Excellent Moe. So good to get an actual you-were-flipping-there review. Thanks!

Not to be argumentative but I find the comments on this post insensitive and scary. If the movie is as real as the hype says it is, writing it off as mere overkill would be akin to yawning through a snuff movie regardless of who is doing the dying.

BB- I don't understand. Exactly what is the offense? You're offended at Moe's lack of emotional response? He should have been feeling Jesus' pain, or he should have been mad at Gibson?

What exactly is your beef?

BB- How can I be expected to view as "real" if I'm a non-Christian? I don't believe much of it. what do you mean by real?

It is a movie, after all. Even if one accepts the historical accuracy of things, or even if one takes it as a general depiction of a general crucifixion, of which there were many around that time, it's still just a movie. James C got up and walked around afterward, he'll be appearing on a late night talk show near you soon.

So how in the name of all that is green is it in any way akin to a snuff film?

I think what BB is trying to say is that any film that documents the prolonged death of any man, should be met with a reaction of genuine sadness, rather than say a blase view akin to Travolta and Jackson in Pulp Fiction.

Maybe only devout and dogmatic Catholics can enjoy this film. The mere fact that it's not in English and without subtitles is enough to keep me away.

I would rather watch whatever special they were showing on the devotional cable channels at Christmas time - something about the life of Christ and his teachings.

Very moving and left me feeling good about my faith, rather than wanting to go out and kill the first Jew I saw (which could very well have been myself had I slipped past a mirror.)

Ah, frankly I don't understand your reactions. I didn't say that I was offended. I don't play that game. What I said was I found Moe's post to be a rather insensitive dismissal of a realistic portrayal of torture and death - regardless who the victim is. I don't know how more plain I can be. Perhaps it was an overreaction on Moe's part to minimize its impact?

See, I told you BB was making a veiled Tarantino reference!

Nice job BB! But stop playing games with these guys. You wish to say they are desensitized, then spit it out and stop your damn lollygagging!

I am NOT desensitized to anything. I just happened to love Jesus and don't need to see him in a Texas Chainsaw Massacreized gore flick.

Was Mel trying to attract psychotics and gore obsessed teens, or depict the life of the Messiah?

Moe: "...Jews come off quite badly, and are the primary causes of Jesus' death in the film, but that's pretty much the way the gospels went..."

Anybody heard Mel say this explicity? It's true, and sorta gets him off the hook: "Hey, it's just like the book!"

or depict the life of the Messiah

I think it's not supposed to be about his life or teachings. The whole movie is basically about his death, which is far more important than his life, I think. Without the death [sacrifice], no resurrection. Without the resurrection, no salvation.

Or at least that's how it went in CCD.

I've been called a lot of things - but a lollygagger? Man that hurts!!!

A "...Texas Chainsaw Massacreized gore flick". "...feeling good about my faith, rather than wanting to go out and kill the first Jew I saw". Dawn, do you really believe that? The reality is he was tortured to death. That is part and parcel of the gospel. Sometimes reality sucks but does that mean the story should be sanitized for our viewing pleasure?

I for one feel no malice towards anybody. I do however feel tremendous empathy and that is the point.

bhw, I don't know if I can agree his death is more important than his life, but you are certainly correct when you say "Without the death [sacrifice], no resurrection. Without the resurrection, no salvation."

...and without Mark 16, verses 9 through 20 being added many years later, no resurrection.

Shark you might find this interesting.

..Jews come off quite badly, and are the primary causes of Jesus' death in the film, but that's pretty much the way the gospels went..."

Yes, that is why the Gospels, especially the Gospel of John, are among the most virulently anti-Semitic tracts ever written. If Mel is doing a literal interpretation of the New Testament (which is what his offshoot of Catholicism is) then Mel is an anti-Semite.

So Mike.. if the word of God is anti-semitic, you would also call God such?

(Shark's head spins--- thinking BB is eventually going to work up to...)

* If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes?

* If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

* When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

* Do Lipton Tea employees take coffee breaks?

* If it's true that we are here to help others, then what are the others here for?

(Shark's eyes roll back in his skull as he summons just enough mental strength to hope that a "Who's The Boss" rerun is on about now)

Shark - I take it back.

BTW, you said you don't watch TV?

