This is wierd. You have no problem with the work fuck, but you have a problem with the word lesbian?

On the one hand I totally agree. It's a great fuckin word. On the other hand it's easily overused. Overuse is like erosion. Fuck is no longer so shocking. The first indicator of a dying word is when its definistion becomes all-inclusive. It took "fuck" centuries to get to this point. But it only took "amazing" about a year. But you make a good fucking point, RJ.

I tell high school students not to use it so much because overuse takes away from the word's power. What will you say when you accidentally cut off your foot? We need this powerful word for extreme situations.

I can't remember if I shared this before, but when I was a kid I thought I heard Buck Rogers say, "fucking." The next day at school, I told all of my elementary school pals. It was the biggest deal. A year or two later, I saw a re-run of the episode. He actually said, "friggin." Man was I disappointed.

I agree totally the word, and swearing in general should be reserved for when FORCE is required. I was watching the Sopranos last night and gave up counting the "fucks" after about 50 - I realize people do talk like that but it just becomes tedious and wearing after a while. One of the best unintended consequences of having children (then having more) is cleaning up my speech - my writing is much more vulgar than my speaking.

Another element of the word is its sound: that is a large part of its popularity, the satisfying fricative followed by the deep short vowel sound, ending with the explosive "kuh." It's damn assertive.

A couple of years ago, while in residency at a highly esteemed artists colony in USA, we had a get together to read from our work.
One guy read a chapter from his play. It was not a one-man's but a one-word play.
I still prefer Shakespeare, or even/especially Waiting for Goddot.
Now, not to deny the global success of a few of these richly allusive expressions. You won't get lost anywhere with them, if them is what you're searching for...

"This is wierd. You have no problem with the work fuck, but you have a problem with the word lesbian?"

I have no problem with either word. I just don't want students to go to school wearing either word on their clothing.

"What will you say when you accidentally cut off your foot?"

"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!"

"What will you say when you accidentally cut off your foot?"

No problem. That's why God gave us two feet.

"This is wierd. You have no problem with the work fuck, but you have a problem with the word lesbian?"

I have no problem with either word. I just don't want students to go to school wearing either word on their clothing.

You don't care if children hear the word 'fuck' you just don't want them to see the word? I'm sure all students and their parents around the country thank you for what you want on their behalf.

American TV is run by self righteous hypocrites. Worried about nudity. Worried about swear words. Now, apparently worried about the word JESUS. A'int that a bitch! Janet Jackson says Jesus and it is bleeped out? What is this world coming to?

I have no problem with the swearing on the Sopranos. The characters they portray speak like that. I am tired of using children as an excuse. These same children go to school with guns and shoot people who piss them off along with anybody else in sight. What is the bigger problem? Children swearing helter skelter or children violent enough to chop off their mates when displeased?

Finally, if Bible study and Jesus are now no-no's in American education or culture, I sure hope all those Jewish slangs like used in many American comedies or the mere mention of the xters be Jewish is eliminated from TV. The Kaballah people should be stopped from wearing their red ropes when in Public. Scientologists should be stopped from hawking their stupid point of view. Infact, if the Bible can no longer be read out in schools, I'm feeling the children should not be taught any history about the Holocaust. Muslims should be stpopped from wearing turbans or scarves like in French schools..no korans.

When a nation starts bleeping out a person using the word Jesus on their TV screens, then you know there is trouble brewing. Worrying about the word "Fuck"? Fuck that! One can't even fucking say Jesus anymore, for fucking crying out loud.

"What will you say when you accidentally cut off your foot?"

I don't know, but if you cut off your own foot, don't come running to me.

I love using the word "fuck" because it causes immediate offense and makes people take note. I can't use it when writing articles in real life, but I do use it in here. How old is the word? Just around 125 years, right?

Didn't it start in England in the 19th century? Policemen/bobbies arresting prostitutes For Using Carnal Knowledge. They would file the paperwork and just say, for short, "F.U.C.K. it"? Or is that an urban myth?

source:http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/f/fword.html

Q. What is the origin of the word fuck?

A. It is remotely derived from the Latin futuere and Old German ficken/fucken.

Originally, this was a quite acceptable word! It was recorded in a dictionary in 1598 (John Florio's A World of Words). It is remotely derived from the Latin futuere and Old German ficken/fucken meaning 'to strike or penetrate', which had the slang meaning 'to copulate'. Eric Partridge, a famous etymologist, said that the German word was related to the Latin words for pugilist, puncture, and prick. The word, which entered English in the late 15th century, became more rare in print in the 18th century when it came to be regarded as vulgar. It was even banned from the Oxford English Dictionary. In 1960, Grove Press (in the US) won a court case permitting it to print the word legally for the first time in centuries -- in D.H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover (written in 1928). One folk etymology, which is incorrect, is that it derives from "[booked] for unlawful carnal knowledge."

