Imagine what he says about you, Al.

So in other words, the way to deal with Ho Chi Ming is to carpet bomb everything into submission in order to save it.

Yep, I'm sure it'll work this time.

I didn't call for "carpet bombing" anything. I'm talking about al-Sadr specifically, and his militia.

It doesn't matter what he says about US. We're right and he's wrong.

In case you're not aware, Sadr's father was murdered by Saddam, you remember him? So, why not put Saddam back in power, and you've solved your short term problem.

The US has created the same situation which existed in Lebanon. Create a power vacuum and people will fill it.

"Send in an Apache and take this murdering bastard and his followers OUT before they kill any more Americans."

And can we go after Sharon and Pinochet for the same crime next?

And by the way, Al, if you are going to bombast, at least blow up over the substance -- I said carpet bomb Ho Chi Ming, last I heard, he wasn't in Iraq. Oh, right, you're not allowed to talk about history in Vietnam, because, well, it is like the stain Scruffy left on the rug. And then cousin Earl came down with rabies. But we don't talk about that, more coffee?

It doesn't matter what he says about US. We're right and he's wrong.

Apparently, he's smart and we're dumb. When it comes to survival, that combination trumps morality. Just ask bin Laden.

"It doesn't matter what he says about US. We're right and he's wrong."

But we ALWAYS say that, whether we are actually right or not.

Hey, if I agree it's okay to wipe out al-Sadr, will you agree to wiping out Falwell, Robertson, Cal Thomas, and other Christian Reconstructionist types?

Al, you should know by now that opposing a murderous, anti-American, Muslim fundamentalist thug will only bring you endless grief from the appeasement brigade.

Some on the Left viewed the slaughter, mutilation, and hanging of four US civilians in Fallujah as completely justified, because after all they were just "mercenaries."

I can't wait to hear their shrill whining when Bush is re-elected, and Iraq becomes more stable. ;-]

RJ your exactly correct. Unfortunatly the Bush win will be close enough that the same tribe of [Dim]ocrats will scream "He stole the election."

"Hey, if I agree it's okay to wipe out al-Sadr, will you agree to wiping out Falwell, Robertson, Cal Thomas, and other Christian Reconstructionist types?"

Going to answer the question or not?

Nick, to put it gently, I find it difficult to believe that you honestly don't see the difference between the murderer al-Sadr, and the upright perhaps stick in the mud Jerry Falwell. Last I heard, Cal Thomas was not sending out armed minion to kill people.

Hey, if I agree it's okay to wipe out al-Sadr, will you agree to wiping out Falwell, Robertson, Cal Thomas, and other Christian Reconstructionist types?

This is your best argument?

Carruthers, same thing for you. Sharon trying to pinpoint individual terrorists who are actively murdering his people is not even vaguely morally equivalent to al-Sadr sending his thugs out on unprovoked killing sprees.

Saddam killed his father. He should be kissing our asses for the good we've done his country. Instead, he's set on a dumb martyrdom mission.

Alright then, let's give him his goddam martyrdom and move on.

Al, you and RJ (among others) are always talking about taking out murderous theocratic terrorists before they act - I thought I'd, in the spirit of ecumenism, point out Christian prototerrorists who would strip us of our freedoms and execute unbelievers by the thousands given half the chance. I hear Cal Thomas was seen at a cafe with someone who might have been Eric Rudolph right before the Olympic bombing, and hasn't Rudolph been tied to the Army of God terrorist group? I mean, you DO believe in preemptive attack against our enemies, don't you?

RJ, the Sharon one was mine too, not Carruthers'. If you want to pinpoint an individual terrorist you do it with a sniper rifle, not a rocket launcher. A thug is a thug is a thug, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Tamil...

Eric Rudolph will pay for his crimes based on his actions as an individual, not his thinking and religious affiliation. The American Justice system convicts a person on what they do, not what they think.

Sheri, good point.

Nick, who is it the Christian fundamentalists you name want to kill?

As a parlor game, moral relativism can be interesting and even instructive as to similarities in how human's think and operate, but it is no way to live real life.

The problem right now with staining Sadr is a practical matter of unintended consequences and our military buds in Iraq are a little shellshocked and gunshy about now - they are afraid of alienating all the Shiites.

But I can't see him ending up anything other than a stain, but I'll leave the timing up to our people on the ground.

Pat Robertson obviously wants to kill everybody in Foggy Bottom, and he's apparently willing to tolerate quite a few civilian casualties throughout the rest of our nation's capital. So the question remains: Why hasn't that bitch been whacked yet?

"The American Justice system convicts a person on what they do, not what they think."

