Robbie, I think the very positive and most importantly, REALISTIC reasons you name in favor of legalization and regulation outweigh the negative reasons you state at the end, and I have four children.

If it works in rural Nevada, there is no reason it cant' work elsewhere. Of course, I fell the same way about drugs.

Legalize marijuana and prostitution and tax the hell out of them, just like they do to cigarettes and booze.

We've got gambling starting to move in on every community (where there is an indian tribe that allows gaming anyway). This revenue could be used to get this country financially out of the hole in a hurry and get our schools back on track.

"But times have changed." Sorry to burst your bubble but there is nothing new under the sun. The fact that a sleazy part of society has been around since the dawn of mankind doesn't necessarily justify acceptance into mainstream society. All sorts of crime has been around for eons so shall we also legalize pedafilia? Some would argue it is a healthy and normal behaviour (for the record I disagree vehimately) and remember that a vast number of prostitutes are under-age girls (and boys). From a health perspective an argument could be made legalization would benefit society. Nevertheless I have to agree with your last comment and as a parent of daughters I would be concerned if it should ever become a legit business.

Sorry for the bad spelling. I should know better. That's "vehemently" and "pedophilia".

BB, I suggest you consider making a distinction between, as you call it, acceptance versus tolerance.

Generally speaking, prostitution strikes me as yucky and sleazy. Of COURSE I wouldn't want any of my women folk involved. It is perfectly reasonable or at least understandable to consider prostitution immoral and just plain bad.

Still, is it any of YOUR business? What right do you have to interfere in the relationship between two consenting adults?

Further, prostitution ain't going away. How much worse do you make it by forcing it underground? Booze does far more damage to society than prostitution, in my estimation. Yet we all know how much WORSE we made it by prohibition.

It's in the nature of freedom that some will use in ways of which we don't approve. It wouldn't be freedom if we were only allowed to do things that everyone agrees are good.

It should be legal, taxed, and regulated as alcohol, gambling and drugs should be.

Mr. Barger, it is my understanding that I have the right to express my view on society as much as you do. It's called freedom of speech. If you are implying that stops when it comes to matters of social consciousness then I believe you are sadly mistaken :)

BB, where in the world did you get any idea that I would deny you the right to express an opinion? Indeed, I think I was fairly gentle and respectful of your opposition to prostitution.

It would appear that you have failed to make a distinction between expressing your views about prostitution versus IMPOSING those views on everyone else. There's a big difference.

"Still, is it any of YOUR business?"

I suppose it was the comment above that I was referring to.

"Where in the world did you get any idea" that I am "IMPOSING" my views on you or anybody else for that matter?

There's nothing more to read in to this. It is my opinion - and that is all.

"It wouldn't be freedom if we were only allowed to do things that everyone agrees are good."

Even regulating prostitution is an imposition to a degree. If you are saying society cannot make any judgment calls on matters of social conscientiousness it would be called anarchy. And please Al don't challenge me on that because we would be all night on that point :)

BTW Al, my style of writing tends to be rather succinct. Having worked in law I am used to a judge demanding that I divulge my case (with a file that is at least 5 inches thick) in 2 minutes or less. I am trained to cut through the BS and get to the heart of the matter without the fluff. I suppose that makes me a bad candidate for writing fiction :) If my response appeared curt to you then please accept my apologies. It was not my intention.

Nah Bloke, it's cool. I don't offend that easily. Lordy, I would never have survived the Mac Diva experience if I were that thin skinned.

To be succinct, then, I have a strong presumption against legal interference in the activities of consenting adults. You don't have to LIKE what other people do, but you'll need a much more compelling argument than simple personal moral distaste to justify curtailing the liberty of others.

"Moral distaste" or social consciousness (or whatever you want to call it) is a compelling enough argument on its own merit. I think I know you well enough that you don't agree with pedofilia. If that isn't a moral stance then what is? Criminal laws are based on basic social mores. If you want to deny society that right then you may as well invite anarchy because that is the alternative.

Pedophilia goes into a whole different set of issues, as it involves young people not yet capable of informed consent. That's not the same thing at all.

"The Mac Diva Experience" -- good one, Al! LOL I have this vision of beads, Woodstock, acid and a distorted guitar suddenly. The feverish pitch that she plays at should make her a candidate for the top 100 guitarist's list.

Well Al, I don't know if I can accept your overtly "simple" dismissal of my "argument". Prostitution does not involve just consenting "adults". The fact is children are also involved in the sex trade and that is not acceptable under any circumstances. Government regulation would not alter that reality. It would in fact give the business the proverbial seal of approval, thereby sanctifying it and giving it even more credibility in the eyes of the beholder.

I suppose in the most "simple" of terms what I am trying to say is that once you lower the standard the problem will only get worse.

why should we do it in the dark like most of us do, why not just do it openly, legalize it! it will make our lives much more easier.
prostitues should be given license and certain rules should be followed before undertaking the oath of prostitution, that will make a better world, a world of freedom "do what you want to' as long as you have it under control".
people around the world talk about freedom, maybe this should be our first step towards it.

I don,t understand how we end up spending so much money in an issue that we know is not going to go away, i have 4 children as well and if one of them will take that path in their life i would do every thing to helped them but ultimately we alll know they going to do what ever regardless.so, my point tax the shit out of them, and who cares what they do with their bodies.

