He may have been an asshole.. but damnit he loved doing what he did. He had a genuine love for writing, being a musician and a performer. Although I've read some of his poetry and I don't think it's that good..
The Doors are still a powerful band now, and are my absolute favourite.
I'm 17 years old.

Thanks Jonathan, I agree with your assessment of Morrison and I admire your taste at 17. I think the best of the Doors' music has only gained in power over time. I wouldn't say they are my favorite, but they are near the top.

hah, i share two things with that bloke - i have the same first name, and i agree that the doors are a powerful band. Are, because their music is still around very much and still hits home. I love The End and Riders On The Storm but also LA Woman and Roadhouse Blues
Death is bad enough. Death brought about by excessive drinking, and that also extinguishes great talent, is BAAAAD

It's funny how we all say that it's a shame he died. But is it?
Wouldn't it suck to see Jim turn into Ozzy Osbourne?
It's almost good that he died so young. I don't want to imagine Jim old and stumbling around screaming the name of his wife.

His lyrics were pretty good.I especially
like "I am the burger king ,I can eat
anything..." Plus,he did a pretty mean
Vic Damone impression on "Touch Me"!

Richard Melzer recently wrote a cool article about them.

Plus, dying young saved us more crappy poetry and half-assed records. Is there another rock singer more over rated than Jimbo? The Doors did a decent hits album worth of work, but they don't rate up with the Monkees- let alone the major artists.

Al, you wish. The Monkees?! And I'm not a Monkee-hater, btw. I bet if you could somehow hear the Doors "fresh," free of the baggage of Jim's drunken excess and pretensions, you would appreciate what a good singer and lyricist he really was.

Al, got to agree with you there. There are a few decent Doors tracks but overall they were highly over-rated. He was in fact a great performer but a crap poet. Like Cobain, his snuffing it was the best career move he ever made.

As I have said ad nauseum, you have to separate out the non-rock stuff from his work with the Doors, but that isn't particularly difficult to do since all you have to do is listen to Doors records. But the native poetry of his best lyrics, his absolutely great voice and commanding stage presence are untopped if not unequaled. I understand and even sympatize with the anti-Morrison sentiment - ultimatley, he was impossible - but I will never get the anti-Doors thoughts. They are one of the greats and I seriously believe anyone who gives them a serious reassessment will come to realize both their both their accessibility and their depth.

Comparing them to the monkees is a bit harsh :)
Also, last I checked the doors had 3 other members who were all pretty talented too. Krieger is pretty awesome on keyboards.

Krieger is actually guitar and Manzarek keyboards, but you are right about the talent - Krieger wrote the music to "Light My Fire" and Manzarek's keyboard was the center of the group's sound.

Partially I pick the comparison because I consider the Monkees significantly artistically underrated. You might argue over to whom to give the credit for the Monkees, as most of their songs were not written by the four guys in the video.

Nonetheless, you conjure up a CD compilation of the Doors, and I'll burn a disc of the Monkees- and the Monkees will have it ALL OVER the Doors.

I don't see anything exceptional about Morrison's vocal chops at all. I suppose he was a little more passionate than Davy Jones, but he wasn't in a league with Bob Dylan or Smokey or even Jimi Hendrix as a vocalist.

I suppose Morrison had some stage presence, although that's somewhat lost on me because he didn't have that great a MUSICAL presence to back it up.

If prowling the stage playing Lizard King and pulling out his pecker excites you, knock yourself out. Personally, I prefer music.

I love the Monkees, truly, but comparing them to the Doors is like comparing Three Dog Night (whom I also love) to Creedence.

There's really no better way to expose one's lack of knowledge (or love for that matter) of rock music than to trumpet "The Doors are overrated." Ironically, while their sound is a perfect example of 1960s-styled rock, many of the songs are timeless, if not fresh, to this day. Yup, some of the stuff is pretentious, LSD dreck. And Jim dying at such a young age did more for his legend than living ever would have. But he was a unique, American talent who wore the tortured artist mask to the extreme. A product of the 1960s? Yes. An alcoholic? Yes. He was a deeply troubled man in search of redemption. He did not find it. So we are left with a sporadic, entertaining, legendary, sometimes profound, body of work.......Morrison the man is overrated....I don't see how The Doors music could ever be.....my guess is he would agree.....

...like comparing Three Dog Night (whom I also love) to Creedence

or like comparing Menudo to The Who.

Excellent succinct assessment Chris, Thanks!

Mark, Menudo did die before they got old.

and rightly so!

What was Jim the man really like though? All I have heard about him is about his alcoholism, playing the "tortured artist" and how crazy he was. Jimbo had to be something more than that. Can anyone really explain what you think Jim really was to me?

A few comments: Krieger wrote the lyrics to 'Light My Fire', not the music, although he did contribute to that. Manzarek wrote most of the music to that song, and definately the hook.

Morrison was a better vocalist than Dylan, Jones, or Hendrix, depending on which style he was singing. Comparing Smokey Robinson to any rock singer is ridiculous. Imagine Smokey singing 'Been Down So Long'! Jim's vocals were much better in his later recordings, in my opinion, when the music (and his vocals) turned more bluesey. Had he lived I think you would have seen the Doors move to a more blues oriented rock, and would have achieved even greater success with Jims lyrics and vocals.

I think Morrison was multi-talented, but suffered from some type of ADD, which didn't allow him to focus his full attention on being 'great' at any one thing (music, poetry, blues, cinema, etc.)

El Supremo

Impossible to agree with Andrew Ian Dodge's statement. Both The Doors and Nirvana made good music because the music complemented the vocals/lyrics to the fullest. These guys weren't solo artists, so it isn't really fair to judge them as such.

agreed Shaun, thanks

I agree that a best-of from the Monkees has it waaaaay over that of the Doors.
My only quibble: Al, almost all the finest Monkees tunes were sung by Mickey, including "Steppin' Stone," "Clarksville," "Mary, Mary," "I'm a Believer," "She", "Porpoise Song,""Pleasant Valley Sunday ," and a bunch more I can't think of.

Mickey Dolenz was the Lizard King. And the Walrus. And a golden god.

And he was Circus Boy.

I really love the Monkees - first album I ever bought was More of the Monkees - but this is just perverse, an abomination, worthy of space in Pink Flamingoes.

Davey sang "Daydream Believer," my favorite Monkees song - "What do you have against short guys?"

Eric:

I said "almost all."
"Daydream Believer" is sublime, of course.

Well okay then, but the Monkees still aren't the Doors.

monkees fans must be subversive bores who cant see the joys of experimentation

Or maybe they're just experimental bores
who can't see the joys of subversion???

I count myself a boring experimentalist dedicated to the subversion of joy.

First off, the monkies were a hollywood spin off of what was really happening in the 1960's ( Actors ).....those morons can be compared to britney spears or janet jackson for all i care. Secondly, the doors were an original sound in their time, playing their own instruments and the music they wrote. Jim morrison regrettably may never be accepted as among the great poets in history but, thats only because of the path he chose to vent his writings....otherwise he would be taken as seriously as any other living or past poet. The drugs? the alcoholism?...vices unrelated to his talent! They probably neither enhanced or inhibited him.

You may dismiss Janet Jackson and Britney Spears, but if they had Carole King and Neil Diamond and other creme of the Brill Building writing their songs like the Monkees did, they would be the shiznit.

Though in fairness, Nesmith must be given credit for writing "What Am I Doing Hanging Round" and perhaps my favorite Monkees song, "Listen to the Band."

Nesmith also get's credit for the movie Tapeheads, a great and screwy sendup of rock, video, artistes and whatever.

Also, not on any Monkees set, his solo song "Cruisin'" circa 1978. MUST HAVE. That's why Rand made Kazaa.

He also had a contemporary video, which I saw on Don Kirchner's Rock Concerts show, even though it was no kind of live performance. Maybe it will pop up on P2P as well.

I still think we should let the monkees free so they can smell each other's butts in the jungle. Remember if you see a video tape of it, its not really thier butts...or noses. Maybe thats what they did with janet jackson's nose :O oooops and britney spear's :O

Nesmith's Elephant Parts DVD/video is funny and strange, and he was not without talent as a songwriter and singer. The problem was the sort of rootsy country-rock he was best at didn't really fit the Monkees agenda.

The Monkees were a prefab pop band - they did it really well and I love several of their songs, but you simply can't compare them to the Doors who wre self-contained artists, whether you like their artistry or not.

Morrison was a silly "poet," but he was a great lyricist, singer and performer.

Jim's voice is pure testosterone. Very few rock singers are baritones. Most are tenors or altos or falsettos (Jimmy Page & Axl Rose). Jim was the first rock singer to carefully enunciate the lyrics; as a poet he believed the words were important, and his phrasing & styling were remniscent of Frank Sinatra. It's really unfair to compare his voice to Hendrix's, Hendrix was an amazing guitarist, but his voice was a little on the wispy side & Jimmy was shy about his singing voice. Jim was also one of the few white rockers who could sing the blues like the original black artists. He will always be missed.

