"Another problem is that in Britain, the legal drinking age is 18, which may just be proving too young an age at which to trust that people will drink responsibly."
this maybe true, but the purveyors of alcohol have to be more concerned about underage drinking than making money before it will have an affect. I am 21, and i can tell you that when i was 16, it was incredibly easy to get served in almost any bar, pub or club in my home town (nottingham)
I udnerstand that, especially these days, it can be difficult for the owners of these places to be sure everyone served is of legal age. But there is a difference between trying and actively turning a blind eye, which IMO and IME is what happens all too often. it is also an issue i haven't seen really tackeled anywhere that talks about our binge-drinknig culture - when it is, it is made out to be a small problem, no big deal, just a few kids who look older than they are. This is of course utter bollocks, almost everyone i knew in my year went out at least sometimes when they were 16, and a sizeable proportion of my year were drinking before then, although only semi-regularly. And this isn't kids in some stereotypical "trouble spot", it was more out of boredom and the view that it is a good social event to join in with. I myself try not to binge drink, and i have not got to the point where i *need* to drink for any reason, but i would "hazard a guess" that the widespread blind-eye-turning to underage drinking in this country is at least a very big part of the problem.
Heh, i wonder what'd happen if we were to legalise marijuana here - would we turn instead into a nation of dopesmokers rather than binge drinkers?

If the only sport to watch on TV was soccer in my country, hell, I'd be binge drinking too.....

Chris, we get tennis, golf and cricket. We also have some of the best golfing courses in the world. St Andrews is in Scotland last I checked. That is Great Britain. The superbowl of tennis..Wimbledon..is slam bang in London. Soccer is the most watched but it's not the ONLY. You guys love your baseball, we love our soccer..but you've got the NBA and hockey and we've got cricket(which I hate) and tennis, badminton, snooker..actually we like our racquet sports. Even squash.

Anyway, that's not important.

It's quite simple, lock'em up to sleep it off. I don't know why a mountain is being made out of a mole hill. They hang around and fall all over the place. Their worst crime being vandalism. Put more coppers on the streets and once you see a drunk and disorderly constituting a public nuisance in the early A.M , loke him or her up till the next morn and feed them eggs:) before you let them out of the slammer.

But I will never support increasing the drinking age to 21. With all that starts at 21 in America, 14 year olds are still shooting friends and teachers in schools. That's a far bigger issue than what age people are allowed to drink. We all know anybody under the legal age who wants to drink, WILL still drink, somehow, some way.

Sandra,

I doubt the British Binge Drinking Club are swinging the racquet down at Wimbeldon. No, I think it's the soccer fans. And since soccer is so boring, what else do they have to do? Why binge drink, of course!

Personally, I think they should speed up the game a bit. Perhaps play it indoors. What you need to do is start an Arena Soccer League, complete with cheerleaders and pop stars at halftime. Maybe play loud rock music during lulls in the game, There would be so many goals scored, who would have time to go buy a beer? AND YOU MUST OUTLAW SMOKING IN THE ARENA!

And when you name these teams, don't bore the populace with such silly banners like the Manchester Gents or Kent Blues. Think exciting! The Outlaws, or The Desperadoes, or The Thunder! That'll catch their attention......

The solution to binge drinking is simple - improve the dreariness of the dull game of soccer.

"And since soccer is so boring..."

Yeah, its more boring than baseball or basketball, or football...

sure. right.

well tek, why isn't soccer bigger in this country?

i've been hearing for years about how it's the 'sport of the future'.

i can appreciate the skill involved and all, but it's all defense. a little like hockey slowed down to 1/4 speed.

...but why i personally can't get into it has always perplexed me. heck, i can watch golf and baseball and love every minute of it.

Thanks mark, very important issue and you are right that the only way to rally tackle it is for the society to make up its mind that it is uncool and will no longer be tolerated. The mood changed an awful lot here around the end of the '80s, and included raising the drinking age everywhere to 21. Kids will still be able to get it, but it does make a big difference for the law to say no. They will have to really crack down in the pubs as well - here they are very serious about underage drinking in bars and have cut it way down with heavy enforcement and penalties for serving underage.

I DJ'd in clubs, bars and at colleges all through the '80s and saw the dramatic changes up close.

Ms. Tek,

Now if soccer had the good marketing sense to cover the field with one huge spider web, a la baseball the weekend Spiderman 2 opens, wouldn't the world just be a better place?

We need more sports in our culture, not less! Once you get that through your angry young head, you will feel a sense of inner peace.....

"well tek, why isn't soccer bigger in this country?"

