Extremely well said, Eric. Except, of course, for the RACISM!

I knew you were going to say that.

NC, are you a member of the SCV, LOS, CofCC, or all three?

I'm not sure about this, but I heard he was a member of the YMCA, the MOUSE, and the EIEIO.

Mark Steyn is twisting things.

Kilroy Silk wasn't fired for "criticising the Saudi government". He was fired for a looks, walks and quacks like a racist rant.

It may be that his real crime was poor use of language, in which he failed to distinguish clearly between arab peoples and arab governments. But an awful lot of people vociferously supporting him are out-and-out racists.

Eric, I'm not accusing you of racism, yet. But I think you read a lot of racist warblogs, and you're in danger of being corrupted by them.

1) I very rarely read blogs, other than what appears here. I just don't have time anymore - it takes 10 hours a day just to run this site.

And which of these blogs are "racist," I wonder? Those you don't agree with? Can it be that YOU have actually read them - whatever they are - and not been corrupted by them? How can this be? Don't they have the power to grip and transform the soul?

2) I will ask for the hundredth fucking time: what does any of this have to do with racism?

How would one go about criticizing the rot at the core of mainstream Islam - even right here in the USA - and the putrescence at the heart of Arab political culture without being called a racist? Is this possible? Or is criticism of anything to do with the Arab or Islamic world inherently racist?

And this is not rhetorical - I want a goddamned answer because I am absolutely fed up beyond the top of my head with this ridiculous dogshit.

Are Arabs a race? I thought they were of the Semitic peoples, which also includes Jews. Are the Persians a race? Is Islam a race? What is the story here?

What Tim said.

Er, what are the SCV, LOS and CoCC?

I'm so provincial!

Like Tim said. He nailed it.

And, while I have your attention, E.O., lemme say that I was miffed earlier today. I was gonna post the same deep thought posted above. All three words. But, I had taken my PDA with me instead of my laptop. I signed into WiFi, typed away and tried to post a comment at Blogcritics. At that point I was rudely interrupted. Blogcritics does not support posting from Palm browers compatible with OS 5. Nor is it possible to view the screen proportionately, though I've heard there is easy code for that. I awaiteth relief.

"But, if you're Tom Paulin and you incite murder, in a part of the world where folks need little incitement to murder, as part of a non-factual emotive rant about how "Brooklyn-born" Jewish settlers on the West Bank "should be shot dead" because "they are Nazis" and "I feel nothing but hatred for them", the BBC will keep you on the air, kibitzing (as the Zionists would say) with the creme de la creme of London's cultural arbiters each week. Message: this behaviour is completely acceptable."

And these statements aren't 'racist'?

Technical miffage I can handle and I will ask Phillip to look into it.

As far as what Tim said, in a slightly calmer mood, I reiterate: since I have made such efforts to disentangle the threads of religion, politics, culture and, to my bafflement, race, is it possible to criticize Arabs or Muslims on political, cultural or religious grounds without being racist?

debbie, in keeping with my perspective on the matter, I wouldn't cal these statements "racist" since Jews aren't a race - I would call them the most vehement and vile form of anti-Semitism I have encountered this side of fascism.

It looks like I hit a raw nerve....

since I have made such efforts to disentangle the threads of religion, politics, culture and, to my bafflement, race, is it possible to criticize Arabs or Muslims on political, cultural or religious grounds without being racist?

By choosing your words very carefully, and making it abundantly clear you're not demonising all Muslims or all Arabs, and not making blanket generalisations. Just like I have to convince my left-wing brother that not all Americans are a cross between Jerry Falwell and Kenneth Lay.

Note that critics of Israel's security policies have to take the same amount of care, to avoid accusations of Anti-Semitism.

As for 'Racist Warblogs', any blog that repeatedly uses deliberately insulting terms like "Religion of Peace(TM)" or "ROPMA", and makes it clear they hold all Moslems and all Arabs in complete contempt counts as racist in my book. I suppose you could argue that hating a religion rather than a race isn't technically racism, but to me that's just splitting hairs; the rhetoric and the emotions are similar, and the end results are depressingly similar; exhibit A: Northern Ireland. exhibit B, the disintegration of Yugoslavia.