I'm going to start handing out red cards in a minute.

While I don't get stirred up by American swear words, I am fascinated by swear words from other countries and languages. Even British swear words seem cooler: "Bugger off you bloody sod." I'm going to use this more often. Am I allowed to use it when I'm teaching?

By the way, is plonker a noun or a verb? Actually, it makes for a good crapping metaphor (Onomatopoeic?).

plonker [euph for penis] n :
idiot, fool

"Sod off, ya wee plonker!"

"You don't care if children hear the word 'fuck' you just don't want them to see the word?"

I don't care if they hear it or read it. Or say it, for that matter. Just not at school.

School is for learning. If a teacher wanted them to look up the origin of the work 'fuck' as a class assignment, I would have no problem with this. But I'm sure the parents would...

Okay, that's clearer.
Agreed. School is for learning.
And one of the most valuable things a child can learn, to prepare them for the real world, is about all the diversity, all the differences, all the good, all the bad, all the different self-identities, all the different religions, and all the different ways we communicate - whether it is saying fuck or whether it is saying intercourse, and no I'm not suggesting teaching kids foul language. They learn that on their own.
I'm suggesting that the most important thing you can learn in school is socialization. I learned math, but all the math I do for my job is done by my calculator. I learned history, but anything I forget, I can look up on the web or in a book. But this world is full of a wide array of people. Learning the differences, and accepting (not necessarily endorsing) those differences is what will enable your child to survive in the real world upon graduation. And I have read many comments on this website that all students should be similiarly dressed in uniform (prison garb, anyone?), and they should be exposed to nothing but math and history and geography, etc. in school. I would feel sorry for any child who went to a school like that. They would be eaten alive in the real world within one week.

Why can't kids learn all about diversity and socialization after school?

I mean, how about, you go to school, learn hard facts, and then after school you go to the park and play basketball with two black guys and a Puerto Rican dude. After the game, you talk with them about the hot Asian chick in 3rd period, and how bad you wanna fuck her. Then you go home and your parents tell you about the birds and the bees (which you already know about) instead of some creepy Health teacher. Then you watch some TV after dinner, see all kinds of diverse people, gays, the handicapped, the mentally retarded, etc. Then you go to bed.

And the next day, at school, you go back to quiet book-learning and hard facts, eagerly awaiting the after-school diversity-and-socialization "class" that is life.

You don't have to agree with me. I just you to know where I'm coming from.

When a nation starts bleeping out a person using the word Jesus on their TV screens, then you know there is trouble brewing.

Sandra, you can cool off. Some Christians were happy that Janet was bleeped, because she wasn't saying "Jesus is my savior" she was saying, "Jesus!" as in "Jesus Christ!" as in using it as a swear. Most of the devout Christians I know find it offensive, to say the least.

Now, I happen to agree that it didn't need bleeping, but I don't think it was religious censorship, just overzealous censorship of anything Janet might say or do because everyone's still torqued up about the nekkid breast.

So please leave the Jews [and their slang], the red-robed Kaballah people, Scientologists, Holocaust historians, and turban or scarf-wearing Muslims alone. Thanks.

Almost forgot, fuck is a great word.

When I started watching the Sopranos, my new favorite epithet became "motherless fuck."

When I started watching the Sopranos, my new favorite epithet became "motherless fuck."

I don't watch the Sopranos. I don't have HBO, and I'm not really into the whole Mobster thing (I haven't seen any of the Godfather flicks from start to finish).

BTW, my favorite epithet is "mindless Communist." Which probably says a lot about me... ;-]

When I first saw the promos for The Sopranos a few years ago, I thought, "Oh great, another mobster show." I thought it was going to suck, like the network shows did.

But then about mid-way through the first season, I watched one episode and was hooked. It's a good show, one of the few that I watch.

Everyone I talk to seems to love it. But I have a difficult time relating to protagonists who are such murderous scum.

...Then you watch some TV after dinner, see all kinds of diverse people, gays, the handicapped, the mentally retarded, etc. Then you go to bed.

You don't have to agree with me. I just you to know where I'm coming from.

I know where you are coming from, but I think you and I both know it's a place I can never go. It's too single-tract, close-minded and condescending for me. We are all entitled to our own opinion. I don't think I could agree with you on anything. I think if any educational system adopted your philosophy then our future generations are doomed. I'm sure you are a good person at heart, if not close-minded, and I hope I don't sound like I'm attacking or singling you out, I have just never read such a single-tract philosophy before (on all topics we have discussed), so I just feel compelled to continually counter-comment.