Then let's RAISE the standard: kick out the kids, kick out the pimps, call up Margo St. James, or revive COYOTE without her, organize networks, a lobbying group, and one or more unions for the workers, get commitments from sympathetic physicians, start building a base. If Nevada can do it, why not the rest of the country? Set the minimum age at sixteen - if they're hold enough to hold a job where they could be crushed between a tailgate and a loading dock, or killed in a grease fire at McDonald's, they're old enough to have sex. Allow no coercive contracts; all employment is 'at will'. Regular inspections by the health board. And so on.

Never fucking happen in a MILLION years in Puritan America, but I can dream, can't I?

We already accept/tolerate so many things that might be considered immoral in society today. I am all for legalising prostitution.

It means every woman has a job waiting for her if all else fails:) I jest. No. I wouldn't do it personally, but Jacklyn Bloggs might. Why stop her? If it is legalised it would probably become less seedy and less dangerous. It is all those awful things because it's illegal. Make it legal and they would all be like the high class escort agencies that exist today. Prominent business men have no problem with those ones:) A prostitute is a prostitute..that is certainly one protest march I wouldn't mind attending..placard and all:)

I don't know about legalising weed. I have a colleague who has been smoking the thing for almost 10 years now. He CAN NOT remember simple things. But for me he would have lost his job a few months ago. I just happen to have a soft spot for him so I cover his ass. How do you legalise them smoking the thing in moderation? I never believed it affected the memory until this colleague of mine slowly but surely became a spastic before my very eyes.

You really can't legislate moderation. You can either legislate a total ban, or penalties for any damage caused by immoderation. And you can't legislate intelligence: look at all the "Jackass"-related injuries.

The average prostitute in America gets fucked by her first man at the age of 13. A study done on San Francisco prostitutes found about 80% were raped as children.

Since 13 is the average starting age for the average American prostitute, how many millions of American male child rapists don't consider themselves rapists because they paid money and if you give a 13 year old money to stick your dick inside her child's body it isn't rape?

90% of prostitution in the USA is pimp-controlled, in other words, 13, 14, 15, and 16 year olds are getting raped repeatedly every night for the profit of pimps (prostitution is the most profitable gang activity in Los Angeles)

Please learn the truth before simply suggesting legalization of child is a good thing. Everywhere in the world prostitution has been legalized, child prostitution, drug activity, trafficking in human slaves and sexually transmitted diseases increase.

Please educate yourself more thoroughly before deciding what it best for our sons and daughters.

www.prostitutionresearch.com

Sam

Who suggested legalizing child prostitution?

being realistic i agree with you ronnie because everyone is looking for some way to get some sort of money now-a-days so that seems like the easiest and it should be legalized.I don't think that 13yr olds though should be out there.But we can't blame them they mind friends and get hurt but that is why they are parents so that they won't get hurt.So if they are hurt i think it should be the parents fault and they should be blamed

Although logically the comments advocating the legalization of prostitution make sense, they're very abstraction of prostitution to a business or entertainment is denegrating. I would suggest a little research. For example, look up the current information by Dr. Melissa Farley (supported by the World Health Organization and The American Psychiatric Association) that indicates a relationship between the act of prostitution and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder at levels exceeding Vietnam Vets. This isn't you and me going at it once or twice for dinner. Prostitution as a way of life is hardly so cut and dry. Many STDs are not stopped by condoms, including several that lead to cervical cancer and barrenness. Thus, the myth that regulation prevents permanent health risks is based on partial information. Moreover, even one indiscretion can lead to coital pain. After the honeymoon period of prostitution ends, women find the chronic penetration causes soreness and sex in that high volume is not only disagreeable, but down right traumatic. And this is only the violence found in legal prostitution, which has been found not to reduce criminality or dignify the women therein (Take the example of Australia).

Also, take into consideration that roughly 80%+ of all prostitutes come from sexually abusive pasts within their formative years. Thirty two percent of a sample of nearly 500 had vaginal penetration before the age of eleven. This supports other research that concludes that women able to prostitute themselves do so at the cost of psychological dissociation. This ability to separate body and mind is not copacetic, either (a quality that is markedly different from other "job choices"). Prostitutes are among the highest rates of suicide. In addition, most prostitutes end up taking drugs to cope with the ramifications of their vocation - legal or not. Clearly, the correlative drug use doesn't boost an image of a happy "Pretty Woman" type prostitute.

Also, the acquiescence(sp) to a human nature that is exploitative and oppertunistic - use or be used - is a nice justification but not much of an argument for anyone that would like to chide trangressions of social justice. Civil society, albeit flawed as it is, allows for the realization of possiblity; we are freed from survival conditions in order to participate in the formation of ideals that exceed animalian existence. It is beyond my ability to imagine that the pro-legalization advocates have never uttered an indignant "should" when slighted. After all, it is natural that someone "could" molest our children or mug our spouse, but "should" they? In the same way, "should" we advocate for exploitation.

Additional note: I am familiar with the site listed in the posting before mine, however there is a little contradictory research. Newer research (compiled in part from the Journal Of Sex Research) relates that most women do not work with a pimp. Granted most of the research from the site is done in SF, which may say something about locality. However, there are a cross-section of factors that predispose a woman to become a prostitute. Additionally, the depiction that women are under constant immanent coercion by pimps is almost an argument for legalization, where pimps would be either eliminated or legally culpable.

I currently am an assistant to a female escort. I'm also her boyfriend, but I met her as a client. I drive her, helped her with her credit (she was in a tight spot when we met) and I help her with her kids.