"i can watch golf and baseball and love every minute of it."

i can watch golf and baseball and love every minute of it.
GOLF IS LESS BORING THAN SOCCER??!!

1. Personally, I hate watching sports. I would rather play them.

2. Because soccer isn't popular in the US, that makes it boring? There are lots of thing which are not popular in the US yet are popular in other places in the world, does this mean that the rest of the world is wrong? Perhaps part of the reason why soccer isn't popular here is because our player suck at it, there is no real investment in the franchise therefore no real exposure to it. Our US women's team kicked ass a few years ago and no one gave a shit because 1- they were women and 2- it was soccer.

Basically, it is mostly the stereotypical American attitude that say that if something isn't popular in America then it must be no good.

American style football just isn't catching on in the UK. The NFL was doing a huge push in Europe last year with all of their european teams. It just wasn't flying because to the Europeans, football is boring.

Most the world would say that American beer sucks (and I would have to agree with them). But a lot of Americans buy and drink the swill. Does that mean that American beer really sucks or that maybe Americans have different tastes...

Of course, I could then argue that the common American has NO taste and that American beer does in fact taste the way that horse piss smells... But that would just be an opinion now, wouldn't it?

lol.....Ms. Tek, you are in rare form today.....:)

Basically, it is mostly the stereotypical American attitude that say that if something isn't popular in America then it must be no good.

no,no...this isn't what i meant.

i don't give a shit if it's popular here or not...i was just wonder WHY it's not...as well as wondering why i don't like it when i can easily watch sports with far less action.

and you're right about beer if you're talking about the bud/miller thing.

I'll try to get serious as I am bored off my ass at work today.....

Eric's Comment #7 hit the nail on the head. I did not know 18 and up was the drinking age in England. If so, raising it to 21 would do wonders. Yes, there will always be some kids with fake IDs, etc., able to get liquor, but it would absolutely cut down on youth drinking, which would in turn likely cut down on binge drinking. That would be a start, and if enforced by pub owners and law enforcement officials, crime would certainly drop......

ALL sports are interesting to watch if you understand them, and/or have a rooting interest, and/or know people playing. There is inherent drama in sport. I have spoken.

??? It's not the under 21s causing the problems over there. Hell, you have blokes who are 45 looking for a good smash up after the footie!

Ms. Tek,

??? It's not the under 21s causing the problems over there. Hell, you have blokes who are 45 looking for a good smash up after the footie!

It frightens me to realize Britain is the only country in the entire history of humankind in which gangs of drunk 45-year olds are preying upon the drunk and though timid youths of the neighborhood......sounds like a David Lynch nightmare to me......

Now that we're talking David Lynch, where in the Sam Hell (thank you Phillip) is Duke?! He would have some interesting insights into this subject matter.....

??? Who says they are looking for the youths? They are fighting with each other.

You go to a pub there and if the football is on you mark the exits and quick route out. Same for when the pubs close, you know how to stay out of trouble. The one thing I will say about the UK is that "swedgin" is more popular there than here.

But who can blame them. They have better beer so they drink more. ;)

Okay Ms. Tek,

Now that you have flexed that mighty British-Slang-Muscle, what do YOU think should be done to curb binge drinking and crime?

I think raising the drinking age to 21 (and enforcing it) would certainly be a step in the right direction, cutting down on binge drinking (popular among youths) and likely cutting down on the rising crime rate. Sure, you are always going to have a few ex-members of The Pogues looking for a scrape because, well, that's what broken down old ex-rock stars do.

But there would be a drop in crime, and I think it has been shown in the U.S. that raising the drinking age to 21 has been a positive move.

As for improving soccer, well hell - any game that has pale white streakers adorned in nothing but black dress socks being chased by bumbling Bobbies is ok in my book.....

Stop serving the florescent alco-pop crap that is popular there. It tastes like candy so you don't know how much you drink.

Raising the drinking age I am against. If you are old enough to go to war or get drafted, you are old enough to drink about it.

Also, they need to extend the pub hours. Most pubs in the UK close at 11 pm- midnight. Some nightclubs are open until 4 am but stop serving alcohol at 2 am. Because of the early hours, people SLAM drinks over there. If they kept the pubs open a bit longer, there would be more time to socialize instead of get off at work at 5 go home, get ready to go out, get ready to get kicked out.

HOOOOOOPPPPSSSSAAAAA!


Come on U R'ssssssssssssssss!!


QPR4ever!


Luv u Pearlyking!

I find myself applauding Ms Tek. I am not surprised by Mark's comment however.