Jim a Poet???hahahohoheeheeheehahahhoho!
"I am the Lizard King,I can do anything?
My dog shits out better poetry than that
every morning.Try reading Pound,Rimbaud,
Homer,Dante Alligheri,Verlaine or for
that matter even Raymond Chandler. Poet,
yeah....right.Sure babe,whatever,better
lay off the hippie love weed, me thinks.

RE: "Jim was also one of the few white
rockers who could sing the "BLOOOZ" like
the original black artists". Obviously,
you are a qualified & highly authorative
Bluesophile and your insight is ever so
astute.It is also WRONG.Have you ever,I
mean ever listened to Big Joe Turner or
Howling Wolf, Ray Charles or J.L.Hooker?
I doubt it.Anyway,those are voices babe.
Jim is somewhere between Al Martino and
Julius La fuckin'Rosa in that hallowed
pantheon of BLOOOOZ singers.

"Mr.Mojo Risin'"indeed."Mr.Moron Jism"
is a bit more on the mark.

Hey, since you asked--I have read poetry; Rimbaud in the original French as even a good translation doesn't always capture the original's spirit, Blake, Tennyson, Longfellow, Burns,and Beaudelaire (also in French & English)& Walt Whitman, Dante, & others. I've also read an excellent biography of Rimbaud by Graham Robb--which I highly recommend. I'm looking for a good biography of Baudelaire, can you recommend one?

As for blues artists- I have the Chess collection of John Lee Hooker (excellent) and CDs of Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson, Buddy Guy, Howling Wolf & Charlie Patton, & Muddy Waters. I've loved the blues for a long,long time. Recently I read the "History of the Blues" by Francis Davis. I highly recommend this book also.

Have you read the Lords & the New Creatures? or an American Prayer? They're actually quite good. Even Baudelaire & Rimbaud were not much appreciated until long after their deaths.
I stand by the comments I made about Jim, his voice is aural chocolate,sensous & sexy-listen to his version of Van Morrison's "Gloria"- so lush, so evocative of teen sex!! Also, his version of Willie Dixon's "Little Red Rooster" & "Back Door Man". As good as the originals.

"I am the burger king,I can eat anything

To even mention The Monkees and The Doors in the same sentence is retarded. Get a life bozos. Morrison owns you all.

My....my,critics and more critics. Jim was who he was...drunk or not. With drugs or not. He knew how important was to be himself. Not talking, just doing...with the guts to be in a stage. Appreciation of music and lirics is a personal matter, (that is part of the life of a real artist. Same case for Vincent Van Gogh,Edgar Allan Poe and others. But people and generations testimony is what count. And I know that he wasn't sorry of nothing. The message is: have the guts to be yourself, with moral or not, religious ethics or not, drunk or not...be yourself. Don't be afraid to be yourself.

You chumps still believe that hoax that
I pulled on ya about the death thing and
all that??? Oy Vey! You're bigger fools
than I already thought you were.

I knew that you were all morons when you
bought "Soft Parade" but to believe that
I would expatriate to the land of the
loathsome frog, much less die there...

I just got tired of making music is all
(Although I AM rather proud of my Jose
Feliciano impression).I knew that people
would not always want to hear my amateur
Junior High School level "poetry".But on
the same hand people are always going to
have to eat. Am I right or am I right?

So,I went back to using my own real name
(James Morrisberg)and I opened a deli in
Far Rockaway,Queens: "The Soul Kitchen".
Stop in and say hello sometime OK?

I make a hot pastrami to die for and my
mother is even jealous of my kugel.I kid
you not. Shalom.

the monkeys didnt even write their own music let alone play their instruments and you say they are more talented than morrison and the doors..for christ sake..if that isnt good enough for you to go on..then go on album sales success..the doors shit on the monkeys and bob dylan worldwide..gees..has rock not taught anyone anything..lol..and dam..jimi hendrix was a very poor vocalist...shit im out of here..lol

Even though I'm just 30 now, I've always fixated on the Morrison dead at 27 thing, possibly because I picked up (and obsessed on) The Doors in high school, during which time I latched onto Nirvana, only to have Kurt Cobain self-buy it at... 27, joining the club with Janis, Jimi, Jim...

Anyway, figure if you make it past 27, you're more in the turtle slow-and-steady club.

Different topic: Ray Manzarek wrote a rather nice and interesting novel kind of imagining a fictionalized Jim who faked his death and found peace and enlightenment by heading East and ending up on a remote island in the Indian Ocean. It's called The Poet in Exile, if anyone is interested.

Concerned Dude- The Monkees didn't write most of their own songs, and only played some of the instruments. Nonetheless, they made better music than the Doors. You can divvy up the credit amongst the songwriters and producers if you want, but SOMEBODY made some heller records.

And Dude, don't be picking the Doors over Dylan- you'll really end up looking silly.

Al - I like the Monkees a lot, they put out some really nice records.

But Monkees over Doors? If you don't dig on The Doors, that's cool -- many people don't -- but that's kind of a weird comparison to try and make, isn't it?

They're both white pop groups from the 60s. The Monkees are a fun group to put up against something like the Doors that just screams with pomposity. The manufactured boy band made better records than the Profound Philosopher Morrison.

Which is not to totally disregard the Doors. They were a decent singles band, and you could about put together one really good CD out of their career. Nothing wrong with that, just don't be ascribing them major league status like the Stones or Dylan or Prince.

Does seem like a useless comparison,now
that is mentioned. But I do understand
where Al is coming from and to that end,
he could've used any old band for that
purpose and it would've been about the
same difference.

Although in thinking about it,both of
these bands(Doors & The Monkees)were as
equally influential on Punk Rock as the
other.Monkees jams like "Stepping Stone"
(Paul Revere & The Raiders did it first)
"I'm A Believer" and "Mary,Mary" turned
up in many Punk Bands set lists and on
record as well. The Doors influence is
obvious enough w/o any explanation,so I
won't.

The comparison works to place the Doors in the foodchain. That is, they were a midlevel pop act with several good hits. They compare to the Monkees or the Association, rather than the Beatles or the Kinks.

as expressed n earlier lifetimes, I disagree. The Doors were "pop" only to the extent they had some hits on "pop" radio, but of those I would only describe "Touch Me" as pop, and it is pop of the strangest and most skewed kind, so over the top in production as to transcend mere "pop" into the rococo of "MacArthur Park."

As others have said, there are no rules that say anyone has to like th eDoors but to reduce their status and importance to the inconsequential is just willful perversity

Like so many other bands, a lot of the Doors best material is not heard on the radio, ever! That which is played is frankly, overplayed, I honestly never have to hear, "Touch ME", "Light My Fire" or "Roadhouse Blues" again, though "Riders on the Storm" always draws me in.
I can take or leave the Doors, as long as I can have "The Wasp (Texas Radio)".

You bring up a great point, SFC Ski, which I think speaks especially to The Doors, a band which produced a great variety of strange and wonderful music.

Many years ago, I wrote several thousand words tracking my life along with the lyrics to The Wasp. There's outstanding poetry in there. In fact, I currently have a column on my blog called Notes from the Perimeter which is based upon the line, "Out here on the Perimeter... we is stoned, immaculate."

Commercial radio has really helped to resign many bands to the dust bin of history. For example, I think I never caught the Rolling Stones bug because I heard "Satisfaction" and "Jumping Jack Flash" about 700 times, thus compelling me to shut my ears at the very mention of the band.

whoa, now THAT's willfully perverse (smile)

Don't blame me, blame the system, man!

(BTW - I had the thought re the Stones the other day as Paint It Black kicked up in my iPod and I thought, "Why the hell didn't I ever seriously get into these guys -- this is a great f'n song...")

they have many, really

Ah, the good ol' days, when I was "David."

Anyways, I remember read ing that "Hello I Love You" was considered a scandalously mersh bit of teenybopper fluff at the time. Strange days indeed.

The Doors were one of the most influential bands of all time. They werent hippies, while everyone else at that time was into love and life, the Doors explored death and sex. The combination of three enormously talented musicians with the bluesy voice and poetic lyrics of Jim Morrison resulted in one of the greatest and most unique bands of all time. I strongly suggest that people stay away from the 'greatest hits' and 'best of' albums and buy the studio recordings to see what the band was really about.
lizardking
http://devoted.to/doorslife

I never thought I'd agree with the Senator, but The Doors were possibly the worst band in human history and certainly influenced more terrible bands than anyone in rock history. The Monkees weren't pretentious pseudo-poets and were enjoyable pop tripe.