I don't know much about escorting in other countries, but here in the US I've become an insider in the business. I can tell you that most escorts on the web are independents, eschewing pimps, and most have kids they're trying to feed and care for after failing to find enough work in the corporate sector following a divorce.

Pimping, child prostitution and human traficking are different issues that should certainly be addressed, but it is bizzarre to lump them into consentual sex between two adults with monetary exchange involved. Women who are so vehemently against prostitution seem to have an abiding hatred and disdain for men and believe that all sex is rape.

My girlfriend and I are both going back to college to improve our lives and her ability to earn what she does is helping her move on to another career. She doesn't want to stay in the business forever, but she would much prefer it to be legal. The fear of arrest and resultant paranoia can be intense.

One thing escorting does for her is shatter the income barrier for a woman without a college education. She makes fantastic income and is able to support herself and three children. She isn't pimped or abused or addicted to any substances and she is very careful and safe.

As far as disease are concerned, they are considered an occupational hazzard, but with proper medical treatment most cervical dangers stemming from HPV (as mentioned before) can be prevented and treated. Other blue-collar professions can cause horrific physical damage to the practitioner, such as repetitive motion syndrome in factory workers, arthritis and injury in professional atheletes, deformities of the feet for ballet dancers.

I would conclude by saying this: If a woman chooses to become a provider (that's the name by which they prefer to be called) and she can prove she is not being pimped or exploited, and can prove also that she is drug and disease free, and agrees to weekly check ups and exams - then there is no reason not to allow her to do and be what she chooses to do and be in order to make her living in the world.

All the evils of child exploitation and trafficking and rape should be fought tooth and nail. At the same time, they should not be lumped together with consensual sex for hire. In a perfect world the money from the licensing and taxing of adult sexual services should go to programs that address the above social ills. Then everyone would win.

"If a woman chooses to become a provider (that's the name by which they prefer to be called) and she can prove she is not being pimped or exploited, and can prove also that she is drug and disease free, and agrees to weekly check ups and exams - then there is no reason not to allow her to do and be what she chooses to do and be in order to make her living in the world."

Sure would be nice if some lawmakers could see the sense of this.

Dave


[NB: The double arrowhead method of quoting text is incompatible with this technology. PLEASE SET A GOOD EXAMPLE BY NOT USING IT. Thank you]

Prostitution is legal here, makes sense to me, I don't get how it can be illegal in the first place, consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want, regardless if money changes hands or not.

Where are you that it's legal, Luke?

Dave

Having done some background reading on both sides of the issues, especially between #22, 25, & 27, I have to agree that there is a big distinction between legalized prostitution and the prostitution or exploitation of kids and/or the unwilling, and on the whole, the argument for the benefits of legalizing it rather outweigh those against. However, in order to make it work, it would have to be very strictly controlled and licensed, to ensure no coercion by pimps or organizations, & no underage workers. There would also need to be draconian - and I do mean severe - penalties, NOT against the prostitute, but against the john or the 'manager/pimp/escort' both, for violating not only the working regulations, but also the laws against coercion, exploitation, and especially underage prostitutes. I mean something that would make a man stop & think, like prison with hard labor - building roads, etc. No sitting in a prison reading books, taking college courses, watching TV, or working out, no parole.

I do think requiring licensing & periodic health inspections would go a long way towards protecting both the worker & her/his clients, from disease and abuse. Unionizing would be even better. I would also suggest that terms like "whore" & "prostitute" be dropped, since they themselves are perjorative. Of COURSE a woman is going to feel tainted, if her job title is 'whore' or 'hooker' or 'prostitute'. The term above, "provider" or "social provider" seems acceptable, but the workers could set that terminology themselves - and require the public to use it.

I have a friend who makes her living as a demimonde (as she calls herself), & has been doing so since college, at first because she needed additional funds to get by, and then because she liked it: she screens her clients, gets to meet clean, well-dressed men & interesting people & go to fantastic places, and afterwards ... well, she must know some fancy moves because she has some regulars she's "dated" for years. She dresses well, she's groomed, clean in body & behavior (she speaks very well, and like the Japanese Geisha, can discuss almost anything with anyone); obviously she's the upper end of the trade, but I think regulation would certainly improve the treatment & quality of life for the average street worker as well as the quality of service for the customer, by providing legal, safe surroundings and standards of behavior on both sides. And then, of course, there's always the tax income to consider.

During the civil war, at least one battalion was served by a regular corps of their own "ladies", who were examined weekly, received regular stipends, were addressed as "ma'am" & seem to have been shown all the courtesies by the men & officers. Morale (presumeably for all parties; the troops were the only ones specifically named) was high, health was good (not counting damage done by armaments), & crimes & violence among the men themselves were abnormally low. It would seem even the presence of 'ladies of the evening' can lend a homey & civilizing touch to a bunch of men, given the right conditions.

People usually will behave to expectation - i.e. how they're treated. Treat them like animals, & they behave accordingly, as France is currently demonstrating. Or treat them like ladies & gentlemen, and except for the odd hard case, they will respond to the way they are perceived.

Did you hear about the man who got stiffed by a prostitute? Well, we are all getting stiffed by the continuing illegality of prostitution. That the buying and selling of sex should still be illegal in this day and age is absolutely ridiculous. An act is not wrong simply because it is illegal. Prostitution is illegal, not wrong. It is far worse illegal than it could ever be if it were decriminalized. The laws against prostitution are stupid, counterproductive, asinine, medieval, influenced by religion, puritanism and other puerilities and just plain crazy. Prostitution creates jobs, generates tax revenues, (or would, if it was legal) and spreads a lot of joy and happiness, among other things. Sex is a basic biological and psychological necessity and as such has as much right to be a marketable commodity as food or drink. If sex is good, the sale of sex cannot be bad. It is a valuable social service and only dimwits and imbeciles are opposed to its legalization.

