"white person clap" sounds like some STD to me.

Tdavid, if that's where your mind went, I sure won't complain. Never thought of it that way.

You've got the white person's clap!
No pill can cure you! No bromo can soothe you! And antibiotics don't work at all.

I agree with you, except I will add one thing. In order for it to be a white man's clap all it has to do is include the first beat. Any self respecting music fan who isn't listening to a march by John Philip Souza knows that you clap on 2 and 4.

Craig, you're right! The problem is, of course that most people are not "self respecting music fans," and what I REALLY have a problem with is people who don't know they have no rhythm.

I wish I could be more generous about this trait in other people, but I just can't. I'm musically inclined and have always been able to feel a groove. I realize that other people cannot-- is it too much to ask that these people know themselves well enough to sit out on the clapping?

Or at least follow my lead. I may not be able to dance, but as a drummer, I can always find the appropriate clapping beat. Umm, that is unless I am listening to Candiria or Meshuggah. :-)

Craig, I knew I liked ya! I'm mainly a bassist these days.

Traditionally (and there is a tradition here, oh yes!), the white person's clap consists of clapping on the 1 and 3 beats of a 4/4 meter, when the natural emphasis is on the 2 and 4 beats. You can see that in large audiences when a bunch of dorks are one beat out of sync with the music, so the net effect is that there are clapping sounds on all four beats -- the dorks (about 1/2 the crowd) and the rest (the eyerolling other 1/2) contributing equally. Quite maddening. Who are these people? Why are they mostly white? I used to blame Lawrence Welk and the polka, but now. I just don't know.

hey Johno, I play guitar and sing now. Any chance you live in the Cleveland area? I could use a good bass player. And a drummer for that matter.

Duane-- right-o!! That's a perfect description. Wish I'd thought of it. Damn you, Duane!!

I mean, Jezus. One and three?? What is this... Haydn?

Craig, sorry. Tho' I was born outside of Akron, I left Ohio some years ago and don't plan to be back any time soon to live.

Although, I AM planning to sneak out to the Great Lakes Brewing Co. for a meal and several beers while I'm home over the holidays. God, I miss that place. Massachusetts has some incredibly good beer, but nothing in the world is better than a fresh cask of Edmund Fitzgerald Porter.

*gets weepy for Ohio*

That is really funny. I am in Cleveland because I grew up here, but I spent the previous 4 years in Mass because I went to Boston U. Don't you ever get down to the Boston Beerworks over near Fenway? They have outstanding food and some good beers. maybe even as good as GLBC.

Craig, small world! I actually live in Salem, and the Salem Beer Works is the same company as the Boston BW. Now that their menu's better, I like to go there pretty often. Still, nothing-- NOTHING-- beats a steak and a beer at the Great Lakes. Or at least that's the way my memory has it.

Fair enough. GLBC is still one of the better places in Cleveland IMO. If you are interested over the holidays, I am playing at Peabody's (Euclid and 21st on CSU campus) on Sunday the 28th between 8 and 9 pm. It should be a rocking good time. I am playing guitar and singing originals with a guy backing me up on guitar.

It is also well known that men who clap on the 1 and 3 when the 2 and 4 jump up and pound on their chests also can't find their dicks with a divining rod.

That's true about the divining rod, Eric. But, to be fair and objective, this 1 and 3 thing is more of a woman's affliction than a man's. And the predilection of women to identify with the 1 and 3 becomes more prevalent with age --- just ask Wayne Newton about his typical audience. OK, ladies, one-TWO-three-FOUR.

Latin music has a clave' where there is a 3-2 or 2-3 clave' that is sometimes unheard, but felt, in the music.So claping on 2&4 is just the beginning.

Mike, too true. Not to mention the implied rhythms of bop... sometimes the 2-4 upbeats are buried under other stuff, leaving the listener to sort it out.

I wonder if people who listen to the radio even realize that Pink Floyd's "Money" is partially in 7/4 time? Can't dance to that!

To be fair, since I didn't grow up with Latin music, it took me a few years to feel the clave even when it was only implied, and on that count I can have sympathy for the few people who grew up in caves in the USA without ever hearing "Tutti Frutti" or "Midnight Train to Georgia."

But I found the clave, I found the backbeat, and I even found the clitoris. I just wish I could draw a map to these wonderful things. Wouldn't it make the world a better place?

"It is also well known that men who clap on the 1 and 3 when the 2 and 4 jump up and pound on their chests also can't find their dicks with a divining rod."

Um... I've never lost mine, but if I did I'm not sure I could find it with a divining rod either. Is that how lost dicks are normally located? 'Cause I figured they'd just follow the trail of blood or something.

JR, please recall the world of possibility opened by "Detachable Penis."

Johno, "Money" is actually in 5/4: 1-2-3, 1-2; 1-2-3, 1-2; but it's the thought that counts, my friend.

Eric, I beg to differ.
"Money" is in 7/4 grouped 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4, with a bridge in straight 4/4. I pity the poor saxophone who had to solo over that.

I think it's in 7/4. Until the line "Grab that cash..." where there's a bar or two of 4/4. And the guitar solo is in 4/4. (Yeah, they make the sax player solo over 7/4.)

Okay, you're right

The verses of "Money" are in 7/4. Actually, there are a lot of "popular" songs that are done in an asymmetric meter. Another slick example, is "Solsbury Hill" by Peter Gabriel, which is also in 7/4. Parts of "Tom Sawyer" by Rush are in 7/4. There is a section of "Supper's Ready" by Genesis called "Apocalypse in 9/8," which is in --- anybody? anybody? --- yes, 9/8. It's very complex and interesting. Check it out. Even the Foo Fighters have a couple of clever time signatures in their music. Tool is all over the place, and with polyrhythms, which is when different instruments play different meters. It's math --- drummer might be playing in 5/4, bass in 4/4. Every 20 beats ---5 measures for bass, 4 measures for drums --- the two parts converge. It's the concept of musical "tension and release" in action. Usually tension and release is evoked with the harmonic structure of a piece, but it makes an interesting effect when it's done with rhythm.

The main riff to "Kashmir" is three bars of 4/4 going by the drums. But if you follow the guitar pattern it can be counted as four bars of 6/8.

This reminds be of the scene in Don't Look Back where Dylan and his (I think) keyoard player were enthusiastically snapping their fingers on 1 and 3 to some very unswinging whitebread coctail jazz in the background. Initially offended my delicate jazzbo sensibilities until I caught on to what they were doing.

Hey guy! Just respect to you for what you are doing! And for you know exactly the idea what u r talking about!