"Has come"? I finally heard the guy try to sing on the Jimmy Kimmel Live tonight. Ewww! Kimmel has a message for you guys: The only reason John Stevens is on American Idol is because he is white. Stop it! He is embarrassed. Rightly so.

And, Elton John says. . . I'll let you find out for yourself.

John Stevens gotta go, otherwise arghhhh I just couldn't stand it anymore. He's got to go!

I wonder how those who claim the AI voting is "racist" (including Sir Elton) account for the fact that Ruben Studdard won last year over whiter-than-white Clay Aiken, or, for that matter, how the demographics of the final six--three blacks, two whites, and one Filipino--indicate widespread racism among voters.

Although my first reaction upon hearing Jennifer was gone was "racism," the bottom line is she had demographics against her: clearly the three divas, even though they are the most talented performers, split a similar fan base (white, black, otherwise, doesn't matter), as evidenced by the fact that they were the bottom three last week. In retrospect, it is clear that one of them had to go mathematically.

Excellent analysis of last night's show - I agree with every single judgment, and while I have to give John credit for his character, his voice is horrifying. PLEASE let it be him to go this week.

You might want to open your eyes and look at the low vote getters. (One of whom is gone now I gather.) Who, Elton John and other persons in a position to know say are also the three most talented. The chances of all three of them being voted low in the absence of discrimination are nil. A statistical model correlating the supposed criteria of the show and race would show that. Meanwhile, I know people who gargle more musically than the pasty, funny-faced white boy sings. The white people who are keeping him on the show could not care less about talent.

As for Ruben Stoddard winning, there are always exceptions. There were a few thousand free Negroes in 1830, but that didn't mean squat over all. What will you say next, that slavery wasn't really a problem because there were free people of color? Genocide of the Indians isn't a problem because you saw a drunk Sioux in Boston Friday? Women couldn't have been really resentful of not being allowed to vote because they kept marrying men the whole time? You crack me up sometimes.

Furthermore, we've seen the calls to vote based on bigotry because I posted a thread about the AI forums. Apparently, they represent the thinking of substantial numbers of folks who do vote. Heck, some of those people may get the idea from those forums or others that reflect similar biases. The longer the show is on, the more the word 'vote white' spreads and the more likely biased voting is to to occur. Perhaps a tipping point has occurred so that African-American contestants have a built-in negative vote. Previously, it may have been easier for a black contestant to win.

Let's talk some statistics.

The top 32 contestants this season were based solely on who the judges chose. Of those 32, 19 (60%) were white, 10 (31%) were black, and 3 (9%) were Filipino.

The top 12, chosen from the top 32 by a combination of the judges and the American public, were 50% white, 33% black, and 17% Filipino.

The top 6, chosen by the American public only, are 50% black, 33% white, and 17% Filipino.

So the percentage of whites in the group has shrunk from 60% based on the judges opinions only to 33% when the public got to vote. By contrast, the percentage of blacks has increased from 31% to 50%.

Four of the first five finalists to leave were white (the fifth was Filipino). Jenn Hudson was the first black singer to leave the show.

I don't think people are keeping John Stevens in, because he is white. There were other white people in the contest who were far far FAR better than he is but they are now gone. If people were voting solely for 'white', they could have picked a better white singer!

I think girls are voting for him because of his looks. He looks boyish and innocent. People seem to thrive on that innocence/character, see William Hung's new career for more info on that.

I think the 'three divas' were the best of the group, but I also agree that it was too much the same type of singer. One needed to go. Another will need to go before the final two.

When you get to the final two, the two left should be pretty distinctly opposite of each other (i.e. Clay and Reuben) musically in order to make a clear distinction on who you want to win. If they are similiar (i.e. two divas) then the winner is more likely the one who gave the best performance that night, rather than being the person who best fits the title American Idol.

Indeed, the cries of racism seem slightly overwrought given the voting history of American Idol. The primary problem is with the voting method. People vote for contestants, not against them, and it is easy for contestants who are similar in some ways to "split the vote" and lose. Perhaps after coming up with a better voting method for the show, the producers could turn their attention to American political elections? Never mind.

Note that the two Hawaiian girls, despite not being the two worst singers, both ended up in the bottom three the same week, and one was voted out. Since then, I don't think that the remaining Hawaiian girl has been in the bottom three again, though I could be wrong on that. This pattern has repeated itself many times in past years as well.