I found the comments of the fellow whose girlfriend is an escort mowst interesting. Particularly becxause he mentioned the number of women who are not subject to control by pimps. Live and learn.

In Israel, prostitution is legal. But it has not prevented a huge trade in female sex slaves, imported from Moldava and the Ukraine often over the Sinai border with Egypt by Bedouin. There is much money to be made in this business, (though the prostitute sees little of it) and this country's mafia gangs can buy the cops for a few thousand shekels - a cop making NIS 4,000 ($870) a month, which is what many cops make here, is easy to buy.

The result is that prostitutes in Israel are nearly all controlled by pimps. I can't comment on how this would translate to the States, but I can speculate that in the poorer states, only the pimps would benefit from legalization, being able to pay off poorly paid cops easily...

"I would conclude by saying this: If a woman chooses to become a provider (that's the name by which they prefer to be called) and she can prove she is not being pimped or exploited, and can prove also that she is drug and disease free, and agrees to weekly check ups and exams - then there is no reason not to allow her to do and be what she chooses to do and be in order to make her living in the world."

Too sensible. The moralistic, control-freak mainstream wouldn't accept people using their own bodies as they see fit, however reasonable it sounds to intelligent humans. Pity. Law enforcement should be focused on stuff that really matters.

The profession of sex work is not for everybody. Just as being a nurse, a fire fighter, a lawyer, doctor, etc. Every individual has their own unique traits that lead them into their present professions. It takes a special person to become a sex worker. Not everyone can be an athlete or a model either.

Having been in the the sex trade myself I have heard many say that they wouldn't want their sisters, mothers, daughters to be in the business and so fear having it become legalized or decriminalized. Poppy cock! Not every woman wants to be in the sex trade. I for one wouldn't want to see my daughter become a police officer because of the inherent risks but would fully support her if she decided to do so.

If sex work became legalized and decriminalized I would fully support her if she choose that as a profession as well. This should be the woman/mans choice and it is no one elses business to tell them otherwise. That is what is wrong with America today. People think its the governments job to protect people from themselves and it is not.

Consentual crimes do not harm people or property. The very fact that the morals of those in government are not in line with sex workers does not give them the right to enact laws against sex work. That is against our vary fundamental rights in the country, our free rights and our right to privacy.

As George Washington once said in 1796 at the Treaty of Tripoli, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion". Laws against consensual activities violate the separation of church and state, threatening the freedom of and from Religion. prostitutionintheusa.com

i dont think this is right. they seell there bodies && they might get pregnat. there gonna feel assulted && raped.

To those of you who agree:
I wonder how you'd react to see your daughter getting picked up by some guy called Buck

(my name's buck, and i'm here to fuck...see kill bill)

Since prostitution is illegal everywhere except Nevada, any "consent" given by prostitutes is void since no one has capacity to consent to illegality.

That makes all prostitution rape, and any money received a gift for his violation of rape.

But in violation of law, both may be held for illegalities: her for prostitution, him for rape.

Technically, no prostitute can be arrested without the client being arrested since that would be application of law unfairly to her and not to him, essentially a violation of 14th Amendment, and discriminatory application of laws.

"Since prostitution is illegal everywhere except Nevada, any "consent" given by prostitutes is void since no one has capacity to consent to illegality.

That makes all prostitution rape..."

No, it just makes it illegal."

Except in NV.

It should be legalized everywhere.

The actual act of sex, to which the prostitute consents , is not illegal; it's the payment for it which is illegal.

The whole idea of payment for sex is silly; ALL sex is paid for, one way or another.

Should be:

"The whole idea of payment for sex being illegal is silly...

"ALL sex is paid for, one way or another."

what you saying there clavos? and how do i get paid?

and i do see the wide hole i left open there. so, don't think about being clever.

You have a wide hole?

And you can leave it open?

There are people who will pay good money to...

;-)

OK, LOOK YOU GUYS! This is what it comes down to in my book. An it is also common knowledge in the psychological world as far as the effect goes...

Sex is really deep stuff. On any level. I will use the female as an example. It applies to men also.

OK, when a dick goes into a female, what happens is you are actually touching souls, whether you like it or not. THAT PERSON AND DICK BECOMES PART OF YOUR PERSONAL MAKEUP!!! So what happens is that the female becomes so loaded down with human energies that are NOT hers, in time she has no idea which way is up! It sure makes it difficult for the female to even talk in a straight line. Her life becomes a struggle of trying to become herself when other people are badsically telling her what to do.

Sh usually gets accussed of being 'memtally ill' or something. When the problem is majorly environmental.

In my experience, every woman I have ever been with (even a one nighter after a gig) becomes a cherished part of my soul, forever, in some way be it minor or not. If negative in experience, one needs the chance to exspunge such damage. In the case of a prostitute, lots of very ugly damage to exspunge. The reason for sex with a prostitute makes it ugly. Very selfish. On both parties parts..

In the case of a woman used as a prostitute for a 'johns' advantage (still the case in legal brothels, profit for the brothel) you do have a sex slave. It is good johns get busted also. It is a crime against humanity.

