Blogcritics: Comments on Sheryl Crow and the Women of Rock

Comment by Eric Olsen

Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:35:49 EDT

CC, I am very happy to hear that - I don't think I ever even heard her last one, but I will now get on it. I realize I was remiss to not even mention her.

Comment by ClubhouseCancer

Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:29:36 EDT

Ooooh, the new Patti is terrific. I am a huge fan of her comeback stuff. In fact, I think Gone Again holds up with her best work. And this one might as well. Impassioned as usual, and more risk-taking than the past two. I'm sure, though, Eric, that few will buy it. I may have written this before here, but: To me, Patti Smith is the greatest live rock performer, a rock star like Mick and Dylan and Bruce with as much ROCK STAR JUICE as anyone who ever prowled a stage.

Comment by Eric Olsen

Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:18:02 EDT

Regarding Patti, I should have mentioned she has a new album coming out. But in mild defense, this story was about "popular" female rockers and unless this new one kicks some serious ass - and I hope it does - Patti hasn't been all that popular in a very long time.

Comment by Eric Olsen

Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:15:18 EDT

And I quote myself: The alternative rock festival Lollapalooza is playing up a feminine angle for this summer's tour, hyping the return to live performance of tiny but ferocious English alt-rocker PJ (Polly Jean) Harvey. "Uh Huh Her," the seventh Island Records album from PJ Harvey is due in stores on June 8, and she will be a main stage Lollapalooza headliner, as will Sonic Youth (with bassist/singer Kim Gordon), whose new album "Sonic Nurse" will be released the same day as Harvey's. Note the slant of this festival press release: "With Polly Jean Harvey and feminist agitpoppers Le Tigre now joining Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon on the bill," it reads, "Lollapalooza 2004 just got its first full-on dose of Femme with a capital F! "It goes without saying," the release continues, "but we're going to say it anyway: the remarkable ladies of Lollapalooza are among the smartest, most passionate and influential individuals that rock 'n' roll has ever had to offer, and Lollapalooza 2004 is thrilled to have them on board for what will be a truly extraordinary summer experience." I don't know about all that, but it's nice to hear women rockers getting some old-fashioned hype and attention. Maybe their time has come around again.

Comment by Harald

Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:56:31 EDT

actually, I did a CTRL-F search :)

Comment by mike hollihan

Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:52:26 EDT

Patti Smith My God! I can't believe she hasn't been mentioned on this thread yet! Her rock credentials are without question. I haven't heard the recent albums, but Horses, etc. were powerhouse rock and roll. Jeez...who are you people? ;-)

Comment by Sandra Smallson

Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:15:17 EDT

Eric: I like Garbage a lot, but the general public has no idea who Shirley Manson is, she is basically a chick fronting an electro-pop-rock studio band, and they haven't done anything since '01. Sandra: What has that got to do with anything? I thought popularity and commercial success had nothing to do with credibility of an Artist in the minds of people from your school of thought? Therefore, who cares that America may not have discovered garbage? Who even cares that those others you listed are not as well know as Sheryl? The fact that Sheryl may be more popular than them does not give her the right to be referred to as the last bastion of female Rockstars. If Shirley Manson is a female Rockstar in your eyes, and she is still alive last we checked, then Sheryl is not the reigning queen of rockers. Ms Crow is popular. She sings popular music that appeals to the masses. She doesn't sing Shirley Manson type music that be it grunge, rock, or whatever is not as commercially viable..same with Courtney Love, etc. Sheryl sings pop songs. A popstar is what she is, Eric.

Comment by Eric Olsen

Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:42:49 EDT

Harald, it would appear that you did not click over for the rest of the story.

Comment by Harald

Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:36:08 EDT

What? Nobody even mentions PJ Harvey?

Comment by Eric Olsen

Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:21:22 EDT

Steven, I'm all for inclusiveness and in the broadest sense I have no problem with lumping most of it together under the title of the "rock 'n' roll era" or something similar, but in this case I was breaking it down by genre pretty specifically, as - I would hope - was clearly signalled by my opening sentence where I list a bunch of genres. I like Garbage a lot, but the general public has no idea who Shirley Manson is, she is basically a chick fronting an electro-pop-rock studio band, and they haven't done anything since '01.

Comment by Sandra Smallson

Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:03:55 EDT

Exactly! Visualsimplicity. The forefathers/mothers of Rock will be rolling in their graves if they hear Sheryl Crow has been mentioned as some surviving bastion of female rockstars when Shirley Manson of Garbage is still alive.....and worse still, Pink is being considered Rock, simply because she decided to go a bit Alanis Morisette on us. I guess the dreadful Robbie Williams is some sort of Jazz Musician since he has an Album where he claims to be doing Swing music.