Oh, and Tom Paulin is an asshole. Having seen him appearing in the panel of critics on BBC2s "The Late Show", this sneering elitist twunt is a miserable excuse for human being; he's capable of making Germaine Greer sound sensible by comparison. But his nasty Anti-Semitism doesn't justify other people's racist outbursts. Two wrongs don't make a right.

A few words to explain where I'm coming from, and why I feel as strongly about thus subject as I do. As you know, I come from Britain, where we have about a couple of million Muslims out of a population of sixty million, most of them descendants of immigrants from the Indian subcontinent in the 1970s. I grew up in a town, Slough, where Muslims form perhaps 10% of the population (that's a guess since I don't have the actual figures, the actual figure may be higher or lower). In general we haven't experienced much really large-scale racial tension (especially in Slough), but there have been isolated problems in the past couple of years in a couple of northern towns with very high levels of unemployment; in these towns the white supremacist British National Party have been deliberately stirring things. What I don't want to see is a rising anti-muslim sentiment among the Anglo-Saxon population, because once the Muslims start to feel under siege it can only increase support for extremists within the Muslim community. I think you would agree that would be a Very Bad Thing.

When I read articles by Mark Steyn (the Robert Fisk of the right) and others implying that Britain is somehow halfway to Shaira, it sets alarm bells ringing in my head. All that ridiculous scare-mongering of that kind achieves is to embolden the Nazi skinhead thugs. For years, every time there's been a well-publicised racist outburst by some public figure, there's been a sharp spike in racially motivated assaults. In these times, such rhetoric could easily get people killed.

(This is getting to damned long for a mere comment, I need to polish it up and make it a blog posting in it's own right)

Like Tim said for the third time. (I'm using the laptop.)

Eric, we could say 'anti-Arabism.' But, the word 'race' has been used in a very broad sense for a long time. What are really cultures or tribes have been referred to as races. So, saying the hatred of Muslims or Arabs is racism has precedent. I'm not totally comfortable with it. It would be better if the word 'race,' which has little biological meaning, be deemphasized altogether. But, the status quo is that it gets used, and in this context.

Debbie's point is apropos. Someone can give an obviously racist opinion and turn around and say he was merely describing a 'culture' very easily.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Since I don't what site that is that uses those terms and/or abbreviations, I clearly don't read it/them.

Whether "racism" is commonly used to refer to religion or regions or whatever, let's not perpetuate the error. I have very consistent, specific criticisms about Arab/Islamic culture, most especially political culture, and certain aspects of the Islamic religion, or at least how it is practiced by a very substantial portion of the believers. This is not recist, this is not unreasonable, this shouldn't even be controversial.

Interesting agenda of not agitating the Muslim masses in the old hometown, but while it is not an unreasonable goal to promote the "moderate" Islamic position by not criticizing Muslims at all thereby giving the extremists a leg to stand on, I find this kind of self-censorship intellectually repugnant and morally unacceptable. This is exactly the kind of coddling and "off-limits" thinking that is at the core of the problem.

I'm not saying that all Muslims are above criticism; but I do believe ill-informed blanket attacks on Islam as a whole is only going to strengthen the extremists.

I believe the 'War on Terror' will only be won if we succesfully marginalise those extremists. Those who advocate a "clash of civilisations" between Islam and The West are playing into the hands of Al Queda and their ilk. Islam itself is not the enemy; the enemy is an extremist strain within Islam.

BTW, "The Late Review" is on TV at the moment, and that repellent Tom Paulin isn't there.

Fair enough Tim, I have no disagreement with your last statement - please tell Tom to fuck himself for me.

Just a couple notes, Tim. First, I don't understand why you haven't used this material in a blog entry. I, for one, would link to it. Second, you have been added to the blogroll at Mac-a-ro-nies. (Where, I've been known to say more than 'What Tim said.')