't need to apologise to anyone for enjoying Madonna. There are a million and one things to enjoy about the incredibly creative and talented person that she is. She's always been a person you either love or hate:) Everybody must be criticised. Nobody is perfect. She is not above criticism.BUT there is criticism and there is criticism. When it is clear to any sensible person that this "critic" is compeltely off the rails, they deserve nothing but scorn in any response I choose to grace them with.

Those who get Madonna, love her. those who don't? Yah. whatever! Write a song about it. Your loss...moving swiftly on....

"...a cover of John Lennon's Imagine, competent but pointless considering the countless gems that could have been culled from her own catalog (Live to Tell, Oh Father, This Used to Be My Playground, Take a Bow)"...USA Today

Lomu, you can read this in today's edition of USA Today. What's your view on it? It's a long piece but this caught my eye. When I heard the rumor about Madonna covering "Imagine", I did not mind until I saw the set list for the show. "Imagine" took up space for wonderful renditions of "Live to Tell" or any of the gems USA Today have mentioned. In protest, I may use that time to stock up on drinks when I attend the Worcester shows. Live To Tell should have been on the set list or at the very least "Oh Father". She has several melancholy songs she could have picked if that was the purpose of choosing "Imagine" for the acoustic part of the concert.

I have some gossip. The show dates were released one by one. An insider had warned me not to panic because more dates would be released. Apparently Madonna was very angry in 2001 when she found out that brokers were charging people triple the face value of the tickets and making money off her. The inside scoop is that they decided to release the shows one by one knowing the scalpers would use connections to grab all the tickets in the hopes of making a mint on ebay. Once that was done, she threw on extra dates. That is why we have single venues having 4 to 6 dates. The brokers have been out swindled. This brings me personal satisfaction because until this tour I have always bought tickets for any major acts through scalpers and brokers. I have spent a fortune. It was satisfying to see someone who bore this in mind and went about setting it straight. Selfish as Madonna is, she did it for her own purposes. The benefits do fall on the concert goers and we can still be grateful.

Madonna did an incredible job of screwing over the scalpers. The scalpers were giving away $300 tickets for $25 by the end of the night. Some took this as a sign of Madonna's supposed "waning" fame. Truth is, however, she's filling up every venue. The shows that were supposedly sold out were actually 95 percent sold out. Ticketmaster tricked the scalpers by just releasing the rest of the seats. Yes, scalpers were selling tickets for 3x the price the last tour...but there were only a third of the tickets that are available now..trust me, her popularity is not waning. She's sure not the "in" thing now, but she's not a has-been either.

Sandra:

I guess you are right. I hate trying to explain to people why I like Madonna so much. If somebody doesn't like Madonna, I can understand. Perhaps they don't like her music. Perhaps they don't like her media image. Perhaps they liked her, but can't accept the fact that she has grown up and is not interested in being the provocative star she used to be. But it's the people, like Al Buger, who go out of their way to criticize Madonna that bother me. It's the people, like Fox News, or the New York Post, who printed completely FAKE information about the show in order to smear it before it started, that bother me. If you don't like someone, fine. Ignoring them is the better thing to do. Of course, I should be the last one to talk. I have a website: www.ihateoreilly.com that criticizes...well, you guessed it..Bill O'Reilly, the biggest news propagandist in History. Can't help it..I hate him and I am not a liberal either.

Descriptions of the show sound like it was not as cheesy as the pre-show hype. Thus y'all Madonna partisans can have a hissy fit about the evil New York Post or FNC suggesting these outrageous slanders!

Where did they GET all these very specific ideas from in the first place, though? I strongly suspect that this was fed purposely by Madonna- for which I will give her due credit for cleverness.

I've not bothered to read any of this kerfuffle, because it's all bullshit, really. But I did a nice business in bootleg T-shirts in the mid-80s with "Who's that Slut" T-shirts.

Now if Mags would do a "Who's That Slut" tour, and the tickets were reasonable, I might attend. Oh, and the ugly slag would also have to perfrom some music worth lightning to.

This is a desperate attempt to hype her failed album.

Bob A. Booey: "I know you don't know much about psychology, but "I have a Madonna Complex" isn't cute or funny since there's NO SUCH THING. There's an Oedipus complex and an Electra complex in Freud. There is no Madonna friggin complex. It's not a clever pun because that phrase doesn't exist."

Actually, it's a pretty common psychological disorder. I'm no expert, but I think it has something to do with a husband confusing his relationship to his wife with some unresolved fixation on his mother, commonly manifesting after the birth of a first child.

I always liked a couple of Madonna's songs, but I never was as enthusiastic about her as some here have expressed. I can imagine the joy of the faithful though. So, have at it!

