"It is irresponsible assuming no change to the health situation of the mother when it would be justified."

How would the health of the baby be tied to the health of the mother? How could the mother's health be impaced by whether or not the baby was "killed" before the head came out???? It can't, so that is not a valid argument.

"Spend your time and money trying to convince people to practice safe sex and to not have kids when they don't want them. That's the best form of abortion prevention and I don't think there are too many people who wouldn't agree with the sentiment that abortions are ugly things. But, the alternatives are much worse."

We already teach sex education to students starting in the 4th grade, how much more teaching do you think they need. The problem isn't that they don't have enough education, the problem is that our society has accepted the practice, single mothers are revered, the "have sex with anyone you want" culture is glorified by the crap you see on TV and in the movies. That is the problem. The government has replaced fathers in that type of culture. Who needs a dad to work and support their family when the government can do instead? What happened to taking responsibility for your actions????

"Banning a safe, clean alternative to having a baby is almost like promoting an unsafe home remedy of one variety or another."

What is wrong with having the baby and then giving it up for adoption? They are having it anyway. We even have laws that allow women to drop off babies at a hospital with no questions asked. Why do they have to kill the baby????

"Do whatever you can to avoid needing abortion as an option for your own life. I will do the same, but don't take the option away from the whole society."

What exactly do you think is being taken away from society? This ban is for partial birth abortions, women can still "kill their babies", they just need to make a "decision" and do it.

There is nothing being taken away from society, instead of scrambling the baby's brains right before the head emerges, let it be born, if it lives then it can be put up for adoption. There are lots of loving couples that would love to adopt, people that are on waiting lists that last for years. Why does the baby "have" to die????

"How would the health of the baby be tied to the health of the mother?"

Isn't the health of the mother directly tied to the baby? It is living inside her body. I don't understand what you are saying.

"What is wrong with having the baby and then giving it up for adoption? They are having it anyway."

I don't have a problem with it. I would prefer it to be quite honest. I don't believe I should be able to tell someone else what to do in this scenario.

"There are lots of loving couples that would love to adopt, people that are on waiting lists that last for years. Why does the baby "have" to die?"

Again, I agree with you. This would be nice, but with all due respect, who do you think you are? Just because someone is on a waiting list for a baby doesn't give them any rights to say what someone else should do. Wanting to adopt a baby doesn't give you a right. It also doesn't give society the right to determine supply of babies for adoption from an unwilling supplier.

What I am saying is that, for a partial birth abortion, the baby is made to be a breach birth, then right before the head comes out it is killed, then it is pulled out.

If this baby is born alive how does this affect the mother's health? How is it better for the mother's health for it to be born dead? She is giving birth to it anyway....

What is wrong with making the decision to abort within the first 3 months???? Why wait until the 6th or 7th month and then decide to kill it.

I only pointed out the adoption issue because you seemed to think that the only alternative was to raise an unwanted baby in a horrible environment....that is not the only alternative.

Hey Debbie I think we agree on some of these things and specifically, I think we have similar values on what we WANT to happen. I think the whole thing is ugly and I wish I lived in a world where it didn't exist.

For me though, not telling people what to do is higher on my priority scale.

"For me though, not telling people what to do is higher on my priority scale."

I don't know that I "buy" that, it's kind of funny that the people that "say exactly that when it comes to killing babies" are the ones that want to "make SUV's illegal".....

Just depends on what you think is worth fighting for.....

Fair enough, but you won't see me fighting to make SUV's illegal anytime soon. I am the guy who thinks the smoking bans are an example of the governement overstepping their boundaries, but that is a whole other conversation! :-)