Blogcritics: Comments on A Prayer for Our Schools

Comment by bhw

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:47:46 EST

Jaded wrote: You say who wouldn't want to have safer neighborhoods and schools? Probably you haven't ever volunteered to work at your local school, have you? I don't go to school. Neither do my kids. But I do some stuff with a local literacy foundation. Is that good enough for your 1950s standards? Do you belong to a neighborhood watch group? No. I'm fortunate to live where one is not needed. Besides the 83-year-old widow [and her cat] across the street pretty much keep an eye on everything for me. As for values, I'll just bang the drum of some other commenters and say that they start at home and are reinforced in the community, such as in schools. [And one of those values is religious freedom and the notion that government agencies can't impose religion on children in school.] If prayer was so important to creating good, safe schools, then many a prestigious secular private school would be out of business. So money [in the community and school itself] and the things it provides access to have more to do with the quality of a school than anything else. A lot of kids come from poor home environments [not in the monetary sense, but in the parental sense]. So schools can be a safe haven for them, a positive environment that practices the values it preaches. A kid in a middle-to-upper-class community from a troubled home usually has a better chance of succeeding than the average kid from a troubled community. It's about the money and the services it can buy. Prayers are nice, but cash is better.

Comment by HW Saxton Jr.

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:49:10 EST

David Gates was also a member of that loose knit group of session musicians called the "Wrecking Crew" that worked for Phil Spector. Betcha that Eric also knew that too. He knows everything.

Comment by Shark

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:24:57 EST

...and white bread was invented by David Gates. (Betcha Eric knew that)

Comment by Mac Diva

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:50:22 EST

You must be confusing me with someone else, Jaded. I have never called anyone a 'Nazi'. Nor is the word 'zealot' one I use much. Perhaps you are quoting someone who himself does not paraphrase me accurately. Nor will I use the word 'racist' to characterize you in my description, though you do seem to be trolling for that. I would say you are a person who is a virtual recluse. Someone so afraid of life that you are shutting it out in an elusive and doomed search for 'safety.' Also, you are someone who fears reality and hides in fantasy worlds. If you actually read history books about the 50s and 60s you would have no illusions they were perfect times. The Cold War. Domestic oppression. High rates of alcoholism and dependence on prescription drugs. Bad marriages because it was difficult to get a divorce. Unwed mothers homes. You will not see any of that on Leave It to Beaver or The Dick Van Dyke show. Back to your peanut butter and jelly sandwich. You do realize the popularization of peanut butter was the work of inventor George Washington Carver, right?

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:05:38 EST

Why not it works SO well for the justice system....

Comment by Eric Olsen

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:51:38 EST

No irony - it doesn't do much good to drag resentments around from post to post. We should try to start over again each time, wipe the slate clean, begin anew and other cheery bromides of reconciliation and renewal. Otherwise we preclude the possibility of change and growth, and I don't think we want to do that.

Comment by Shark

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:04:42 EST

I have noticed of late that people have accused Mac Diva of laying down the race card when she has in fact not done so. (Shark praying -- for the first time in his life -- that this statement was intended as irony)

Comment by Shark

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:00:24 EST

Dirtgrain and Marky Mark are spot on. I'll add: Values are assimilated, not 'taught'. Values should be assimilated from *family first, friends second, and culture next. (ideally, by using that Mandatory Wacky Uncle as a model)

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:58:08 EST

BTW, the Practice overall IMHO sucks, the big black guy (Eugene?) and the little chubby guy can be interesting, due to their emotional responses.

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:50:01 EST

RE: # 48 Dang it, I told myself I wouldn't get into that. You aren't going to get me off of my original subject, and on to your favorite one. Re: # 49 Hey man, it's your show...i'll think whatever you want me to think. I can read, and reason, and apparently so can others. If there's smoke, there's usually a fire though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Back to the issue originale. We have( through the diligence and perseverance of we the parents) taken an active role or roles in the community to ensure the the way of life that everybody really wants ( don't bother saying you don't) regardless of personal origin :-P My wife is there when the kids leave, and there after school. We have a nice house, and a yard, and I like it that way. Do you really think that the dream of a white picket fence came to be by accident? You would be sadly mistaken. It may be pie in the sky wishful thinking, but that's what everyone wants ( yes, i am sure that there are people out there that don't, but they are in the minority globally). You think that the people in the desert would pick that dirt floor over wall to wall carpeting? Nope. That the people living in caves prefer bedrock over sheetrock? Fresh water? Fresh and plentiful food? nope. Picket fences, green yards, and dogs named Fido or Spot. Come on, lie to me, tell me that it wouldn't be great it the world was one big national park, with everyone frolicking through verdant green pastures.....anyway, I know that will never happen, but I know that our village is intact, and that we are raising our families together.