Soccer is the most popular sport in THE ENTIRE WORLD except America. Who do you think cares about baseball other than you guys and the Cubans? I mean, really. Ofcourse, you have a select grp in each country but from Africa to Asia to Europe..the whole world, including the end of it somewhere in Australia;) Soccer is Big. It's a shame you guys don't get it. However, I am not sure we worry too much that you don't get it..LOL.

You have no excuse Mark because you started your sentence with.."THEN why is it not popular over here(America)" like something has to be popular in America before the whole world can love it. It's like your baseball championships...only you guys play it, YET you call it the BASEBALL WORLD championships..LOL.. Which other Country are you playing against might I ask?..

As for the drinking, I write as there is just breaking news about a shooting in a highschool in Maryland..don't worry about the binge drinking..the British are lager louts.

The drinkers will drink regardless of the age limit... The bigger problem is how we make sure our students dont adopt this problem you guys have of the young shooting themselves.. We've already had one slight racially motivated incident, we don't want it to become the norm like it is over your end.

If drunk lay abouts is our curse, we'll take that over armed students any day of the week. Do you guys not have an age limit for who can own weapons??? Stopping them from becoming drunks but allowing them to become murderers, where is the sense in that??!

Chris, by the way, when we do sport we do sport. Everything is not Hollywood for us. The names are Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea and so on. They are ACTUAL PLACES, would ya believe it?! Shock Horror! We don't pull them out of the air willy nilly. It's not a western.

I'm sure the Detroit Tigers and Detroit Pistons sounds fabulously Hollywood but I think we prefer to name them after their home field and they all have nicknames anyway..we are able to memorise different names;)

Ms. Tek,

I'm a Shiner Bock man myself, and try to avoid fu-fu drinks that are indeed popular in some circles....including my fav pub on the moors - The Slaughtered Lamb.

I think extending the pub hours would do the exact opposite. There is already enough crime and drinking in Olde England. Extending the club hours would be akin handing out handguns to deter crime. "If everyone has a gun, then criminals will be less likely to commit crime."

On the contrary, you would see crime increase, just as it would if you extended the pub hours. We all love a trip to New Orleans and Las Vegas (where they do not have non-alcohol hours), but the crime rate is also higher in those cities. In New Orleans, much higher. I don't know if they play Futbol in those cities, but I very much doubt it.....You would be decreasing the quality of life and creating generations of alcoholics.

Sure, there are personal freedoms that should not be taken away. But when the populace is abusing those freedoms, restrictions must be applied for the betterment of all.....

lol....Sandra I had hoped you were snoozing away at this hour......

In all truthfulness, my posts on soccer were delivered with tongue planted firmly in cheek.....:)

As for school violence, that is not really the issue here. This is not a Britain versus US pissing contest.....and I think youth violence is something that is becoming more and more international, I'm not sure that problem (and the same applies to alcoholism) is distinctive to any one country......

I am still wide awake..:) Infact, on my way out. It is a Friday night afterall. Plus, as we all know, the sooner I get to the club, the better, seeing as there shan't be any alcohol served after 2am. Actually, where I'm going we've got an extra 30 minutes to drink away:) Don't worry. I shan't be falling about. I maintain an impeccable sense of awareness when drunk in public places. In private? All bets are off:)

I know it is not a pissing contest. I don't mean to imply any anti-American sentiment. I am addicted to one who is partly from your side of the Atlantic as it is. So, fret not. All for one, one for all;)

I am also aware the topic is not about school violence. However, I chose to mention it because in America and probably other countries we seem to put extra effort into things that are not as damaging as the things we put little or no effort into. You haven't answered. What IS the age limit for owning weapons your side of the Atlantic?

Will read your response, if you respond, tomorrow.

most subsequent posters here seem to have entirely missed my point. I had n form of fake ID when i was sixteen, but it was absolutely no trouble to get into most bars/pub/clubs in town. Known tactics were to go in a group of 3+, go in a group where one of you was 6 foot+ tall, or to go in pairs where there was one girl and one guy, even if you weren't even friends, as the bouncers seem to have a soft spot for girls of any age. I know it's still like this, bcos every time i go out i see many kids that are 16 (or possible even younger) in the clubs and bars and pubs. Until more attention is paid to underage drinking in this country we will always have a big problem with binge drinking bcos, when you're underage, drinking as much as you can without getting caught is just so cool.

sorry, that "n" should be "no"
i had no form of fake ID, although i was aware of how it coul possibly be made. if you got ID'd, you went somewhere else. Trust me when i say you never needed to try more than three places in a row to get in anywhere.

The R`s are going up!!