Young Jonathan, I have a song for you to look into/download. It's by an ancient group called Pearl Jam whom you might have heard of:

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Pearl-Jam/Against-The-Seventies.html

Pearl Jam - Against The Seventies Lyrics
(Mike Watt - "Ballhog or Tugboat")

I asked him if he knew what time he had
He said he wasn't sure maybe a quarter past
The kids of today should defend themselves against the seventies
Appeared in his eyes as we stood in line just to have a look
But the pages I found looked like an unbound coloring book
The kids of today should defend themselves against the seventies
(2x)
It's not reality, just someone else's sentimentality...
It won't work for you...

Baby boomers selling you rumors of their history
Forcing youth away from the truth of what's real today
The kids of today should defend themselves against the seventies
Stadium minds with stadium lies gotta make you laugh
Garbage bandits 'gainst true defenders of the crowds

The kids of today should defend themselves against the seventies
(2x)
It's not reality, just someone else's sentimentality...
Look what it did to us...

Speakin' as a child of the seventies...

The kids against the seventies
Kids against the seventies
The kids of today should defend themselves against the seventies
(12x)

That is all.

hence your cataclysmic misunderstanding of the Doors, BAB: they were quintessential '60s all the way. Absolutely Live and Morrison Hotel were '70, and LA Woman was '71, but that was still '60s-postlude time anyway.

You and the senator are just plain wrongo re Jimmy and the Portals

The Drug addicts of the sixties can say whatever about their pathetic Whimp bands of the sixties. The only true American Rock n Roll clear stand out in your face leader is "Three Dog Night" no one and I mean no group can even come close to touching the number of Rock and Roll Hits pumped out by THREE DOG NIGHT. I rest my case and in your face dead heads! Once again No other group put out more hits songs between 1969 and 1974 NO ONE! So with out a Doubt Three Dog Night is the Greatest Rock Group of All time. Take a hard look at Billboards charts.
They don't lie. Those stats don't lie. More number 1's, more top tens, and other songs than any other group in that period. They are compared to other bands like the Beatles.
And basically you could take the combined songs put out by the Who, Doors, and Led Zeppelin and they still would have as many hits as THREE DOG NIGHT. That's a fact jack!

Yeah I heard some idiot talking about Led Zepplin's 7 Great Albums is that the best they could do is just 7 albums?
Hey try 19 going on 20 albums for Three Dog Night; then you'll know the difference between a flash in the pan group and a real rock band is ok! As a matter of fact, You could take combined songs from groups like the Doors, The Who, and Led Zeppelin and they still would Not come close to the number of Rock and Roll Hits "Three Dog Night" has put out. So where do you derelicts get off thinking any of those bands can even be considered a great rock band. Let me answer your question they can't! Furthermore,
along with The Beatles and Three Dog Night other Greatest All time Rock bands include: CCR, Chicago, Eric Clapton, Genesis, U2, Huey Lewis and the News, Beach Boys could all be considered much higher bands than the Trash groups that were mentioned. If your someone that likes experimenting with drugs I guess you'll think the doors are great. Yuck I want to vomit when I hear that. Last point the record books don't lie and the number of albums sold don't lie. So get a life old and new druggies alike.

You can't even mention the Who, The Doors, or Led Zeppelin in the same sentence with a Real "Classic Rock Band" that defined an entire generation like "Three DOG Night" or the Beatles, or CCR you just can not.

Those bands are even worthy to be grouped even remotely with them. the Who, The Doors, and Led Zeppelin were simply fly by night musical acts in comparison to Great Bands. They (these insignificant bands) were a typical flash in the pan type groups that got hot with a few hit songs before each of them quickly faded back into oblivion and were soon forgotten about-accept with the drug culture. That is How America will always remember those idiots. James Morrisson like most druggies OD and that was end of him.
The Who, The Doors, and Led Zeppelin did not dominate the charts EVER!
They did not dominate the charts the way Real Rock Bands did. Even 80's Rock Bands had many more hit songs per band than they did such as: Van Halen, Asia, Journey, Huey Lewis and the News, Genesis, and U2.
You can't get any bigger than U2! But my point is all of these groups had one thing in common that each had many more albums, sold many more albums, and many more hits than any of the late 60's drug culture bands that died off because they OD on Narcotics!
Care to dispute that I don't think so you'll lose badly.

Three Dog Night?

One note to Eric Olsen. You obviously don't know Rock N Roll my friend. I had a friend in college that went through every band that was in existence. First of all. Your Top Ten Rock Groups that you selected don't equate with Reality except your own!
The only 2 groups that you mention as Great are factually correct. Numero Uno without a doubt " The Beatles" by sheer number of Hits and Albums they had. No Band can touch them. Can't be compared to anyone else. And secondly U2 the Irish Rock Group. So I agree with you on both counts.
But every other group you mentioned was either a click rock band or they did'nt pass muster with most folks because they were just plain weird!
The Rolling Stone Honestly most people would say they lasted very long but in terms of age old music they were'nt that good. I can't no satisfaction was ok. And big deal they have a magazine names after them. I am sure the Beatles could have gone into publishing business too if they so chose!
Every other group you mentioned here is garbage and while each had their moment (and that is exactly what it was a very small moment in time) can be thrown in the old circular file by most people. I don't know why MSN chose a moron to choose who was the best, but if I had your resume it would go there too. and you'd be fired if you worked for me! Because you don't know what your talking about! Period. Your biased thoughts on music you can keep them.

Eric if you have to throw a question up like that over Great Rock Groups; then you are obviously in the dark or have led a sheltered existence.
In either case, I suggest a reality show might be good but you'll want to do your homework go to the Library and look up who the biggest all time bands are. And I assure you they are'nt the ones Mr Olsen has mentioned with the exception of 2 if you go to his Top ten.

"Most are tenors or altos or falsettos (Jimmy Page & Axl Rose)."

Sweetie, go back and watch the Doodlebops. Jimmy Page wasn't a singer.

The Doors as a group were only second rate. After a good first album, each subsequent one was worst than the last.
I know, I've heard them all ad nauseam in the 60s/70s (because I lived through them, reluctantly so, kiddies).

Morrison was the classic "drunken poet." (yawn) I'd rather read a sober poet.

I feel pressed between two extremely eccentric bookends

and yes, "eccentric" is, in truth, a euphemism

"special"

I wish I could remember that monologue about Huey Lewis and the News from Americn Psycho right now.

That is all.

I always liked Three Dog Night, lots of good (cover) songs and three good singers, but they had artistic and the cultural import of the Partridge Family

I've always thought the worst social euphemism is "interesting." If anyone tells you you or your friends are "interesting," it means they think you're a total weirdo and hate your guts.

I try my best not to use "interesting," but even I catch myself doing it on occasion. It's so evasive yet implies so much, especially when preceded by an akward moment of hesitation or an "um."

That is all.

that is true, but I genuinely try to use "interesting" when I am actually interested in something or someone - but I often swim against the lexicographical stream

One variant of dismissive social euphemisms I've caught onto now is "random," as in the following sentence. "Oh, we just hung out with some random people last night at this party."

It's another example of an evasive social put-down. What exactly makes a person random? It implies irrelevance, boredom and unimportance in a far more cruel way than any other more direct word ever could.

I think it's even more insulting than "interesting" because there's no possible positive connotation for its use, unless you're a statistician.

I find myself struggling not to use this word as well.

That is all.

I'm definitely guilty of saying interesting in conversation when I don't have much to say and am in fact not really all that interested in what the speaker is saying. It fills conversational gaps nicely at other times.

"Okay" is one of those words too. If you ask someone what they think of your friends or how beautiful your new girlfriend is and they say, "They're / she's okay," that's downright brutal.

Perhaps a word like "random" is a way to quantify an increasingly scattered, complex, and disconnected existence.

Or something.

I'm buying you boys shots if they rebuild New Orleans for Mardi Gras.

We'll be so High Fidelity if you can overlook my rowdy friends and the boobs in every direction.

That is all.

Mr. Eric Olsen perhaps you should do more reading on what is fact and what is fiction in the musical world.
The Record books are their for a reason, but they are there to show you who sold what and who the leading artists were at the time. Check Billboards.
TDN songs by the way Dominated the Airways on both AM and FM dials across the USA.
Its ashame the drug culture keeps the lowly rock bands alive.and that is really all it is. Unfortunately while James Morrison went to his maker at an early age in 1971 while I was just a kid he arguably did'nt even believe in God or much else. I am not condemning him, because of it. But all I am trying to say is if that is what makes a real man to you is someone that believes in nothing except being an atheist. well great. its not to me.
At least Three Dog Night members and its Three Lead Singers are still around today almost 40 years later?
What happened to the Doors? they fell apart? And by the way, All of those lead singers that Three Dog Night possessed could easily out sing James Morrison to the point he would look silly on stage opposite them! Danny Hutton the founder of Three Dog Night, Cory Wells, and Chuck Negron. Now mind you I am sure members of Three Dog Night did a little bit of weed as that was the going on then. But at least they knew when to say when. You would be very wise to re-read the history books of music and not believe in word of mouth stories that were obviously told to you in school regarding who was Great and who was'nt, and then pass it off as fact! When it isn't. Take it from someone who lived in the 1960's and remembers the era.
I am calling you a fraud if your gonna stand there and tell people your a musical buff when your not, and you certainly don't belong telling people who the top ten groups are either. Who ever hired you should also be fired along with you! If you have an interest in musical tastes great just make sure you get your facts straight first before opening your mouth! And you'll be A ok

Dominated the Airwaves is one of my all time faves from Billboards, especially when I'm hanging out here and their.