Statistically, I'm sure that you will find that a majority of johns are outright, hardwired sociopaths. A sociopath is unable to really even know what 'love' actually is, though they think they do. Love is just a word that actually defines their self absorbed selfishness. And are very dangerous in their reaction to not getting their way. And the actions of their reaction is unpredictable, but the type of reaction can be predicted if you look deeply into the situation.
Ted Bundy, anyone? See the "Sociopath Next Door" article on BlogCritics.

The female may inadvertantly fall into such a trap, due to a ignored upbringing with some abuse, misunderstanding, etc. Throw a rape or two in there and...poor woman! dammit, someone reach out and understand and help her become herself. She may know herself but has a lot of obstacles to overcome to actually 'be' herself. the quality human that does exist beneath this damage.

Then, in somecases the sociopathic john (although not a john anymore) sticks around in the woman who he destoyed. But still telling her what to do. They are still control freaks. That part never goes away in a sociopath. They are hardwired. The woman cannot escape! And the john is claiming to be 'her best friend'. The reality is that the x-john is forcing this person to be his best friend since he is anti-social in nature and is incapable of having any friends.

Drug use and suicide are the only escape for a woman under such dynamics. The only answer is the x-john to be completely exspunged from the woman's life. Then she can start exspunging every goddamn ugly, selfish, abusive human energy fucked into her.

I do have some very hardcore evidence of such. Yes, the damaged woman is not what the outer world is made to believe about this woman. When the x-john is around, being a 'best friend', that only trggers the mind of the woman back to ugly ways as an escape.... The x-john has to go. Pay up a huge sum of money to give the woman a chance in life and sit in the pokey for a long time. And be gone for good out of this woman's life.

The example I have posted exists out there more than you know. It is an angle, but at the same time parts of what I posted exists clear across the board. Figure it out.

Prostitution, legal or illegal? hhhmmm...I don't know. But the way it is handled right now by law (arrest them, throw them in jail then kick them out) is not right.

OK, that is my rant. Get it?

ugh!,
DM

I'm not even going to try for a better rejoinder than Chris's.

chris--dammit. you took my gotcha and gotchaed my gotcha.

as nick cave would say, "i'll crawl over fifty good pussies just to get one fat boy's asshole."

douglas, you're wired all weird.

ZingZing,

No, not weird at all. Look into the subject. There is actual credible information from top sources that support the effect of sex on a human being in a psychological manner.

There is a reason rape carries such a huge penalty. Violation of the mind body and soul. A prostitute is constantly raping herself, basically.

Try to understand this for your own personal evolvement. Or does your mind not have any thumbs? LOL

The example I posted actually is out there in society. Oh yes it is. It is just an example but takes place in many forms of prostitution.

Anyway, many out there know exactly what I am saying. What can I say? I am a hardcore feminist in a male body.

Zing, OK, I am weird from the standpoint of having a very complex way of presenting a case. Regardless, the point is solid, and those who have been there would agree...

As Forrest Gump would say:

"Life is like a box of weirdos..."

Clavos, yes, very good! Who is the weirdo here? You or me? The people who understand the reality in what i am saying say you are weird, those who don't get it say I am weird.

You are a weirdo? Me too! Join the club. We all are weirdos in someone's mind. the vote would come out 50-50 if we took a poll.

Mos def, troll...

OK you clavos...you got my advocate side kicking in.

Ok, you try to dismiss the legitimacy of my rant with your 'weirdo' barbs, which tells the story of many women out there as an example. So by doing that, you know you just slammed a huge population of women who have been abused, sex-slaved for the good of a male populations selfishness? More women than you think experience some form of the dynamics I dispalyed above.

Oh yeah, I have seen a variety of the same example (plus the example itself) from the inside out. But, I guess such pig-headed thoughts like yours only display what you are really all about.

Before I could figure if prostitution should be legal or not, I would need statistics on complete psychological profile information on the women who are prostitutes in legal brothels, or call girls in disguised sex rings . I am sure all of them have a harsh story in life that has led them there. In any healthy upbringing, who would want to grow up to be someone who fucks crusty sick men for chump change or crack, their escape from the reality of theirs lives? It is not an easy thing to get out of in the brainwashed trappings of the mind.

I already have a good knowledge of what leads the street hooker to their demise. It is a road to violation and death. None are proud or satisfied with life, that is for sure.

Einstein was thought to be a weirdo until people figured out what he was up to. I ain't Einstein, but there are a few things I understand about women. A lot of women think some pretty harsh words about you now. Those who can even get to Blogcritics and read your words.

Yeah, the equality of women has a long ways to go with men like you around. I basically told a story of women who are abused in horrific ways driven there by upbringing and the environment of sick men who take advantage of such women. It becomes an accepted part of life. Drugs and suicide prevail as an escape from the torture.

Ever find a prostitute who is truly happy and evolved in their personality? No. Such an existance is out of their comfort zone. They don't have a chance to find it due to the desperation of life. Being around such an environment and reminders of such are merely a trigger to never be happy and finding a way to desperately escape.

Funny thing, I was watching Steve Wilkos today on TV. He tackled the very subject talked about on this thread since I jumped in with my outlook. You wanna know what he thought? Let me say he would understand every word I said and be able to add to it.

OK, Clavos, I could rip your sexist attitude apart. I actually made a very serious feminist statement above. Don't get it? You will think I am a genius if you ever do figure it out. but I doubt you will...

DM

I mean this in the kindest way, Doug, but you're just a little bit nuts, Amigo.