You cannot learn about diversity by watching tv. Tv stereotypes people for easy identification. Jack from Will and Grace is a stereotype, although one with some witty lines every now and then. Queer Eye is a stereotype. I'm a gay man, 39 years old, been monogamous for 18 years and have a 19 month old daughter. I don't lurk in the shadows seeking anonymous strangers, I have never known the meaning of the word promiscuous, I have no fashion sense, I cannot decorate to save my life, I am not flamboyant, women chase me all the time (for some reason even more so when me and my daughter are out somewhere), I don't know how to do hair, I don't go to bars or do drugs but I can survive in the wilderness and build a car from just the parts.

Thank you for your description of diverse people being gays, handicapped people and mentally retarded people. Your list of only those specific three didn't escape me.

RJ, if you want gay people to disappear back into hiding (you've never said it, but it's obvious in your posts), you are entitled to that, I don't want to fight for YOUR acceptance, but thankfully in the real world that will never happen. It is reading posts like yours or meeting people like you that causes people like me to say 'go Natalie, sue that school system for all they got, because they'll never learn live-and-let-live any other way'. And if that drives semi-accepting people like Mac Diva away, so be it. There comes a time to stand for what is right.

Yes, RJ, I know where you are coming from. I grew up in the bible belt and those with your mentality have put me on the emergency room table more than once. Continue to push for a math/english/history only school system, devoid of any self-identification all you want, continue to want gay people to remove all indications of who they are from their clothes, their mannerisms, their public displays of affections, or their lawsuits for equality all you want, all I can say is 'ain't gonna happen'.

"I'm a gay man, 39 years old, been monogamous for 18 years and have a 19 month old daughter."

Huh? This does not parse...

What part do you not understand?
I'm 39. I met my partner when I was 21. We went through a surrogacy process for 5 long difficult years, culminating in the birth of my daughter who is now 19 months old. Do you need a chart or graph? Perhaps you should have paid better attention in your school. Oh, wait a minute, all you learned is english and math, so you can't figure much else out. Welcome to the real world.

Also, I do not like the implied assertion that "those with your mentality have put me on the emergency room table more than once."

I would NEVER attack someone simply for being gay. Never. In fact, I have had gay guys make unwanted advances in my direction more than a few times, and I have NEVER physically attacked them. In a weird sense, it is flattering. It means I must be attractive, on at least some level. These individuals were told where to go, but not punched, or kicked, or spit upon. And the idea that "people who think like me" do such things all the time is foul and insulting and dishonest.

America is such a welcoming, open place that you and your ilk will likely enjoy the "right" to marry in a matter of a few years. I won't agree with this. But then again, I won't be clubbing homosexuals to death in the streets in response either.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Fine. That;s your right. But just because someone has a different worldview from your own does not make him/her a "gay bashing subhuman."

You really aren't winning any ideological allies by making such assumptions, either.

Your insulting tone is noted.

I have no problem with you, or other gay people. What you do on your own time is up to you. Sodomy laws are idiotic. And Civil Unions are something I do not oppose.

I don't want you to "go back in the closet." I just want you to stop being an asshole. And to maybe stop being so "closeminded" and view things from another perspective.

That's not too much to ask, is it?

Also, I do not like the implied assertion that "those with your mentality have put me on the emergency room table more than once."

I would NEVER attack someone simply for being gay.

RJ, you need to step outside of your one-tract mentality. I'd rather discuss/debate with you than argue/fight with you. Think outside the box, if it's possible.

You might not attack a gay person, but those with the mentality of gay=mentally retarded=handicapped can. Doesn't mean they all do, 'all the time'.

I'm so hearted to hear that you think we will be able to marry in a few years. That means that you believe Bush is a one-term president.

It's interesting that gay people hit on you more than once. Most gay people I know won't do that if they are 100% sure the person they are hitting on is straight.

I'm not sure of the definition of 'chip on my shoulder', perhaps I have one, perhaps I don't, but I do believe in standing up for what is right, and not being quiet when someone goes around preaching (even subconsciously) intolerance and close-mindedness.

What perspective should I view things from? That gay people should be happy with the 10 benefits of civil unions and not the 1,700 of marriage? That gay people should wear no clothing that indicates self-expression? I'm not sure what perspective you are wanting me to consider.

"You might not attack a gay person, but those with the mentality of gay=mentally retarded=handicapped can. Doesn't mean they all do, 'all the time'."