Jack, it sounds like you're taking your personal hatred of drugs out on some great bands. Too bad, your loss.

Top 50 Billboard Singles / Top 10 Ablums

The Beatles 67 / 34
Paul McCartney 53 / 18
The Who 30 / 9
Bob Dylan 27 / 16
Three Dog Night 23 / 5
Led Zeppelin 12 / 12 (10 of 11 albums)
CCR 19 / 5
The Doors 2 / 7 (Each album they released during Jim Morrison's life time went to the top 10. Talk about consistent.)
Cream 3 / 4
Jimi Hendrix 1 / 11 (all four of the albums released in his lifetime were in the top 4)

I think you'll find that in comparing actual amount of singles/albums released by each artist, and how many of them were hits, that your beloved Three Dog Night are not the pillars of rock that you think they are. (I'm talking consistent quality here) You can't compare the Doors, who released 7 albums in Jim Morrison's lifetime, to Three Dog Night, who released 15 albums. That's about as futile as comparing The Who's entire discography to Jimi Hendrix's extremely limited one. Also, notably, much of the music represented here is so varied that there is simply no point in comparing their chart standings. By doing so it only suits to advertise your incredible ignorance.

However you slice it, them's some strong numbers by The Beatles and Paul.

I'm assuming you left the Stones off that list, Evan?

He is not dead, just hiding. Last week I saw him at a Burger King mopping the floor.

Jack said:
"Once again No other group put out more hits songs between 1969 and 1974 NO ONE!"

One point should be made. Three Dog Night (28%)released 18 singles that charted in that span of 5 years. Of these, 5 went to number one. The Rolling Stones released 10, and 3 went to number one. This means, percentage wise, the Stones beat out Three Dog Night. Had they released 8 more singles in that time, I have no doubt that they would flat out have more number ones.

Well, this has been fun. Pointless, but fun.
One last thing.
"I had a friend in college that went through every band that was in existence."

I don't believe you.

Yeah Eric, I left the Stones off the list because Jak had said he didn't like them, and I didn't think the numbers would sway him, however impressive they are (which is VERY.

Here they are though:
The Rolling Stones 74/36

*Is there any way to edit posts?*

EB - dig it: "'random' is a way to quantify an increasingly scattered, complex, and disconnected existence"

BAB - I'll be there, really, and "rowdy friends" - hah

Fascinating info Evan, thanks!

Jak, generally I hire myself, which makes me hard to fire

Jak;

Gotta disagree with ya re Eric Olsen's music qualifications. Actually, E.O.'s quite knowledgeable in a variety of subjects, but especially the musical genre. And although I wouldn't take advice from him about combat, since he's never served, the man definitely knows his music.

My only problem with Morrison is that he lost focus too often... even on the records. When Morrison was on his game, he was among the best of his generation. Like too many of his contemporaries, you could hear them cracking up on record a little too often.

I don't know - maybe I am not making sense.

One MORE thing.

Jak said:
"But all I am trying to say is if that is what makes a real man to you is someone that believes in nothing except being an atheist. well great. its not to me."

What the hell does being a "real man" have to do with having artistic talent? And what gives you the right to define what a "real man" is?

Hey Evan I am laughing so hard right now, because of your stupidity.
The Rolling Stones my friend had a few good songs and that was about it. After that they just toured after that
to say they lasted longer. Big Deal!
It does'nt qualify them as a great Band.Sorry to burst your bubble!
They don't.

The Beatles Dominated the charts.
No question there.
The Who they sucked what more can I say?

The Who 30 / 9? Hmmm I don't believe your stats there and there is a way Stats don't tell the truth. People always use the stats to lie. In this case Big Time! haha sorry I got your hand caught in the cookie jar my friend. Slap! HAHA
Your gonna take a beating here!
Because alot of the crap songs they made were at the very bottom of the Chart(Barrel)? If they indeed put 30 song on the top 50 once again
they barely made it and they were no where near number 1 songs either! Fact.

Bob Dylan 27 / 16
Same situation although good guitarist he could not sing to save his life!
People universally agree on that.
My best friend is a Bob Dylan Aficionado and the reason he loves him
is because of his guitar work.
Once again Most of his Top 50 singles were not even close to the Top 20(same case as above) much less Top 10 and oh course I don't think he ever saw a number 1 in his life! Once again you were smoked again my friend!

Three Dog Night 23 / 5
They are the bench mark in America as an American Band formed in Southern California. The stats speak for themselves; in the US alone, Three Dog Night had twenty one
consecutive Top 40 hits (Something the Rolling Stone in the wildest dreams could never equal), eighteen straight Top 20s, eleven Top Tens. that would be the envy of almost any band, any time. And I am not even finished yet!
Seven number ones, seven million-selling singles and twelve straight gold LPs. By late '75, they had sold nearly 50 million records. That's wiped the smile off your face hasn't it Evan!
This one is on the House by the way Three Dog Night Biggest Hit:"Joy To The World"#1, on charts for 17 weeks!

Name one of your Groups that could even come close. I thought not!

The laughable part of it all is
if the song was probably reintroduced today it would be on the charts even longer!!! Scary isn't it!
The Groups you have mentioned had very little if no Number Ones' and by the way. The Number Ones the Rolling Stones had at Number One did not last very long in comparison.
That was good you stayed away from number one's because the pathetic groups you mention really don't have any! haha. The groups you mention was had a hard time putting a thought together much less singing which they could'nt do. The had a few songs that speckled the bottom of the charts.

And by the way Three Dog Night had Great Albums ok 19 to be exact!. How many did the Doors and Zeppelin have together??? I did'nt think so!


Led Zeppelin 12 / 12 (10 of 11 albums)
Pathetic
CCR 19 / 5
Ok CCR was and is a Great Rock Group
There we can agree upon! Touche!

The Doors 2 / 7 (Each album they released during Jim Morrison's life time went to the top 10. Talk about consistent.)
I personally am embarrassed for you. For even listing such pathetic stats.
2 Top 50's Hits? Come on. How old are you anyway? Yeah if the albums sold it was do to the loser lifestyle of the druggies. Once again Total number of Albums sold does not equate when combined with other Groups to match Three Dog Night total number of Albums sold period paragraph.
Cream 3 / 4- They were good they had
Eric Clapton. Excellent choice.
Jimi Hendrix 1 / 11 (all four of the albums released in his lifetime were in the top 4)
Once again Hendrix is considered a legend but his stats are'nt there.

Well I am not Comparing Three Dog Night one on one with The Who, The Doors, or Led Zeppelin independently.
I don't think that is fair for these lessor bands up against " Three Dog Night" and yeah they are the Pillars of Rock and Roll my Friend your in Denial!!! Laughing so hard right now!
. You'd have to combine put their resources together to get even close to the amount of Endless True Classic Rock and Roll Universal Worldwide Favorites that Three Dog Night Pumped out.
That's fact. I've already done my research in Billboards and other muscial sources of information. Where are you getting your information
from your friends? I would'nt advise that.

Well this much can be said for a one on one comparo. As to who was the Best of the Best ok. Three Dog Night had a Universal Appeal whereas the other bands had very limited appeal.
A Band such as the Doors appealed mostly to the Drug Culture,and their music appeal to those that sought after rebelling against authority,
anarchy, chaos, and basically doing their own thing no matter whose life they ruined. On the other Hand, I think Three Dog Night enjoyed a Universal appeal the other groups could'nt match. They appealed to all age groups much to your chagrin.
The formula is simple. They spoke about the things in life that were most important in their songs like Love
and the changes in Life. You can't get more down to earth than that.
If that is too goodie two shoes for you well then too bad. Eat Crow!
A millenium will pass and the only thing people will really care to know about are groups that brought people together not apart! That is why the Beatles were so popular even though I was not a devotee of theirs.
And by the way, your right I am not suppose to judge anyone. But we all do it everyday. You have your set of bench marks and so do I.

"Where are you getting your information
from your friends? I would'nt advise that."

Actually I'm getting it from Billboard, via a little known website known as www.allmusic.com.

Okay, let's get started here.