Sex is not necessarily 'touching souls'. You seem to have confused the physical act with something more metaphysical like 'love'.

The realitty of prostitution is much simpler and more rational. The illegality of the practice of exchanging meaningless physical gratification for money is what makes it possible to exploit women and force them into prostitution. Take away the illegality and you make it possible to eliminate the exploitation.

The crime is NOT the exchange of sex for money. The crime is all of the violence and exploitation which the law makes possible by forcing the practice underground.

Dave

Dave's right, Doug.

It's the illegality that makes it seamy.

Hell, the girls in NV even have a union now.

But, in any case, I don't think your advocacy for women is weird.

Your (apparently) profound belief in astrology definitely is...

It's been legal in Australia for decades, with the result that it's taken the criminality out of it.

People who run brothels these days tend to be ordinary business people. Well, I say ordinary, but no one really thinks a person who runs a brothel is THAT ordinary. But, still ...

Prostitutes now pay tax, as do the brothel operators - who are required to submit regular Business Activity statements to the tax office to make sure they aren't skimming off the top.

To run a brothel, operators also have to get consent from the local council.

It all boils down to making something that would exist anyway and be run by criminals just something fairly run of the mill. Most of the women working in brothels aren't drug-addicted either, these days as a result so there's another bonus.

Of course, it was always going to happen in pragmatic, convict-descended Australia before it did in Puritan-evolved America.

The one thing that does remain illegal in some states and jurisdictions is soliciting for sex.

Ie, they don't want drug-addicted streetwalkers run by criminal pimps out there hustling for business.

For the most part, it seems to have worked.

We even had one situation where a council employee had to actually have sex with a prostitute inside an illegally established brothel to establish whether that was actually part of the service on offer. My understanding was that the operator had been granted a licence only to run a "massage" joint.

Sounds bizarre, I know, but it was the only way to make sure.

It was all over the newspapers here a while back, accompanied by much tittering and pub-talk among blokes along the lines of "Where do I sign up".

No, you missed a very crucial point. I said I need psychological profile on our 'legal prostitutes. Those counselors experienced in the sex field can give you a very precise timeline on when and how those who are overly sexually active when such symptoms of the overloaded psyche kick in.

this is not crazy shit. This is something that there is actual educated information about.

because the sexuality applies to not only prostitutes, but to sleazy girls/guys also. Might want to attend a few Sex Addict Anonymous meetings to catch an idea what I am talking about.

As for the astrology, it just is. Not some weird magical concept. My point was kinda proven in the Go to Sleep, Hillary article. The astrology of Presidents part when quite a majority were of water sign or around Scorpio. I know it makes no sense to you. But neither does Japanese or Triganomotry (assuming your are not a mathmetician or studied in foriegn language).

Well, let me put it this way, anyone who believes in God is pretty damn weird. what proof do we have of that? Anyway...just a point. Not slamming into God believers. Guess what! I could believe also! But I won't say anything at this point for sake of shock value...

But, typical. You missed a lot of what was being said. The physical vs. the metaphysical? Like I said, whether you like it or not, it goes down in a very real way. There is a lot that goes on in a very personal way that cannot be avoided. Like I said, hang out at SA meetings to gather some detail of just the effect of sexuality on the personal psyche. Sure, maybe they have had sex at their own will, but there is an effect...

Anyway, it takes a while to figure it out. Like I said, people who have a healthy, nurturigng upbringing don't aspire to fuck crusty guys all day.

Oh well, you missed that part.

I know! Have any kids? Sure thing, guide them torwards prostitution as a fine career! Tell your daughter "hey, you can suck dicks and screw for money when you grow up!" Give her some brochures to interest her.

The gals in NV have a union? Good. That is simply making their situation better. Like I said, I need to know more about the whole mentality of the women involved.

Yup, call me weird, but study the psychological effects first. Then I will think of your response as something more than denial of a not healthy attitude.

The exploitation always exists. that is how the money comes in. Exploiting women (or men or sheep and donkeys...) Just like selling CDs, exploitation of music. Adding the money to it does not remove the concept of exploitation. It is simply taking money for being exploited.

Anyway... some never get it. Call me weird, but my friend, there is a huge population that has much meaner words for those who don't get it.

You don't get it. Probably never will. Or maybe you will at some point in life...

Certain factors I need to know before making an opinion on legal or no on the prostitution deal.

geez, it is friday night. point made... is there any soccer on TV? Or a dear friend who wants to have sex? Sex by coersion? Believe me, it happes a lot. You would not believe how often that happens. Women who end up fucking a guy just o get rid of him. then the guy thinks "I fucked her, cool" Not cool. But that is why she fucked you, dude. Had nothing to do with her wanting to. It had everything to do with getting rid of your overly aggressive tactics.

A hell of a date. There are a ton of women out there who know my words are not weird...

Funny I get reactions from guys....says lots about the reality of it all....

ugh!
DM

The man doth protest too much, methinks

Aye, mate, he doth.

And he maketh not any sense...

Dost thou suggesteth that he art a gibberer of the first order?

As for the astrology, it just is. Not some weird magical concept. My point was kinda proven in the Go to Sleep, Hillary article. The astrology of Presidents part when quite a majority were of water sign or around Scorpio.

Er, no, sorry, Doug. Your 'quite a majority' of water-sign Presidents was five Scorpios, four Pisces and four Cancers - a total of 13 out of 42. Which is, as you'd expect, not much more than one-fourth of them. And that's from a pretty small set.