So now we have one "white" girl, one (Filipina) Hawaiian girl, one "white" guy, one "black" guy, and two "black" girls left. The two "white" kids will certainly do well because they're 16 -- apparently the same age as most A.I. "voters" according to the television demographics. I suspect that's the primary reason John and Diana are still around.

Fortunately, the producers of the show have looked beyond the raw votes in the past and signed contracts with some of the "losers" of past years, and I suspect that will happen again this year. Redhead-boy might do okay given Harry Connick Jr-style material, but anything else and he's lost. George Huff has an incredible voice and now that he has shaved the mustache, he actually looks the part of an American Idol, but he still looks just a little too old to win, even though he isn't. I think Fantasia has consistently been the best singer of the bunch, but she surprisingly didn't do as well as LaToya last night, so that's a concern.

As Simon (I think) said on a long-ago show, Fantasia never needed AI to succeed in the music industry anyway -- she is simply an incredible talent.

But why John Stevens? I was embarrassed for him. He is like William Hung, only no one has let him know. (Cute? I don't see it. My ex-longterm is a redhead, but not goofy looking like Stevens. Resembles David Caruso.) In the absence of race being the common denominator for negative votes, I don't see how he could still be present.

Scott, you are dodging the issue. It is not being in the pool that really matters. It is finishing. Employers sometimes try the same dodge in Title VII cases. They will say they did not discriminate because they interviewed women candidates or minority candidates. Tain't so. If there is a barrier to 'finishing' that correlates with gender or race there is still discrimination.

MD, I think age is the primary reason John is still there. And maybe personality. In any case, I hope he disappears tonight. He may have a great personality, but this is a singing competition first and foremost, and either Fantasia (despite last night's disappointment) or LaToya should win based on that.

Mac, if it is "finishing" that matters, than how can you discount Ruben winning out over Clay and the other white singers last season? Clearly, race is not a barrier to winning the competition.

I agree with Phillip that it is some combination of age/looks/personality that has kept John in the competition so far.

Outrage over last week's results should bring in enough votes for Fantasia & LaToya to keep them out of the bottom three, but that is not necessarily an automatic expulsion for John Stevens. Though I predicted he'll be the one to go in the original entry, it could just as easily be Jasmine or Diana.

Scott: I wouldn't be sad to see Diana go, either. The two youngest competitors are clearly out of their league here, though they might worth checking out in a couple of years.

Confession time: I am unnaturally drawn to Jasmine, and not just because she sings reasonably well. She's clearly outclassed by Fantasia and LaToya musically, but holds her own in the looks-and-personality department, and while I know it is wrong, I would vote for her if I were the voting type.

For that matter, I suppose I expect LaToya to win simply because her look is a little better than Fantasia's, despite my personal preference for Fantasia's style.

Mac Diva: I didn't mean that people were voting for John because he was cute (he's not), they were voting because of his innocence, like William Hung. People certainly aren't listening to She Bangs because of William's looks!

Interesting sidenote: on another thread awhile back, I said I didn't believe in gaydar. That it's just a matter of observation of people, anybody can have it, gay people might be more 'in tune' with observation but it isn't exclusive to us. However, I know gaydar is a term that people do use. (and I always thought I was someone to be 'in tune' with such observation).

So I was surprised last night though, when my partner mentioned that every time he sees George Huff, his gaydar hits the richter scale.

What I find hard to stomach about these discussions is how most of you can presume to have some OBJECTIVE power of judging these people based on singing talent. Someone being a "good singer" is not something you can quantify like that. John is a much better singer than Jasmine in my opinion, and the rest of you who aren't realizing that it IS about opinion are missing the point. Mac Diva, you seem to be basing your opinion that the voting is racist on a false premise: that John is a worse singer than all of the black contestants. That's not a FACT, it's an opinion based on your taste.

Based on what I've heard in this competition, there are three performers who I'd want to hear records by: George, Fantasia, and John. This has absolutely nothing to do with race. It has to do with how much I like their voices.