First of all, judging the artistic merit of music based on charts is simply ludicrous. Throughout history, many of the more culturally and historically important, not to mention better bands/artists, have not been popular with the mainstream public. (Big Star, the Velvet Underground, Nick Drake, Linda Perhacs, etc. This even dates back to the 20s and 30s, when many fantastic blues/folk/country performers were never known until a man named Alan Lomax came along.) But, if you're not going to agree that "good music" is subjective, then there's no point in debating at all. How do I know you're not going to agree that subjectivity exists? "The Who they sucked what more can I say?", "Led Zeppelin 12 / 12 (10 of 11 albums)
Pathetic" This belief that your opinion is in fact the correct and only opinion clearly illustrates your stunning ignorance and snobbery. But we'll move on shall we?

"The Who 30 / 9? Hmmm I don't believe your stats there... sorry I got your hand caught in the cookie jar my friend. Slap! HAHA"

Alright, a quick (not really) rundown of the Billboard stats.
Singles
Year Single Chart Peak
1967 Happy Jack Pop Singles 24
1967 I Can See For Miles Pop Singles 9
1968 Call Me Lightning Pop Singles 40
1968 Magic Bus Pop Singles 25
1969 I'm Free Pop Singles 37
1969 Pinball Wizard Pop Singles 19
1970 Summertime Blues Pop Singles 27
1970 The Seeker Pop Singles 44
1971 Behind Blue Eyes Pop Singles 34
1971 Won't Get Fooled Again Pop Singles 15
1972 Join Together Pop Singles 17
1973 The Relay Pop Singles 39
1976 Squeeze Box Pop Singles 16
1978 Who Are You Pop Singles 14
1979 5:15 Pop Singles 45
1981 Another Tricky Day Mainstream Rock 6
1981 Daily Records Mainstream Rock 36
1981 Did You Steal My Money Mainstream Rock 38
1981 How Can You Do It Alone Mainstream Rock 50
1981 Won't Get Fooled Again Mainstream Rock 39
1981 You Better You Bet** Mainstream Rock 1
1982 Athena** Mainstream Rock 3
1982 Cry If You Want Mainstream Rock 34
1982 Dangerous Mainstream Rock 38
1982 Eminence Front Mainstream Rock 5
1982 It's Hard Mainstream Rock 39
1991 Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting** Mainstream Rock Tracks 8

** appeared in the top 50 on multiple charts.

Albums
Year Album Chart Peak
1970 Live At Leeds Pop Albums 4
1970 Tommy Buy Now! Pop Albums 4
1971 Who's Next Pop Albums 4
1973 Quadrophenia Pop Albums 2
1975 The Who By Numbers Pop Albums 8
1978 Who Are You Pop Albums 2
1979 The Kids Are Alright Pop Albums 8
1981 Face Dances Pop Albums 4
1982 It's Hard Buy Now! Pop Albums 8

"Because alot of the crap songs they made were at the very bottom of the Chart(Barrel)? If they indeed put 30 song on the top 50 once again they barely made it and they were no where near number 1 songs either!"

So, umm, yeah. You're right about the number 1's. They only had one, in 1981. However, they had 6 in the top ten throughout. And I think the fact that early in their career they were largely a mod rock band accounts for lower peaks, as mod wasn't as hugely popular as pop-rock (hence the "pop").
So, them's the facts. Moving on.

"Bob Dylan 27 / 16
Same situation although good guitarist he could not sing to save his life!
People universally agree on that."

Nope, again, that's subjective. Since I happen to enjoy his singing (it's quite distinctive, and fairly emotional) I can assure that people don't universally agree on it.

"Once again Most of his Top 50 singles were not even close to the Top 20(same case as above) much less Top 10 and oh course I don't think he ever saw a number 1 in his life!"

Actually, he had nine singles in the top 10. Would you like me to list them? Sigh, I'll just do it now, save you some time.

Year Single Chart Peak
1965 Like A Rolling Stone Pop Singles 2
1965 Positively 4th Street Pop Singles 7
1965 Subterranean Homesick Blues Adult Contemporary 6
1966 Rainy Day Women #12 & 35 Pop Singles 2
1969 Lay Lady Lay Pop Singles 7
1973 Knockin' on Heaven's Door Adult Contemporary 5
1988 Silvio Mainstream Rock Tracks 5
1989 Everything Is Broken Mainstream Rock Tracks 8
1989 Slow Train Mainstream Rock Tracks 8

He also had two more in the top 20.

"Three Dog Night 23 / 5
They are the bench mark in America...
Seven number ones, seven million-selling singles and twelve straight gold LPs... Three Dog Night Biggest Hit:"Joy To The World"#1, on charts for 17 weeks!"

Statistically, you're correct. I applaud your ability to read charts and agree with them. However, I think a fairly large amount of music historians/professors/lovers/archivists/etc would agree that in the areas of cultural and historical significance, not to mention artistic merit, Three Dog Night would not be at the top. I think awards such as the Grammy's (of which Three Dog Night have none. Dylan has 7 by the way.) speak to that.

"The groups you mention was had a hard time putting a thought together much less singing which they could'nt do."

You seem to have a harder time putting sentences together, but I won't get childish.

"And by the way Three Dog Night had Great Albums ok 19 to be exact!. How many did the Doors and Zeppelin have together??? I did'nt think so!"

Together, they had 16, but why do you ask? You're telling me that their inability, or respectful decision, to not continue as a band due to the death of a member and personal friend makes them crappy?

"CCR 19 / 5
Ok CCR was and is a Great Rock Group
There we can agree upon! Touche!"

I personally can't stand CCR. I'm not saying they suck, because, as before, it's subjective. I just don't like them very much. I only included them because you had mentioned you liked them before, and I wanted to show that many of the other bands top CCR stats wise, which would illustrate that you hold a clearly contradictory opinion that TDN and CCR are two of the great rock bands of the 20th century.

"2 Top 50's Hits? Come on. How old are you anyway?"

I'm 18, but again, I fail to see the relevance.

"Yeah if the albums sold it was do to the loser lifestyle of the druggies."

That would be your opinion, which is a clear portrayol of your view of people. Sad.

"That's fact. I've already done my research in Billboards and other muscial sources of information."

Try again.

"A Band such as the Doors appealed mostly to the Drug Culture,and their music appeal to those that sought after rebelling against authority,
anarchy, chaos, and basically doing their own thing no matter whose life they ruined."

I love the Doors. I don't use drugs, rebel against authority, and I'm not pro-anarchy, chaos and destruction. I can, however, recognize a fantastic tune, compelling lyrics, instrumental prowess and cohesion when I hear it though.

"Yeah if the albums sold it was do to the loser lifestyle of the druggies."

That's true! Half that shit back then wouldn't have sold if the consumers were sane and sober.

"Yeah if the albums sold it was do to the loser lifestyle of the druggies."

That must be why they continue to sell today... (sarcasm)

At least come up with a real argument.

I hate to burst your bubble again on Grammy's that were won in the music industry but since you put your foot in your mouth I could'nt resist teaching you a lesson one more time.

Negron put and kept Three Dog Night on the charts for years. His soaring, soulful, four octave range and unique vocal styling became a part of the American landscape. His gut wrenching performance on the band's follow up hit to "One", "Easy To Be Hard" is now a classic, as is his beautiful and smooth vocal on "Old Fashioned Love Song." Chuck's unmistakable voice exclaiming "Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog" on the "Multi-Grammy Nominated" and "1971 Record Of The Year", "Joy To The World" is today a part of Americana, securing a place for Chuck Negron as one of the great singers in rock.

This one is for you Evan. The band contractually had artistic control." Few bands were as popular in concert. They pioneered stadium extravaganzas, prompting Rolling Stone Magazine in its 1972 cover story to exclaim "More Gold Than The Stones!" "Bigger Crowds Than Credence!" "Fatter Purses Than Elvis!"
For their run between 69' to 75' will be unequal in many ways. Historians will remember them well.

Show me your starts.

Most bands contractually have artistic control. Doesn't mean they're artistic.

The Stats are there and in the Stones Face ok.