Check back with me in another 200-odd years and I guarantee you the number of water-sign Presidents will be even more exactly one in four.

On astrology.

My son when he was in his mid-to-late teens got into trouble with the law. Although he has no convictions, he did a couple of stupid things, at least one of which was down to a pig-headed refusal to obey directions from the police - at McDonald's, of all the places you could pick.

His mother said: "I think it's because he's a Taurean".

Wrong. It had nothing to do with the sky.

The real story: he was drunk, 18, rude, bolshy, wilful and stupid.

Yup, what ever the exact number is, 4 of 12? I was bouncing off what ever numbers were given on the other thread. Without checking. It was just made to sound big in the other comment.

btw, the comment regarding having two people with the same birthday...It takes a room with 20 people in it to have 2 people with the same birthday. A statistical engineer person told me that one.

The Taurean deal? Yeah, the mo-fo was drunk. Bottom line. How the astrology comes into play is a drunk Taurean vs. a drunk somthing else you might get a different drunk reaction. But drunk is drunk. A drunk person who was neglected and beaten by his parents vs. drunk but healthy in upbringing. all these play a factor. But drunk is the whole deal on that one. Quite an accelerant.

And I protest too much? It is a case of saying things in the name of people who DON'T HAVE A VOICE in society. I am amazed at how certain people in our USA life just get shoved into cracks and oppressed in our modern times. And the oppressor get way with it!!! Women's rights are not as advanced as we fool ourselves into believing.

I protest oo much? when people still have an oppressive attitude, I will protest to he point of...well, a particular song lyric goes "I'd rather go to hell than give another inch, especially when I'm right". Kelly wrote than one c1985.

Well, I am a relentless Scorpion! hehehe... Elsa BlogCritics would get that one. I am not as hardcore as her about it all, but I do respect the fact that it is an element of life on earth.

STAYING ON SUBJECT, legal prostitution? I don't have the info I need yet. It comes down to this: What puts a woman or man or midget or donkey in that position? Usually it is abuse and damage or force in upbringing.

so say you visit a prostitute. Me, as a human am not going to lay more damage and abuse on one who has experienced too much of that. As a human, I am not going to continue such an evil cycle to anyone.

Sure, they may lure you in as habit of their damage. Yeah, sometimes the 'customer' becomes an outlet for their damage (they took your wallet or called the cops when it wasn't you by projecting their anger at you, etc.) But... overall, give these women a chance to break the damage cycle and have a chance at life. That is how you break down the criminal element. Legalizing it without dealing with the personal side of it does no good. The social damage still exists.

Anyway, that is the deal. Do I protest too much? Hey, if it got someone to see what is going on and understand, that is what it takes...

Very detailed stuff. Can't make decisions on these type of issues without digging deep into the human element.

hhhmmm...I saw a lot in this thread. Had to push peoples buttons, but I saw what I needed to know. There is a faction of society that thinks it is OK to just go fuck women. NOT COOL.

Well, maybe if those guys want to go play PULP FICTION in the basement...I can find a gomer or two that will play with you...

next article, please...
DM

"There is a faction of society that thinks it is OK to just go fuck women."

And another faction that thinks it's OK to "just go fuck guys."

So what? Fucking is part of life.

In fact, without it, in short order there would be no life.

In re prostitution: Not for nothing is it referred to as the world's oldest profession; you will never eradicate it short of eradicating the human race.

At least by legalizing it, we can regulate it and control it to where it's less hazardous for all concerned, but especially for the women.

Clavos, WHAT!!!!????? WHAT!!??

Unevolved humanoids like you is the reason it is illegal!!!

Have you ever had a real girlfriend?

Do you realize what you just said in comment #63?

You really don't have a clue, do you?

wow doug.

he said men and women like to fuck, you're not going to get rid of prostitution until you get rid of humans, and that legal prostitution makes it safer.

all points that are true. even a real hardcore feminist without her head up her ass would have to concede those as facts.

Gee guys,

In the latest reincarnation of this thread, it appears that only guys are talking about this topic. Given that women are usually the prostitutes, it would be interesting to see a female voice giving an opinion....

Ruvy!!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!! You get it! To some degree!!!! Our reasoning may differ. Or we may be right on to the finite detail of the subject.

I would love to hear a female voice in all this. A female who has knowledge in the runnings of the psyche of a prostitute.

All I can do is be a voice for the population who gets ignored and shoved in the cracks.

Thank you for bringing that up, Ruvy. That one has had me scratching my head the whole way thru.

Zing #65. Geez... sure, men and women do like to fuck. That isn't the point. Fucking is deep shit. Actually in the term fuck,

If you are just fucking, you are fucking around in the game of life. Legal or not, the social damage still exists. It comes down to human disregard.

I am amazed you have not figured that out at all. No, I guess I am not amazed. Typical...

Why do so many women have an attitude against the male population? Read above.

"fuck" is a term meaning to have sex. read it as nothing else. it does not factor in love, or even a lack of love. it doesn't even factor in lust. it was clavos' word, but i assume we are talking about the physical act here. reduced to that level (which it has to be if we are talking about prostitution,) it is almost secondary. it's going to happen either way, legal or not. what won't happen with legalization is the connection of prostitution to the mafia and the drug trade. what will happen is that prostitutes will be tested an receive treatment for STDs.

that's what is being discussed here. not how sex affects the human mind. besides, how do you think the pimp-prostitute relationship affects the mind of the prostitute?

as far as your "fucking around in the game of life/human disregard" mumbo-jumbo goes, i think you'll find that "just wanting a fuck" is neither a male or a female peculiarity. i'm well past those days.

prostitution is going to happen either way. you seem content to leave prostitutes to be beaten, drug-addled and with no way of escape. legalizing it just removes the criminal (mafia, pimp, drugs) from what will happen anyway.

in other words, you are envisioning some fantasy where prostitution does not exist. that would be fine. but it's not reality.