WE R QPR

Sandra,

I am the son of school teachers, but for the life of me I have not a clue as to the youngest age of gun ownership in my country. I have never owned a gun nor have my parents, so I know not. I could probably look it up, but if I had to venture a guess, I would say 18, though would hope 21.......

I only watch soccer when it's the World Cup. What can I say? I'm a nationalist...

And the US tream doesn't suck; in fact, they beat Portugal and Mexico handily last time around...

And the US tream doesn't suck; in fact, they beat Portugal and Mexico handily last time around...

Rolls eyes

Being ranked 11th does not cut it in soccer. Sorry.

On the other hand, the USA women are #2. ;o)

As far as baseball. Baseball is very popular in Japan- but we never play Japan so the "World Series" is a joke. We play Canada... so what?

Kent, you are assuming that Brits are like us- they speak English but a Brit is NOTHING like a Yank. As a matter of fact, a Scot is way different than a Welshman or an Englishman or Irishman. The pub culture is ever so slightly different too. Not as big as the difference between the US and the UK but still different none the less.

The age is not why people are acting up. Another think to consider is: is the population rising? Its declining in Scotland but I'm not sure about England. If you have more people then you will get more incidents.

The British like to have fun. I personally find British men to be more obnoxious than most when they drink but that is just me. Two quick observations:

Was in Coiumbra in Portugal about 11 pm having some wine in an outdoor cafe (OMG, was that a beautiful place an a perfect night). Everything was calm and nice until this large group of boozed up English folks showed up. They were loud. They were obnoxious, they were also slightly insulting. The median age of that group - 45 to 50. Both males and female though it was the males acting like asses.

In Amsterdam, if you see the cops coming, the vast, vast, vast, majority of the time, its because the English or Scots are acting up in the pub and fighting. They go over to Amsterdam and go mental. Most Americans who go to Amsterdam for the pot and not to party. In the UK, people go to Amsterdam for both a holiday (which involves copious amounts of alcohol) AND/OR for the pot. As you well know, potheads don't bother anyone but the drinkers do.

Its not an age thing at all. Its a British thing. Every time I've had a run-in in Europe BESIDES the jealous bitch in France who decided to do something which backfired on her big time, it has been with a drunk English bloke... I didn't even have problems in Ireland. When I did, it was an English guy who grabbed me.

Pubs are NOTHING like bars. The drinking culture in the UK is not similar to the US. Of course, I like it there save for the early hours and so long as I have a bunch of friends with me and I don't go to the toilets alone.

RJ Elliot: And the US tream doesn't suck; in fact, they beat Portugal and Mexico handily last time around...

Sandra:..and the great Sampras lost to George Bastl in the second round of Wimbledon. A player who he should beat even in Bastl's own backyard let alone in Pistol Pete's home away from home. Point being, The US men's soccer team DOES suck but it is the nature of sports that every now and then the strangest things happen. Like you guys beating Portugal. You have some decent individual players but all in all, the world being right, you should be losing atleast 10-nil to Portugal:) But that's why we love sports, the underdog always stands a chance.

Chris, with your approval of 21 yrs of age being when you think the go ahead should be given, what do you reckon you knew at 21 that you did not know at 18?

Ms Tek, English blokes are obnoxious when they are drunk. I agree with you there. Where are you hanging out when you travel? The lager louts travel with cheap airlines like Ryan Air and often constitute a nuisance of themselves wherever they go. It's the sensible thing not to go to any of the popular resorts cos that's where they go.

Loud? The Americans are louder even without drink. No matter where you are, if there is an American there, you will know it. It's almost deafening.. They can not be softly spoken at all. I can't imagine what they sound like when they are drunk. However, I don't think you guys have as many drunken louts as we have. Drinking is not your burden. I think it's eating that is the major problem over there.

Ms. Tek,

Just so you know, your solution to the drinking/crime problem in England will be the last solution even remotely put into use over there. Your personal experience tells you otherwise. My personal experience tells me that the first English bloke who tries to open the bars for longer periods of time to cut down on drinking/crime will get kicked out on his ass in a Chelsea minute......

Sandra,

I was a idiot when I was 18, and less of an idiot when I was 21.....Each year I am comfortably discovering that, while still an idiot, I become less and less of one......:)

Look, everybody knows Kick-boxing is the sport of the future.

As for the drinking age, the aggravating factors are limited, unpredictable hours, and raised age laws.

Raising the age will just lead to worse problems. When I lived in Montreal, where the legal age is 18, we used to get flooded with college students from New York State and Vermont for massive binges of underage drinking.