I do not equate a gay man or woman with a retard. Why do you think this? Because my comment on other "minorities" included the mentally handicapped? It could have just as easily included Native Americans and the blind.

"I'm so hearted to hear that you think we will be able to marry in a few years. That means that you believe Bush is a one-term president."

Do you understand the Constitutional Amendment process at all?

"It's interesting that gay people hit on you more than once. Most gay people I know won't do that if they are 100% sure the person they are hitting on is straight."

Uh huh. This is rather typical. I must be queer, right?

Maybe "Gaydar" is over-rated? No, of course gays are preternaturally able to discern straight from gay, far better from the heterosexual untermensch.

"You might not attack a gay person, but those with the mentality of gay=mentally retarded=handicapped can. Doesn't mean they all do, 'all the time'."

I do not equate a gay man or woman with a retard. Why do you think this? Because my comment on other "minorities" included the mentally handicapped? It could have just as easily included Native Americans and the blind.

"I'm so hearted to hear that you think we will be able to marry in a few years. That means that you believe Bush is a one-term president."

Do you understand the Constitutional Amendment process at all?

"It's interesting that gay people hit on you more than once. Most gay people I know won't do that if they are 100% sure the person they are hitting on is straight."

Uh huh. This is rather typical. I must be queer, right?

Maybe "Gaydar" is over-rated? No, of course gays are preternaturally able to discern straight from gay, far better than the heterosexual untermensch.

I do not equate a gay man or woman with a retard. Why do you think this? Because my comment on other "minorities" included the mentally handicapped? It could have just as easily included Native Americans and the blind.

It could have, but it didn't.

Do you understand the Constitutional Amendment process at all?

Yes. I think it will die without a President who supports it. While the process is difficult with a President who does support it, there have been numerous amendments to state constitutions already, no less than 5, so it is a possibility/threat, I cannot disregard.

"It's interesting that gay people hit on you more than once. Most gay people I know won't do that if they are 100% sure the person they are hitting on is straight."

Uh huh. This is rather typical. I must be queer, right?

No, RJ, of course not. But they must not be 100% sure you are straight. Does that bother you?

Maybe "Gaydar" is over-rated?

It's not over-rated. It's a myth.

"No, RJ, of course not. But they must not be 100% sure you are straight. Does that bother you?"

Not at all. Should it? You claim Gaydar is a "myth." So, WTF is your point?

You claim Gaydar is a "myth." So, WTF is your point?

Huh? You brought up gaydar. My point was about:

1) diversity exposure in school can only help students not hurt them.
2) not having a problem with kids seeing/hearing 'fuck' outside of school but inside of school is ridiculous.
3) There's more to learning than math, history and english, although they are all important.
4) Sometimes you've got to stand up and fight harassment and continual discrimination, which is what Natalie did.
5) Your viewpoint that gay people should walk around being sexless, generic, bland beings in uniform so as not to 'disrupt' is ridiculous.

If you mean what was my point in regards to saying that gay people who hit on you don't know if you are straight or not, well, the point is simply that. Gay people cannot tell who is straight or gay any more than a straight person can. I never claimed otherwise, you did.

Boomcrash: I'm a gay man, 39 years old, been monogamous for 18 years and have a 19 month old daughter."

RJ: Huh? This does not parse...

Sandra: LOL:)

BTW, Gaydar is not always a myth. Some gay people are so gay you can tell from a million miles off...come on now, boom crash..be real! Forget about the fight for equality just now and call a spade a spade. Some people do have gaydar and some people are so gay no one needs gay dar to tell they like it without the "schwing".

Gaydar is not always a myth. Some gay people are so gay you can tell from a million miles off

My personal opinion of it is that if someone is so 'nelly', 'swishy' or whatever you want to call it, that you can immediately identify them as gay, that isn't gaydar. If someone has a rainbow tattoed on their shoulder, my gaydar doesn't go off, common sense though tells me that person is gay.

I still think gaydar is a myth. If I meet a man who is completely straight-acting, but who has never been married, lives with a 'roommate' at 40 years old, has the stereotypical high-maintenance look, etc. well, let me just say gaydar, or the ability to zero in on somebody isn't some unique thing. It's just a more astute observation and having a more astute observation of human behavior is not exclusive to the gay community. Gay people continually read me as straight.

i love calculator and it sucks too sometimes

hi
sucker ! wat up

Yo, Bobby (RJ) Elliott...I'm curious...does your mother read Blog Critics?

Nice to see you're still ressurecting ancient threads so you can snipe at people, MCH. Why not do something useful with your time instead? Perhaps share some of your half-formed thoughts in a post, even.

Dave