Also: nothing new here, Scott, but I disagree with your assessment of last night's performance. Foremost, I think it was a terrible show all around; I hate Gloria Estafan's music and I don't think even ONE of the contestants has a style that's even remotely compatible with that type of music. And this week suffered from the same thing the motown week suffered from: the contestants couldn't interpret the songs, because they were stuck singing with the band that played the original records. In other weeks performers are able to have arrangements made of the music, no matter what era or style it came from, that can at least give them a fighting chance of being entertaining.

That being said, i thought George did the best job with the material, and sounded great; I thought John was way better than Jasmine, and the rest I didn't think much of either way.

i want John Stevens to win it all because, oh my gawd, the commenters will go 'effin' crazy here on blogcritics.

more fun than the pirates thread, best guitarists and other 'mature' topics combined.

I, you are just plain wrong (if I'm being honest and keeping it real) with basically everything. there is - of course - such thing as objective evaluation of singing ability: is the singer on key, how clear and powerful is the voice, how fluid is the phrasing? These are all real and objective. Beyond that there are subjective matters of preference, but your man John falls flat on each of these objective fronts, has next to zero charisma, never "lives" in the song, has had exactly ONE solid performance (and he forgot words on tha one), and is a big red turd up there on the screen. People who vote for him are total, relentless idiots. Period.

Well put, Eric.

Thanks P

Couldn't have said it better myself Eric, I is just plain wrong to say it again. I is also making assumptions that viewers have no vocal or musical experience, I (as I'm sure many) do, and I can objectively review John's performances and let you know (as the judges and most message boards have) that he is just SO BAD it is horrifying that he is still on the show. He's still up there when people with OBJECTIVELY superior voices are not, that is not the point of the competition.

Just face reality Scott, you can't predict worth cr@p when it comes to AI.

Face it: Your precious FANTASIA will be off tonight.

You don't like it? Get over it. Fantasia fans don't vote the way other people's fans do. That's just life.

Don't forget how PATHETIC it was for Fantasia to keep mentioning Jennifer (3 times precisely) during her performance. She is DESPERATE to get Jennifer Hudson fans to vote for her instead of Latoya.

Everyone saw this desperation, and while you'd like to think the country loves Fantasia, most of America doesn't care for her. I hope you enjoy tonight's "Tribute to Fantasia Burrino."

When are they going to have Big Band night? We already had soul, motown, Elton John, and now Gloria Estefan...these are all genres picked so that John Stevens will do bad...look at how Stevens did in movie night: WONDERFUL. Give him a big band night (Which they did in season 1 of AI...don't forget that Gloria Estefan has been done before on AI before you start saying that AI should do repeats) and Fantasia will clearly go and Stevens will prove he has a great voice we all love.

Stevens fans don't like him because of looks or age. They want that CLASSIC voice that nobody else who has EVER even auditioned for American Idol, any season, has.

IS THAT SO WRONG? IS IT SO WRONG to not want another diva??????? Is it so wrong to want a guy who sounds AWESOME singing songs from the 40's and 50's?

Many people like that sound and YEARN to have that sound in mainstream music today.

Sorry, but I don't see ANYTHING wrong with that, and "America" doesn't either especially with JHud off last week and probably Fantasia tonight.

One quick note: Don't forget that Justin Guarini was a HUGE favorite to win AI1, and then when it came down to the final 6, 5 and so forth Justin plummeted.

Fantasia is AI Season 3's version of Justin. The overwhelming favorite going into the finals, but is turning into a huge bust. She'll be off tonight. Sorry Scott.

Excellent roundup again Scott. You are a very articulate and concise writer - it's like reading Eric :)

I feel sorry for John Stevens. He is trying his best and is clearly outmatched when he steps out of his very limited comfort zone. BUT, his success isn't some kind of white supremist movement, it's his age, his look and the underdog factor.

I thought last week's outcome was initially racist, but with futher analysis, clearly the issue is the fan base (lots of young girls) and the fact that he stands out for being so OBVIOUSLY goofy.

Jennifer will get a deal anyway, and I am sure John will finally be gone, and ultimately relieved.

He should be proud for having such a great attitude.

You can say whatever you want about Fantasia if you don't like her personally, but she is one of the only (in my opinion one of two) contestants left who A) has a solid, unique, and controlled voice and B) personality, she absolutely deserves to be up there until the final 2, she has performed consistently and brings something that four of the six left do not have like I said above, a unique personality. I hope we are not UPSET over a tribute to Fantasia tonight, but rather breathing a sigh of relief to John's tribute.