Dan, I hate to quibble, but that's a pop psychology reference at best. As far as I'm aware of, there is no clinical term in any legitimate psychology literature about a "Madonna complex." The projection of object fixation you talk about would fall under Oedipal dynamics, if anything. But people in psychology and even psychoanalysis don't really use things like Oedipal complexes anymore; Freud's mythological references are a little played out.

Find me a legitimate textbook or case study or scholarly work written by an MD (not some quack "love doctor" psychologist) and I'll concede that such an inane phrase has seeped into the literature. But you're not right.

Sandra: you're awfully obsessed with me. It scares me. It's ok to write TO me and not in the third person, stalker. Your entire post is directed at me and you write an AWFUL lot for someone who claims to disagree with everything I say and chalks it up to me being "off the rail" and on drugs since I (gasp) don't think Madonna's infallible and perfect in her old age. Blasphemy!

A couple of notes in response to your pointless arguments. First, Al Pacino IS a bad actor now. He just grunts and screams and has no nuance. He WAS great in the 1970s and 1980s and then he became a caricature of himself. That's actually a really apt analogy to Madonna's career that you just made and you weren't even aware of it. Secondly, you're right that Madonna will be remembered as an icon when the history of our pop culture of the past 20 years is written. No argument from me. She just isn't in touch with the culture anymore. She's lost in all her wealth and bad ideas and self-indulgence. Third, Debbie Harry is irrelevant and pathetic. Blondie just released a new album to yawns and she's tried desperately to resurrect her career the past several years to no avail. She was hot once and was a better singer than Madonna, but I'd definitely put Madonna up with Marilyn before I'd put Debbie Harry even if Blondie was edgier and more truly innovative in every respect. Fourth, you've revealed how out of touch and boring YOU are. The uptight right-wing Catholic thing doesn't surprise me at all. Streisand? You've gotta be kidding me. You've lost all credibility and dated yourself. Talk about self-obsessed, talentless, boring, and pandering. Babs? Go repent to your soccer mom yenta maker. Elvis had a great, unique voice and that's why his legend will never be approached by any of the others you list in the history of music.

A funny thing about this "Re-Invention" tour: Madonna's a smart old broad (unlike you and your friends here). She knows what's up. She realizes it's all been done and that she's run out of skins to shed. In the past, she wouldn't TALK about re-invention, she'd do it. And shock you in the process. Now she's asking the audience to re-invent THEMselves and calling the tour "Re-invention." That's called anxiety. Whenever you want to project something you aren't, you adopt that label. Ever see a really lame TV ad for some boring product that tells you to "Challenge conformity. Break all the rules. Buy our carbonated, sugary death"? This is no different. Innovation has finally become just another product and abstraction rather than a reality in Madonna's marketplace. She doesn't do; she says. She doesn't provoke; she sells. She's finally become a fake rebel who doesn't understand the pop culture she always manipulated so brilliantly in the past.

Dylan's always been a fake rebel.

That is all.

Glad you took no offence, Ihateoreilly. You don't have to go out of your way to add a snide comment even as a Madonna fan just so the nay sayers may think you are being objective. I am a Madonna fan and have been one from the very beginning:) I make no apologies. If she deserves to be criticised, like the God Awful acting in Swept Away, then so be it. Many were extra harsh but that display was a travesty.

I just see no reason to tolerate imbecilic rants like some we see on this site. Now, the person who criticised the woman before the show even started does not even have the integrity to say he made a mistake. Instead, he comes in here unashamedly and suggests that perhaps Madonna herself put those stories in the hands of FNC. LOL. I mean, imagine that! I expected nothing else from a man the calibre of Al Barger. Everyday he confirms my view of him. Like she needed to sell any tickets. By the time these false articles were printed, the tickets were long gone. They thought they could do the American Life thing where they talked so bad about the Album that by the time it came around the reviews had already been set in stone. They have failed in a big way this time. There was/is no need for hype.

I was reading so many positive reviews(Rolling Stones, Variety, etc) I started hyperventilating. I am not used to that. Give me bitter biased negative jealous rants. As a Madonna fan that's my meat and drink:) Thankfully, somebody sent me the NYpost Article..lol. Phew! Back on track. I can breathe easy now. It was getting dicey for a minute there. It was all too sensible and reasonable. The NYpost and L.A times certainly helped calm me down.

Another headless chicken then wonders in here and talks about selling Tshirts and how he hasn't bothered to read but this is a desperate attempt to push a failing Album. I mean, where do they make these types of people? Probably in one of those middle belt little villages in America, population 2,000. Enlightened people can not be so ignorant and closed-minded. The majority of the show is her body of work. I am sure if she gave a toss about promoting AL she would have added more tracks off it. Quote" Do I need an Album to promote? Don't people need a show to go to?" end of quote.