The booze laws in Ontario used to be really restrictive, and now they are more rational, the binge abuse has declined, plus fewer problems with boozecans.

Restricting by age and availability has nothing to do with responsibility.

i re-iterate, one final time, my point (and this from my real-life experience over the past 5 years, which goes back to when i was 16)
"...i would "hazard a guess" that the widespread blind-eye-turning to underage drinking in this country is at least a very big part of the problem."
-> until the clubs and bars here are prepared to take proper responsiblity to ensure that they don't serve anyone who's underage, and in fact actively turn a blind eye to underage drinking, we will have a problem with binge drinking.

Jadester: "Heh, i wonder what'd happen if we were to legalise marijuana here - would we turn instead into a nation of dopesmokers rather than binge drinkers?"

It's really odd how this entry inspired a discussion about soccer; although, suffice to say, my heart belongs to baseball ...

Anyway, Jade, I have no problem with marijuana whatsoever; I do not believe any soft drug to be, and I would love to see them legalized. Please see this entry of mine for full clarification of my position on drugs. I'm sure you were just being facetious, but I don't want anyone to think I'm a prohibitionist.

You might want to look at this link

Or this link.
Or this link.

Wanna tell me again that "[my] solution to the drinking/crime problem in England will be the last solution even remotely put into use over there."?

I'm not British like Sandra but I spend enough of the year there to kind of have a clue as to what is going on in politics there for a yank.

Sandra, when I travel, I don't go to resorts. I stay with my friends and go to their "locals". I used to travel mostly for business but have made a lot of personal friends over the years. The idea of a "resort" doesn't sound like much fun to me. I like to be with the "everyday" people.

I've never been to Blackpool and when in Amsterdam, I know of a few joints that apparently are still safe from the "partiers".

And no offense, but I think British drunks are pretty damn loud. Then again, aren't all drunks?

Mark, i was merely pondering. I added the "heh" because
1) i don't think marijuana is likely to be legalised here in the near future. Possibly in a decade or two, or at least within my lifetime (assuming i live to be about 70). it also, of course, depends on the government's alignment - i couldn't see the conservatives allowing legalisation of marijuana if they're the party in power
2) i actually believe there are a hell of a lot of people in the uk, well england at least, who smoke pot on a semi-regular basis. i don't mean just students either - as a stereotype, i've found it does have some base in truth, but back in my home town i know a substantial proportion of the odler adults are also partial to the odd joint. Not full-on-jay-and-silent-bob-style, natch, otherwise they'd all be jobless.

Ms. Tek,

I read the link and am frankly amazed. But a las, I am Texas-bred where we have strict laws in place about times to drink etc....and the laws seem to work here. Never-the-less your proof is hard to argue.

I still believe that opening the pubs 24-hours a day is a very poor idea to stopping binge drinking and the crime that results from it. And am stunned that anyone would try to enact such a rule, unless they were going after the blue collar support, of course.

If such a rule is enacted in England, then we shall see the results. If it works, only then will I accept such a rule.......but your links have proven your point.

LOL

SEE!

I TOLD you that I don't talk out of my ass! ;)

Speak for yourself. I have talked out of my ass for years and am quite proud of it......:)

After a 3-1 away from home win over Sheffield today, Queens Park Rangers moves up to Division 1 ! There seems to be lots of talk about lots of drinking. Soccer...drinking, hmmmmm.

QPR4ever

i suppose on the bright side, if anyone ever tried to invade england, we might be able to drive them off simply by harnessing our hooligans. or offering them free beer if they drive the invaders out of the country.

i suppose on the bright side, if anyone ever tried to invade england, we might be able to drive them off simply by harnessing our hooligans. or offering them free beer if they drive the invaders out of the country.

I am certain that hordes of inebriated, foul-smelling hooligans fighting beneath England's colors would make any self-respecting British resident swell with patriotic pride......

maybe not, but it would surely make any self-respecting invading force pee their pants and quake in their boots.

The answer is sobriety and it starts with admitting there is a problem.

AA: "The answer is sobriety and it starts with admitting there is a problem."

I'm wondering whether that's a joke, but just in case it's not ....

Despite the fact this probably isn't really the appropriate forum for an AA lecture and that not all heavy drinkers are alcoholics, do you really think that wandering around some of the depressed housing estates of England urging people to start attending 12-step meetings instead of getting out on the squirt on Fridayu and Saturday nights would really work.

Have you ever been to any of these places?

For Americans who haven't, to get an idea of what they're like, try South central LA for white folks, but with the added misery of smaller houses, English weather and crap food.

Beer and a fight are probably the only things that break the monotony.