This same controversy starts up whenever there are serious public-interest lawsuits to initiate -- the underlying issue being that sexual intercourse perpetuates fallacies as much as it does realities. It is ridiculous and offensive to champion prostitution as way to procure testimonies and information to assist current court-action lawsuits, as a way to commpel/force/squeeze language and narratives from witnesses, onlookers and others.

Thinking about inventing something? Legalized prostitution could set up an encounter that pins both mind and body to route your best ideas elsewhere. All the '-stitution' words signify a direct usage of the human body, in ways that are not always beneficial.

Marcia...

Once again... HUH??!!??!!??

Prostitution has not always existed nor is there any good reason for it to continue to exist.

Before civilization there was no basis for prostitution. There is no evidence that anyone's role was primarily sexual. It might be possible that there could have been a male whose only function was studding, but women would have to at least share that role with childbearing and some rearing.

Currently, and for most of history, prostitution has been an economic relationship, with the woman, the exploited. It is generally for lack of other gainful opportunity that women find themselves prostitutes. The same can be said of marriage. Both of these depend on the general lack of social security and the inequality of the sexes.

The first thing that should be done is to decriminalize prostitution. No woman should be further exploited by society for an exploitation already befallen her.

Marcia, thank goodness someone uis close to getting it.

The comments by all these so called 'men', who really are not, based on their self absorbed comments. In essence, it is all a form of rape. legal or not.

Talk to any crack whore or long time hooker. You will see what the deal is about sex. All the pro legal prostitution comments are only valid in a society of robots. Not humans.

Oh funny? I have a feeling that all you pro-prostitution guys have been talking to girls lately and finding that you guys really know nothing about the realities of the deal.

Well, you are doing a good job of repelling the women. That is why you are really pro-prostitution.

Doug,

You're trying to bail out the ocean with a teacup.

You may not realize it, but one way or another, you have paid a quid pro quo for every time you've gotten laid in your life.

And there's nothing wrong with that; it's just nature.

SEX!

Wow. What else could stir up so many articles and so many moral positions, so many political positions.

After reviewing my own sexual history and trying to find the proper moral position that would exculpate myself while properly damning all others....I've given up.

I'll leave it to the rest of you, those with less personal chagrin over their own histories, to carry the Moral Torch forward.

Hold it! Let me just say that sex is a very healthy thing for mind and body OR a very damaging thing to such.

Sex in a healthy situation is positive. Sex in a non-healthy manner is very destructive. Healthy is a term I am using in reference to that mind-body-soul perspective.

Oh, the worlds oldest profession? I always thought hunting and gathering was. hehe

anyway, my angle on all this is that legal or not the personal damage still exists. then with legality, the competition level goes up. the price goes down. Oh gosh. Poor woman! Giving oneself up in a psychiatric violent way for chump change to fight ones personal poverty...

gosh...
DM

I got it!!! We should take this discussion to editorial opinion TV. BLUEBALL with Chris Matthews?

Awe geez, sorry about that folks... I could not resist the pun from Hardball...

OK, let me put the whole issue in these terms. Sexual attraction is healthy if the chemical attraction exists in both parties involved. How many prostitutes have any sort of that 'chemical attraction' with everyone they have sex with? Probably .002% of the times.

If there is no attraction, the act of sex becomes psychiatrically violent.

Example: I have been aware of situations where a 'john' has a whore in situations where she is crying during the act of sex to have such violence stop. Legal or not, the mighty dollar for the john or legal brothel rules the situation. This is something that causes very deep intense psychological damage. Could you imagine this happening to someone who already has personal issues before prostitution lifestyle takes place. Talk about rubbing ones nose in it!

Geez, I'm going to turn the channel back to Blueball...

DM

Chris Matthews is a jackass.

I guess every time I make love to my wife over the last 20 years I have been psychiatrically violated, bcause i have never been sexually attracted to my wife and I know many other men in the same boat; and women not attracted to there husbands. We all are prostitutes we give, take, trade, accomodate. I just another moranic retard things us humans like to debate about tell we get our rocks off.

Duke, you bring up a good point....but, hhhmmm...also a big question in the whole sexual violation world.

Let me just say that with me, when involved in sexual activity, if I detect the SLIGHTEST discomfort, confusion (say a gal picks me up after a gig, then in the middle of things she starts to wonder about her marriage or something), etc. I do pull out!!! Stop the emotional violation. Sit back and smoke a joint or something. Step away from discovered violation and get into nurturing. It is kinda difficult to detect with a woman who is damaged and numb to the whole sex process. Both parties involved must be in to each other equally.

Rocks off? Yes! Don't be throwing rocks at your partner.

Anyway, I chimed in because I had a discussion with an old friend (that I have not heard from for quite a while) who does/has done the prostitution thing. Yeah, every single word I said above about the psyche, personal damage, etc. is very true.

Poor girl. Soul is trashed. Lost in life. Can't really hang on to herself. Or even find herself. And this is someone who did have a chance in life. No dummy, but no life now... Just a slave to the thick forest of existance.

Anyway,
DM