You all disprove your comments. If Madonna is such an irritant to you guys, you wouldn't start topics about her or spend the amount of time you do on her. Thanks for playing but go learn HOW to play.

Lomu, I'm thinking that when she gets to TEXAS with all the anti-Bush imagery and comments, booos will be abound..LOL. Can't wait. The nay sayers who are dying to write something negative must be dreaming of the Texas leg of the tour:)

Fox News ran a big story on what a huge failure the tour is and that Madonna is only doing it because she's going bankrupt. They said the audience booed her all the way through and that the show has received nothing but awful reviews. See..Madonna is OVER!

Fox News ran a big story

Enough said.

From CNN:

An estimated 750,000 people are expected to see 39 shows scheduled for the U.S. and Canadian leg of her tour, with most of the shows reportedly sold out.

Madonna's "Drowned World" tour in 2001 grossed $55 million from 28 shows in 12 cities, ranking No. 6 on top U.S. tours for that year, according to concert trade magazine Pollstar.

(If only I could be as 'OVER', as someone who ranks 6th in concert sales for a year).

FOX NEWS IS A LAUGH! They know she's anti-Bush and can't stop her..the next best thing is to make up lies, distort the truth, and try to take away her credibility. Isn't Fox News the same network that claims that anybody who is against the war is UnAmerican?

Fox news hates any strong woman, whether it is Madonna or Hillary Clinton. They worship women like Ann Coulter or Dr. Laura who goes around toting the benefits of being docile to her man.

"An estimated 750,000 people are expected to see 39 shows scheduled for the U.S. and Canadian leg of her tour."

I don't care if you like Madonna, but this numbers thing only means that she's popular. It doesn't mean that she's a good musician.

750,000 is the number of Big Macs sold during a typical lunch hour.

750,000 cans of Coors beer are sold every weekend in America.

750,000 people watch reruns of Full House every day.

On a typical weekday, 750,000 people use the term "24/7" and think they're really cool.

Every hour in the U.S., 750,000 people make a right turn without using their turn indicator.

Every day in California, 750,000 people waste money on lottery tickets.

In a typical summer month, 750,000 people will rent a movie that features Pauly Shore.

(Well, OK, that last one I just made up. It's probably more like 75).

Ad infinitum....

Numbers alone don't provide a very convincing argument.

Uh, BoomCrash, Baby- You're saying that ANN COULTER promotes female docility? Damn, brother, but I'd hate to see your idea of an aggressive take-charge woman.

no, I said 'goes around' which implies the singular, rather than 'go around' which would imply both. That was a reference to Dr. Laura alone.

The reason they worship Ann Coulter is because she is really Tucker Carlson with a wig on.

My posting of that CNN comment was to show that she was popular and that she isn't OVER as was claimed. I made no comment about her talent. Thanks then, Duane for agreeing with me.

My pleasure, BCbaby. I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said. Just wanted to attempt, for the 58th time, to draw the distinction for the diehard Madonnuts.

Boom, on what basis do you compare Ann Coulter to Tucker Carlson? He's a pantywaist little nancy boy- just the kind of effete mushy MOR "conservative" that she hates.

Most rabid conservatives are self-hating, Al.

(She only hates him because she wishes she was that pretty.)

Did you know Robert Novak was Bay Buchanan with her mask off?

Ok..onto politics...I understand why Fox News was created; the general news media in the United States slanted to the left. But Fox News, instead of being objective, has turned to the FAR right (the rest of the media only slants left). They try to undermine anybody who is against Bush.

Boom, you made a fairly sweeping statement about the psychology of "rabid conservatives." It seems completely unfounded. For starters, Ann Coulter seems to like herself pretty much, thank you.

Now, I've got a minor in psychology from Ball State, so I can speak as an expert on the internal states of people I know only as media figures. On that basis, your Michael Moore jumps right out as a highly shame-based character.

Then there's Ted Kennedy. Yowsa!

Now perhaps a gay man would think Tucker Carlson was hot and Ann Coulter not, but among heterosexual men she is recognized as TOTALLY HOT. You may disagree with her politics, as I sometimes do, but you can't deny that she is Miss Thing.

Plus, Coulter is far more interestingly shocking and provocative than Madonna ever was.

Madonna may be a better dancer, though.

Al,

You have really creeped me out now. Ann Coulter is Miss Thing? First of all, she's in her late 30s/early 40s and has clearly hit the wall. More like Ma'am Thing. I like my women thin but she's anorexic and her neck has started to wrinkle. She clearly smokes too much (which may explain the emaciated appearance), looks haggard, has sunken eyes and a terrible, manly voice. She's d