BB, re. your line of questions, tv, etc.

It.

Was.

A.

Joke.

Y'know, based on the fact that it's always tough to debate God, Universe, etc. in an online forum.

PS: I have always depended on the kindess of strangers, and that was mighty sweet what you alls said about moi. Dearest BB, I hope I didn't offend you; we can't dislike each other because that would upset one of whats-her-name's many 'right-wing blogger' conspiracy theories.

xxoo
S

I haven't see the movie, but Moe's comment doesn't surprise me:

They should have called this "The Bleeding of the Christ," most of the movie is just that, Jesus bleeding. Charge me with deicide if you will, but after about 2/3's of the movie I was begging for the guy to die already so we could all go home.

I think it's not supposed to be about his life or teachings. The whole movie is basically about his death, which is far more important than his life, I think. Without the death [sacrifice], no resurrection. Without the resurrection, no salvation.

Those who oppress the needy insult their maker (this link is a transcript of Bill Moyers interviewing Joseph C. Hough, President of Union Theological Seminary and Professor of Social Ethics). "The meek shall inherit the earth." "God has anointed me to preach good news to the poor, deliverance to the captives, freedom to the oppressed, and the year of Jubilee." "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven." Do you hear the Franciscans, Dominicans and Benedictines putting their boxing gloves back on? A fistfight in the name of Jesus about whether true Christians should live humble lives with minimal possessions or be rich, fat bastards--yes! This is the kind of laughable hypocrisy that makes the bitter irony of life bearable. I remember reading about an incident in which a kid went into a gas station store wearing a t-shirt that said, "F#!% Jesus." Two "Christians" were so offended that they beat the crap out of him. Go figure. I should probably point out the possibility that the Christian notion of heaven may well have started out as a way for rich people to get poor people to feel okay about being poor (see the Monty Python's Holy Grail scene where Arthur debates political science with a peasant)--there is always heaven where all are equal and rewarded, so don't worry about us rich people and our money. It may well continue in that vein today. Now I understand all of that Bush born-again crap: "The spirit of God is upon me because God has anointed me to preach good news to the poor." Thanks a lot, Bush/Jesus, but how about a minimum wage increase? Too often politicians invoke the name of Jesus merely to use it as a holy glittering generality (The Holy Hand grenade of Antioch?), instead of discussing the positive human characteristics that Jesus represents--for example that he wasn't greedy and rich, and he helped the poor. Bush? Hey Bush? Oh yah, he doesn't read anyway (so much for reading about Jesus), and I doubt that he can stay awake in church. I, a non-Christian, would love to quiz him on the Bible (e.g., George, please tell me who Esau was. George says, "That's easy. It's the sow that God told Abraham to sacrifice on the altar").

bhw, I respectfully, but emphatically disagree with your assertion that the most important thing about Jesus was his death. Without his teachings and lessons in forgiveness, understanding and love - his death would be meaningless.

We feel so much empathy regarding his death because he was so full of empathy and goodness for everyone he met. It was his life and his living example that make him an icon, not his bloodletting on the cross.

bhw, I'm with Dawn on this one. In the early Christian church emphasis was placed on Christ's life and the example he set. It was a tenet of early Christianity. It was later, during the middle ages, that the the crucifixion and salvation ideas began to gain ascendance. So, yes Christ's passion and death are important, but not the most important IMO.

Shark - I was just kidding too. Remember that tongue-in-cheek stuff. And I agree with your analysis regarding conspiracy theories :-)

Dirtgrain - I can't fault your analysis that the world is riddled with hypocrisy. But I will say you cannot write-off Christ's message of love and hope because of a few bad apples. The bottom line is people will always let us down and we have to keep our eyes on the prize.

Dawn:

1Pe 2:24 ...by whose stripes you were healed.

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace,

Only one of the gospels states that the jews were responsible for the death of Jesus, so this movie is not entirely acurate to the least. I also believe that this movie can and possibly will instill anti-semitism in christians.

"No malice at anyone" . . . except mouthy women, uppity colored people, Jews who don't realize he is doing them a favor by not having them slain on the spot and anyone else who does not dance to his tune. What a recommendation to God. (Isn't he supposed to be gone, anyway?)

Good review, Moe. I think your being dispassionate about the movie makes this one.