You can hope all you want, but the reality is that Fantasia will be off tonight.

Never mind Scott Pepper's prediction, since he has proved his predictions are utterly worthless (because he refuses to account for the voting method in his predictions).

LET THE BACKLASH AGAINST THE "DIVAS" CONTINUE! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

You are a very articulate and concise writer - it's like reading Eric :)

That's high praise indeed--thanks, Dawn!!!

Wow, "Fantasiasucks," you make SUCH a good point! I'm so happy that people like you exist who have absolutely no reasoning, logic, or sense with their voting/opinion and simply sit there and make an idiotic 12 year old statement like that "backlash against the divas?" - comical, at least you provided me with a laugh during a blah workday.

Eric said - I, you are just plain wrong (if I'm being honest and keeping it real) with basically everything. there is - of course - such thing as objective evaluation of singing ability: is the singer on key, how clear and powerful is the voice, how fluid is the phrasing? These are all real and objective.

No, Eric, you're mistaken. What you're talking about is whether a singer is technically proficient. You're talking about MEASURES of a voice, but I'm talking about someone's VOICE as a whole, as an expressive insrument, as a unique instrument, and as a subject of peoples' tastes. There are technically proficient singers who bore the hell out of me, and out of a lot of people, and there are singers for whom singing a whole song on key isn't a consideration but who, nonetheless, are appreciated by audiences. Pavarotti is one of the former; but here are some of the latter: Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Neil Young, Les Claypool, Dave Mustaine...

I'm not comparing John Stevens to these people; what I AM doing is drawing your attention to the fact that people like singers for reasons beyond your pigeon-holed, "objective" judgement.

Eric also said: Beyond that there are subjective matters of preference, but your man John falls flat on each of these objective fronts, has next to zero charisma, never "lives" in the song, has had exactly ONE solid performance (and he forgot words on tha one), and is a big red turd up there on the screen. People who vote for him are total, relentless idiots. Period.

Alrighty then. So long as we're both clear on the apparently inarguable truth of the fact of my own relentless idiocy, I guess everything's hunky dory.


So then Sasha said: I is also making assumptions that viewers have no vocal or musical experience, I (as I'm sure many) do, and I can objectively review John's performances and let you know (as the judges and most message boards have) that he is just SO BAD it is horrifying that he is still on the show.

Okay, so where did I make the assumption that the viewers have no vocal or musical experience? And what, exactly, does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that a large percentage of the viewing audience are trained vocalists? Are you arguing that people who are trained musicians are going to agree with the boundaries of the narrow little box that your "objective review" conforms to? And, finally, thank you SO MUCH for granting the rest of us peons the benefit of your background as a some-kind-of-musician-or-other in offering your objective condemnation of John's horrifying singing. Next time I hear him sing I'll be sure to be properly horrified.

I, I retract my "idiot" claim, I get a little carried away. But again I disagree: the people you named are eccentric and not "elegant" singers but they ALL CAN CARRY A TUNE. Poor John (whom everyone agrees is a nice guy and has taken the abuse very well), can go an entire song an barely hit a note - that's why they keep talking about "pitchy." I have no problem with the character of his voice, which is pleasant if weak, but the kid simply sings off-tune much of the time, has no power or sustain, awkward phrasing, and is simply not a very good singer.

I watched one performance this week and one performance last week. I find it utterly depressing that the best music they can get to have these kids perform karaoke to, includes both Barry Manilow and Gloria Estefan.

Next week, I want to see the hits of Air Supply.

I - I was not implying that I am superior to anyone that watches American Idol so if that came across that way, I apologize. You made a comment that determining a contestant's talent or ability is subjective and I was simply agreeing with Eric that there are objective aspects to vocal talent that can be "judged" either by the judges on the show and/or by the audience. The point of the show as it has been so frequently stated is to find the best SINGER, not the one that we WANT to be the best singer. It is a fact that John Stevens frequently is out of tune, period, if that sounds good to you then yes that is your SUBJECTIVE opinion, so go ahead and vote for him, obviously some people agree on that with you enough for him to still be there. I have NOTHING against John as a person and I agree with whoever previously said that he has been purely mature and gentlemanly about every criticism he has received, I simply think that better singers - unfortunately for the sake of the show - have been booted off before him.