Comment by Mark Saleski

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:23:10 EST

gotta agree with Dirtgrain here, the problems that i layed out can only be solved by a concious effort of society and the family. but...there's an awful lot of inertia to overcome. for instance, what the heck are you gonna do about the fact that most parents are working long hours...creating permanent latchkey kids? i'm not really sure about the sitting down to dinner thing either. something tells me that all of the planned activities for kids has caused some of though (though those activities, in and of themselves, are a good thing).

Comment by Eric Olsen

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:17:23 EST

I have noticed of late that people have accused Mac Diva of laying down the race card when she has in fact not done so. I would hope that we could respond to what has actually been said rather than what we anticipate others might say.

Comment by Dirtgrain

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:12:40 EST

Corporate values suck. Furthermore, if you are going to depend on a state institution to teach values, that will suck as well. What about family? Community? Corporations are destroying all of that. Down with corporatism. Down with Big Brother. Shark, donut holes are Fnords? I wouldn't eat a Fnord. Eric said: "Clearly the fact that people stick around is reason to believe there is common ground to be found - shouldn't we try to maximize common ground and not extrapolate points of contention?" Yes!

Comment by Mac Diva

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:06:26 EST

I suspected you didn't like dark bread, Jaded. How about challah or Jewish rye? I am saddened to hear you are missing my favorite network television show The Practice. Would you care to share why you will not watch it ?

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:05:22 EST

Re # 42 MD, why don't you go ahead and call me a racist, or Nazi, or zealot, or whatever it is you are working up to? I have read your prior posts on various subjects as well, and that subject seems to pop up alot....

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:02:54 EST

Re:# 43 Butter both pieces first, it helps with cohesion.

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:00:39 EST

Um, cause I'm not crazy about dark bread?

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:59:16 EST

Heh, good one, JR. :-) Ok, Cmmnt#40, those are good ones, and we eat together every night, just about. We do have a video system, Gamecube ( mostly not blood and guts games), and TV is pretty much limited to wholesome comedy, or educational programming. Now how can this plan, which I say is an excellent one, be enacted upon on a massive scale?

Comment by Mark Saleski

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:50:40 EST

can you actually spread peanut butter on white bread without ripping it? (wonderbread, that is. good for fish bait too, but the way)

Comment by Mac Diva

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:43:32 EST

Dark bread is tastier and more healthy, Jaded. Why will you be having your peanut butter and jelly sandwich on 'white'?

Comment by JR

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:08:55 EST

I lived near a parochial school when I was a kid. I had to stay clear when those kids got out of school because they would throw rocks at any kid not in a uniform. I don't know why they acted that way, I never met any of them. I couldn't meet them, seeing as how it wasn't safe to get anywhere near them.

Comment by Mark Saleski

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:53:22 EST

an alternate method for instilling values presented a good place to start would be: -comparative religous studies (so just maybe we'll know something about how the rest of the world lives) honestly, instilling values used to be a function of the family....and a lot of what went on at home (eating dinner together, playing together, etc) has been replaced by both parents at the workpace, grabbing food on the way out the door, instang messaging, cellphones, video games, and television, television, television.

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:39:52 EST

I never said that the bible was the literal word of God. I'm goona go eat my PB&J on white for lunch now, you guys come up with something more interesting than you have so far, which by the way, I still haven't seen an alternate method for instilling values presented. And please don't bring race and dissonance riots into this discussion, furthering the new great american pastime of "digression". Most of America wanted to click along in pleasantville, not throw bricks.

Comment by Shark

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:26:45 EST

And the values that we are looking for are to be found in our history prior to the 60's, I wonder why? I don't know which 60s you lived in, but the values were pretty stinky overall back then, too. At least we've moved up to the 60s, and those people chasing McD's folks with ropes had turned to dogs and water hoses. A few more posts, and we'll be up to that golden era of compassion and altruism, the 1980s! PS: Values don't have expiration dates.

Comment by jaded naivete

Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:26:12 EST

Re: # 33 Exclusive? What does that matter? I am not in control of the people that have taken control of certain parts of our city, yet i'm not going to let them take away what I work (hard) for, or vandalize just or the sake of doing it.. We have to watch out for the people that don't want to pray in their schools....LOL