Comment by visualsimplicity

Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:25:07 EDT

(Cough) (Cough) Shirley Manson (Cough).

Comment by Steven Rubio

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:12:38 EDT

I show my age in these discussions. I come from a time (the 1960s) when it was assumed that popular music crossed barriers, was as close to universally appealing as was possible. For good reasons, we have become mistrustful of totalizing theories of culture, and over the last three decades we have moved away from assimilative culture to a diverse multi-culturalism that results in a hundred different stations on satellite radio, all of which play narrowly-defined genres, all of which assume that broadcasting is a losing proposition. Me, I think that popular music is the one place where we might actually find common ground. And so, aging pseudo-hippie that I am, I see "rock and roll" as a very large umbrella, under which I include Aretha Franklin, the Village People, Run-DMC, and Pink. I understand the need to insist on diversity in popular culture, but I still like to be inclusive in my definitions, and so, Pink is a rocker in my book. I see no reason to separate "pop" from "rock." The Chiffons were rock and roll, in my opinion.

Comment by Sandra Smallson

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:28:55 EDT

Steven, it's not about narrow idea of what constitutes Rock. The dividing line b/w genres is thinning as years go by. I am all for that. I simply pointed out this issue because it was used as something to set Sheryl apart when it is something that she is NOT no matter which way you look at it. Pink has some Rock songs but is not a rock musician. She even has one or two R&B songs. Then she has her pop tunes. Infact, Pink has more variety of music on her Albums than Sheryl. I am not a fan of Pink but I give her that. Are RUN DMC rock? just because they happened to do a rock song cum rap with Aerosmith? No. If Debbie Harry is given credit so should Stevie Nicks..afterall, Debbie's solo efforts were atrocious. She's all about Blondie and needs the band as much as Stevie needs Fleetwood Mac. Eric, thanx for your explanation of why you referred to Courtney Love as "aging"..fair point if that is the vein in which you meant it. However, I find it hypocritical of Crow to mention in interviews about the overly sexual image of today's pop stars and then turn out in half naked outfits every chance she gets these days. Guzzling down Beer with the boys like it's going out of fashion. I have no problem with that but please tar yourself with the same brush with which you choose to tar others. Lavigne has one song that I like. Complicated. After that, she's of no use to me. However, she is a teen rock musician. If pop is Xtina and Britney, where is the similarity in Lavigne's music to any of those two? I love Pop so believe me, the more pop stars, the better for me. But, Lavigne is not pop by a long stretch. Chriss Hynde? Rock? Ha! The Pretenders were pop. Truly. They were only called Punk then, because Punk was the popular music in their time. Same thing with Blondie. It was all pop. Alanis is definitely Rock. No Doubt had a reggae Album for Christssake. Basically, my point is..any attempt to elevate any Artist these days beyond the regular on some false basis of genre is a lost cause. Pop music is popular music that appeals to the masses, to the mainstream and obviously has some sort of commercial viability on a grand scale. One doesn't search for Sheryl Crow in the Rock stands or Blues..we find her albums in the pop section. If you find her elsewhere, you may find her in the Country section like you may find Avril, Alanis or No Doubt in the Rock section. Britney in the Dance section. But by no means be confused. They couldn't spot their Stiffed from their Backstreet Boys. Craig, sugah pie, we'll just have to agree that you and I have different ideas of what is considered Pop, Rock or Country. All I wanna do by Sheryl could easily have come out the mouths of Dolly Parton or the freaking Dixie Chicks.

Comment by Eric Olsen

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:23:48 EDT

I think the jury is still out on Pink - she hasn't been around long enough and her huge hit album surely wasn't rock, although her latest is, more or less. Oh, and regarding Heart, they haven't been around for a while as far as I know, and they headed away from rock toward arena-pop along the way as well. But they started off as a rock band, for sure.

Comment by Steven Rubio

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:47:58 EDT

I love Sleater-Kinney very very much, so thanks for mentioning them. Outside of them, I think the best female rocker around right now is Pink, and I'm sorry you didn't mention her. And, in anticipation of the usual "she's not a rocker" crap that always emerges when I mention Pink, 1) if you think so, you have a v.narrow idea of what constitutes rock, and 2) you've never seen her in concert.