Try A Little Tenderness - charted #29 - Jan. 1969

One - charted #5 - April 1969

Easy To Be Hard - charted #4 - July 1969

Eli's Coming - charted # 10 - October 1969

Celebrate - charted #15 - February 1970

Mama Told Me Not To Come - charted #1 - May 1970

Out In The Country - charted #15 - August 1970

One Man Band - charted #19 - November 1970

Joy To The World - charted #1 Feb. 1971

Liar - charted #7 June 1971

An Old Fashioned Love Song - charted #4 Oct. 1971

Never Been To Spain - charted #5 Dec. 1971

The Family Of Man - charted #12 March 1971

Black and White - charted #1 July 1972

Pieces Of April - charted #19 October 1972

Shambala - charted #3 May 1973

Let Me Serenade You - charted #17 October 1973

The Show Must Go On - charted #4 Feb.1974

Sure As I'm Sittin' Here - charted #16 June 1974

Play Something Sweet - charted #33 Sept. 1974

Till The World Ends - charted #32 June 1975

What gets me is that your 18 years of age. Your obviously bright you can look up charts and read them Evan. But you must know that even before you were born you just missed some of the best Rock in Roll from the 1980's.
You had Genesis, Huey Lewis and the News, Bruce Springsteen, The Carrs, Modern English w/ "I'll start the world and melt with you" which personified the 1980's. So you don't even need to go all the way back to the sixities or 70's to get great music.
But I tell you the more I know about James Morrison the less him!
The Man consistently showed up drunk at his Doors concerts, pissing, and vomiting all over the crowd. I mean that's disgusting and that is what you think is so great. And yeah I do have a right to tell you what a real man is. I served my country in the US Navy. if I went to one of the Doors concerts and he tried that crap in front of me. i would have jumped up on stage and knock James Morrison's ass out.
I was a kid when this Doors phenomenon was going on, but to be quite honest after what I just told you I was'nt missing a thing and neither was anyone else! So get a life.
The man OD and that's that. And right now I am going to Church something I don't think James Morrison and his second wife the Witch ever practiced! His loss! because he chose a self indulgent life and never got to know the supreme being that created him and each of us!

Evan, I have to correct my mistake here. Hey even I make a mistake big deal. But the more I know about James Morrison the less I like him! He was an atheist. And yeah I have been around and I know what is worth living for and what isn't and Godless activities that Mr. Morrison was involved in does make him a man.
In many ways he died a spoil army brat that rebelled against authority and never learned what life was about! ok so I can tell you what a real man is. When you live another 22 years come talk to me as to how smart you just became.

Goofed again damn spell checker
And yeah I have been around and I know what is worth living for and what isn't and Godless activities that Mr. Morrison was involved in does NOT make him a man. He was still very much a boy at age 27 that went out of control.
And while your at it. Why don't you read how his own estranged family discovered him years later. That might change your tune as to what that guy was all about. To me he deserved more than just a good spanking for his permissive activities. If that is ok by you than that is truly sad at 18 you can't look any higher.

The problem that most Doors haters have is..They Hate Morrison.
They hate Morrison because all they know is what they have seen in the OLIVER STONE MOVIE.
That movie really brought the down many, many notches. Ray Manzarek has stated.."I would have never been in a band with the guy that was portrayed in the Doors movie"
Morrison NEVER pissed on a crowd..HE NEVER Vomited on people..You mistake the MYTH with the MAN.

Oh I disliked the Doors way before Oliver Stone's movie.

I remember when I was shooting pool at a pool hall with a juke box and a friend - on a lark - put "the end" on at the jukebox.
MAn I wanted to leave - it was that bad.

When good, they were good but when bad... wow, few could be worse.

As for the Monkees... I remember in college when a dormmate was picked to
be in some kind of new Monkeys series.
Wonder what ever happened to that.
Hmm,
I could see a reality show: Who would
you pick to be in the Monkees today?

To compare The Doors with any other band in rock history is a huge mistake. The Doors are too unique for that. One Fella called them 60's pop (Just like the monkees) That is so musically ignorant...And Culturally ignorant. The Doors are the only band that never had a bad album...Listen to all the early Beatles albums-Much of that music is so embarrassingly bad to modern ears. The Stones has soo many clunkers too. But honestly the Doors never even recorded a lousy track! I suppose something called "My wild Love" could be viewed as filler..and perhaps even bad. But other then that, everything they ever did is unique and terrific. Very unique band...Every player in the group played with so many fascinating idiosyncrasies that they can never be boring. The Doors didn't approach music with the same head that most bands have. Their goal wasn't TO ROCK. So don't compare them to the simple bravado of the Rolling stones. The Doors would have been better off in another decade. The 1960's weren't fair to them...Another 5 years and they would have been able to make an album like "Celebration of the Lizard" They weren't trying for musical perfection...Just trying to be artful. An ugly sounding note and changes in tempo weren't necessarily done on purpose-But the Band would not rehearse before tours so that they Wouldn't sound rehersed...They wanted an organic sound were anything might happen. That's the antithesis of EGO...That's artestic bravery.

I'll have to hand it to Jak, that's one typin' mofro. GoodGawdAlmighty you can crank out the verbiage!

Hands down winner! Period.

Thanks for the insight. Didn't the 60's end in 75? I thought so. All the heavy hitters kept on putting out product then the likes of Aerosmith, Queen came out around 74 or 75 and the scene changed a bit, it was getting stale.

Let's see, as far as the Stones go, I think Let It Bleed and Beggars Banquet, and perhaps Ya Ya's and of course Sticky Fingers were about it for me.

The Doors, the first 2 albums and maybe Waiting for the Sun, but I never liked Kreiger's lead work and as an electric bassist myself, I just didn't dig the sound.

Beatles... my sisters wet their panties over them, so naturally I thought they were pussies.

Kinks, okay.

Animals, over done one or two songs.

Led Zepp. Listening to them now I don't see what I liked about them back then. But I did see them in concert in '72 at it was awesome.

The who had their moments.

Elton John, no thanks.

Boston, nah.

John Hall from Orleans... great songwriter, if you can still get his older stuff, but Orleans didn't do anything for me either.

JJ Cale, cool.

Early Leon Russell, cool.

Miles Davis, cool.

Any Allan Holdsworth is good.

Van Halen, the 1st album really rocked and broke new ground.

Cream, a couple of things stand out, but the early pyschodelic english tripe was awful!

Hendrix, broke ground, seems a bit stale now. I just listened to Ladyland today, Long Hot Summer Night is a cool tune, and so is 1983 a merman I should turn to be.... other than that the release sounds really dated.

Garcia noodled around alot, and some of the Dead stuff in okay.

I got into Jazz and some other stuff around the beginning of the 80's and really got out of rock, but I do listen to good guitarists like Eric Johnson and Danny Gatton.

I guess I'm just a jazz dude now. Alf Ebers (from Steve Smith). Henderson, Gambale, Vai is okay... I mean the list could go on and on. But it won't.

I'm about ready to sell off a lot of CD's because what was once pivitol in my mind, once upon a time just doesn't do a thing for me now.

Oh by the way, Morrison may have drunk himself into oblivion with regularity, but from what I understood it was the opium smoking that conjested his lungs and led to heart failure.

At least that was story years ago.

Here's a few more I just remembered.

I really dug early Allman Brothers.

I wore the grooves of their early stuff.

Marshall Tucker Band, Early Charlie Daniels Band rocked.

ZZ top.... come on... they hit the charts pretty hard.

Mmmm. Let's see.

Plus all the regular stuff. 3DG was okay, Chicago was okay (for a while).

Yes, in studio.
Leo Kottkke, Leon Redbone.

TOWER OF POWER!!!

Motown was cool, so was Stax stuff out of Memphis. Lynard Skynrd had a few good ones. They were actually a tight group.

Dr. John, The Band (but Robertson couldn't play a good lead break to save his life).

Joni Mitchell has a great lookin butt inside the Blue Album cover.

Heart.... before the weight gain.

Oh yeah... the Dixi Dregs.

Little Feat, always a favorite.

Then the 80's came along... Talking Heads for a while. A flurry of new stuff. Missing Persons Spring Session M, was a great band... all of whom came out of the Zappa outfit and could really play their asses off.

Like I said... then jazz hit me, playin in horn bands (I'm a bassist on the side, still am).

I even throw on classical periodically.

I got into Bluegrass for a bit, well Newgrass.

John Hartford, New Grass Revival with Sam Bush.

Is Vassar Clements okay, I heard he was in the hospital recently.

Ry Cooder

The Nashville Bluegrass Band

Tony Rice Unit

David Grissom

The Stray Cats were pretty cool, for a 3 piece.

Medeski, Martin and Wood.

Of course I also went through this 60 jazz guitar period with Wes Montgomery, Herb Ellis, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow.

Bruce Forman, he's been around for about 20 plus years... 60's bebop guitar... quite gifted.

I'm goin' to bed I have to finish up a research project tomorrow. It's been fun.

Duke

#89 MCH, thanks I think; I don't recall ever having offered advice on combat, but I will now: shoot them before they shoot you.

#90 DJR, that makes a lot of sense, actually

Morrison and the Doors were very ambitious on the artistic and commercial level, achieved much, left much undone - for the life of me I can't understand the hatred against them, nor the worship, but the latter makes a little more sense to me.

