Blogcritics Comments on Not There Yet

Comment by o%3BT%5CHAy%3FeF on Not There Yet

Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:31:06 EST

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Comment by Eric Olsen on Not There Yet

Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:12:37 EDT

Excellent Michael, thanks, and thanks to Alex Halderman for the reply. I should point out that the media has latched onto the "defeated by using the shift key" angle. That is pretty funny.

Comment by Michael Croft on Not There Yet

Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:43:20 EDT

Alex Halderman replied as follows. FWIW, everything I've heard about the so-called "Princeton Mafia" of computer security researchers say they're top-notch academics and generally get it right.

1: What is the quality of the compressed, encrypted WMA files? Would either an average listener or an audiophile be able to hear the difference?
I haven't listened to the files (I can't without accepting the EULA) and I'm not sure what the bitrate is, but because they're compressed they must be worse than raw CD audio. At the least I'm sure audiophiles would find fault.
2: Is it reasonable to object to a closed, encrypted standard for archival purposes?
That's probably a reasonable objection. Normal audio CDs are likely to outlive the licensing infrastructure SunnComm uses.
3: At some point, copyright expires. Are these license restrictions still applicable?
At least in theory they expire, barring repeated term extensions by congress. I don't think the technology makes any provisions for this.
4: What were your experiences testing this on a Macintosh?
I only tested on one flat panel iMac, and I couldn't get MediaMax to protect the CD at all on that system. I'm not sure if this is an isolated anomaly, so I don't want to say anything more specific about Macs for the time being.
5: One of the complaints I have seen is that some car stereos use computer CD mechanisms and some protection schemes causes failures on these units. Did you observe any problems with this CD?
The way MediaMax works, the CD shouldn't cause any problems on non-Windows, non-Mac players, including car stereos. They can't run the MediaMax software, so they see the disc as a perfectly normal CD.
6: If you do not have WMP installed, is it possible to play the CD on a computer, either Mac or PC?
Not using SunnComm's software. You'd need to bypass the protections in that case.
7: Does the driver-level patch on OS X interfere with applications like Wiretap?
I don't know.
8: One reason this model works is the degradation in quality suffered by even first generation D/A A/D conversions. The rationale is that consumers will not accept the quality of a recording that has been captured from a playback source. However, the cost of digital audio is coming down and some computers (such as the Apple G5s) are starting to include it as a feature. Will the ability to capture digital content in a lossless or low-loss digital format work to defeat the protections offered by these technologies?
Quality is lost in two places -- D/A A/D conversions and decompression/recompression. I'm not sure if SunnComm's playback system allows digital audio out, but even if it does, the sound source will be compressed WMA files rather than raw CD audio. Recompressing this into unencrypted audio files will decrease the sound quality further.

Comment by Eric Olsen on Not There Yet

Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:50:25 EDT

I look very much forward to hearing what you find out Michael - thanks.

Comment by Michael Croft on Not There Yet

Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:31:51 EDT

Fascinating article. The author thanks Ed Felton, who is an academic with something of a rocky history with audio copy protection. I believe Felton had a paper on the subject that got him into DMCA trouble. I wrote the author of this paper a few questions. I'll respond to this if he gets back to me...

What is the quality of the compressed, encrypted WMA files? Would either an average listener or an audiophile be able to hear the difference?
Is it reasonable to object to a closed, encrypted standard for archival purposes?
At some point, copyright expires. Are these license restrictions still applicable?
What were your experiences testing this on a Macintosh?
One of the complaints I have seen is that some car stereos use computer CD mechanisms and some protection schemes causes failures on these units. Did you observe any problems with this CD?
If you do not have WMP installed, is it possible to play the CD on a computer, either Mac or PC?
Does the driver-level patch on OS X interfere with applications like Wiretap? http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/freebies/
One reason this model works is the degradation in quality suffered by even first generation D/A A/D conversions. The rationale is that consumers will not accept the quality of a recording that has been captured from a playback source. However, the cost of digital audio is coming down and some computers (such as the Apple G5s) are starting to include it as a feature. Will the ability to capture digital content in a lossless or low-loss digital format work to defeat the protections offered by these technologies?