Comment by Eric Olsen

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:31 EDT

The aging comment about Courtney is that she shows it, behaves like a deranged adoescent and forces age to be an issue. Crow is the opposite and I made a specific point of mentioning her age because she is defying stereotypes about women her age without making a big deal about it. Re Stevie, I have very mixed feelings about her, but I don't think of her as current, and as a solo artist she is much more pop than rock. But she has done a lot of good songs with Fleetwood Mac. Bonnie Raitt is great, but she is blues/alt adult contemporary - she hasn't done rock in a very long time. Sheryl Crow writes almost all her own songs (she has only done a few covers, primarily on soundtracks, not her own albums), her songs are electric guitar based, she is clearly some version of contemporary roots rocker. Avril is pure teen pop in the guise of faux-punk.

Comment by bhw

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:04:19 EDT

you really don't see many 40 year old punk bands. That's because they're all dead or at least brain dead by then. Courtney is on her way....

Comment by Craig Lyndall

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:16:47 EDT

I am sorry, but your definitions of rock and pop do not agree with mine. Pop is like Britney, Christina, and stuff like that. I consider Sheryl Crowe rock like I consider Chrissie Hynde rock. She is more rock than Alanis Morrissette, Avril, No Doubt (anymore,) and others. I mean it is definitely not pop. It is DEFINITELY NOT country, despite the Kid Rock song. It is rock. I realize we are talking semantics but I just can't put Sheryl Crow in the pop category. Also, I think the difference between Courtney and Sheryl is the fact that Courtney started out in punk. Punk is a genre for the young. I don't think many would argue with that, but you really don't see many 40 year old punk bands.

Comment by Sylvia

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:16:44 EDT

Hey Eric, Sheryl is a great musician. I've seen her live and she is female rocker! But, what about Ann and Nancy Wilson, who not only write most of their own material but, can rock like most male rockers! Stevie Nicks and Bonnie Raitt, need a mention here, too. They may all be in their upper ages, but they can still rock like Chrissy Hynde and Sheryl Crow. Let's give them some credit for starting the female rockers going!!

Comment by Sandra Smallson

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:08:08 EDT

Eric I have one question. Why is Courtney Love referred to as "aging punker"? Is Crow not older than Love? Why did you not refer to Sheryl Crow as aging rockstar? I'll hazard an answer:) Because you like Sheryl Crow:) It's human nature but as you know one of my pet peeves is the double standards of so called critics/reviewers and this word "aging" is a new thing amonsgt u guys. Yet, you write a glowing tribute of somebody you like that may be older than the person you have disparaged and nowhere do you put in aging. The fact that you like her and her music doesn't stop her aging process, you know? It's no big deal but I just noticed it and found it amusing so I thought to ask. Now, I'm off to watch American Idol. My will power is amazing. How I've managed not to find out who leaves this week..knowing very well u guys have the name of the candidate who left all over this site..and even all over the web:) I've overcome my own curiosity and now I shall watch with all the tension the show demands:)

Comment by Sandra Smallson

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:18:46 EDT

I am aware Sheryl writes many of her songs, Craig. That was a tongue in cheek comment by me with regards to her love of "covers"..I am also aware she plays the guitar but so does Avril lavigne and if anything Avril's music has more in common with the Rock Music Genre than any of Sheryl's songs. Playing an instrument in your videos(because as we are aware, a good nos of these pop stars CAN play instruments but simply do not in their videos) may seperate you from other Musicians but it doesn't necessarily make you better at song writing or performance et al. Your point escapes me.

Comment by Sandra Smallson

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:12:01 EDT

Some of Sheryl's songs DO rock, if u mean rock as in good?..but I would be hard pressed to call her a rock musician as we know it. The woman is the epitome of the modern day Country/pop musician. The Hillbillies are not pleased:) Tuesday night club was Country/Pop and none of her subsequent Albums show any musical variation anyway. Very Shania, a little bit Faith Hill and some Leanne Rimes. Granted, I haven't listened to all her songs. I am simply saying that she is in no position to be called the last rock female standing because she is not rock by any stretch of the imagination in the 1st place. This is not to say she is not one of the few prominent female musicians today. She might well not be a prolific "charter" or deliver massive sales worldwide but she is known on both sides of the Atlantic and her music is enjoyed by many. Rock? She " a'int"! in my opinion.

Comment by Craig Lyndall

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:00:33 EDT

Sheryl Crow is definitely softer rock music. It features guitars, bass, and drums. She plays guitar and bass depending on the track and she can perform all her stuff live with a band minus sampler or soundtrack. She does write a lot of her own songs, and she plays an instrument. This is one of things that separates her from the pop stars. And despite the occasional twinge, she is far from country.

Comment by Mark Saleski

Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:54:55 EDT

i dunno...take a group like the Eagles. most people think of them as a rock band, and yet tons are their tunes don't actually 'rock'.