Frak you don't know what your talking about. The stuff about the Pissing and vomiting of James Morrison while on tour with the Doors sell out concert was'nt a thing of Oliver Stone's creation in his Hollywood Movie (Of Which I have seen as well ok.) It came from eyewitness accounts from not only those that were foolish enough to attend the Doors concerts but also the ones who reported it and local authorities.
I mean James Morrison was a slob.
I mean as much as I don't like to admit this. My so called beloved Three Dog Night. Did drugs and had their orgies, and groupies too. It was the thing to do i guess and has continued to this very day in Rock groups. nothing new. Chuck Negron one of the lead singers in TDN would almost repeated James Morrison mistake almost 20 years later. But could have done it then. But luckily he escaped his misadventures with Drugs after numerous rehabs. i am please at least he has mentioned God even though he does not want to be thought of as a Holy Roller which he'll never be. So if someone wants to say hey Jak did a light bulb come on in my head about the halo over Three Dog Night disappearing after reading that. Well yeah maybe just a little.
Once again I don't hate the Doors they had musical talent ok. I think it is Sad that JM cashed in his chips early.
But see what happens when you marry a Witch and no mention to God that to me is the sadiest. I hope he found God at the end. Who knows?

Congratulations Jak, you showed me TDN's charted singles, but failed to show me what you alleged. Their grammy nominated, album of the year.

Again you bring your definition of a "real man" and God into it. Why you allow your religious delusions to colour your perception of music isn't my business, and you're free to do so, but as I stated before, you're missing out.

As for the 80s, well, yeah, I'm not particularly fond of it. Some things like the Smiths, a few Springsteen records, and the mod revival are all right, but for the most part, no thanks.

What does being a "real man" (whatever that is) have to do with making good music? There are many great female artists out there you know.

And don't make accusations that you can't backup.

"The Man consistently showed up drunk at his Doors concerts, pissing, and vomiting all over the crowd."

Show me a quote from a reliable source that supports this laughable statement.

JakColton You are terrible misinformed.
Were is this "Jim Morrison was an Atheist" coming from? There is no evidence of that-He never said anything anti-Christian. The Married a Witch thing was an invention of a very sick woman who was trying to latch onto Morrison. That was hightailed in the OLIVER STONE movie (She even wrote her own scenes) When asked about the Witch the other Doors members haven't even heard of her. Morrison even calls out in the song "When the Music's over" "Save us..Jesus..Save US!" Want to talk about an ant-God atheist?
John Lennon was the most anti-Religion guy in music with lyrics like..."I don't believe in Jesus..I just believe in me" The Classic song "Imagine' was called he first secular hymn "Imagine there's no heaven..Easy if you try" Lennon was always saying things like. "God is a concept" So there is your real Atheist.

The Duke, Vassar died of cancer

Evan I don't have to prove anything to you. But there are countless sources that will tell you the same thing and I am not talking tabloid source here either! If I am the only source of information that is indeed sad. Use your noggin you seem to be quite resourceful go to google or even the Library and you will listen to other ok.
But if your asking me. ok I know that Jimbo Morrison did these despicable acts in public and that is all you need to know kid. (this includes saying something morally degrading to his own estranged family that showed up at one of his concerts.) But heck I guess its ok to tell your mother your going to F*** her and that you'd kill your father is acceptable in some song; then I guess anything is ok.)
Yeah believe me he won't be runner up for a model citizen much less a God fearing one. I see where Frak is trying to lead me. Frak if you have some sort of hang up over God why don't you tell us all about it? But back to Evan. Listen if you came home in any decent home you'd have your mouth washed out with soap for using that kind of language with your folks. So there goes any argument for J. Morrison as being a decent guy or anything in that facsimile. Even the teachers that taught me back 20 years ago back in High School that may have been caught up in the Doors back in the sixties. Are quick to tell you that the DOORS were a Garbage outfit!
And by the way I was around slightly before the Doors got together ok. I'm a sixties kid ok. So my point is I was around listening to what was played and not. and to my limited knowledge they were not a significant musical source in comparison to other bands in terms of air time played ok.
IN comparion, you were'nt even a thing yet swimming in your fathers balls yet and would'nt be for another 20 years. So tell me who your secondary sources are? I suppose your old man may be as old as me or a little older but probably not old enough to attend a crappy concert like that.
One other point to Eric Olsen if you were paying attention to what I just told to young Evan, The Dislike for " the Doors" stems from the fact they were a bunch of Ass****** in public.
Yeah pissing, vomiting over their crowds the same way Alice Cooper did at his concerts ok. So don't try and take me to school, because you can't. I just took both of you to school on the facts. I lived it. Relearn your history from someone who is at least my age and lived back in the late sixties or very early seventies while Mr. Morrison was still around. I just admitted to anyone listening that my Rock Star hero ok Mr. Negron became addicted to drugs just like J. Morrison. Chuck Negron is no saint either but he is making a back as we speak. He is fortunate he almost went the same path that Morrison went and almost killed himself. Why he did'nt I don't know. Yeah and God must of been watching he got a second chance. Morrison did not.
Morrison will never be confused with Hans Christian Anderson let me tell you. So Frak if you think that because he uttered a few syllables about Jesus in a song great, but the reality is he lead a life that was contradictory to what Jesus taught and Morrison existance certainly was'nt a christian one.
He lived a very Pagan lifestyle. And if want to stand here now and tell me what is wrong with that. Everything is my answer!
And in regard to Lennon and his lyrics hey you know. I know "Imagine" was a very popular song. But I don't know if the man believe or did'nt believe in God. I think many people wander through life never really knowing until the moment the life is required of them. And then they know for sure who their creator is. Like we will all find out when that happens ok.
I just hope he knew who God was too.
If not shame on him. Its not my soul at stake its his. As for religion and music and artisitc ability you say what do they have in common. your right in some ways very little, But I think religion and some "Gospel Music" does inspire musicians and singers when they play. anyway that's all for today kiddies

(Jak Colton)

How can you make a list of great rock bands and go off of hit records and most sold albums? Just becasue a band pumps outs semi ok songs and has a big following does not mean that band is great because of its record sales. Album Sales does not make a band great in all cases. There our loads of bands with not very many albums out that our great bands.

Hmmm... Monkees vs. Doors... kind of an odd comparison if you ask me. The Monkees were a group of cutie boys who didn't record nor write the songs that ended up on the records. They were wholly manufactured. Michael Nesmith was the only real talent, and this shows by his endurance in the music biz as opposed to Jones, Mickey Dolenz, and Peter Tork.

The Doors wrote their own songs, recorded, were not put together by a record label and challenged many of the parameters of rock music.

In my unhumble view, placing the Monkees over the Doors is a little like placing Brittney Spears over Alanis Morrisette. Of course, everything is a matter of taste, so whatever floats your boat.

In Re: Jak Colton (Comment #92)

Am unsure of your age and experience Jak, but you seem to have some interesting ideas about what defines music. Certainly any artistic venture is subject to the taste of the beholder and if you're into TDN and CCR more power to you. However, don't fool yourself in regards to drug use of each group. John Fogerty struggled with alcoholism for many years, and brother Tom died of a heart attack not long ago because of his drug and alcohol usage. As for TDN, you might want to speak to Jimmy Greenspoon about the bands forays with alcohol, LSD, cocaine and heroin. Ringo Starr can give you an earful about the Beatles as well. If you had toured with a rock band, you'd understand the incredible presssures they're all under and why drug use among bands is so prevelant. This is not to say I either condone nore condemn drug usage. But having been on the road with more than a few well known bands in my time, I know how easy they're used when creative types are dry for ideas.

As to some of the musicians/groups you mentioned, there is certainly a schism between what most people appreciate about the bands you mentioned and what you find lacking. An example is Bob Dylan. Frankly, I've never known anyone who listens to Dylan for either his singing or his guitar work (which is mediocre at best). However, Dylan is a brilliant poet/lyricist, an amazingly gifted writer, and this is what Dylan fans appreciate. They understand his nasally intoned vocals are to be tolerated in order to hear the magic of his writing. A friend put it well once: "Dylans lyrics are on a similar scale with Segovia's skill with classical guitar."

For comments on the Doors, please see my comment on Al Barger's review of the recent box set.

Led Zeppelin certainly is not to everyone's taste. But Led Zeppelin, like the Doors, challenged the boundaries of rock, mixing myriad forms of music into their witches brew of a creation. Jimmy Page was among the first few electric guitarists to understand the mathematical principles of tuning and made his instrument sound like any number of others in the process. His and the groups ability to generate natural effects with their instruments, especially with songs like "Kashmir" (a natural flange on Page's guitar was created by Page's use of a bow with the guitar on eight tracks, and then mixing them at the same level as the backward orchestral violin tracks) made for an incomparable sound. It was a bold experiment that groups like TDN and CCR would've never tried.

As Frak and Evan quite lucidly pointed out, universal appeal does not necessarily mean musical proficiency or talent. I've worked with completely talentless vocalists in the studio and used numerable effects to make their vocalization palatable. Its why so many "singers" still lyp sync. They don't have the chops, yet they're popular and gotta sell records on the road.

There's nothing wrong with your choice of music. And there's nothing wrong with Evan's, Flaks, Al's or mine. Art is perception, and your perceptions may draw you to paintings of dogs playing cards while others may find Picasso's cubism more appealing. But keep in mind that our perceptions are formed by the depth of our experiences, intuition, and emotions. As we mature in the world, our perceptions change, and we may indeed find ourselves liking things we'd have never given a chance to before.