It's questionable whether or not Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan can carry a tune. Come on, you gotta know what I mean there? Put one of those two in front of the Miami Sound Machine and they're going to be utterly unable to meet the pitch requirements of the song. And I'm not just talking about range; Johnny Cash had a lot of songs on a lot of albums where he's slightly flat, to say the least.

And I'm also kind of dumbfounded at the sudden turnabout here, at least on the part of the judges (I don't know if Sasha's thought this all along or not,) in regards to the show being a "singing contest." Simon's said VERBATIM countless times that it's not just a singing contest. He comments on peoples' outfits, personalities, and physical appearance ALL THE TIME. And now suddenly it's "a singing contest?"

I agree that it's not about who we WISH could sing better. It's about who people are going to buy albums by. Really, that's what it's about. And my arguments are geared in that specific direction: a phenomenal voice does not necessarily sell albums.

John CAN SING IN TUNE. He has trouble with styles that don't suit him, wherein he sings flat. When he sings songs that suit him, he sounds incredible. And I don't really CARE what he sounds like singing Motown or Gloria Estafan songs because if he makes an album it's NOT going to be full of those kinds of songs. (Unfortunately it probably won't be full of the kinds of songs I'd like to hear him sing, either, but I can always hope...)

And lest there's further confusion (I dunno, maybe all the confusion's on my part...) I know what "pitchy" means, I've been a musician for more than ten years. I know when he's not singing in key, but I ALSO know when Jasmine falls all apart halfway through a song, and I have trouble understanding why the judges act like she's better than him. She's as pitchy as he is, and she's boring, to boot. One other thing, so it's clear: my favorites, and those who've gotten the most votes from me, are George and Fantasia. They've got good voices, and they're fortunate enough that MOST of the categories have suited their styles (with the exception of last night, which was not good for anybody.)

I - I agree with you on several points you just made, there are plenty of successful artists/entertainers who don't have the best voices, hell Madonna even fits the bill. And yes, it is the "whole package" - ie a person who sings well but has zero personality should not win as much as a person with plenty of pizzaz but not much in the vocal department. I'll simply leave it at an "agree to disagree" state of our differing opinions on John Stevens, he obviously has plenty of fans I just don't see much talent and zero personality from him but that's me. I also agree, last night no one was phenomenal and
most likely because they were in front of the Miami Sound Machine and also trying to fit into a genre of music that did not allow them to really give their own twist or personality to the performances. I think Jasmine, Diana, and John are simply young and do not have the control over their voices and training that Fantasia, LaToya, and George all have (or at least have taught themselves) ...yet. So there you go, for what it's worth, I hope LaToya or Fantasia wins this thing, but as we've all learned...you never know with this darn competition.

Let's go back to what Steve (Boom) said. Can a gay contestant (let's assume
George is for the sake of discussion) win? If so, will there be a backlash? In regard to the obvious issue of how they would know a contestamt is gay, I've heard American Idol does background investigations.

Hey Scott -- way to go on the dead-on predictions this week! (Damnit.)

I don't think those of who are wondering about the race issue need to say much. The supporters of John Stevens, including the one who refuses to sign any name, are proving it is a factor for us.

Has anybody here actually called in and voted for any of these contestants this year?

I haven't.

Why?

Frankly I don't care who wins this season of American Idol, as I don't really like any of the remaining singers. John's voice is only interesting if you like the Rat Pack era. Jasmine is forgetable. Fantasia is just downright unlikeable, although she has one of the best voices of those left. Latoya is a good singer like Fantasia but she doesn't stand out like Kelly Clarkson or even Ruben or Clay did last year. Diana reminds me of Kelly Osbourne, but without the attitude and with a better voice. George seems like he is just too old, which was the original complaint, wasn't it? He is the most likeable of the group, but his voice is more geared toward a casino act than a star.

Assuming this is the talent pool, I think Simon's prediction that AI had maybe three years left (two after this one) is a good bet. Talent seems to be slipping and the show is starting to sour.

Maybe next season they'll mix AI with The Swan ... now there would be something!

LOL these comments about John Stevens...

oops.. im two years ahead!! hehehe