AHHHHHHHHHHH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAA! No...please...stop...my ribs hurt -

C'mon, you don't even need to dig deeply into *mainstream* history books to see that America has punished its heretics as assiduously as any Inquisitor (unexpected and Spanish or not). I could provide a list of names, but I prefer you do your own homework.

When a JURY OF PEERS is selected,

by both the Prosecution and the Defense thru the process of voir dire,

those jurors weigh the evidence presented to them

and make a decision whether the individual is guilty "beyond reasonable doubt",

of the ACTIONS he has been indicted for.

And it will apply to Eric Rudolph.

that would be "he" or "she".

So, in other words, it is more important that the USA not be percieved as acting like a mafia, but that it actually behave like a mafia.

You've taken a look at how Russia has turned out over the last ten years, and thought "yep, I'm getting some that".

And what's wrong with that? I LOVE the Sopranos.

uhm, sheri, _that's_ a teevee show. It's not real.

"When a JURY OF PEERS is selected, by both the Prosecution and the Defense thru the process of voir dire, those jurors weigh the evidence presented to them and make a decision whether the individual is guilty "beyond reasonable doubt", of the ACTIONS he has been indicted for."

Sounds familiar. Is this the opening narration of the "Law and Order" TV shows?
Ideally, that's how it's SUPPOSED to work; I find your faith in the system quite touching. And I really wish I could agree with you - but I'd have to forget everything I've learned about police and prosecutorial misconduct; botched evidence lab testing; perjury on the stand by police officers and paid informants; innocent people gunned down in their own homes because some lowlife pulled their name out of a hat to save his own ass; judges straitjacketing juries with instructions that may be neither true nor legal. Justice is an iffy proposition, at best.

And I've gotten away from the point I wanted to make, that we've got our own homegrown religious terrorists that we need to keep an eye on. Osama bin Laden is Cal Thomas with an army.

Nick. Nick. Nick. I am not arguing the history of abuses in the system. What I am saying is, there is an action that has taken place in order to be convicted, whether it is manufactured, or what.

In other words....If you were to form "The Nick Satan and Al Sadr Brotherhood To Overthrow America of the United States Of America" church, ya'll could meet once a week, drink goat blood, have weird sex, whatever it is ya'll do. But there ain't a thing anyone can do about it, except protest or move, until you DO something that breaks the law, threatens national security, whatever.

That's all I was saying, and I was applying it specificaly to Eric Rudolph.

So in other words, sheri, you're in favour of the USA acting as a mafia, and abetting and supporting mafias, as long as they aren't in your neighbourhood.

So you can just feel smug in the convenience of hypocrisy. Wrapped in the warm blanket of other people's misery. Bathing in the fear and horror of terrorism carried out by your state elsewhere.

Making tea with the energy of the unwanted underclass.

Now what a fine thing for you to say, sitting up there in Canada.

Now what a fine thing for you to say, sitting up there in Canada.

sheri, would it kill you to actually make an assertion? To put forward a proposition which should be challenged.

In other words, to go beyond, "I know what I am, but what are you?"

However, if you are only a second grade student, then, way to go, you are managing to barely keep up.


I'll state it simply s.o. y.o.u. c.a.n. u.n.d.e.r.s.t.a.n.d. People live in other countries, they have different beliefs. Part of being a grownup is being able to get along with others and contemplate and understand other points of view.

If you are going to make an argument, you need to understand what debate is about. Otherwise, you owe me $5.

Oh, Al owes me $5 too.

Just because.

And I'm saying, sheri, that The Army of God and their sympathizers are just as dangerous to freedom and democracy as al-Qaida and their sympathizers. From what I understand from some reading I did a few years ago, AOG even has the same (or similar) cellular structure as al-Qaida, which makes both groups so hard to track. Prosecuting Rudolph without going after AOG is like trying Sammy the Bull while letting John Gotti go free.

How do you say "banana daiquiri"?

Oh, yeah, if you've read this far, you owe me $5.

Al, what did I say? Now conservative Republicans are being compared to Sadr and his Iranian-backed murderous thugs.

Granted, one of these posters is Canadian, so that explains it a bit...

Anyway, in 2004, the GOP will pick up a few seats in both Houses, and Bush will be re-elected. Iraq will calm down.

What will these kooks agitate about then?

Wow, if Army of God and Christian Identity are the conservatives, I'd hate to see the reactionaries!

Christian Identity, Christian Reconstructionism, Dominion Theory, all these are extreme, supposedly christian, schools of thought.Including Pat Robertson. It is very dangerous thinking, and you are correct to take it serious, because serious they are. However, mainstream christianity, fundamentalists, evangelicals, etc., distance themselves from these groups. Be careful that you recognize the poison.