A couple of points, and I'll try to stick to facts, since opinion on what is/isn't punk or new wave is totally a function of hindsight. Trust me, I was there, and we had no fucking idea what we were doing.

The reason there's no Sex Pistols is because they wouldn't license any material to Rhino.

Nick Lowe was the house producer for Stiff Records so that is why he's included, because you can't do a punk box set if it ain't Stiff, it ain't worth a fuck.

Joy Division are there because if you look at the context of the surrounding tracks, it makes sense, also they were the foundation of Factory Records (the movie 24 Hour Party People explains the connection well).

One approach is to look at record labels to define the genre rather than hairstyles or subsequent success or failure. After all, the set includes Generation X which gave us Billy Idol.

As Great Plains said in their song "Letter To A Fanzine":
Why do punk rock guys go out with new wave girls?
She likes things on 4AD / He likes things on SST
I like things I get in the mail for free

I was there, too. To me the NYC scene was about the Ramones, Blondie, Suicide, Patti Smith, Richard Hell & The Voidoids, Heartbreakers, Cramps, Dead Boys, Television.
We thought we knew what we were doing but the press kept confusing the issues and the public with their interpretations of what was happening. Punk was a reaction to the bastardization of rock 'n roll by the record companies and producers of the late '60s, when Wall Street moved in and the MBA's offered up their marketing strategies. Punk was a return to teen rock and new wave was the acceptable name of it. Thanks Seymour Stein. I have no complaint with this Box Set because I have a bunch of songs on it but it could've been slightly different and less power pop. Still, if you can afford it, it's a keeper.

Wait a minute. Blink 182 isn't punk? Next thing you are going to tell me is that No Doubt isn't a ska band. Yeah right. :-)

Putting together a compilation of material from about a quarter century ago is really hard work. You have to secure the licences for the tracks, which in many cases, nobody knows who owns, or are in dispute.

Then you have to find an acceptable master copy.

Of course Rhino are the experts on this. However, if I was to add one track on this box set, it would be "New York City" by The Demics. This period was one of the last gasps of regional music and labels, so that would have been one approach to take.

i would have picked "Caught With The Meat In Your Mouth" by the Dead Boys instead of "Sonic Reducer"...but that's a small nitpick, really.

it's a pretty broad definition of "punk" but a pretty great collection, too. I have very little problem with the groups selected, although there are a lot of songs I would have selected in place of the ones used, but this could be licensing issues as well. I don't think of the Cure or Joy Division as punk, but both began that way. "Boys Don't Cry" is from the Cure's early "punky" period, though "Love Will Tear us Apart" is later JD and doesn't really fit.

And yes, there was most assuredly "new wave" and it was someting apart from "punk," which is a different ethos, sound, approach. Punk pretty much excludes electronics, other than perhaps Suicide, who were art punks with keyboards.

This collection edges into pub-rock, which was another neo-simplicity movement but without the iconoclastic anger - Lowe, Costello, Graham Parker, Joe Strummer, most of Stiff came out of this direction.

I don't even know what Punk is. It was dead and buried long before I started listening to music. According to those who do know punk, is there a single band out there today, or within the last decade who you would consider a real live punk band?

Even if you can name them, I probably never heard of them.

According to the copy of "Best of New Wave Rock" music book published by Warner Brothers (VF0636) sheet music, The Dead Boys song is "Sonic Reducer".

The book also includes sheet music for The Ramones, Richard Hell & The Voidoids, Sex Pistols, Rezillos, Flamin' Groovies, Blondie, Patti Smith, Tuff Darts, and more. There's something rather satisfying about seeing sheet music for The Ramones.

What I would really like to get ahold of are some K-Tel "best of new wave rock" comps.

sure, punk is larger and broader now than ever - there is street punk, pop punk, party punk, commie punk (political punk), and hardcore/punk hybrids. If they think it's punk, it's punk. Blink 182 is punk, but has very little to do with Sex Pistols and Black Flag, but not unlike a fair amount of Ramones and Buzzcocks.

Eric, you left out the genre of lucky punk, the main propent is the band Callahan with their single, "Well, Do You?"

Keeping in mind *at all times*, that humans would have never existed if not for plants and that the human brain runs according to the shifting of ions (primarily) *I* personally would have to believe that asking the question "What is Punk?" would be, ahem like, the stupidest question ever (/echo/ ever ever ever)

Now. Bands that use guitar pedals or talk about "life on the streets" are not necessarily punk. Is drinking beers and smelling bad punk? Is pushing people around and acting like an ass punk? Are you a punk, or just a copy cat? Did you start to think that punk was about Heroin or some dumb girl in Cali that everyone has slept with, who writes songs about wanting to OD so much that she becomes an epileptic?

Confused, yet? I thought so. What about early Jazz musicians? Were they punks, or just sell-outs? What is a sell out? Ever seen a music video? Beaudrillard? Gleick? Ellison? The Matrix? Do you think this is Fight Club? What are "lowercases" what are "capitol-ol-ols"?

Theory: if you believe in "DIY" and you can't "Figure it out" and think you should be "RTFM" then become a thought and once you're a thought hopefully I've forgotten you.

I doubt it.

rancid and nofx kick ass

No Thanks! is a first-class collection that has done nothing but entertain and enlighten me for every single day of the past month. All the "But is this or that song really punk/New wave?" discussions have become meaningless -- even if it's borderline it's great to have it all in one box. Should it have included Patti Smith's "Land" rather than "Free Money"? Sure. Should it have included "Marquee Moon" over "See No Evil"? No doubt. But so frigging what. There is not a single bad song on it -- not a single one that isn't electric, bracing, alive; well, "Heart of the City" is kinda lame, but that's it. I'll let the purists fight this one out among themselves; I love the damned thing.

Hey I'll tell you what punk music is: Punk Music n. Any music that's absurdly easy to play on guitar with a really really really fast drum beat. Usually contains four or fewer chords and sub-par vocals.