"Evan I don't have to prove anything to you. But there are countless sources that will tell you the same thing and I am not talking tabloid source here either!"

No, you DO have to prove something to me. The onus is on you. You really don't understand here. You're the one alleging he pissed and vomitted on a crowd, you prove it. You say you've got the sources, so what's the problem?

"ok I know that Jimbo Morrison did these despicable acts in public... tell your mother your going to F*** her and that you'd kill your father is acceptable in some song; then I guess anything is ok.)"

I do believe you're missing the ENTIRE point of the song. Think 'Oedipus'.
And just because someone write's something in their lyrics, it doesn't mean they actually do it or believe it.

"So there goes any argument for J. Morrison as being a decent guy or anything in that facsimile."

I never argued that he was a decent guy. I simply asked what that has to do with the music or artistic talent.

"but the reality is he lead a life that was contradictory to what Jesus taught and Morrison existance certainly was'nt a christian one."

Again, this has NOTHING to do with the music. I think you're confusing our debate about music with a religious debate. Calm down, you don't have to convert me.

Larry,

I don't know your age either. Well listen Larry. Its is true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That goes for Music or anything else that can be measured. While you muse about the strengths of Jimmy Page's guitar skills that's fine. He really isn't to my liking but recognize he has talent ok. I'll make this comparion music is like food. You consume what you like. And your right there are experiences through out life that shape and form our opinion as to why we like various artists. ok. You might like Alpo Dog food and I like the Filet Mignon. or vice versa. you., While you grin about Jimmy and things never tried. Listen a Three Leader Singers in a Rock band was never tried till Three Dog Night did it first. And it can be easily argued their is alot of Artistic talent a singer puts their heart and sould into the song even more so than merely writing it or playing a musical instrument along side of it. And your right there are vocalist or singer who have no talent. Three Dog Night would NOT be one of them. All three Singers ok were no slouches. But James Morrison could barely hold a tune. The man was not gifted in the area of vocalization and holding a melody. You have Kreiger in the background doing his thing to cover up Jim's gross mistakes. You don't produced 3 number- 1, and 21 consecutive top 40 hits ok many of which were top 10's, and even more it could have been argued a few of those songs could have easily been more number one's for the groups like at least 2 others- "Shambala" and "Old Fashion Love Song". so your looking at maybe even 5 or 6 number one hits! Which brings to mind Mr. McKito inane comment on singles. Your argument has no weight. TDN to date has turn out 19 Albums! So where are the limited albums that TDN night produced? Well in case you just missed 19 I just answered your question for you. Plus TDN achieve greatestness in the shear depth and quality of their songs and did so consecutively! There were no dry spells as their were with the Groups you just mentioned. How many Albums did the Doors turn out ok. I rest my case. Now Evan is probably getting mad now because Jimmy Boy did'nt last long enough to turn our more bad music and piss on a few more fire hydrants while attending his own concerts. What can I say the guy could'nt find an appropriate place to relieve himself when he needed to.
So McKita without a shred of doubt TDN is a legendary Rock Band they dominated the late sixites and early seventies. I don't care how you want to measure them.
And Larry Sakin please read everything first before you open your mouth. Here's another guy that goes off half cocked. Listen if you read what I said above you'd know that I said TDN had drug problems too ok. You obviously did'nt so keep your mouth shut dummy.
Evan there is no Onus on me over what?
I have to cut and paste everything to see. Listen if you go and do a google search on your idols life. Mr James Morrison; then I think you'll be shocked at what you find about what he did with his life. It really is a sad story and I am not talking about the ad lib stuff Oliver Stone did to the making of the movie the Doors but what really happened. But I am not going to sit here and cut and paste everything his life story for you to compare notes. Its everywhere my friend, and if you can't accept that then your in DENIAL my friend. SO GET A LIFE!!! NOW

Larry one other point if your taking guitarists I will take Eric Clapton over Jimmy Page any day. or Michael Allsup as well from TDN. Once again I doubt you or I would be doing much talking over who was great and who was'nt face to face. But the fact of the matter is TDN is still touring today almost 40 years later and an accomplishment few bands can claim.
As for Jimmy Greenspoon or Joe Schermie both some of the best keyboardists you'll ever find. When it came to drugs yeah i know they were passing them out while deciding what song to record.
However, as a member recently said their still around and still Kicking major Ass.

O.K. I see that Jak colton is just a fool. You call Morrison a degenerate but Your idol is Chuck Negron who was Junky and whose penis exploded because of obsessive sex. You call the Doors a bunch of Atheist with no proff-But you give John Lennon a free pass when it is well know that he was a godless anti-war liberal. You say that Three Dog night was more prolific than the Doors.TDN had just 1 more studio album then the Doors had during their first 5 years. Plus the Doors wrote their own songs..TDN had Huge talents writing their albums for them (Randy Newman, Paul Williams ect..)You obviously have some sort of bias. I agree that Three dog night was a terrific performance band. Though They were absolutely Not the first band to have 3 singers who are able to sing lead. The Beach Boys had 5 singers and were All able to sing lead and had hit songs featuring each of them singing solo at some point. THE BEATLES...All 4 of them had leads too. You really don't know much about music. Just the fact that you try to compare the Doors to Three Dog night is so silly. Compare them to the Bee Gees or some group closer to their style. You say that TDN is more influential then the Doors-But there has hardly been a band who has been "borrowed from" more consistently than the Doors. You say that TDN is still doing tours...Well yes, but not as a group. Ray Manzarek and Robby Krieger are still touring too (On a much grander scale then the members of TDN)

frak, I think he might be a band member.

Frak your just another retard who does'nt bother to read the entire post. And I called Morrison for what he was and will always be remembered historically and viewed by most people. Just a Pure Slob plain and a simple. And Mr Negron who ( I admit was no saint either.) Lead the same kind of life as a drug addict ok.
And He almost bought the farm too.
(I am repeating myself on Negron for your benefit here since you obvious don't know how to read posts! so pay attention)
Although the key distinction other than surviving the druggie lifestyle that both Negron, Morrison, shared along with so many other singers is the simple fact. One survived their addiction the other one did not. Am I saying it to put your hero down no, because I think its ashame that anyone has to pay with their life at an early age like that.
One thing you do have to bear in mind. Is that at least Chuck Negron mentioned he thank God for coming out of being a Heroine Addict. And he has mentioned him several times if you have been to his new website.
Could it be God looked out for him? maybe. I'm not God and I don't know.
But at least even as a Sinner Chuck Negron had the common sense and decency by mentioning God for assisting him to come back in his life. I did not find God mentioned anywhere by James Morrison.

Chuck Negron's drug rehab has gone fairly well. And as far as John Lennon being a Liberal, ant-God, and Anti-War well your opening another can of worms here. He did'nt go around vomiting and pissing on his crowds as far as I know. At least Lennon had some repect for the crowds he performed for many times over.
Then again at that time who was'nt anti-vietnam war ok. If you were young most people were against it.
I served my country in the US Navy how about you did you serve your country?
Anyway, Three Dog Night enlisted the talent of several up and coming song writers that's for sure. But saying that does not take away from the bands musical accomplishments and artistic abilities as a Rock Group ok. If you want to haggle with that your wasting your time ok. When it comes right down to real musical talent and the ability to sing Three Dog Night. Then TDN has is all over the Doors ok. No question and that is how most people view it.
The Doors could'nt sing if their life depended on it ok. If anyone needed to be lip sync it would have been Jimbo Morrison similar to "Milli Vanilli"
No the Beach Boys were'nt all lead singers ok. you had tenures, alto's, and other sing bass ok. The Beatles same thing not all lead singers either ok. Your the one that does'nt know music my friend. Ok you want me to Compare Three Dog Night to the Bee Gees. Hmm let see Well their not the same musical format. Bee Gees were Disco ok. But I think the Bee Gee and Three Dog Night both had one thing in common they both came out with many more albums and hit songs and than the Doors ok. And your right the doors and "Three Dog Night" are not in the same class. The Doors are an Inferior Group and DON"T belong in the same sentence with Three Dog Night or any other Real rock band for that matter.

You asked for this, Name one band that borrowed the style from the Doors?

Your wrong once again. Three Dog Night has regular tours if you have been on the website you know that! and does still do tours as a group. Its probably more intimidating now for you that band is divided and has two strong following for touring with either Three Dog Night or the former lead Chuck Negron. Excellent site as a matter of fact. more so than the Doors could hope for musical talents is out there in two separated forces. Chuck is doing his own thing, and if you looked at his website you can see he is very busy. So is the rest of the Three Dog Night Band Danny Hutton the original founder and Cory Wells.
Ray Manzarek and Robby Krieger might tour but in very limited fashion in comparion ok.
They tremble when they hear Three Dog Night mentioned from the years of total domination over them.